GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

I wish you all could rcognise

POSTED BY: CACHE
UPDATED: Saturday, March 31, 2007 22:57
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 21057
PAGE 2 of 3

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:10 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


" It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled , or where the doer of deeds
could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena , whose face is marred by dust and
sweat and blood , who strives valiantly , who errs and comes short again and again , who knows the great enthusiasms,
the great devotions , and spends himself in a worthy cause , who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he
fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither
victory nor defeat . "

--Theodore Roosevelt
From a speech given in Paris at the Sorbonne in 1910

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

" When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

--Leonardo da Vinci

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:10 AM

SHUKES


I'm going to have to disagree with the misguided and quite frankly moronic idea.

What Browncoats have done is nothing short of miraculous, i am a fairly new firefly obsessive and if it wasn't for them getting a movie made id never heard of it, let alone joined the fight to get it back any way i can. I was taken to see Serenity by a friend who had seen the series some how and fell in love with the characters and world so bought the dvd. Hell I dont join message boards for anything and i did for firefly because its so amazing.

I say all this to make the following point, none of this would have happen were it not for the Browncoats so id say they probably have a damn sight better idea of how to fight for this show than you, they've got the experience.

In Summation; put your brain in gear first before opening your mouth. Remember wisdom is knowing that you infact know almost nothing.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:41 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Cache:
We are talking
about a show where the protagonists are basicly
pirates and you take the high ground when I
mention copying the DVDs as a method to induce
others to purchase them? You could cut that
irony with a knife.



Work of fiction ........ Real life

Darling, you might want to look those up.

Anyway, it's not about being puritanical, it's about what works. For instance, attacking a group of people who have been devoted to a cause for years, preaching down to them as if they're idiots and you're a god... not the best way to win anyone over. (Except one schmoe whose sole purpose on this site is to argue.)

Think about it. Walk soft and be not an ass, it works better. Especially when you're talking about PR.


-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:03 AM

KANEMAN


Haken Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 06:57




"Sharereactor and websites like it (such as www.bucktv.net) acts as a directory and contains links to files available on the eDonkey peer-to-peer file sharing network. Clicking on one of these links (much like clicking on a hyperlink in your browser) loads the file information into your eDonkey network client (eMule Plus is a good one). Once the information is loaded, your eDonkey network client then proceeds to download the file from the peer-to-peer network."

"What makes these directories popular is that they contain links to television programs aired here in the US. So if you were to miss an episode of your favorite show (if you're in the US), you can simply download it and watch it. If you're not in the US, these network would be the only way for someone in a foreign country to watch an American television show. One could think of this as a poor man on-demand television network."


Hey [MOD EDIT: Please refrain from personal attacks]

These are Haken's words from a blog. Haken has done more than most. Does he seem anti-(well)Hacker?

[MOD EDIT: Please refrain from personal attacks]

......End of story



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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:45 AM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?


I don't see anything in that blog about downloading the shows, then burning them, and then selling them for profit. THE very issue from which I developed a rant. Notice the use of phrases like “the only way”. If Cache's solution were the only way to promote Fireflys story to thems that need it told, I guess I’d go for it. …sans the theft and profit part you suggested. But it is not.

Let's recap:
Theft, Bad.
Peer-to-Peer file sharing, not against it.

How is the view from that limb your on?


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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 12:11 PM

LIVEBROWN


I would be very interested in seeing the numbers of Firefly/Serenity converts that have come from pirated disks vs legal purchased copies. I personally was converted by being given the series as a present and I have done the same to many of my family + friends. I have also loaned out my extra disks on a regular basis which is great coz once I claim them back almost ALL of these people buy their own.

The brilliant browncoats know that by having multiple copies and sharing them via loan or often unwanted xmas and b'day presents(LOL) you are not only helping to share the best series/movie ever made but you are also telling the networks in the only way they understand that we want a BDS!! They dont care about how many people use torrents, they want to know sales figures(see : Done the impossible).

How many people that are given a free copy actually go out and buy the orig version? Then of those people how many share the pirate version with their friends who also dont buy the orig disks. If you were a TRUE browncoat you would understand what the rest of us are saying.

Another thing, without the shiny packaging that shows how tight the captains pants are, surely that hurts our female conversion numbers?



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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 12:41 PM

GHOULFISH


welcome to fff.net

now say sorry or go away before i cybersmack you to troll country

Firefly is described as a scifi cult classic, our support helped to make the BDM, we are unorganised because we lack the information to do otherwise than writing letters, sending emails and supporting Joss.

Virus and Pirating tactics do more damage than good, even a troll suchs as yourself should realize that.

Maybe you are having a failure to communicate
and, learn how to spell

http://picasaweb.google.com/ghoulfish/Hiahiah/photo#504383828540607891
4

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 1:47 PM

TDBROWN


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Haken Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 06:57




"Sharereactor and websites like it (such as www.bucktv.net) acts as a directory and contains links to files available on the eDonkey peer-to-peer file sharing network. Clicking on one of these links (much like clicking on a hyperlink in your browser) loads the file information into your eDonkey network client (eMule Plus is a good one). Once the information is loaded, your eDonkey network client then proceeds to download the file from the peer-to-peer network."

"What makes these directories popular is that they contain links to television programs aired here in the US. So if you were to miss an episode of your favorite show (if you're in the US), you can simply download it and watch it. If you're not in the US, these network would be the only way for someone in a foreign country to watch an American television show. One could think of this as a poor man on-demand television network."


Hey [MOD EDIT: Please refrain from personal attacks]

These are Haken's words from a blog. Haken has done more than most. Does he seem anti-(well)Hacker?

