Theory on Book by Calhoun

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Theory on Book

POSTED BY: CALHOUN
UPDATED: Saturday, March 6, 2004 07:21
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Thursday, March 4, 2004 7:42 PM

CALHOUN

I have a theory that shepard Book is a Reaver infiltrator.. I dont know why.. I just get this feeling..

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Thursday, March 4, 2004 9:59 PM

TALONPEST

It would very much go against everything we know about Reavers... namely that they're uncivilized insane canabalistic savages...

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Thursday, March 4, 2004 11:40 PM

ATHERTONWING

Quote:
Originally posted by Talonpest:
It would very much go against everything we know about Reavers... namely that they're uncivilized insane canabalistic savages...

RUN RUN FOR YOUR LIVERS...book is hungry

yeah i'm inclined to agree if he's an agent of anyone it'll be the alliance

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Friday, March 5, 2004 1:04 AM

WREN

Sorry if this has been discussed before but, if the reavers are uncivilised and insane why do they go to the trouble of hunting prey on other ships? Wouldn't it be easier for them to attack each other? Plus how do they maintain and fly ships? I think they have a civilisation and someone is controlling them. Don't think its Book though.

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Friday, March 5, 2004 5:44 AM

PALADIN

Similar things can be said of some tribes in more ancient time. Ruthless and savage barbarians with not a scrap of civilization in the lot of 'em. Yet the don't just die out. There's got to be some sort of actual organization there.
Maybe the movie has a King Reaver who directs their diabolical purposes. Maybe I'm crazy too.

------------
"If you take sexual advantage of her, you're going to burn in a very special level of Hell, a level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater." -Book

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Friday, March 5, 2004 6:03 AM

DUKE

I am sticking to my own personal pet theory that Book is ex-Alliance. A commanding officer who fough on the Alliance side at the Battle of Serenity and, upon witnessing the utter devestation, resigned his commision and got religon."

"I'll be in my bunk..."

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Friday, March 5, 2004 9:19 AM

REYVNDARKNIGHT

Quote:
Originally posted by Duke:
I am sticking to my own personal pet theory that Book is ex-Alliance. A commanding officer who fough on the Alliance side at the Battle of Serenity and, upon witnessing the utter devestation, resigned his commision and got religon."

"I'll be in my bunk..."

I support that theory. I would even go so far as to say that if you remember, Book seemed to be looking specifically for a certain ship in the pilot episode. Maybe Book is aware of Mal's history at the Battle of Serenity and he is seeking to serve out a personal form of penance by looking for Mal.

I believe that he was a General, a famous General, who perhaps won the Battle of Senrinity. That would certainly explain the reaction of the Alliance officer when he saw Books ident card.

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Friday, March 5, 2004 9:30 AM

