The Fanboy/girl Rant: Prove Me Wrong by HiroStone

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

The Fanboy/girl Rant: Prove Me Wrong

POSTED BY: HIROSTONE
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 04:43
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5920
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Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:45 AM

Okay, today was kinda busy at work, but now I got some time in the afternoon to jot down some thoughts.

Someone the other day asked me why am I so passionate about sci-fi. After beating him into submission with my can of Jolt cola, it got me to thinking about his question.

Now, I don’t want to go off on a rant here… but I suppose I’m into sci-fi because I’ve been reading, watching or playing with sci-fi things since I was a wee babe. I mean, a year after I was born, Star Wars was released. It must be destiny. Then again, it probably has to do with the camaraderie that fans have with one another. One can walk into a convention, like say the Dreamcon that will be in Jacksonville, FL in June (shameless plug), and see the ocean of other fans, the dealer booths, the displays, the writers, the artist, the special guests and get lost just walking around aimlessly in a fanboy/girl haze, knowing they’re not the only ones into what they’re into, a feeling like they belong.

The same thing can be said about sports fan. Growing up in the South, everyone in my city lived and died by football. Cities and communities go into uproar and clamor to support their football, basketball, baseball, hockey team, whether it be pro, college, high school, or even peewee leagues. Sport fans buy jerseys, caps, jackets, flags, etc., many cable channels and television shows are dedicated to the presentation, analyzing and debate of sports, they dress in team paraphernalia for games, paint their faces or bodies, and even form small communities, the tailgate get-togethers, for their sports teams. All this is considered All-American Pastime. Still, why is this considered normal, and then the sci-fi fans are considered the outcasts?

Maybe it’s all about universal appeal. Sports are really black and white. Win, lose or draw is practically any outcome and everyone can understand. However, with sci-fi, there are things the general public can’t understand. Why? Because it’s more intellectual. With sports, it’s all very cut and dry for the most part; score or stop them from scoring. And whatever was arbitrary, there was a referee to sort it all out. But with sci-fi, it’s more about gray area. Sci-fi is looking internally at human nature, an allegory for issues dealing with a myriad of everyday or controversial subjects. With this, we, as in all people, have to sort it out for ourselves.

What I’m saying is that even though some people that don’t get us be the passionate fans that we are, trying like hell to get Firefly made into a movie, they would ultimately comprehend why we are so passionate with things like Star Wars, Star Trek, Firefly, Angel, Buffy, etc. Like when the city of Cleveland banded together to bring back the Browns, us Browncoats want to bring back our Firefly. And we do dress in costumes for conventions. Or buy role-playing cards, books, and collectables as well, but then again it’s not so different than sport fans doing the same at the game. I guess I can be proven wrong here, but it's really just two sides of the same coin.

I guess the point I’m getting at is just one of unity. I jumped to be part of a Shindig when it was put together in my town. Strangers I had never met before in my life, coming together just to watch Firefly, make t-shirts, have dinner and talk about sci-fi in general. Coincidentally, it was put together the weekend of the Super Bowl. I could’ve cared less about that, but even through I was sick as a dog the day before, I still went to the Shindig because it was a chance to meet some people with similar interests. It’s just like sport fans that meet at the game, who had never met before, but cheer for their team becoming fast friends in an instant.

That’s what being a fan is all about, I think. But if people still don’t get sci-fi, just remind them that sci-fi can become science fact. Just think that just a little over a hundred years ago, a lot of our modern conveniences we take for granted and historical events were just science fiction as in faxes, airplanes, television, VCRs, DVDs, video cameras, mobile phones, modern medicine, personal computers, PDA’s, microwaves ovens, space travel, GPS, the internet, radio, even cable and digital satellite television, where they watch their precious sports channels. And where did all those come from? A flight of fantasy story written in a book.

SIMON
Captain... why did you come back for us?

MAL
You're on my crew.

SIMON
Yeah, but you don't even like me.
(beat)
Why'd you come back?

MAL
You're on my crew. Why we still talking about this?

-Hiro

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:39 AM

BLACKEYEDGIRL

Rant on! You're the hero of Fandom (not Canton, that's Jayne's town!).