[MOD EDIT: Please refrain from personal attacks]
......End of story





Haken's post is about watching, not stealing, US TV Shows. If it's like the shows you can watch and download on cbs.com and abc.com, they include the commercials. IOW, it's part of the way the networks do business. It's not some clever pirating scheme; It's just another way for TV Stations to get you to watch their Programs, which is the equivalent of getting you to watch their ADVERTISERS!

Get a life, Felon...

"Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." -Mal

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:52 PM

TROUBLEMAKER


Quote:

Originally posted by TDBrown:
Haken's post is about watching, not stealing, US TV Shows. If it's like the shows you can watch and download on cbs.com and abc.com, they include the commercials. IOW, it's part of the way the networks do business. It's not some clever pirating scheme; It's just another way for TV Stations to get you to watch their Programs, which is the equivalent of getting you to watch their ADVERTISERS!

Get a life, Felon...

"Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." -Mal



Thats the problem right there. Most people cannot see the difference between "watching" and "distributing". If your plan is a way to "hurt" a company, I would think that would be a bad thing.

Now, here's the slippery slope that I think both sides are arguing. If you TiVo/PVR an episode and put it on a website to distribute, it would seem like fair game (it was aired on a public station, why not). For instance, if you Tivo/PVR Firefly on UHD or SciFi channel, then distributed it; I would say that would be a grey area (I believe you have to pay to receive UHD).

If you burned a copy of licensed product and then distributed it (regardless of whether or not you are making a profit), it would be piracy. Some dont see a distinction. If they want it and they can get for free, there is no problem.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:25 PM

CACHE


Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulfish:
welcome to fff.net

now say sorry or go away before i cybersmack you to troll country

Firefly is described as a scifi cult classic, our support helped to make the BDM, we are unorganised because we lack the information to do otherwise than writing letters, sending emails and supporting Joss.

Virus and Pirating tactics do more damage than good, even a troll suchs as yourself should realize that.

Maybe you are having a failure to communicate
and, learn how to spell

http://picasaweb.google.com/ghoulfish/Hiahiah/photo#504383828540607891
4



Calling me a troll, spell flames, all strawmen. If you don't agree with me that is fine, let us
not stoop to insults.

I understand that many of you might be insulted
by my initial post and I am sorry. I was a bit
emotionally charged at the time and not really as
informed as I should have been before I opened my
mouth. You have all done alot and for that I
commend you.

However, my initial point still stands. Picture
this if you will. You have never heard of Firefly
or Serenity. One day a copy of Disc 1 arrives in
your mailbox at random. You watch it. Do you not
purchase the entire box set as soon as you can? Do
you not purchase the movie? Your moral dilemmas
aside this is a point where hundreds or thousands
can turn millions onto an excellent experience.
And maybe provide enough buzz to bring back what
one of the greatest science fiction writers of all
time OSC called the best sci-fi TV series ever.

Yes lending out your boxed sets is all well and
good, but the turn around time is long. Very long.
How long until you can "infect" someone else?
Hence using antiquated delivery systems (USPO)
in combination with modern marketing techniques
(viral distribution) The growth in the fanbase
would be exponential. Again the poignant letter
is the key.

Disagree with my ideas and methods if you will,
I have put in my 2 platinum and said my peace,
but I would much prefer it if you would help me.
My budget does not run that high at the moment.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:38 PM

PETERG


As a very occasional poster, I am not sure why I am getting into this...

If a strange DVD turned up in MY mailbox at random, I would think "Virus" and chuck it in the bin immediately.

This idea is so ill-conceived, it defies belief.

And, frankly, Firefly ain't coming back. Too many years have passed, Gina Torres is pregnant, the sets have gone and Fox clearly had no stomach for it in the first place.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:34 PM

FISKMASEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Cache:

However, my initial point still stands. Picture
this if you will. You have never heard of Firefly
or Serenity. One day a copy of Disc 1 arrives in
your mailbox at random. You watch it. Do you not
purchase the entire box set as soon as you can? Do
you not purchase the movie? Your moral dilemmas
aside this is a point where hundreds or thousands
can turn millions onto an excellent experience.
And maybe provide enough buzz to bring back what
one of the greatest science fiction writers of all
time OSC called the best sci-fi TV series ever.




Wait, let me see if I've gotten this straight. You want us to send out discs to random people, in a country that's got the willies for terrorism?
Yeah, that's a great plan, make the people belive the Browncoats are some part of Al-Qaeda just waiting to blow shit up. =)

"My cartridge fell out of my gun..." - Nathan Fillion

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 7:13 AM

ZOID



Hey, Cache! How're they hangin'?

Okay, first off: He/She only really misspelled 'rcognize' because s/he missed the 'e' key and then probably missed checking the spelling on the header. Cache otherwise seems to have a good grasp of the language, spelling and grammar. So, lighten up on that. S/he seems intelligent, and the arguments presented do have some weight. They differ in substantial ways from Kaneman's, who's clearly a criminal and a miscreant. (NB: "...End of story." -Kaneman. If only.)

'Troublemaker' accused Cache of being under the age of 18. I do not know if that's true (or whether Cache is male or female), because there's no info on Cache's Profile page.

But let's assume that s/he is under 21. Does that mean Cache (or any other teenager) is unintelligent? Absolutely not. What may be presumed is that s/he is inexperienced in the ways of the world. There is no substitute for real-life experience. You cannot read it in a book, or simulate it by philosophical thought experiments.

Being young means making mistakes. A lot of them. And, hopefully, learning from them and not messing up your entire future in the process.

So, Cache, if you feel the need to engage in some creative chaos/anarchy or civil disobedience (because the young are eternally full of piss and vinegar where it comes to the status quo), then I suggest that you risk your future and a criminal record on something more substantial than a TV show/movie. One should never be so cavalier about a venture that may jeopardize your ability to ever hold a job above busboy, for the rest of your life.

