Help needed! - A Browncoat in distress! by UVnet

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Help needed! - A Browncoat in distress!

POSTED BY: UVNET
UPDATED: Saturday, February 10, 2007 15:55
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Friday, February 9, 2007 7:37 PM

Well, it's pretty simple.

I have a friend who is a hardcore Sci-Fi fan, and he insists that the use of horsemanship in the Firefly 'verse is just plain stupid, that it makes no sense and that the only reason it was ever included was for the coolness and western factors. I have argued the issue with him endlessly yet he insists there is just no way to justify it (meaning logically, not for reasons of style).

Needless to say I am a huge fan (to tell the truth he likes the show too) and I just can't stand the fact he won't accept the probability or logic of it all.

So, here comes the part I need help with: I need every piece of opinion, knowledge, or any kind of geeky browncoatness to help me find a way to convince him (and to win this gorram argument already!)

So... any thoughts?

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Friday, February 9, 2007 7:55 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Well..... firstly, Firefly should seem more realistic to anybody if for no other reason that the complete lack of frogmen, vulcans and Gods.

Obviously the Alliance didn't have enough resources when the first colonists conquered and terraformed the other planets, or they could have done it themselves and brought their cool technology and gadgets with them in the first place. Horses, on the other hand, are the perfect solution for the given situation. They're relatively cheap to maintain, they generally obey their masters, they can be bred and replaced by younger horses and you don't need to send scientists and engineers to each world to make sure the gears keep turning on them.

There's probably a lot more that could be said about them, but I don't imagine that any more is really needed.

Hope this helps.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, February 9, 2007 8:32 PM

ROY

Here's some suggestions:

In core worlds high tech is fairly common, on rim worlds that tech exixts but is somewhat rarer.

A few years prior, there was a devastating war. The independents lost and there's a good chance their production facilities (the rim) are mostly destroyed. See Germany in the aftermath of WW2.

While colonies might start out with some high tech stuff, until the population and industry are sufficiently mature, that tech is difficult to maintain and impossible to replace from their own sources. Eg US in 1600s depended on Europe for firearms & gunpowder.

After the war finished, rebuilding took time & the losing side will have to fend for itself for a while as the winners patch up their hurt first. The worlds are being rebuilt, Mal says several times that the Alliance are pushing out further every year. Meaning, as the Alliance rebuilds, they bring their brand of *civilisation* with them.

Compare the tech you see in a modern city versus what you see in the rural regions of a 3rd world country in the aftermath of a war. I reckon there's parallels between this and the 'verse.

Jayne: "Gorram, Alliance high tech crap."

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Friday, February 9, 2007 9:00 PM

BULLETINTHEBRAINPANSQUISH

Also, you could tell your friend that there were horses used in 'Earth 2', but that in no way detracts from its' sci-fi-ey-ness. Therefore, the presence of horses in a sci-fi show does not make it other than sci-fi, and nor is Firefly unique in having horses in a sci-fi. So there. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Mal gives control of the ship to Zoe...
Mal: If I'm not back in an hour, you come, and you rescue me.
Zoe: What? And risk my ship?

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Saturday, February 10, 2007 12:07 AM

ZZETTA13

We're talking about the rim planets here. I live in a part of the country (USA) where ppl love horses and ride them all the time. I also see ppl walking to get where they want to go and I'm talking sometime 2 miles or so. Where is their can? Well my friend not everyone can have a car or afford one. Not every person or group of ppl living on the rim worlds can ride around in a spify hover craft. Technology is widespread but it isn't everywhere. Just as in todays world, I wonder what the primative native living in the Amazon thinks when he (or she) looks ups and sees the jet airplane flying over their jungle. Not everyone has the latest in human technology and not everyone wants it. I think that native will be happy just being alive and breathing.

Z

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Saturday, February 10, 2007 12:24 AM

DARKFLY

More realistic than other shows,more believable characters,not going through wormholes or saving the galaxy,funnier,& cooler.

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Want pics, vids, and ringtones related to Firefly or Serenity get them here...
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=26986

]

Go to

to see my cool trailer.

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Saturday, February 10, 2007 12:28 AM

JORUNE

Imagine that you're a big powerful central govt and you're dumping settlers on all the moons and planetoids you can find. You drop minimal rations and tell the settlers to just get on with it.

Do you
a) Also drop in a handy car/spare parts factory and do regular maintenance runs
or
b) give them horses which are a renewable resource

What are the settlers cultural preferences? Across northern Norway, Sweden and Finland are the saami people who herd reindeer. These days they use skidoos but historically they used horses. Horse use is still common in South America, Rural China, Siberia and Africa.

One of the themes of Firefly is struggling to get by, living on the egde. The BDHs are going to poor towns where there is not much money, cars and mules are expensive to buy, expensive to run and it could be that most folk can't afford one but they can afford a horse.

The outer planets are not the technological wonders that you see in the Core. There is a big difference between those that have and those who do not.

Hopefully this will give you a few shiny ideas.