I'm with you on that. I grew up in a Sci-fi condusive home, thus I think I could probably blame my parents for turning me into a social leper. But in reality I wouldn't have it any other way. I find that people who survive on the fringes generally don't do so alone, that's the theme of Sci-fi. Yeah I could give a juggled gosling about Tom Cruise's next movie, unless of course there are giant robots, or spaceships manned by giant robots. But tell me that they're making an Underworld sequel and I'm there, once again, doubly there if there are giant spaceship maning robots.

Sci-fi doesn't appeal to the masses for one reason, it's not about them. Sci-fi, horror, thrillers, fantasy, it's all stories about people who are alone, or on the outskirts, or who everyone thinks are crazy. Think about it: Buffy: group of teenagers who are really the only people in town who know that monsters exist, Firefly: a bunch of veritable misfits survive on a ship on the outskirts of civilization trying to avoid the law and be free, Roswell: these 3 teens are aliens (no not just alienated teenagers, actual aliens), X-Files: something's amuck and there are two people who have to discover the truth while trusting no one, Dark Angel: So there's this genetically modified future soldier girl who is trying to take down the government instiution that made her while trying to find who she really is, The LOTR Trilogy: a small group of individuals has to save the world from evil, because basically they are the only ones who can. It's usually stories of people on the outside looking in, and in the end realizing, they don't want to be in, they are happy where they are.

Suzy Popular just can't relate to feeling like an alien, or like she's the only person who sees the truth. The entire genre is about acceptance, creating a family out of nothing, and self-discovery. I still joke that I am going to write a book called: Everything I Needed to Know About Life, I Learned from Joss Whedon.

I went to my first Buffy Convo last year, and it was refreshing. Now I live in Gen-Con's hometown (Milwaukee), but that's a wide variety of different folks, this was just Buffy. It was awesome to just sit down with anyone and discuss whether or not Willow's self esteem issues were really at the base of her turning evil, or if it was just plain grief. These people are smart, and interesting, and funny. I have male friends who think it's cool that I am familiar with comic books and graphic novels, that I'm willing to stand in line for Star Wars or LOTR tickets. I even have a friend who refers to me as the Scully to his Mulder. But the other girls? Now that's where it gets trickier. See it's not cool or fashionable to be into collectible trading cards. Action figures are strongly frowned upon. But there are a few of us geek-girls out there and there is no better place than a Buffy convo to find us, seriously, I never felt so awesome as I did there.

But see there's this dirty little secret. There are more of us Fan-boys and Fan-girls out there than we realize. I was friends with a girl for 5 years before I learned she was a Joss-aholic. And even then I only found out because she was considering naming her daughter Veruca or Cordelia, and 10,000 lightbulbs went off. I was then sown to the Action Figure collection room. Now we have big plans for a view-athon which will involve very little sleep and very much caffiene. She calls me for updates on the Joss-verse. I even got her and her husband hooked on Firefly (them and everyone else I know).

I love my strange group of Sci-fi die hards. We are goths, and ex-ravers, punk rockers (ever seen a punk rocker cry when buffy dies? it's heart warming), and basement dewlling geeks, gay, straight, white, brown, black and every shade in between, but Normal? Well who wants to be normal?

Keep on Ranting!

Angelus: Passion. It lies in all of us. Sleeping.. waiting... And though unwanted... unbidden... it will stir... open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us... guides us... Passion rules us all. And we obey. What other choice do we have? Passion is the source of our finest moments. The joy of love... the clarity of hatred... and the ecstasy of grief. It hurts sometimes more than we can bear. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank... Without passion, we'd be truly dead.

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:48 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

My mother has the the Enterprise-A in her entryway. My dad isn't big on sci-fi, but he knows what a Klingon is. They were both alive before the moon landing and considered that science fiction.

I've been immersed in science-fiction and fantasy from day one. I can't imagine being without it, and I have a hard time relating to those who weren't even remotely exposed to it, or refuse to acknowledge it.

How can you not allow your mind to expand beyond what is to what could be?

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 1:13 PM

CIARA

I'm on board with Chan...my Father brought me into Sci-fi early on--I remember watching Dr. Who and Star Trek when I was a wee tot--those are some of my earliest TV memories.