You know, go save a whale or a baby harp seal, or something meaningful like that. Spray some rich bitch's $10K mink coat with red Rustoleum... Go fight in a war that people wish would end...or march on Washington to show them how much you wish it would end. Point is, if you're going to be reviled by your society, make it count for something.

I love Firefly with a passion that surprises me. I sense the same in you. But screwing up your future for an entertainment -- whether it's Firefly or your favorite one hundred sound-alike bands -- is a youthful mistake that could not only be costly for the rest of your life, but it is also a mistake that can easily be avoided...



Agedly,

zoid

P.S.
You're much more likely to land employment in a field that can make you a difference maker in our society, if you've only ever been busted for civil disobedience (i.e., 'marching on Washington'), rather than stealing things from big corporations, as you've proposed. Please note: By using the USPS (United States Postal Service) as you outlined, you'd be committing a federal felony. Otherwise known as 'going away to the big house, for nightly same-sex romances with larger, meaner people than yourself'.

I know you've had a brainwave with this whole scheme; but I think you should just put it down on the ground, and back slowly away from it and any other activities of a similar nature you may currently be engaging in.

Be a 'difference maker', and then exercise your righteous indignation along the channels of power; rather than asking, "Would you like to Biggie-size that order (and how about a $5 rip of "Serenity" in HD)?"
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:14 AM

FOLLOWMAL


I'm so glad you're back home, Zoid.

www.goodworkspresents.org

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:27 AM

MAVOURNEEN


Quote:

Originally posted by FollowMal:
I'm so glad you're back home, Zoid.



Can I get an amen??

BTW, If I got a random dvd in the mail from someone I didn't know, it would go live with the 4,000 other dvds I've received from aol. In the trash without a second glance.

------------------------------------------------

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:42 AM

ALLIETHORN7


While I agree that we ain't done everything right, what you're saying is, 1) Insulting to Me, 2) Insulting to the Rest of us folks here, and 3) downright stupid.
You say that you are sorry for being emotionaly charged, Cache? Apology noted... taken, I guess
The facts remain; what you are saying is Illegal, ya? All manner 'o not good!
You've gone and bungled your chance of us hearing you out by your insults to us; would YOU listen to someone who was calling you a pig-headed ass? Yes, you did imply that.

On a side note... the guys spelling ain't THAT bad, folks... c'mon he's got, what? Two mispelled words on this whole thread? There are probably more mis-spellings in this one POST than his entire speech... but, my point remains.

You, good man, are a [MOD EDIT: Please refrain from personal attacks]

-Danny

I wanna take the Bullet,
The one aimed straight for your Heart;
I wanna meet the wolves halfway,
And let them Tear me APART,
But that's not the way they do it here...

THRICE RULES!!!!!!!!!

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:57 AM

TROUBLEMAKER


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:

'Troublemaker' accused Cache of being under the age of 18. I do not know if that's true (or whether Cache is male or female), because there's no info on Cache's Profile page.

But let's assume that s/he is under 21. Does that mean Cache (or any other teenager) is unintelligent? Absolutely not. What may be presumed is that s/he is inexperienced in the ways of the world. There is no substitute for real-life experience. You cannot read it in a book, or simulate it by philosophical thought experiments.



I was aimed more at the fact that suggesting something like this sounds childish. Also, if your going to suggest criminal activity, be of the age that you can feel the full extent of law and not be covered by the "I'm underage, so I dont know better" clause.

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:01 AM

FLYVOTE



Quote:

Originally posted by Cache:
...
people (especially corporations) no longer respond to or acknowledge letters, protests, nor petitions.
...



Quote:

Originally posted by Cache:
...
it you love this series write a letter/email
...



Huh? Writing a letter doesn't work, so do something to get other people to write a letter?



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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:30 AM

ZOID



FollowMal:

'S good to be back, compadre.

...Now if only some of the other (moderately) old-timers would check back in, to at least let us know they were okay. Y'know? I mean, would it hurt 'em to just drop us a line every once in a while?

...But as for me, I'm back with a vengeance, like a once remitted (if rather indolent) cancer...



v/r,
-zed
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:46 AM

NOSADSEVEN


Cache, the irony here is that you are right - letters, protests, and petitions are not effective in these matters. However, letters, protests, and petitions are not the hallmarks of Browncoat efforts. What we've been doing is exactly what you're suggesting, only we've been doing it legally. Instead of burning copies of DVDs, we have purchased extra sets to distribute. We put our money where our mouth is - so much, in fact, that many Browncoats have had trouble ordering copies from Amazon, because they think they are being purchased for resale!

We've been running guerrilla marketing campaigns, organizing charitable ventures in the name of Firefly and/or Serenity, and virally spreading the word since the before viral marketing was the in thing. In fact, we were so effective, Universal framed an entire marketing strategy around our efforts (though, not especially effectively). We have (or had, before things were tightened) fanvids all over YouTube and Google Video, we have thousands of five star reviews on Amazon, and (legal) copies of the DVDs being sent up on the next shuttle to find a permanent home in the International Space Station! We've donated DVDs to libraries across the country, to the troops serving our country (every Naval vessel has Firefly in their DVD library thanks to the DVDs for the Troops effort), and have arranged public screenings of Firefly and Serenity across the country.

So really, you're on the right track, you would just be served better to approach things a little more constructively, with a closer eye to the history.