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Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:22 AM

BULLETINTHEBRAINPANSQUISH

Just thought of this, though it's a bit macabre. You can't eat a mule if you're crops fail or you can't find sufficient natural forage and hunting opportunities. You can, however, eat a horse if you become desperate.

Mal gives control of the ship to Zoe...
Mal: If I'm not back in an hour, you come, and you rescue me.
Zoe: What? And risk my ship?

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Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:58 AM

TRENCHMONKEY

Quote:
Originally posted by BulletInTheBrainPanSquish:
You can, however, eat a horse if you become desperate.

or not so despereate if your in france, it actually tastes ok

I dont suffer from madness, I enjoy it.

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Saturday, February 10, 2007 5:22 AM

CAUSAL

Don't have time to read all the posts, to apologies if this has been mentioned.

Main reason: cash. As Mal said, they dump the settlers down there with a blanket and a herd--they're not exactly living in luxury. I highly doubt that Farmers could afford a hover-type vehicle of the sort that Rance Burgess is seen driving. Those things have just got to be pretty damned expensive. So on to the second issue. Horses: cheap, and if you get two of them, they reproduce.

Next: space. I'm not talking the stuff they flew through to get to the planet, I'm talking aboard cargo vessels. Yeah, sure, they semm big, but honestly, five vehicles would have more than filled Serenity's Cargo bay. And who gives a crap about vehicles when what you really need is food? Heck, space on ship was so precious they used those super compact food bars seen in the pilot. Horses, as previously mentioned, can reproduce, so if you take three or four pair, you'll be able to breed a whole bunch with not much fuss.

Third: roads. OK, great, hover vehicles can go places wheeled vehicles cannot. But most traffic is going to be restricted to roadways. But a planet just being settled isn't going to have any of that. So how are you going to get around? Horses. They can walk between trees, through gorges, over hills, and all without any problem. Why bother with something that is just not going to get you to wehere you need to go.

Finally: fuel. Vehicles, of any type, need fuel. And I don't think that building an Exxon station is going to be first on the priority list. Plus, it plays into the space thing. They could bring millions of gallons of gas, or they could bring food or supplies. Which do you suppose is more desperately needed? Horses just munch on whatever's at hand.

Hope that helps.

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets

Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police

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Saturday, February 10, 2007 5:27 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Browncoats are pretty damn cool people. I think we just managed to say 1 thing about 8 different ways. Great minds think alike!

Tell your boy to put that in his pipe and smoke it.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, February 10, 2007 6:11 AM

DONCOAT

I vote for the fuel problem as the most significant.

Assuming that the colony has been seeded with grasses and scrub plants, horses are self-fueling and self-manufacturing.

But hydrocarbon-fueled vehicles are another matter. You'd need either a large agribusiness infrastructure (to grow crops like cane or maize to turn into fuels, which would make them unavailable for other purposes) or some sort of fossil fuel resource.

But we're talking about terraformed worlds that never had indigenous life. No life, no fossil fuels. Here's a tip: don't bother shipping a drilling rig to the Moon -- you're not going to strike any black gold under the Mare Tranquilitatis.

So, you're either going to burn up a large fraction of your agricultural output, or you'll have to ship a lot of fuel in from somewhere else. Neither of those makes sense for a struggling colony.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:17 PM

MORWEN112

Another note about horses and fuel-

Horse waste can be used as fuel for fires. Pioneers traveling on the American plains in the 19th century couldn't find much wood for fires, so they used the waste from oxen and buffalo. Horse waste would be pretty similar, since they eat the same sort of thing.

Speaking as one who works with and around horses a lot, I have to say that I would much rather be dumped on a terraformed moon with a few horses than a few of those high-tech things. Horses take care of themselves, reproduce themselves and are also some of the most loyal and intelligent animal companions you could ever hope to have.

Mine is an evil sugar high laugh! Bwahahahaha!

Morwen

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Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:42 PM

KAYLEEGIRL

I'd say it is pretty simple: what about our world? Is there any logical reason for any of us to still be riding horses? We still do -- and for all the same reasons the others have come up with to prove it's logical in the FF 'verse. People just like horses and always will. (They're much better company than cars, etc.)

The more things change, the more they stay the same is all.

If I'm gonna dream, I'm gonna dream big.

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Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:51 PM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by KayleeGirl:
I'd say it is pretty simple: what about our world? Is there any logical reason for any of us to still be riding horses? We still do -- and for all the same reasons the others have come up with to prove it's logical in the FF 'verse. People just like horses and always will.

Well, yeah, but I gotta think that settlers are going to have more on their mind that what sorts of animals they like--for instance, survival. And I'm thinking that liking horses (which is easy to understand, mind you) is going to be way less important than the utility of the horse.

My $0.02.

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets

Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police

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Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:55 PM

MYCROFT2

Since your friend is a hardcore Scifi fan, the reasoning for horses on colonies on other worlds
was said best by Robert A. Heinlein:

"Horses can make more horses, and that’s a trick tractors have never learned."

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