The people who say they can't get into Sci-fi and fantasy because it's just not real truly baffle me. My friend only reads biographies and mysteries..because, to him, that is reality whereas scifi/fantasy are NOT---I can't understand the inability to suspend your belief and just IMAGINE....just be in the world and let it take you away....ahhhhh I'm gonna go read a good scifi book now :)

Just a humble supplicant in service to all things Joss

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 1:35 PM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by Ciara:
ahhhhh I'm gonna go read a good scifi book now :)

If you like short stories, I heartily recommend Ted Chiang's collection, "Stories of Your Life and Others":

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0765304198/qid=107723388
6//ref=pd_ka_1/102-1647912-0967333?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 1:53 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I just love watching Science Fiction become science fact.

The DS1 and DS2 projects used an Ion Engine in every general respect the same as the Impulse engine from Star Trek.

Can warp drive be so far behind ?

-frem
diefuxdie

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 2:31 PM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

"Don't Forget Your Spacesuit, Dear"

Now THERE's an anthology worth holding on to.

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:08 PM

TEELABROWN

I read/watch/etc to sci-fi because I am, well, into science. I can't STAND fantasy, and it annoys me when people put those two together.

I like good stories, and the science is an added bonus. I just like it.

_____________
"Freedom is the Freedom to say that 2+2 makes 4. If that is granted, all else follws"-Winston, 1984
Teela Brown, keeper of bad typing.
"No one reads these things any way."- Bart on Blackboard

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:22 PM

KALATHENA

Nice, essay, Hirostone. My husband has posed the EXACT same questions many times when he has spoken on panels at conventions. Why does a passion for one thing make you an "All American Boy" and the other make you an "Anti-social nerd"?

Its not that we don't tolerate fanaticism. It's that we only tolerate fanaticism for that which is socially acceptable.

--Kala

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:33 PM

CIARA

whoa--sorry Teela :)

Scifi and fantasy just go together for ME--I can totally understand them not meshing for others ;) I love them both equally

Just a humble supplicant in service to all things Joss

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:37 PM

HIROSTONE

I wanted to add this:

Science-fiction & fantasy shows us, as human beings, our potential. Who we are, what we can be, what we will be, or what we would or should be. It gives us a chance to take a good look at ourselves from a perspective that is different, but plausable. The "what if's" are what makes us make faster, better cars and planes; to find a cure for deseases; to change the world for the better. It is real in so many ways. As it gives insight on the individual or the group, families or friends. In springs eternal the imagination of the mind that is always questioning, always searching, always contemplating 'Why?'.

Also, the bond that forms between strangers with sports can also form with strangers. It's how I've made some of my best friends. "Did you see that Buffy when?", "How'd you like that Star Trek episode last week?", etc.; just like when sport fans talk about 'the game' last weekend.

And we are not 'anti-social' people, we just don't like stupid people!!! Like, say... TV Execs... who work at FOX!!!!

Gollum... Gollum... We Hates them!!!!

"The hero of Fandom...
The man they call.... Meeeeee!!!!"

-Hiro

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:38 PM

HIROSTONE

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:44 PM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

Depends on the fantasy. Robin of Sherwood - yes, definitely, anytime, any place. It has the advantage of being based on my childhood hero.

Cleopatra 2525? Fuhgetaboutit.

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:44 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Wash " But isn't that like... science ficton "

Zoe " We live on a spaceship dear "

Wash " Yeah, so ? "

" Thats not fair !!!!
I didn't even have a soul when I did that!"

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Thursday, February 19, 2004 6:13 PM

HIROSTONE

I miss Gina, Victoria and Jennifer as Hal, Sarge and Cleo on Cleopatra 2525. Plus Bruce "Ash" Campbell on Jack of All Trades. Those were some kick-ass shows.

I miss the whole Action Pack.

And I think that fantasy is sci-fi's other half. Where would we be without the machine from the Gods?

-Hiro

"Hail to the king, baby..."
- Ash in Army of Darkness

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Friday, February 20, 2004 1:05 AM

Lots of good and interesting points here.

I think the comparison with sports is slightly misleading, though. There is the intellectual difference, yes, but sports provides an immediacy and proximity that you don't necessarily get with any fiction. It is more to do with the creative process than the end product, in that it is not pre-destined. Reading the sports results is an example of the end product, if you like, and inevitably less stimulating or rewarding than any fiction (even a sports fan is likely to agree there!). Also, there's the element of competitiveness, which, although tribal, is a powerful influence ("The opium of the masses"). It has been said the sports support can be used as a method of controlling a population - create (largely) non-violent factions who focus their aggressive, competitive instincts against one another, and not against a ruling body - but this is moving back into politics, so, moving swiftly on.