{Edited, because I neglected to proofread.}
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:57 AM

ORANGEHAT


'Can't we all just get along'
Heh

First off LMAO to "what have you been smokin'" that was my exact train of thought and them BAM written right there under it. I have to agree with the sad terms that Firefly may never be coming back, and after crying for days I sucked it up and ..well now I'm here. And also with the virus thing though I must give kudos for thinking of a plan of action. I mean common, there wouldn't have been the movie (as it was stated over and over) if it weren't for devoted fans like yourself, lets just find a safe legal plan of action and not even the world can stop us...though its done a good job as of yet. Stupid world

I've noticed that many people have pointed out the flaws in this plan but I'm not entirely sure if they have offered a better idea (as I only read the first few and then skimmed) and I definitely don't have one...

That nerdy hat

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:04 AM

ZOID


Mavourneen wrote:
Quote:

...BTW, If I got a random dvd in the mail from someone I didn't know, it would go live with the 4,000 other dvds I've received from aol. In the trash without a second glance.

Like I said, I think Cache's heart is in the right place, I really do.

Okay, so s/he stuck her/his foot in his/her own orifice, right off the bat. But, hey, let those of us who have never unintentionally insulted somebody on this board cast the first stone. I've still got folks on this board who are pissed at me because I've misunderstood their intent, and gone off half-cocked on them.

For me, it's all about intent to do harm, intent to give umbrage. Cache stepped on the toes of some hard-battled Browncoat guerillas, true. But, I reckon s/he was just really excited to be suggesting a new approach...

Having said that, I'm convinced that the approach s/he forwarded would be nothing less than disastrous for everyone who loves Firefly. 'Viral marketing' is not the same thing as copyright infringement on a massive scale, using the Federal postal system as a delivery mechanism. ...And even s/he admitted that people would get arrested, tried and convicted.

That's just lunacy. Even if it worked and Vivendi-Universal said, "Hey! People really like this Firefly/Serenity stuff! Let's make lots more!", that'd be pretty hard biscuits to take when you're in prison and the bull-queers/dykes only want to watch "My Name is Earl" on the communal TV, when Firefly is on.

...And when the murderers and rapists asked you what you did to get incarcerated, would you want to trade on your rep as the guy who 'viral marketed' Firefly, to keep your backside squeaky clean?

Like I said before: This is a disastrously bad idea, regardless its intent to be helpful. The only reason why I even piped up on this subject is to avoid anyone coming to the conclusion that it might actually work, beyond improving their 'love life'...

As to getting a CD-R in the mail, along with a heart-felt letter encouraging me to introduce it to my home entertainment network... (*stops typing until the laughter, hiccuping, and tears cease*) ...ummm, sure, I'd do that.

But seriously, I wouldn't throw it away. They make lovely frisbees/doggie chew toys (at least, for the doggies you're trying to promote to The Great Kennel In The Sky).



Responsively,

zoid

P.S.
Don't get me wrong. I didn't seriously think anyone here would join Cache in her/his scheme. But, you never know. There might be some impressionable types who mistakenly believe there's very little difference between obtaining MP3s from a friend, and distributing those MP3s to thousands of unsuspecting strangers (any number of whom might be law enforcement personnel) by means of a CD-R through the freakin' USPS. They're both a violation of the law, but one of them is downright idiotic. Being able to tell the difference between the two may be more difficult than you'd expect for the inexperienced, if well-intentioned Browncoat...

Did you ever do anything as a young person that you realize today was just plain, catastrophically stupid? Personally, I've got a whole raft of 'em; but they made some sort of hormonally-charged sense at the time...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:17 AM

FLYVOTE


Zoid: only want to watch "My Name is Earl" on the communal TV


Firefly spin-off: My Name is Early

Jubal makes up for all of the bad things that he has done.



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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:38 AM

KANEMAN


Haken also wrote,
"While the majority of these directory sites list television programs and movies, some do have listings for commercial software--such as Sharereactor."

So, it is obvious he was not against pirating. He states they contain TV and Movies. What makes downloading FF or Serenity any different than any other show? At least Haken and I agree...Pirating is good...really good, and cheap. The rest of you can [MOD EDIT: Please refrain from personal attacks]

Oh, he starts his blog by saying...."I AM BUMMED!"

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:53 AM

ZOID



FlyVote suggested:
Quote:

...Firefly spin-off: My Name is Early

Jubal makes up for all of the bad things that he has done.


Now, there's a viral marketing idea. Somebody do an amateur production of that and stick it on 'WhomeverToob'. I'd watch it.



v/r,
-zed
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:12 PM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:

FlyVote suggested:
Quote:

...Firefly spin-off: My Name is Early

Jubal makes up for all of the bad things that he has done.


Now, there's a viral marketing idea. Somebody do an amateur production of that and stick it on 'WhomeverToob'. I'd watch it.



v/r,
-zed
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'



Simon: Are you Jason Lee?
Early: Am I Jay's son Lee?
Simon: What?


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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:35 PM

ZOID


Howdy, kaneman.

I know I'm gonna regret this, but, I just gotta respond.

First, I reckon you're really just itching for a conflict of opinions. So, consider that hankerin' scratched, cuz here it comes...

Second, if you're gonna quote Haken, you might've at least included a link, so his words might be read in their original context, as opposed to excerpting them to fit your own context.

Third, a wrongdoer always looks to find a way to get someone else to join them in wrong-doing. Why not just break the law privately, in the comfort of your own psyche, and leave others out of it? Is it some sort of 'Misery loves company' impulse?

Fourth, if you could afford to legally buy the things you steal, would you? Is it simply about not having enough money? Or do you steal everything that comes within easy reach of your hot little fingers? (*zoid suddenly has mental image of kaneman exiting local supermarket, with vest stuffed full of beef roasts, a la 'Pinto' in "Animal House" (available from kaneman on CD-R, $5US)*)

Fifth, if it was your digital product that a quasi-kaneman was downloading, would you be more pissed if he subsequently sold it in quantity from his fleamarket stall/the back of his conversion van (with orange shag carpeting)? Or would you just chuckle to yourself, and privately congratulate the chap on being such a cunning entrepreneur?

