Bad Firefly Review at Amazon! by rklenseth

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Bad Firefly Review at Amazon!

POSTED BY: RKLENSETH
UPDATED: Thursday, November 4, 2004 08:33
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 20353
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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:56 AM

Quote:
Right-wing paranoia in space, March 9, 2004
Reviewer: Elizabeth Durack (see more about me) from Madison, WI
The good: Nice special effects for a TV series, good production values, some clever humor, some fun but stereotypical characters, sexy women if you like that kinda thing.

The bad: This is an unapologetically violent show, and not in a silly "Xena" way. Han Solo is an example of a good guy who thinks he's a bad guy; Captain "Mal" is a bad guy who thinks he's a good guy--and he mostly fails for me as a sympathetic character. I like good guys. The "Serenity" gang are a bunch of amoral parasites. Even the preacher never much questions the thieving and killing.

The ugly: The concept is a group of Confederate holdouts after the Civil War. In a way it's the anti-Star Trek, like a group of violently independent right-wingers who can't stand the liberal Federation of Planets (or a present-day anti-government militia group). This show panders to the worst of the Right and apparently enjoyed a strong following from that sector, but the rest of us should let it pass into well-deserved obscurity.

I can't begin to say how wrong this is....

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:04 AM

CARTAGIA

Left wing nutcase...

I'm sure that anyone that disagrees with her is a Nazi in her opinion too.

Simon: I've never shot anyone before.

Book: I was there, son. I'm fair sure you haven't shot anyone yet.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:06 AM

Bizarre!

Ms Durack clearly has not so much a chip on her shoulder, as an entire potato farm.

Seems she's taken objection to Firefly without really watching much of it, and projected her own fears and insecurities onto it. Maybe she saw Mal shooting the alleged 'lawman' in 'Serenity', and decided there and then that it's only okay to shoot bounty hunters if a) They are threatening you personally, and b) They are aliens (cf. Han Solo analogy).

Also, correct me if I'm wrong here, but couldn't you reasonably compare the Serenity crew with survivors of a failed [Star Wars] rebel alliance? Hmm, apparently, comparing Mal and co. to fascists seems easier....

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:21 AM

ROCKETJOCK

Unfortunately, one of the drawbacks of the web is that anybody can post any damn thing they want. It's also the medium's strongest asset of course, which is why we're all here.

Amusing that the reviewer describes the crew of Serenity as "confederates after the civil war"; not even "a civil war", but "the civil war", which might give a casual reader the impression that Firefly is a historical drama set in the 1870's...*

As a member of the radical middle (IE Libertarian) I also find it amusing that nowadays any call for personal property rights or freedoms is categorized "right wing", while any call for social justice is similarly marginalized as "left wing"; as if slapping a label on a concept immediately dismisses it.

*Footquote: "Forward, into the past!" -- The Firesign Theatre

RocketJock

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:24 AM

MAUGWAI

Quote:
Left wing nutcase...

Whoa. Just because she accuses Firely of being right wing propganda does not make her a leftist. Of course, the classification as something as "right" or "left" is kind of annoying anyway, but some of us who lean to this "left" side find her comments just as silly as you do.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:24 AM

VICPALISADES

Shes clueless.

Best way to deal with these people is just smile, nod, pat them on the head and send them out for donuts.

"My mind is like a steel trap- rusty, and illegal in 37 states."

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:27 AM

RKLENSETH

Well, that is why I categorize liberals into groups;

Jeffersonian Liberals or better described as libertarians. They hate big or centralized government

OR

Socialist Liberals as this woman might be compared to. They love big and centralized government.

And both forms of Liberalism disagree with each other on many point.

And might I point out that the Confederates during the American Civil War were considered Liberal while the North was considered very Conservative.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:39 AM

CANTTAKESKY

This lady does make a point. Maybe Firefly should come with the following warning:

"Firefly may offend people who believe that despotic, centralized governments with strict social and economic regimentation are desirable. People who subscribe to autocratic ideologies such as facism or nazism will no doubt take offense at this show, as totalitarianism itself is portrayed as one of the main villains."

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:44 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Sad really.

I have yet to understand how anyone who is moderately intelligent can watch this show and make the illogical leap that this show is a smokescreen for "Confederates" hiding out after the "War". There may be a loose basis on a novel but it is not the Civil War.