Also, sports at grass roots level involves people the community knows, and because the "creative" (using the term loosely) process is more explosive and dynamic than the creation of sci-fi, it will attract more attention.

For pure fandom, of course, there is little difference really. Maybe the sports fans have that rivalry thing kicking in again, just on a larger scale, and think that the activity of 'watching' something is sedentary, and therefore dull in comparison to their 'dynamic' sport, despite these same people for the most part just 'watching' their chosen team. They will argue that anyone can participate, but then that's true of anything, right? Hmm, okay, I'm forgetting exactly where I was going with this, so I'm just going to cut this short now....

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Friday, February 20, 2004 3:21 AM

HIROSTONE

I think what my point was getting at was that sports is more widely accepted as 'Normal' as Sci-fi is more 'Geek'. While we have the Sci-Fi channel, there are several sports channels in comparison. As there are racks full of any kind of sports available, there are also racks of books, comics, etc.

Also, I was getting at the predictability of sports. It has gotten so predictable lately, the prospect of a ninth inning rally or a fourth quarter comeback is rare. Sci-fi can offer those twists and turns and unpredictablity.

There are also those kind of sports with little or no contact. Some of them are not as popular to have franchise teams, but are watched. Baseball and golf being more of non-contact sports for the most part.

Well, just thought I'd add on.

INARA
Who's winning?

SIMON
I can't tell. They don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.

INARA
Well, we're pretty far from civilization.

-Hiro

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Friday, February 20, 2004 4:30 AM

THALOS

One thing that has not been touched upon is that alot of people can relate to sports. Growing up who did not play T-Ball or Soccer? I think that the larger market appeal of Sports is related to the fact that a viewer can visualize themselves or more accuratly remember the time they won the big game. Menawhile, a fewer amount of kids travel in space or see Vampires.

Also, I must disagree about predictablity. As much as I love Firefly, I pretty much know that no matter what happens in an episode Malcolm and crew are going to come out of it OK. But if you take any given game of any given sport you cannot be sure who is going to win. Example, the Yankees it is a safe assumption that they will win the game and yet that is only 60-70% of the time. And from watching the playoffs last year there was a ton of suspense.

However, I completley agree that the fanaticism (is that a word) of the 2 are comparable. And surprisingly I think that the actual numbers of "geeks" are increasing and so is public perception. Remember when working on the computer all day was considered nerdy, and now it is the hip thing to do (can we thank Bill Gates for this???)

Anyhow, I just felt like you were short changing the sports fan intelligence in your generalization, especially since there are lots of folks like me who like sci-fi and sports.

Otherwise, I agree with all your points about the unfair perception of Sci-fi & Fantasy fans, and here's hoping to see you in Indy for GenCon this year.

"Whoa, good Bible."

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Friday, February 20, 2004 4:57 AM

DRAKON

For me its something different.

Look, Westerns, you always know who the bad guys are, who the good guys are, the plots are predictable, and really none of it matters.

Same with detective stories, police dramas etc.

But sci fi, real sci fi, you never know. One day you may be talking to the green women dancing around in skimpy clothing, the next minute, an old war buddy is on the run from organ smugglers. Its always weird, new, different and unexpected.

But also, I plan on spending the rest of my life in the future. So I would kind of like to know what to expect. New technologies are going to change the world, but for the better, or worse, or both, that is unknown. The best science fiction to me takes a possible future technology and explores all the ramification of it, how it will play out.

This kind of off line simulation is a good thing.

Then you get stuff like The Matrix. Is what you see real or Memorex? Some sci fi deals with heavy philosophy stuff, which I find fasinating.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Friday, February 20, 2004 5:09 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Great rant Hiro.

There have been good points made by all, and I wanted to add my own little bit to the thread.

I can not remember a time when I did not watch or read sci fi. Some of my earliest memories are of watching the original Star Trek w/ my mother. Then there was the Star Trek cartoon on Saturday mornings (Boy am I dating myself there).