These aren't trick questions. There's no gray area in which you operate. A group of high school friends sharing MP3s is against the law. But if they then burn CDs and sell them to all their classmates, that's a crime in every sense of the word.

If Haken, or anyone else, sips from the digital fountain, that's their business, as long as they accept the potential consequences should The Big Shark (law enforcement) gulp up their particular school of minnows, at random. But when kaneman, or Haken -- or anyone else -- starts profiting from that stream, then they're pissing in the communal watering hole and that hurts everyone.

Such piracy raises the prices for everyone, and makes it financially impossible for new works to be produced. Right now, there are a dearth of new games for the PC, because piracy has killed the goose that laid its stolen golden eggs. Pirating console games is a much tougher business, since the boxes must be modded (crack the case and solder a chip to the board, typically) in order to run writable media. Nobody's gonna get rich selling pirated PS2 or XBox games, and that's a fact.

The corporate response to piracy, then? Tons of new games for consoles, none for the PC. Furthermore, most of the console games could be ported to the PC, but what'd be the point? The game developer will never recoup their expenditures to do so, because pirates will rob them blind before the games ever hit the shelves.

It's wrong. You, kaneman, are wrong. What you do, what others like you do, is wrong. You're ruining a golden age of information for everyone else. Worse still, you're trying to encourage others -- naive people -- to join you, by using the tired old argument, "Everyone else is doing it". No, they're not.

If I knew who you were, I'd turn you in to the police.




Conflictingly,

zoid

P.S.
You could always stop what you're doing. Just a suggestion.
_________________________________________________

"Good luck in prison." -Hobson, Arthur

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:51 PM

GHOULFISH


Quote:

Originally posted by Cache:


Calling me a troll, spell flames, all strawmen. If you don't agree with me that is fine, let us
not stoop to insults.

I understand that many of you might be insulted
by my initial post and I am sorry. I was a bit
emotionally charged at the time and not really as
informed as I should have been before I opened my
mouth. You have all done alot and for that I
commend you.

However, my initial point still stands. Picture
this if you will. You have never heard of Firefly
or Serenity. One day a copy of Disc 1 arrives in
your mailbox at random. You watch it. Do you not
purchase the entire box set as soon as you can? Do
you not purchase the movie? Your moral dilemmas
aside this is a point where hundreds or thousands
can turn millions onto an excellent experience.
And maybe provide enough buzz to bring back what
one of the greatest science fiction writers of all
time OSC called the best sci-fi TV series ever.

Yes lending out your boxed sets is all well and
good, but the turn around time is long. Very long.
How long until you can "infect" someone else?
Hence using antiquated delivery systems (USPO)
in combination with modern marketing techniques
(viral distribution) The growth in the fanbase
would be exponential. Again the poignant letter
is the key.

Disagree with my ideas and methods if you will,
I have put in my 2 platinum and said my peace,
but I would much prefer it if you would help me.
My budget does not run that high at the moment.



Okay now i understand more of where you are coming from (I appologise for my emotionaly charged comment also). Sometimes on this forum we get people who log on once and start calling us idiots so you can see where my reation was coming from. I still think that a viral method would skew some of the sales figures (in a bad way) a bit and since most of the company's which would consider taking up Firefly look at sales figures.

I like the 1 disk teaser idea but that method might prove costly and some parts of the government may take offense to it.

Again sorry for my last post - i got the wrong impression (i hope)

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:57 PM

ZOID



FlyVote continued, in a "My Name Is Early" vein:
Quote:

Simon: Are you Jason Lee?
Early: Am I Jay's son Lee?
Simon: What?


I think he should start with a refuge for abused golden retrievers...



v/r,
-zed
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:57 PM

ZOID


The FFFn server sneezed, and lo, an exact replica of zoid's previous post manifested itself.



v/r,
-zed

P.S.
Gesundheit!
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:21 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by nosadseven:
Cache, the irony here is that you are right - letters protests and petitions are not effective in these matters. However, letters, protests, and petitions are not the hallmarks of Browncoat efforts. What we've been doing is exactly what you're suggesting, only we've been doing it leagally. Instead of burning copies of DVDs, we have purchased extra sets to distribute. We put our money where our mouth is - so much, in fact, that many Browncoats have had trouble ordering copies from Amazon, because they think they are being purchased for resale!

We've been running guerrilla marketing campaigns, organizing charitable ventures in the name of Firefly and/or Serenity, and virally spreading the word since the before viral marketing was the in thing. In fact, we were so effective, Universal framed an entire marketing strategy around our efforts (though, not especially effectively). We have (or had, before things were tightened) fanvids all over YouTube and Google Video, we have thousands and thousands of five star reviews on Amazon, and (legal) copies of the DVDs being sent up on the next shuttle to find a permanent home in the International Space Station! We've donated DVDs to libraries across the country, troops serving our country (every Naval vessel has Firefly in their DVD library thanks to the DVDs for the Troops effort), and have arranged public screenings of Firefly and Serenity across the country.

So really, you're on the right track, you would just be served better to approach things a little more constructively, with a closer eye to the history.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.



'Nuff Said . 'F*X' those who disagree...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

" When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

--Leonardo da Vinci

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:47 PM

LIVEBROWN


Although im but a newb in this vast new land that is FFF.net, I would like to state that Zoid is by far the most well spoken, thoughtfull and outright humourous b'coat I have met. Cheers mate!

Got me laughing at work which is impressive by anyones standards.