To see her uninformed opinion on Mal is laughable. She obviously did not grasp the character concept or the inner struggle of Mal. She obviously went into this biased and simply put down her limited view on the net.

One bad, misinformed view will not tarnish all the glowing reviews from fans and critics alike of the series.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:47 AM

FORRESTWOLF

'Scuse me, 'scuse me, liberal coming through...

I think she's dead wrong. I love big government - please spend my tax dollars, and take more! But I love Firefly.

Not all governments are the same - I couldn't survive in the Communist USSR, or in North Korea, or likely even in modern China. Too liberal. Those governments were/are centralized, big, etc.

So when I don't like the Alliance, and identify with the Independents as I watch the show, I'm not repudiating OUR big government, just BAD big government.

Sorry, folks - I understand the Libertarian bent that can be attributed to Firefly, but as a "radical liberal", I love the show :)

And Mal's crew is GOOD, darn it. Even Jayne has his moments (not many mind you, but a few), particularly after Jayne's Paradise when he sees that guy take a hit for him.

Alliance: bad. Independents: good. Liberals? Libertarians? Not what the show's about, for me.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:59 AM

RKLENSETH

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
This lady does make a point. Maybe Firefly should come with the following warning:

"Firefly may offend people who believe that despotic, centralized governments with strict social and economic regimentation are desirable. People who subscribe to autocratic ideologies such as facism or nazism will no doubt take offense at this show, as totalitarianism itself is portrayed as one of the main villains."

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

You forgot things like Communist and other socialistic government styles.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:07 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS

I agree with her that it's kind of like an anti-Star Trek. However, I might point out that we really haven't been told the exact details of the Civil War that took place. What was it about? What started it? How long did it last? Where was Mal when it started? All important questions to determine the significance of the war. I might also point out that the Federation is not exactly seen as "evil" as much as it is sort of like Orwell's big brother.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:22 AM

HKCAVALIER

It's TOTALLY the anti-Trek! I look at the way our blatant militarism and empire building is totally whitewashed by the mainstream press and I get to thinking, "What if Star Trek were a propaganda film for a much less squeeky clean regime, than we're shown?" Well, we'd have Firefly, that's what.

(Do I need to appologize for calling our current U.S. foreign policy "militaristic" and "empire building?" Gosh, I hope not. I hope the supporters of George W. are at least honest with themselves enough to be out about that.)

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:29 AM

KILLJOY

the fact that she's from madison, wi is a pretty good indication that she's probably an extreme leftist. being from that area, i know that madison tends to be pretty crazy in that regard.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:33 AM

CUDA

Quote:
Originally posted by BlackoutNights:
I might point out that we really haven't been told the exact details of the Civil War that took place. What was it about? What started it?

I thought it was made clear in the show that it was about unifying the planets under one government, versus leaving them independently governed.

For example: Browncoats are known as independents, and various other people make comments about being pro-unification

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:34 AM

KNIBBLET

Quote:
Reviewer: Elizabeth Durack ... from Madison, WI

Well there's the problem folks. She's from Mad-town Sconnie.

Madison is home to the University of Wisconsin and its greatest claims to fame are the invention of the beer bong and drunken pontificating. You would be hard-pressed to find a sober person amongst this student population.

Actually, those Madtown folks did come up with "The Onion" so a handful aren't complete blathering idiots.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:45 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS

Sure unifying the planets was a part of it, but that's not the whole story. It never is. Who or what planet(s) started the Federation? And which planet or planets were most opposed? There's a big story there. We're, luckily, hearing the story about a rogue smuggler who fought on the losing side. I would love to hear more about the war.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 7:09 AM

ARAWAEN

I have to partially defend this woman. After seeing "Train Job" when it aired as the pilot I had a similar reaction. It struck me as pro-confederacy, anti-government, and had amoral (or nearly so) thieves as the protagonists. While I would never have criticized the whole series based on this observation, I didn't particularly like it an didn't watch another episode until "Out of Gas."

"Out of Gas" was awesome and brought my overall opinion to neutral. I didn't get to see another episode before the series was cancelled. I was given the DVD set as a gift and was converted in full upon watching the series in order.

That said, I must condemn her political labelling, which is unfortunately too common in the United States (I cannot speak for other nations, but I hope they are not so label happy).