It was always something; Battlestar Galactica, Planet of the Apes, Starblazers, Robotech, Voltorn, Battle of the Planets, Godzilla, you name it. If it was sci fi, it had my interest. The first books I remember reading were sci fi. Of course fantasy got my attention as well, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings series were read by the time I was in fourth grade.

My father never understood the whole sci fi thing, and kind of frowned on it, but my mother liked some of it and would watch with me. I remember her taking me to see Star Wars at the movies the first time (yes, it was a drive in movie in 1977). I collected the toys, comics, books, you name it.

I have always liked sci fi and fantasy. Some of what Hiro said is what got me into the genre; realizing human potential. We all like to think that mankind is meant for greater things than the petty political and racial obstacles we have set for ourselves today. We all like to think that we will one day realize there is only one race, the human race, and that we will join together to take mankind into the stars and realize our true potential.

In fantasy and sci fi books, man is master of his own destiny, and no matter the odds, if he (or she) is determined, and has the fortitude, they can persevere.

I have never really cared that being into sci fi meant the mainstream kids throughout my school years would think of me as odd and that it may keep me out of some things. I did notice that I was more creative and tended to excel in art, music, literature and science.

I have always had a small, tight knit group of friends, and that is just fine with me. We all like sci fi and share similar tastes in books, movies, past times, etc.

I know that most people do not really understand sci fi or fantasy if they are not interested in it, and it seems to be human nature to make fun of or shy away from things they do not understand. I am only to happy to talk about sci fi w/ someone if they are interested, if not, oh well.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Friday, February 20, 2004 5:36 AM

KNIBBLET

What the 'normals' don't understand is that science fiction isn't about people with turtles pasted to their foreheads. It isn't about green men crawling out of toilets and into your intestines. It isn't about Vampires or werewolves or mummies.

Science fiction, good science fiction, is about the same things that every other genre of fiction is about.

It is about humans, the human condition, human compulsions, human behaviour, humanity.

Strip away the turtles, fangs, morphing eyes and all the rest and you have people. The Gorn wasn't really a green alien bashing Kirk with a rock. He was a person protecting his people whilst bashing Kirk with a rock.

Spock was a person surrounded by foreigners who didn't quite understand him and he didn't quite understand them. They learned to get along and rely on one another.

Buffy is about learning to trust your own strength and to grow stronger with the help of your friends. It's about learning to live and grow... whilst bashing Kirk with a rock. :)

Normals can't see past the surface images. They're uncomfortable with change and uneasy around the dark shadows (not those Dark Shadows, silly... although they scare the heck outta me) and don't even want to deal with things that might make them think.

I'm a sports fan and, being frugal, am a ticket-slut and will sing the anthem at almost any event just to get in free. I say 'almost' any event because I hate basketball. Basketball isn't a sport, it's freakishly tall men in long shorts, running.

I do enjoy sports; however, I'd dump just about any game to meet with other SciFi fans and discuss ideas or to roam about a dealer room with a huge limit on my credit card.

When I wear my Klingon hockey sweater (signed by Michael Dorn) to Wild games, most people pay it no attention in hockey-saturated Minnesota. However, every now and again someone will recognize the symbol and give me a huge grin.

At a concession stand one night, the kid on the other side of the counter asked if I wanted goch (sp). I told him, "only if it's live". He responded, "yes, it's best served live." Other people took a step away. lol

We're everywhere and we're the ones having the best laugh.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Friday, February 20, 2004 1:55 PM

BLACKEYEDGIRL

Okay all, I'm in Wisconsin. I am a Packers fan. What does this mean here? This means for 16 weeks, Churches actually shift their masses so as to not interfere with a Sunday afternoon game. Some of our movie theaters project the game onto their screens, because none of us have a screen that big, and bigger is better when it comes to football. It is not strange to see people crying when we lose. I had a professor move a winter final because he knew there was a game Sunday night and no one was going to study for a Monday test. Going to Lambeau field is a pilgrimage we are all expected to make, and there is no shame in wearing a 1996 Super Bowl Champions Tee-Shirt that looks it's age.