Id also like to mention that I had a workmate who was importing pirated DVD's from asia and selling them at a profit, I mentioned to him that it might be unfortunate if the police found out and he didnt get to see his kids for a few years. Interestingly he ceased this activity shortly after my comment. There is just no excuse!

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 5:39 PM

TROUBLEMAKER


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
Howdy, kaneman.

I know I'm gonna regret this, but, I just gotta respond.

First, I reckon you're really just itching for a conflict of opinions. So, consider that hankerin' scratched, cuz here it comes...

Second, if you're gonna quote Haken, you might've at least included a link, so his words might be read in their original context, as opposed to excerpting them to fit your own context.

Third, a wrongdoer always looks to find a way to get someone else to join them in wrong-doing. Why not just break the law privately, in the comfort of your own psyche, and leave others out of it? Is it some sort of 'Misery loves company' impulse?

Fourth, if you could afford to legally buy the things you steal, would you? Is it simply about not having enough money? Or do you steal everything that comes within easy reach of your hot little fingers? (*zoid suddenly has mental image of kaneman exiting local supermarket, with vest stuffed full of beef roasts, a la 'Pinto' in "Animal House" (available from kaneman on CD-R, $5US)*)

Fifth, if it was your digital product that a quasi-kaneman was downloading, would you be more pissed if he subsequently sold it in quantity from his fleamarket stall/the back of his conversion van (with orange shag carpeting)? Or would you just chuckle to yourself, and privately congratulate the chap on being such a cunning entrepreneur?

These aren't trick questions. There's no gray area in which you operate. A group of high school friends sharing MP3s is against the law. But if they then burn CDs and sell them to all their classmates, that's a crime in every sense of the word.

If Haken, or anyone else, sips from the digital fountain, that's their business, as long as they accept the potential consequences should The Big Shark (law enforcement) gulp up their particular school of minnows, at random. But when kaneman, or Haken -- or anyone else -- starts profiting from that stream, then they're pissing in the communal watering hole and that hurts everyone.

Such piracy raises the prices for everyone, and makes it financially impossible for new works to be produced. Right now, there are a dearth of new games for the PC, because piracy has killed the goose that laid its stolen golden eggs. Pirating console games is a much tougher business, since the boxes must be modded (crack the case and solder a chip to the board, typically) in order to run writable media. Nobody's gonna get rich selling pirated PS2 or XBox games, and that's a fact.

The corporate response to piracy, then? Tons of new games for consoles, none for the PC. Furthermore, most of the console games could be ported to the PC, but what'd be the point? The game developer will never recoup their expenditures to do so, because pirates will rob them blind before the games ever hit the shelves.

It's wrong. You, kaneman, are wrong. What you do, what others like you do, is wrong. You're ruining a golden age of information for everyone else. Worse still, you're trying to encourage others -- naive people -- to join you, by using the tired old argument, "Everyone else is doing it". No, they're not.

If I knew who you were, I'd turn you in to the police.




Conflictingly,

zoid

P.S.
You could always stop what you're doing. Just a suggestion.
_________________________________________________

"Good luck in prison." -Hobson, Arthur



Hey, what the hell Zoid. How dare you bring logic and reason into a conversation like this.

I like how you dragged PC gaming into the subject. Its been a sore spot with me lately, due largely to dumbass pirates.

Its funny reading Kanes responses:
"{insert insult here}. I'm right because I havent been caught yet. Also, someone else does it and hasnt been caught yet, so there."

And just like any other criminal, when they are caught, they will whine and cry about cops, "its a victimless crime", "I'm innocent, I havent commited any crime", [ Nixon ]I'm not a crook[ /Nixon], and "there are {insert other criminal types} out there and you wasted time on me". Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you bad Kane, bad Kane. Whatcha gonna do, whatcha do when they come for you?

I wonder if the "well Haken said this" will hold up in court. I got jury duty Friday, I'll see if I can ask the judge about the Haken defense.

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:00 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I agree with you about copies if you're not making money off of them. I think it's funny a bunch of people who object to being pirates when their favorite show and heros are pirates. Bunch of Alliance types in here.

I already do this and I have turned on some people to the show who have bought the series legitamately for themselves. Of course, not on a grand scale as I think you're proposing.

I like the 1 show or one disk teaser idea. Perhaps a well made fan advertisement of the show on the disk as well. Make a hundred copies of em and stick them in magazines at the store. That would only cost somebody about 20 bucks worth of materials and their free time. No money wasted on postage and no government sore at you cause you were using them to deliver the product. Just wear some blue gloves when handling those CD's and nobody will know it was you putting them in the magazines.

I think you have a great idea here and it shouldn't have been beaten up as badly as some people in here did. Methinks it was your delivery though. It was pretty insulting, and that's pretty much the first rule against winning an arguement.


Maybe somebody should put some scaled down models of Firefly's up all over Boston with shiny LED lights. They won't know what the hell those were unless they watched the show and you'll probably shut the whole city down again...lol.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:44 AM

FISKMASEN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Maybe somebody should put some scaled down models of Firefly's up all over Boston with shiny LED lights. They won't know what the hell those were unless they watched the show and you'll probably shut the whole city down again...lol.



Now, that'd be fun. =)

"My cartridge fell out of my gun..." - Nathan Fillion

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:35 AM

KANEMAN


"Second, if you're gonna quote Haken, you might've at least included a link, so his words might be read in their original context, as opposed to excerpting them to fit your own context."


Go to his blog space here at FFF.net and read his blog 'sharereactor to shut down'.......make up your own mind. I never said that because Haken approves of pirating makes it okay for me to do it. I don't care. I do it because I can. I just thought the irony in a bunch of browncoats acting like b'coats don't do that kind of thing was...well, hilarious. Was there a better way to shove this irony in their faces than to let them read the words of the FFF.net GOD? I can't think of one....Good day.