Why would the right-wing be pre-disposed towards this show? Why wouldn't the left-wing? The show had legalized prostitution, an inter-racial relationship, tolerance of same-sex couplings, equality of women in employment and on the battlefield. While not all conservatives are against these, they are hardly on the 'right-wing' platform and surely not on any extreme right stance that could be characterized as having paranoia.

If anything I thought the show had a rather libertarian feel. This notion that you are either (a) or (b) is getting ridiculous. The polarization of the American political system is at the point that the suggestion of a 'third way' is tantamount to treason or something. I guess it is the "If your not with us, your against us" attitude.

I gave up on any politicized discussion on the internet (except when I get really angry or foolish) because I got tired of being called a 'communist' everytime I suggested that 'social justice' is a valid concern or that I was 'anti-woman' because I believe a fetus is a living person.

I don't mean to upset or offend anyone with this post. Just expressing myself or maybe I having one of my foolish episodes. I am just so tired of the rhetoric that passes for political and intellectual discussion, it leaks into everything for me, even apparantly my enjoyment of all-things Firefly.

Arawaen

Um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm Angry. And I'm Armed.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 7:15 AM

BLINKER

Quote:
Captain "Mal" is a bad guy who thinks he's a good guy

Which is why his words in an early version of the pilot include "Score one for the bad guys," and his actions include returning much-needed medicine to the poor, enduring torture and death for it, and never once looking back. I think I understand the character a lot better now. Thanks, Ms. Durack!

_________
Sliders: Gate Haven - http://slidersweb.net/blinker

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 7:23 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Arawaen wrote:

Quote:
Why would the right-wing be pre-disposed towards this show? Why wouldn't the left-wing? The show had legalized prostitution, an inter-racial relationship, tolerance of same-sex couplings, equality of women in employment and on the battlefield. While not all conservatives are against these, they are hardly on the 'right-wing' platform and surely not on any extreme right stance that could be characterized as having paranoia.

If anything I thought the show had a rather libertarian feel. This notion that you are either (a) or (b) is getting ridiculous. The polarization of the American political system is at the point that the suggestion of a 'third way' is tantamount to treason or something. I guess it is the "If your not with us, your against us" attitude.

I agree. The show has a livertarian feel to it, an how this person could state it would appeal to the "right" is beyond me.

It seems to me she only watched one or two episodes, going into those w/ a predetermined judgement, and then posted her so called opinion on the net.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:00 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS

ARAWAEN-

Great post! Wow! I wholeheartedly agree with your political stance that, in America, those with strong political opinions classify you as either "left" or "right" wing - whichever is opposite to what "they" are - unless you agree with every point they believe in.

That kind of attitude is so annoying.

For instance, I think abortion is wrong. If you don't want a baby, either (and preferably because I guarantee it'll work) abstain or practice safe-sex. On the other hand, I'm against the death penalty. How can we expect people to not commit murder when, as a society, we say it's ok to murder someone if they deserve it? In other words, our justice system condones it in certain circumstances.
I also am against taking away someone's firearms, but support forcing the gun manufacturers to place some sort of mechanism, such as a fingerprint code or something, to prevent anyone but the owner from firing the weapon.

I'm for a fair tax system. Everybody should pay the same percentage, regardless of our economic stance. A standard percantage still gauantees the wealthy pay more, because they make more - but don't make them pay a higher percentage because they're successful. On the other hand, I'm against homestead exemptions that freeze property assets and force someone to pay more for equally valued land just because they are newer to the community.

Am I right to think these things? You bet your ass I am. Would these practices make the world a better place? Maybe, maybe not. It's not "moderate" thinking, that assumes we have to trade one ideal to achieve another, it's "independant" thinking.

There's a lot more similar thoughts out there than people know. And in the end, it's us who decide who's going to hold political offices, because we're not limited by political party preferences.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:28 AM

CARTAGIA

Quote:
Originally posted by maugwai:

Whoa. Just because she accuses Firely of being right wing propganda does not make her a leftist. Of course, the classification as something as "right" or "left" is kind of annoying anyway, but some of us who lean to this "left" side find her comments just as silly as you do.

Leaning to the left is a bit different than what I was accusing her of being. I'm certain that on some issues, you and I will even agree. I'm saying that she's a left winger. Which would place her to the extreme left.