Why do I mention this? Well to me, Sci-fi fannage is a lot like being a Packers fan. Let me explain. There are Packers fans in all 50 states and even some foreign countries. I've been in kentucky, and when the cashier saw my ID (I was buying booze) and saw where I was from, he started asking me about whether or not Brett was going to retire this year, and how did I feel about losing one of our linebackers. He was a fan, in KY! It happens if I sport a shirt in another state, heck my best friend's family in Indiana send me money to buy them championship shirts every year. Now I also have the Sci-Fi shirts. I wore a Buffy one to my local gas station where I buy coffee every morning. The girl behind the counter I had known for at least a year looked at it, looked at me, and I said 'You're a Buffy fan?' and she said 'You're not wrong.' I nearly fell through the floor.

We are like sports fans in the sense that if you meet someone else who is into a show, or book series, or comic book series, or movie series that you are a hard-core fan about, you've got instant camraderie. It's like instant friends, just add Sci-Fi. Now I doubt that we will ever poar beer over each other and do the chicken dance whislt celebrating a most excellent mission completion, but other than that we're really not all that different.

And Now that we have the internet we can all find each other much easier. We can fan-wank all we want and none of our friends will roll their eyes in that 'shut up and get out more' way that they tend to (or is this just me?).

But there is a BIG difference between us and Sports fans. Three words: Pop Culture Studies. One can write 'Thus Sprach Faith, the problem of a happy rogue vampire slayer' and get it published in a philosophy journal, and a pop culture journal and a book. There are anthologies of books about the philosophy, the sociological issues, hell the anthropology of Buffy, X-Files, Star Trek, the matrix, ect.. I know a girl who's research for her PHD in Cultural Anthropology was a study of the social caste system of Sci-Fi fan conventions. She actually got grant money to go to sci-fi conventions. She actually got a PhD for this, I kid you not. Another got a PhD for writing a paper on the sexual revolution in Sci-Fi, how girls kick ass. You can't get a degree in sport's fan. You can get a degree in cultural studies. You can talk about the Nhilistic value of Angel's self-image before Buffy or the psychological problems shown by being the normal person in a group of people with super powers. There is social commentary and incredible societal metaphor in Sci-Fi and that's where it really grabs you. Casual fans don't get that sucked in, but as someone who actually has written a paper called 'Crown Yourself the Ice Queen: Reverse Domestic Abuse and Buffy's Sixth Season' I can say, I've gone beyond casual fan. but I also have an education level that far superceeds the average football fan or the average sci-fi fan so it's an almost natural progression to over analyze and htink too deeply about a TV show. Then again I'm also a bit OCD so that could explain it. Hmm

The Hero of fandom.. The man they call... Hiro?

I go online sometimes, but ... everyone's spelling is really bad, and it's ... depressing.

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Friday, February 20, 2004 2:13 PM

HIROSTONE

Quote:
Originally posted by BlackEyedGirl:

The Hero of fandom.. The man they call... Hiro?

I go online sometimes, but ... everyone's spelling is really bad, and it's ... depressing.

Hiro Stone, as in Yoshihiro Stone. It's not spelling, it's a name, chica.

The hero of fandom...

-Me!

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Friday, February 20, 2004 3:17 PM

HIROSTONE

Quote:
Originally posted by Thalos:
One thing that has not been touched upon is that alot of people can relate to sports. Growing up who did not play T-Ball or Soccer? I think that the larger market appeal of Sports is related to the fact that a viewer can visualize themselves or more accuratly remember the time they won the big game. Menawhile, a fewer amount of kids travel in space or see Vampires.

Also, I must disagree about predictablity. As much as I love Firefly, I pretty much know that no matter what happens in an episode Malcolm and crew are going to come out of it OK. But if you take any given game of any given sport you cannot be sure who is going to win. Example, the Yankees it is a safe assumption that they will win the game and yet that is only 60-70% of the time. And from watching the playoffs last year there was a ton of suspense.

"Whoa, good Bible."

What about kids that want to be Superman or Batman? Who visualize being a Jedi Master. Just a thought.

I wasn't belittling the intelligence sport fans. It's a fantastic way to learn about stratagy, psychology, logic, statistics, tactics. Just growing up in the South, sports was all consuming: you were either a Seminole or a Gator or you weren't human.

But with Joss' writings, there is that gray area where you just don't know if he goes right or left or make a complete u-turn.

Jayne: "What'd ya'll order a dead guy for?"

-Hiro

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Friday, February 20, 2004 3:27 PM

TEELABROWN

No problemo, Ciara.

Quote:
Why does a passion for one thing make you an "All American Boy" and the other make you an "Anti-social nerd"?