BENSHAHN

[p]I think it's been pretty well established in these threads that Book is former Alliance(the information he has, his treatment by Alliance officers when they find out who he is, the scene where River is reading everyone's most hidden thought, Jubal Early's comment). He could be either a former high ranking Alliance officer or a war hero.[/p]
[p]Book was probably at or involved in the Battle of Serenity. Here's the reasoning; In the outtake he knows about the battle and that the ship Serenity is named for it. Also, in the pilot Serenity Kaylee points out he's looking at ships but he was passing by the Serenity. He's flown in a Firefly class ship before and isn't interested in it. It isn't until she mentions the name that his attitude changes. When he hears the name "Serenity", he looks at the ship, then back at Kaylee and he's ready to talk price.[/p]
[p]Now hears the interesting bit. In terms of the story, Book and Mal are parallel characters. Both have experienced the same or similar things but have reacted in different ways. Mal's response is to retreat from religion, Book response is to retreat into religion.[/p]
[p]Now here's an even more interesting bit. What would you call someone from an earlier time and circumstance who lost their purpose? You might call them "dinosaurs". Wash's dinosaurs might be an allegory illustrating the above. A land that will be your grave, sudden but inevitable betrayal, and at the end, one dinosaur denies god (No god) and the other appeals to god(Dear God in Heaven), these could represent the Battle of Serenity, Mal, and Book. Ok, this might be a stretch but it's a comfortable one.[/p]
[p]This brings us to young River's comment, when she is playing at being part of an Alliance troop, (remember this is from a story point of view) that they were defeated by the Independents because the Independents had "dinosaurs" (Mal or people like him?)[/p]
[p]And this brings us to who the Reavers might be. This is a repost of mine from the thread "Pity the Reavers" (Sorry, I don't know how to post a link here.)[/p]
[p]Mal knows more than most about the Reavers.
When the survivor in Bushwacked mutilates himself, the Alliance officer says he hasn't seen that kind of torture since the war and he says it with disgust. He is accusing Mal, who he knows to be a former Independent,of doing it.[/p]
[p]Now keep in mind that this is a story and information from the writer will sometimes be in unusual places. In Safe, young River talks about a pretend Alliance group that is cut off by the Independents. The Alliance members resort to cannibalism[/p]
[p]Now remember that Firefly is the American West during Reconstruction(similar to early TV shows like The Rebel or The Loner). Joss said he was inspired to write Firefly after reading a book about the Civil War. Now think Andersonville prison.(Yes,I know bad things were done by both sides, but that's not the point at the moment)[/p]
[p]Chances are the Independents are not saints.[/p]
[p]Chances are the Reavers are former Alliance.[/p]
[p]This would explain why new Alliance officers know little or nothing about them(It's not something the Alliance wants known) and a reason that they attack Border(former Independence) planets and ships in these areas (they do suicidal things like run without core shielding but they do not attack core planets.So never having attacked the Core worlds isn't from fear).[/p]

[p]New stuff: This idea of the Reavers fits nicely with Whedon's writing style; wanting to surprise the viewer with the unexpected, main characters with dark backgrounds, and the theme of redemption. When Mal says," Nothing worse than a monster thinks he's right with god", what if he knows this because he's also talking about himself?

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Friday, March 5, 2004 9:34 AM

DUKE

Quote:
Originally posted by ReyvnDarKnight:
I would even go so far as to say that if you remember, Book seemed to be looking specifically for a certain ship in the pilot episode. Maybe Book is aware of Mal's history at the Battle of Serenity and he is seeking to serve out a personal form of penance by looking for Mal.

A distinct possibility.

Quote:
Originally posted by ReyvnDarKnight:

I believe that he was a General, a famous General, who perhaps won the Battle of Senrinity. That would certainly explain the reaction of the Alliance officer when he saw Books ident card.

I agree that he was probably a high level officer. Maybe even a general. Certainly high enough to make Alliance lackeys jump when they scan his ident card.

However, I question if he was a "famous general." I suspect that he was just low enough on the chain of command for the history books to overlook him, or at least to not focus on him. Otherwise, Mal and others would recognize him from media exposure.

"I'll be in my bunk..."

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Friday, March 5, 2004 10:29 AM

TALONPEST

I don't think he was a general. His line in Objects in Space, "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not. Now where does that leave you?" indicates that he was more of a judge/jurry/executioner kind of guy. Also his knowledge of people like Niska and the carrion house aren't something a general would be dealing with. I'm thinking Gestapo style secret police.

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Friday, March 5, 2004 12:05 PM

WHOODAHN

Quote:
Originally posted by Talonpest:
I don't think he was a general. His line in Objects in Space, "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not. Now where does that leave you?" indicates that he was more of a judge/jurry/executioner kind of guy. Also his knowledge of people like Niska and the carrion house aren't something a general would be dealing with. I'm thinking Gestapo style secret police.

His familiarity with Shun-Yu in War Stories makes me think he was an interrogator.

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Friday, March 5, 2004 12:53 PM

BENSHAHN

Quote:
Originally posted by Duke:
Quote:
Originally posted by ReyvnDarKnight:
I would even go so far as to say that if you remember, Book seemed to be looking specifically for a certain ship in the pilot episode. Maybe Book is aware of Mal's history at the Battle of Serenity and he is seeking to serve out a personal form of penance by looking for Mal.

Actually, this can't be the case. He tells Inara, "I think I got on the wrong ship." He would not have said this if he had been looking for Serenity and Mal. If you look at the pilot you will see that he is not interested in Serenity until he hears her name. This probably interests him because of his connection to Serenity Valley. His only relationship to Mal is a literary one( a parallelism.See my previous post).