Even then, I'm certain that there are some very rational people to the extreme left. I may not agree with a word they say, but I wouldn't question their sanity.

This lady is obviously a nutjob. I have no problem dismissing her and her opinions out of hand.

I guess what I am trying to say, is that you can be left wing, you can be a nutjob, but she is both.

Simon: I've never shot anyone before.

Book: I was there, son. I'm fair sure you haven't shot anyone yet.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:42 AM

ECMORGAN69

Quote:
Originally posted by VicPalisades:
Shes clueless.

Best way to deal with these people is just smile, nod, pat them on the head and send them out for donuts.

"My mind is like a steel trap- rusty, and illegal in 37 states."

Only drawback to that plan is that her type probably get the niu shi donuts made from soy meal or some such because it's "better for you."

They can have my "Firefly" DVDs when they pry them from my cold, dead fingers....

Oh yeah,

you, FOX TV!!

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:58 AM

ECMORGAN69

Quote:
Originally posted by Arawaen:
I have to partially defend this woman. After seeing "Train Job" when it aired as the pilot I had a similar reaction. It struck me as pro-confederacy, anti-government, and had amoral (or nearly so) thieves as the protagonists. While I would never have criticized the whole series based on this observation, I didn't particularly like it an didn't watch another episode until "Out of Gas."

"Out of Gas" was awesome and brought my overall opinion to neutral. I didn't get to see another episode before the series was cancelled. I was given the DVD set as a gift and was converted in full upon watching the series in order.

That said, I must condemn her political labeling, which is unfortunately too common in the United States (I cannot speak for other nations, but I hope they are not so label-happy).

Why would the right-wing be pre-disposed towards this show? Why wouldn't the left-wing? The show had legalized prostitution, an inter-racial relationship, tolerance of same-sex couplings, equality of women in employment and on the battlefield. While not all conservatives are against these, they are hardly on the 'right-wing' platform and surely not on any extreme right stance that could be characterized as having paranoia.

If anything I thought the show had a rather libertarian feel. This notion that you are either (a) or (b) is getting ridiculous. The polarization of the American political system is at the point that the suggestion of a 'third way' is tantamount to treason or something. I guess it is the "If your not with us, your against us" attitude.

I gave up on any politicized discussion on the internet (except when I get really angry or foolish) because I got tired of being called a 'communist' everytime I suggested that 'social justice' is a valid concern or that I was 'anti-woman' because I believe a fetus is a living person.

I don't mean to upset or offend anyone with this post. Just expressing myself or maybe I having one of my foolish episodes. I am just so tired of the rhetoric that passes for political and intellectual discussion, it leaks into everything for me, even apparantly my enjoyment of all-things Firefly.

Arawaen

Um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm Angry. And I'm Armed.

Very nice post! I whole-heartedly agree that this program has a Libertarian bias to it, if anything. It is just easier for others to say, "It's this" or, "It's that", rather than just relax and enjoy it.

I also totally agree that there is far too much politicizing on the web, even in our little den of Browncoats here. I've seen athread or two that go that way. Hell, I've even lobbed a few Apples of Discord into the fray myself when my Niu Shi Radar kicks on. But, I agree that that stuff has it's own place. Boring, political websites

Anyway, I hope the left-wing nut who started this thread enjoys the two Sean Hannity books and any anti-Clinton book I can lay hands on that I'm sending to her for review

They can have my "Firefly" DVDs when they pry them from my cold, dead fingers....

Oh yeah,

you, FOX TV!!

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:33 AM

KALIMEERI

Quote:
Originally posted by rklenseth:
Quote:
Right-wing paranoia in space, March 9, 2004
Reviewer: Elizabeth Durack (see more about me) from Madison, WI
The good: Nice special effects for a TV series, good production values, some clever humor, some fun but stereotypical characters, sexy women if you like that kinda thing.

The bad: This is an unapologetically violent show, and not in a silly "Xena" way. Han Solo is an example of a good guy who thinks he's a bad guy; Captain "Mal" is a bad guy who thinks he's a good guy--and he mostly fails for me as a sympathetic character. I like good guys. The "Serenity" gang are a bunch of amoral parasites. Even the preacher never much questions the thieving and killing.