*Note: These are my views, and what I observe. These may offend some people, and interest others.*

I don't know. I guess "All American Boys" don't live their life in a TV show/book, like "Anti-social nerds". They're involved in "manly" things like sports. How come us intelligents are at the bottom, while people who are the most incompentent area at the top? Grr. Argh. What an evil world.

_____________
"Freedom is the Freedom to say that 2+2 makes 4. If that is granted, all else follws"-Winston, 1984
Teela Brown, keeper of bad typing.
"No one reads these things any way."- Bart on Blackboard

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Friday, February 20, 2004 4:02 PM

JASONZZZ

Quote:
Originally posted by HiroStone:

I wasn't belittling the intelligence sport fans. It's a fantastic way to learn about stratagy, psychology, logic, statistics, tactics. Just growing up in the South, sports was all consuming: you were either a Seminole or a Gator or you weren't human.

But with Joss' writings, there is that gray area where you just don't know if he goes right or left or make a complete u-turn.

Jayne: "What'd ya'll order a dead guy for?"

-Hiro

Whoa! giving the *sports* a little too much credit. It really is not much more than unabashed "us" against "them". Raw emotions about our tribe is better than "yours" - sometimes against better logic and judgement. I can certaily understand the fascination with the *sports* when there were still heros in the games - nowadays? hehe. What about atheleticism, sportsmanship and all of that crap. Puleeasse! I don't think it's worth the 12 Million bucks in salary or the 40 dollar ticket seats. People get indoctrinated into this completely unreasonable and crazy practice in school, so I can't blame them for their addictive need to belong to a screaming mob of idiots. Most cities would gladly throw away Billions of dollars in taxes to support these completely losing propositions (and citizens gladly vote for crappy teams - and they are all crappy) of having a *sports* team and building a new stadium every single year; they would rather burn all of this money than to spend this on our kids, library, art, our future. If *sports* is that great, then let's give it a fair shake. I think our school is just as important if not more, so let's give the MVP salaries to our teachers and let those fatheads throwing balls around eat fishsticks, drive crappy cars, and run around all the time worrying whether they have enough money to buy the "equipment" they need do do a decent job.

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Friday, February 20, 2004 4:03 PM

JASONZZZ

Ooohs, Geeks and Fandom. Where do you sit?
(as seen on wwdn)

http://www.brunching.com/geekhierarchy.html

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Friday, February 20, 2004 4:36 PM

HIROSTONE

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
They would rather burn all of this money than to spend this on our kids, library, art, our future. If *sports* is that great, then let's give it a fair shake. I think our school is just as important if not more, so let's give the MVP salaries to our teachers and let those fatheads throwing balls around eat fishsticks, drive crappy cars, and run around all the time worrying whether they have enough money to buy the "equipment" they need do do a decent job.

That's been an arguement since the first million dollar sports contract was signed. However, you are right that teachers deserve alot more. Education is very important to our future. I wholeheartedly agree that money spent on insane sports contracts should be put into those programs.

Case in point, Jacksonville, where next year's Super Bowl, is thinking of a tax to raise $15 million dollars to refurbish our stadium. $15 million dollars for one game? And they're closing my old elementary school?

Man...

"Don't wish it was easier; wish you were better. Don't wish for less problems; wish for more skills. Don't wish for less challenges; wish for more wisdom." -- Jim Rohn

-Hiro

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Friday, February 20, 2004 6:14 PM

CAPTAINTIGHTPANTS

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
My mother has the the Enterprise-A in her entryway. My dad isn't big on sci-fi, but he knows what a Klingon is. They were both alive before the moon landing and considered that science fiction.

I've been immersed in science-fiction and fantasy from day one. I can't imagine being without it, and I have a hard time relating to those who weren't even remotely exposed to it, or refuse to acknowledge it.

How can you not allow your mind to expand beyond what is to what could be?

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

I totally agree with you, Channain! I wonder if the worlds they carry in their heads are less colorful or have narrower horizons.

I was introed to SF/Fantasy when I was quite young, but Classic Trek was my first true SF love. I was 9 and it had been syndicated for 4-5 years by then. I built the models and went to Cons. Including the first Con where Gene announced his movie plans. Of course, it took almost a decade to make good on it. Hopefully Joss won't take that long to make the Firefly movie.