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Friday, March 5, 2004 12:58 PM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by benshahn:
[p]Now hears the interesting bit. In terms of the story, Book and Mal are parallel characters. Both have experienced the same or similar things but have reacted in different ways. Mal's response is to retreat from religion, Book response is to retreat into religion.[/p]
[p]Now here's an even more interesting bit. What would you call someone from an earlier time and circumstance who lost their purpose? You might call them "dinosaurs". Wash's dinosaurs might be an allegory illustrating the above. A land that will be your grave, sudden but inevitable betrayal, and at the end, one dinosaur denies god (No god) and the other appeals to god(Dear God in Heaven), these could represent the Battle of Serenity, Mal, and Book. Ok, this might be a stretch but it's a comfortable one.[/p]

Brilliant! I'm not sayin' it's necessarily correct, but it's brilliant nonetheless! Mal-Dino: "No God!"...Book-Dino: "Dear God in Heaven" -- I love it! (I should also point out for those who have reviewed the DVD extras, that Book, or rather Ron Glass, DOES have a pretty evil laugh!

)

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Friday, March 5, 2004 1:42 PM

SHINY

Now that I think about it though...weren't "no god" and "dear god in heaven" 'spoken' by the SAME dinosaur? (the one the T-rex was attacking?)

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Friday, March 5, 2004 10:44 PM

BENSHAHN

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
Now that I think about it though...weren't "no god" and "dear god in heaven" 'spoken' by the SAME dinosaur? (the one the T-rex was attacking?)

Nope. It happens quickly but if you go back and look you'll see this: The T-rex attacks the stegosaurus, the stegosaurus says "No god". It then attacks the T-rex which then says "Oh, Dear God in Heaven". The stegosaurus attack is a much smaller movement as the toys are close together at this point.

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Saturday, March 6, 2004 2:56 AM

CALHOUN

Thats just silly!

Stegosaurus are herbavores(unsure of spelling)..........they would just roll over and play dead.

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Saturday, March 6, 2004 6:06 AM

RANGER

I think the theory that Book was an important actor in the Alliance before he became Book runs against the premis of the show (this isn't about the people who made history, it's about the people history stepped on). With that in mind, I think Book was probably a cog in the Alliance machine rather than a significant figure. He probably was very good at his job and widely respected by his peers, but that doesn't mean nessessarally he was a commanding general.

Traveller, if you go to Sparta, tell them you have seen us lying here as the Law commands.

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Saturday, March 6, 2004 6:40 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by Ranger:
I think the theory that Book was an important actor in the Alliance before he became Book runs against the premis of the show (this isn't about the people who made history, it's about the people history stepped on).

What if Book went from being a maker to being stepped on? It still fits (he is no longer a history maker), and it makes and interesting character since he willingly got under history's feet.

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Saturday, March 6, 2004 7:10 AM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by benshahn:
Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
Now that I think about it though...weren't "no god" and "dear god in heaven" 'spoken' by the SAME dinosaur? (the one the T-rex was attacking?)

Nope. It happens quickly but if you go back and look you'll see this: The T-rex attacks the stegosaurus, the stegosaurus says "No god". It then attacks the T-rex which then says "Oh, Dear God in Heaven". The stegosaurus attack is a much smaller movement as the toys are close together at this point.

But why would the T-rex cry out "dear god in heaven!" while he is devouring the stegosaurus? It sounds like something someone getting eaten would say as opposed to someone doing the eating (unless you think the T-rex is saying grace or somethin'...)

(plus if you go back and re-watch it, he uses the steg voice for both 'no god' and 'dear god in heaven' while in between the two uses the different T-rex voice to do some 'ARRGGG!'s)

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Saturday, March 6, 2004 7:21 AM

LEAFY

I think Book was more like a professor, a teacher for the Alliance, something like that. He knows something so hugely incriminating about the Alliance, and one of those "If I die this will all be made public" things, so everybody has been ordered to treat him very gently. Whatever it is, they made him quit teaching, and he went to study to be a Shepherd.

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