The ugly: The concept is a group of Confederate holdouts after the Civil War. In a way it's the anti-Star Trek, like a group of violently independent right-wingers who can't stand the liberal Federation of Planets (or a present-day anti-government militia group). This show panders to the worst of the Right and apparently enjoyed a strong following from that sector, but the rest of us should let it pass into well-deserved obscurity.

I can't begin to say how wrong this is....

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

"Woman, you are completely off your nut."

...no place I can be...

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Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:54 AM

VICPALISADES

Quote:
Originally posted by ecmorgan69:
Quote:
Originally posted by VicPalisades:
Shes clueless.

Best way to deal with these people is just smile, nod, pat them on the head and send them out for donuts.

"My mind is like a steel trap- rusty, and illegal in 37 states."

Only drawback to that plan is that her type probably get the niu shi donuts made from soy meal or some such because it's "better for you."

They can have my "Firefly" DVDs when they pry them from my cold, dead fingers....

Oh yeah, you, FOX TV!!

HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"My mind is like a steel trap- rusty, and illegal in 37 states."

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:24 AM

ARAWAEN

Quote:
I'm for a fair tax system. Everybody should pay the same percentage, regardless of our economic stance. A standard percantage still gauantees the wealthy pay more, because they make more - but don't make them pay a higher percentage because they're successful. On the other hand, I'm against homestead exemptions that freeze property assets and force someone to pay more for equally valued land just because they are newer to the community.

This first part should not be construed as being as pro- or con- with regard to the issue of flat taxes. It is merely an explanation of a perceived misconception regarding how taxes work. Nor should be interpreted as an assumption that BlackOutNights has made this misconception.

There seems to be a misconception among the majority of Americans with regards to how graduated income taxes work. Graduated does not mean that the rich pay a higher percentage than the poor in taxes as is commonly portrayed. Everybody pays the same rate in fact, it is just that rate increases for that portion of your income which falls into higher brackets. I think an illustration is the best way to understand it. Let us enter hypothetical land for a moment. We will establish 3 tax brackets, one at $0-$20,000.00, one at $20,001-$50,000.00 and one at $50,001-$100,000.00. We will set our tax rates at 10% for the first bracket, 20% for the second and 30% for the third. A person that makes $15,000.00 will pay 10% in taxes (or $1,500.00), the person that makes $60,000 will pay 10% on the first $20,000.00 (or $2,000.00) plus 20% on the next $30,000.00 (or $6,000.00) and 30% on the last $10,000.00 (or $3,000.00). The person that makes $60,000 is paying a total of $11,000 in taxes under this system, not $18,000.00 as would be the case if they were paying 30% on all their income as is commonly perceived.

The thinking behind taxes in general is that everybody in the community is obligated to financially support the community according to his or her ability. Graduated income taxes mean the more a person’s income falls into the surplus/luxury range the more that person can afford to contribute to the well being of the community as a whole. Each citizen pays the same rates, but some people make more surplus money than others. Some people agree with this and some don’t, but it is not a case of the wealthy being taxed at a higher rate.

The following part is personal conjecture.

I think the greater failing of the American income tax system is with regards to tax incentives (i.e. deductions and the like). These are an attempt to control (usually with good intent) the American populace, to encourage them engage in certain types of activities. I believe that they create an overly complex tax system that makes it impossible to adequately police or regulate. Some people managed to take advantage of the incentives and loopholes to the point where they didn’t have to pay taxes at all (not the intent of incentives as the belief was that all people have a responsibility towards the community), so the politicians tacked on an alternative minimum tax, again adding complexity and creating confusion and loopholes.

I recognize the importance encouraging certain choices from citizens, like going to college and giving to charity, etc. I also recognize the effectiveness of using greed to encourage people and corporations to do the right thing. But I also feel that using a vice to encourage virtue is a slippery slope with dire ramifications.

Um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm Angry. And I'm Armed.

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:36 AM

DRAGONLORD

I read her review. She can rotate on this.

It's her opinion and she's welcome to it, but if you look at the majority of reviews, they support Firefly.

Respectfully,

Dragon Lord Tibbetts

"Quando Omni Plunkus Moritati"
(when all else fails, play dead!)