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:38 PM

ZOID


...So, forced to fill my own request, here's the link to Haken's blog that kaneman cited: http://fireflyfans.net/showblog.asp?b=275

It's dated 20 Mar 2004 (that's right, 3 years ago) and here's the entire page, quoted in context. Please note that the reader commentaries/questions are in reverse order, with the earliest comment/question at the bottom of the page, and responses/later comments above:
Quote:

Sharereactor taken offline

Well, I'm bummed. It seems this bit of news has had a cascading effect and a few other directory servers and a result have taken their listings offline temporarily until the Sharereactor situation has been resolved.

Quote:

FRAUENFELD (kapo) Due to the suspicion of breach of copyright and trademark laws the cantonal judicial Inquiry department of Thurgau has taken down an Internet-Site that served as a link platform for filesharing offerings. A process concerning these matters against the 25 year old owner from Frauenfeld is underway.

The Internet-Site located in Frauenfeld was online for about 30 months and last had over 220.000 hits per day bevor it was taken offline by the Thurgau officials. The in search engines toprated site worked as a anchorpoint for links to downloads of copyright and trademark protectet games and movies that were offered on the filesharing network.

After a complaint from several large corporations, represented by the swiss association against piracy, the cantonal judicial inquiry department of Thurgau initiated an investigation, seized the servers in Frauenfeld and had the site taken offline.

The responsible owner, a 25 year old swiss proved to be very cooperative in explaining matters at hand. The inquiries continue and will take some time.



Shiny

Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 16:21

>Just visit www.bucktv.net and you'll see what I mean.

It says 'under construction'...

| Top
Haken

Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 06:57

Sharereactor and websites like it (such as www.bucktv.net) acts as a directory and contains links to files available on the eDonkey peer-to-peer file sharing network. Clicking on one of these links (much like clicking on a hyperlink in your browser) loads the file information into your eDonkey network client (eMule Plus is a good one). Once the information is loaded, your eDonkey network client then proceeds to download the file from the peer-to-peer network.

What makes these directories popular is that they contain links to television programs aired here in the US. So if you were to miss an episode of your favorite show (if you're in the US), you can simply download it and watch it. If you're not in the US, these network would be the only way for someone in a foreign country to watch an American television show. One could think of this as a poor man on-demand television network.

While the majority of these directory sites list television programs and movies, some do have listings for commercial software--such as Sharereactor.

As for whether this is legal or not, I'm not quite sure and perhaps someone else can shed some light. But the general feeling is that since they're only listing file info and not actually hosting the files themselves, it should be legal, which is why these directory sites continue to thrive on the net.

I hope I clarified this a bit for you by being not very technical.

Just visit www.bucktv.net and you'll see what I mean.

| Top
Serena

Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 06:01

Haken, can you translate this into English for me?


Of particular interest to me is that Haken seems to be mourning the loss of access to broadcast TV shows, some of which may be inaccessible to viewers on an international basis. He mentions that software can be downloaded on some of the file servers (not that he does download movies/TV series/software and then burn and sell them to make a profit); but that he is "not quite sure" if "this is legal or not" -- probably speaking from the sense that he's not sure if the owners of ShareReactor could face jail time or fines. I believe he knows that sharing anything other than content you yourself produced from all-original stock (original manuscripts, music, etc.) is prohibited by law. The only question in his mind is whether or not the directory server is illegal.

Okay, so having said all that -- and having been painted as a "Fed" because I feel thieves are ruining everything for everyone, just so they can make some easy money -- here's the deal:

1. Everyone breaks the law. In virtually every case, people trying to lead honest lives the best way they know how, are breaking some law or the other, every day. Maybe you have too many pets... Maybe you use your barbecue grill too close to the house/on the deck... Maybe you're like me and willfully break the law by always traveling 5 MPH over the posted speed limit, everywhere you go (except through school zones and residential districts, where children might unexpectedly dart out from between parked cars to chase a ball). Point is, everyone does break the law.

2. Trying to use an excuse like, "Everyone breaks the law" to cover up a crime that hurts everyone else is just lame. Example: "Yes, I shoplift everywhere I go, and yeah, I know it drives the prices up for everybody else...But, hey! That's your problem! If it gets too expensive for you, you can always do it the 'good and cheap' way, like I do. Steal anything you can, and then turn around and sell it to Goodwill for pennies on the dollar. You'll turn a tidy profit!"

3. Haken may or may not have 'bent' the rules and accessed some over-the-air televised content to which he had no legal rights; but I'd be willing to bet my last dollar that he never burned that content to CD/DVD writeables and then sold it for money. I don't know Haken personally. But criminals never do anything for free, let alone at their own expense -- and in a very public way -- strictly for the love of doing so. Something like FFFn would never occur to a thief...

4. One last important point: There's no such thing as 'bending' the law. You are either in compliance with the law, or you are breaking it. Ignorance of the law is not a valid defense, either. The main thing to remember is that if you're 'bending' the law, that you will get punished accordingly, if you get caught. For the millions who 'share' their files with others, that might mean an unfortunate encounter with The Big Shark (as I analogized in a previous post) swallowing up your entire shoal of minnows in one fell swoop. Being a little fish in a vast school is a proven survival technique...but it ain't foolproof. Being a meal-sized fish, however, the kind that attracts attention? You will get caught. It's just a matter of time, and strictly at the convenience of John Law. You may think you're smart enough to get away with it. But -- like 'military intelligence' -- the words 'criminal' and 'genius' do not belong in the same sentence together...

In closing, while he never asked me to, I feel compelled to defend Haken's honor. kaneman's attempt to paint our benefactor with the same brush as himself is a despicable attempt to justify his own crimes. And, of all people, Haken least deserves such character assassination.