And I love that quote! Beautiful.

You're gonna come with us...

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Friday, February 20, 2004 6:14 PM

CAPTAINTIGHTPANTS

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
My mother has the the Enterprise-A in her entryway. My dad isn't big on sci-fi, but he knows what a Klingon is. They were both alive before the moon landing and considered that science fiction.

I've been immersed in science-fiction and fantasy from day one. I can't imagine being without it, and I have a hard time relating to those who weren't even remotely exposed to it, or refuse to acknowledge it.

How can you not allow your mind to expand beyond what is to what could be?

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

And I love that quote! Beautiful.

You're gonna come with us...

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Friday, February 20, 2004 6:41 PM

LTNOWIS

Quote:

That's been an arguement since the first million dollar sports contract was signed. However, you are right that teachers deserve alot more. Education is very important to our future. I wholeheartedly agree that money spent on insane sports contracts should be put into those programs.

Another example would be the suspended-with-pay Colorado University coach in the rape scandal, who's making 10 times as much as the University's Nobel Prize winners.

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Tuesday, February 24, 2004 5:48 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by Knibblet:
When I wear my Klingon hockey sweater (signed by Michael Dorn) to Wild games, most people pay it no attention in hockey-saturated Minnesota. However, every now and again someone will recognize the symbol and give me a huge grin.

Ah Yes. Stealth Fandom. One of my favorite joys is wearing a hall costume that normal people won't recognize as a costume. Has practical benefits too: One time I fender-bended someone while wearing a Colonial Marines uniform from "Aliens". I backed into his jet-black car in a darkened liquor store parking lot. Lest someone think me morally culpable, let me specify that he was parked diagonally across three parking spaces at the time, and was DUI to boot.

Guy stumbles out, looks at his crumpled fender, runs watery eyes over me and says, "Hey sergeant, you on manouvers? Let's keep the insurance out of it."

The contact information I gave him specified that was with the United States Colonial Marine Detachment, USS Sulaco, assigned to Acheron Colony. He didn't twig, even though I read it out loud to him.*

*Footquote: "Think of it as evolution in action." -- Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle.

RocketJock

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Tuesday, February 24, 2004 6:27 PM

JASONZZZ

How about Klingons and Colonial Marines holding a bake sale for the local library or teach a SciFi course at the local elementary school. Klingons or Vulcans reading for the blind? I'd like to see that. Otherwise, I feel that us fans are just as self-absorbed as the local bunch of idiotic sports fans are. Perpetually getting drunk, getting laid, and getting tattooed.

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:
Quote:
Originally posted by Knibblet:
When I wear my Klingon hockey sweater (signed by Michael Dorn) to Wild games, most people pay it no attention in hockey-saturated Minnesota. However, every now and again someone will recognize the symbol and give me a huge grin.

Ah Yes. Stealth Fandom. One of my favorite joys is wearing a hall costume that normal people won't recognize as a costume. Has practical benefits too: One time I fender-bended someone while wearing a Colonial Marines uniform from "Aliens". I backed into his jet-black car in a darkened liquor store parking lot. Lest someone think me morally culpable, let me specify that he was parked diagonally across three parking spaces at the time, and was DUI to boot.

Guy stumbles out, looks at his crumpled fender, runs watery eyes over me and says, "Hey sergeant, you on manouvers? Let's keep the insurance out of it."

The contact information I gave him specified that was with the United States Colonial Marine Detachment, USS Sulaco, assigned to Acheron Colony. He didn't twig, even though I read it out loud to him.*

*Footquote: "Think of it as evolution in action." -- Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle.

RocketJock

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Wednesday, February 25, 2004 4:43 AM

KNIBBLET

Glad I can be of assistance then. My volunteer job is recording computertext books for blind college students. It's a great way to spend four hours a week and I can't recommend it highly enough.

http://www.mnssb.org/allages/commcenter/tape.html

Look into how you can help your community.

Here in the Twin Cities, the group that you'll always see manning the phones for the Public Television membership drive is the USS Nocomis, a ST fan club.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Klingons or Vulcans reading for the blind? I'd like to see that. Otherwise, I feel that us fans are just as self-absorbed as the local bunch of idiotic sports fans are. Perpetually getting drunk, getting laid, and getting tattooed.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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