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:40 AM

LUNATIKAT

Hi. Can anyone direct me to a message with the info about the DVD Easter egg. I've lost the information. Thanks.

lunatikat - not just for breakfast anymore

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:44 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lunatikat:
Hi. Can anyone direct me to a message with the info about the DVD Easter egg. I've lost the information. Thanks.

lunatikat - not just for breakfast anymore

Go to special features. Highlight "Joss sings..", but do not click it. push your directional control to the left and the squiggly pattern on the left side of the screen will highlight. click on it. This will play Adam Baldwin in his Jayne hat singing the "Hero of Canton".

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:54 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS

And, I might add, the 10-percent bracket has increased. :D I agree the tax system has become too complex. I used to do ours myself, but now calculating dividends and other source of income is too much of a headache. Much better to pay someone to do it.

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:54 AM

WREN

The woman is an idiot!!! However there are a few of them out there. I found this while trawling round the web:

by: Mike Sampson

OK, so let me get this straight cause I'm still a little flummoxed by the whole thing. There was this show, "Firefly," on Fox that was cancelled after 11 episodes cause ratings were so low. It was free and people still weren't watching it. So now they've decided to make a movie out of said TV series with the hope that people who wouldn't watch it when it was free will now pay $10 to see it. Hmmm... Yes, "Firefly" will officially be a movie. Universal has greenlit SERENITY, the feature film adaptation of the TV series by Joss Whedon ("Buffy the Vampire Slayer"). Whedon will direct the film from his own script and all the original cast members from the series will return for the film. Filming is scheduled to begin this June with a 2005 release planned. Whedon had hoped to bring "Firefly" back to TV after it was cancelled and shopped the series to other networks. Unable to reach a deal to return the show to television, he turned his attention to writing a feature and successfully conned, I mean, sold Universal on the idea. Like the X-FILES movie the film will look to satisfy fans (??) of the series while still appealing to the audience who never saw "Firefly." Another of Whedon's TV shows, "Angel," was recently cancelled, which may mean a film could be on the way for that too. Who knows in this topsy-turvy world? Black is white. Up is down.... Up next at Universal pictures is a feature film version of the cancelled TV shows "Emeril," "Cop Rock," and "Suddenly Susan." (Just kidding. I hope.)

It was at - http://www.joblo.com/index.php?id=3724

At the bottom of the page you can discuss the article in their forum. As the site claims to have 13872 members it might be worth a few of us going in and setting them straight.

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Arawaen:
I think the greater failing of the American income tax system is with regards to tax incentives (i.e. deductions and the like). These are an attempt to control (usually with good intent) the American populace, to encourage them engage in certain types of activities. I believe that they create an overly complex tax system that makes it impossible to adequately police or regulate. Some people managed to take advantage of the incentives and loopholes to the point where they didn’t have to pay taxes at all (not the intent of incentives as the belief was that all people have a responsibility towards the community), so the politicians tacked on an alternative minimum tax, again adding complexity and creating confusion and loopholes.

I've had to maintain software like that!!!

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:57 AM

DRAGONLORD

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:Go to special features. Highlight "Joss sings..", but do not click it. push your directional control to the left and the squiggly pattern on the left side of the screen will highlight. click on it. This will play Adam Baldwin in his Jayne hat singing the "Hero of Canton".

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

BrownCoat,

Is there a website for these little "easter egg" things? I've seen my dvd's 15 times since I recieved it in early March. Still don't know how to look for those pesky little "eggs".

Respectfully,

Dragon Lord Tibbetts

Summer: Jane's a girls name
Jane: Well I ain't no girl! I can prove it!
Simon: I'm trying to picture you more vulgar... but, I can't...

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:47 AM

SASJA

The latest review at imdb.com is also less than sparkling - please, someone who hasn't already added a review go and add your more sound view on the matter to bump it a little down :-)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303461/usercomments

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:59 AM

WREN

Quote:
Originally posted by Dragonlord:
Quote:
Is there a website for these little "easter egg" things?

I use http://movieweb.com

Just type the film name in the 'search the site' box, select dvd eggs from the drop menu next to it and hit find it.

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:07 PM

KNIBBLET

I've printed off a few pages of that site, thanks Wren.

Now, I've got to go home and play with every stinking one of my 200 DVDs to ensure I've found all the easter eggs.