I and a lot of other people owe Haken a lot. Go peddle your excrement elsewhere...



Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"You were truthful back in town. These are tough times. Hard to find yourself work. A man can get
a job, he might not look too close at what that job is. (to Mal) But a man learns all the details
of a situation like ours, well, then he has a choice." -Bourne

"I don't believe he does." -Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly, "The Train Job"

***Don't paint my BDHs as petty thieves, either***

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:51 PM

EARLY


of course...its all clear now. We suck! That explains a lot.

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 1:49 PM

CEDRIC


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I like the 1 show or one disk teaser idea. Perhaps a well made fan advertisement of the show on the disk as well. Make a hundred copies of em and stick them in magazines at the store. That would only cost somebody about 20 bucks worth of materials and their free time. No money wasted on postage and no government sore at you cause you were using them to deliver the product.



I've had a similar thought a number of times, Jack. If were in marketing at Fox, I would give away copies of Firefly Disc One for free, and I'd grant blanket permission to copy the first disc.

Many a times, I'll meet someone and tell them about Firefly. If only I had a copy of Disc One to hand them, I bet I'd have twice the converts I do now.

So, Cache, if you really want to do effective viral marketing and don't give a damn about the law, don't waste your money pirating the whole series. Disc One is enough to hook 90% of the folks that the whole series would get, and they'll still go buy the boxed set, thus increasing our chances of getting a sequel or a second series.



"Some things stay with you, 'til the day you die."
On the Drift: Music Inspired by Firefly and Serenity, now on sale at
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bedlambards/from/celtic

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:26 PM

SPACEGIRL32




"Some things stay with you, 'til the day you die."
On the Drift: Music Inspired by Firefly and Serenity, now on sale at
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bedlambards/from/celtic


Hey! I have this CD in my car right now!

Another good way to share the love for Firefly!



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Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:30 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


You sure sound like a FED.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:50 PM

KAIN


HA! Best laugh I've had in a while! Who hasn't had a few and said, "KILL EM ALL!" ? Oh, right rational people who can 'rcongnise' a spell check.
Thanks for wastin' 2 gorram minutes I'll never get back.

Kain

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:51 PM

CALHOUN


I've pretty much given up on a return of Firefly. I think now though is the time to make FOX pay for their crimes(cancelling Firefly) just cause I am vindictive like that.. I would welcome a plan to bring FOX down! I want FOX to be a rotting dismembered corpse! and to hell with its shareholders! if they were worth a damn they wouldnt have allowed all that transpired..

DEATH TO FOX! They will never EVER get another cent from me.


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Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:06 PM

JONGSSTRAW


The individual who began this thread is not at all worthy of any respect, as he came on board here showing none. He came on board with insults and disdain for the 'Coats.

Furthermore, now he apologizes after he got some "sympathy" posts on his behalf.....but he still has an insistant attitude of superiority & condescension, and it truly makes me wanna puke....as if?.how dare?..who the f?..what rock?..pleeeze!...go away!..how obnoxious!..what a frikkiin' 'tude!...That's how I feel...honest.

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:10 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


See dude?

You need a few lessons in Public Relations is all.

You have a good idea here, but your delivery sucked. I don't think your idea is going to get much play now that you've alienated your core audience.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:29 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Here is a suggestion that is humbly submitted for consideration to help the Firefly/Serenity cause.....

It is meant to either supplement the time-honored Browncoat tradition of loaning out DVD sets to enlighten the unfortunate & unlucky people without FF awareness, or possibly offer an addditional way to spread the glory of Firefly to the masses.....

1) What FFF doesn't have a zillion pictures saved in picture files?...pictures from all aspects of the shows, the movies, and the awesome stars themselves?

2) Well...put them on a portable hard drive, or download to a disc, e-mail, etc. and take it to work, or a friend's home.

3) Say to your friends at work, etc. that you'd like them to look at something...give it 5 MINUTES....a mere 5 MINUTES....tell them to look at this and try to understand that all the pics they are about to see are directly related to people, events, and everything Firefly, right up to current times.

4) I'd guess that most folks pictures would take a minimum of 30 minutes to view as a slideshow...but I'm saying we only need 5 to hook 'em...load it up with the best...the hottest...the grittiest ya got.

5) Then....ya start e-mailing a zip file of the best pics to your business contacts, friends, etc.

6) Then ya tell them IF they like what they saw in 5 minutes...then please read some reviews at Amazon or IMDB.

7) Then ya tell 'em all where to buy it, and how relatively in-expensive all this amazing entertainment will be.

I interact with people all over the country every day...probably at least ten times the number of folks in my personal life. All I'm doing is using the vast 'verse of photos and artwork in place of asking someone to sit & watch the actual show or movie for hours. I'm doing this Monday.....I have a good hard drive on loan from work and I'll download the whole shebang....can't wait to see & hear the reactions to our treasure.

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 5:08 PM

ZOID



6ixStringJack opined:
Quote:

You sure sound like a FED.

Actually, I sound like a guy who's sick and tired of lowlife scum preying on their own communities, for the sole advancement of their own greed.

It ain't about morality, and it ain't about respect for the law. It's about not being a f*cking cancer on the backside of humanity...

Succinctly,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 6:22 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION



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Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:09 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Yup... definately sound like a FED.

Respectfully,
6SJ

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:57 PM

LIVEBROWN


Think you got Fed mixed up with Intelligent.

By the way hows your logic working? You say that people who watch pirate shows should act like pirates? I guess your kinder teacher will be so proud of you monday morning...urghhh...



Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Yup... definately sound like a FED.

Respectfully,
6SJ

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack


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