You'll see Knibblet adding eggs to that site soon.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:24 PM

SHADOWVESSEL

You know, I don't even know the definitions of a "right-winger" or a "left-winger". I've never been into politics enough to F'n care. I guess I just depend too much on people's actions instead of their beliefs in order to get a decent ascession on 'em. And I never try to see past the people around me whenever possible.

Why? Isn't that a closed-off view of the world?

Yes. And I'll tell you why...

I only have the ability to change my immediate surroundings. Yeah, yeah. Vote. Send Greenpiece and Sally Struthers a check. Let's start a F'n riot.

Truth is this: I'm a working man trying to save my wife and I. If Sally Struthers wants to help that starving kid out of the mudhole so bad then why doesn't she F'n pick the kid up out of the damn mudhole herself! How do I even know my check gets to that starving kid? Don't get me wrong, if I see someone in pain I do what I can to help. My wife has a terminally ill disease that hasn't gotten a damn bit of help until recently now that the F'n thing has her bed-ridden! Do I blame Bush for that? No. I blame the people who have abused the system for selfish or criminal purposes for so long that it's near impossible for people who actually need help to get it. He's one man in a group of thousands who govern us. To be honest, the President isn't the one with the real power anyway. But I'll vote for him. Thanks to him Saddam is finally out of F'n power. Saddam financed the SOB's who took out the Trade Center, I think he got off easy. Oh yeah, and I'm a little pissed about the Confederacy gettin' such a bad rep', too. That's just another example of history being written by the victors. I know they did bad things, but so did the Union and every other side in every other war ever fought throughout history ( anybody remember the Crusades? ).

OK, I'm sorry for such a rant and I do apologize if I offended anyone. I never talk about this kind of stuff so it must've been some pent up rage or something. But I won't take it back. I think the point I was originally supposed to be making can be summed up in a line from Angel:

"If nothing we do really matters, than the only thing that matters is what we do."

'Nuff said.

Oh yeah, and to the pieces of fei yoo who gave Firefly such a bitterly sarcastic and, heh-heh, ignorant view of a show that has generated such a fan-base, a special edition DVD set, and motion picture in, technically, only 11 episodes ( since the other three weren't seen until the DVD release ),

And you're retarded.

Let's steer clear of the politics and stick to the Firefly here folks. Otherwise, take me out to the black.

"I'll be in my bunk."

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:24 PM

SHADOWVESSEL

And you're retarded.

Let's steer clear of the politics and stick to the Firefly here folks. Otherwise, take me out to the black.

"I'll be in my bunk."

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:38 PM

MCNALLY

Quote:
Originally posted by ShadowVessel:
Let's steer clear of the politics and stick to the Firefly here folks.

We can steer clear of the politics, but let's not give up on the donuts yet. We can stick to talking about Firefly and donuts.

Man, Boston Creams are awesome.
And coincidentally, so is Firefly!

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:15 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by Arawaen:

If anything I thought the show had a rather libertarian feel. This notion that you are either (a) or (b) is getting ridiculous. The polarization of the American political system is at the point that the suggestion of a 'third way' is tantamount to treason or something. I guess it is the "If your not with us, your against us" attitude.

Oh, I quite agree. As L. Neil Smith pointed out, any show whose lead characters are smugglers, soldiers of fortune, and prostitutes, can hardly help being Libertarian in nature.

The polarization of american politics is an alternating source of disgust and amusement to me. The worst part is that so few people even realize alternatives are available.

True story: Some years ago, following a move, I picked up a voter registration card at a Republican booth at the county fair; as I walked away, the woman at the booth told me I didn't have to waste postage mailing it; she could take it.

I told her that I wouldn't feel right about that, since I wasn't registering as a Republican.

She replied that was fine, because the democrats had a booth one aisle over.

I told her I wasn't registering democratic either.

She looked confused, then got angry. "Well, you have to be one or the other, you know."*

The worst part is: This is someone who at least cared enough to volunteer.

*Footquote: "You have to vote for one of us. It's a two-party system!" -- Kang (Or possibly Kodos.)

RocketJock

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:31 PM

INVISIBLEGREEN

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:
She looked confused, then got angry. "Well, you have to be one or the other, you know."*

The worst part is: This is someone who at least cared enough to volunteer.

OMG! That is insane. Don't Republicans and Democrats realize that some people actually like to make up their own minds on important issues? (I am a moderate.)[no offense to either party]

It's true that there's only two parties with any real power, which is a total shame in my opinion.

I'm registered to vote, though w/o any particular party affiliation, but I haven't yet--I just turned 18 in June. And since I haven't bothered to learn anything about this year's political campaign, I probably won't end up voting this year.

Oh, and I don't necessarily think I'd call the the Libertarian. I dislike how the back of the DVD box set calls the government "totalitarian." This is untrue. The gov't in the Fireflyverse was modeled after the US gov't, which certainly is not totalitarian. It's just that the main characters are thieves--a lot of the work they do is illegal--of course the gov't's gonna be after them.

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:44 PM

POPEBOB

Quote:
Originally posted by Arawaen:
Why would the right-wing be pre-disposed towards this show? Why wouldn't the left-wing? The show had legalized prostitution, an inter-racial relationship, tolerance of same-sex couplings, equality of women in employment and on the battlefield. While not all conservatives are against these, they are hardly on the 'right-wing' platform and surely not on any extreme right stance that could be characterized as having paranoia.

Oh bless you child ,and all of you like her(sorry if yer male it just sounds like a female name), for identifying the true threat at hand... close-mindedness.

This woman, who wrote this appalingly uninsightful review, has truly chosen her side of the fence, built a brick wall and defensive perimiter and armed herself with enough ignorance to baffle a class of 2nd graders, as to what the HELL is she thinking. I can see certain points she makes, such as Mal being BAD. But that point is quickly shot down with scenes like him visiting Kaylee in the infirmary in Serenity. Or how about almost every action he takes in "the Message"? There is far more GOOD in Mal than bad. He's just unscroupulous. He just cares about the only thing he has left.. his Crew and Ship.. and nearly nothing else. Just because he's a criminal in most Governmental eyes, doesnt make him bad.. just Illegal.

An example of a Bad guy would be Niska and his torturous punishments, or Early with his accute powers of inflicting Fear and Pain on people. I hardly think that Mal falls into this category. I don't even think Jayne falls into this category.. he's just a selfish opportunist. As far as Book being counted amongst them, well i have my own thoughts about him.. and quite frankly i agree with Early.."that ain't no Shepherd".

Again.. keep those minds a rolling along the hills of contemplation kids, and bless you for your much needed ability to see beyond the static of fascism.

--------------------------------------------------
You see that man hangin' out of the spaceship with the realy big gun? Now I ain't sayin' it wasn't easy to find you, but it was a little out of our way and he didn't want to come in the first place. So realy it's his will you ought to be twartin'. -Mal "Safe"

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Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:57 PM

POPEBOB

Quote:
Originally posted by InvisibleGreen:
[BIt's true that there's only two parties with any real power, which is a total shame in my opinion.

I'm registered to vote, though w/o any particular party affiliation, but I haven't yet--I just turned 18 in June. And since I haven't bothered to learn anything about this year's political campaign, I probably won't end up voting this year.

Thats good man. Don't vote if you don't know the depth of the choice before you. I believe that more important to our american "Right to Vote" is our american "Right not to Vote". As for the parties.. it's a damn shame that only 2 of them have power.. not that the party i registered for( and may have been subsequently flagged by government agencies) was the Discordian party. As of right now I may be the only member. But thats not the point. the point is I HAVE THAT GORRAMN CHOICE!!

BTW I plan to run for Pres in 2012. I'm not gonna campaign, But i'm ready for anyone who wants to query me for where i stand on any given issue. Who knows.. maybe i'll end up getting Elected and then have my votes recounted too

Ahhhh.. Curse you sudden but inevitable betrayal!!

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Friday, March 12, 2004 3:05 AM

ARAWAEN

Quote:
Originally posted by PopeBob:
...the party i registered for( and may have been subsequently flagged by government agencies) was the Discordian party. As of right now I may be the only member.

You're opposed to Accordians?

Arawaen

Um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm Angry. And I'm Armed.

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Friday, March 12, 2004 5:20 AM

HPUFFIN

I'm guessing that this reviewer has never had to run for her life or *actively* defend her values (if she has any). If she had done either of these things, she could not fail to identify with the impassioned valuers that are Serenity's crew.

Violence has a *context*: Mal and the others only use it in self-defense; they are never the initiators.

The "amoral parasite" presented is the Alliance. The government has left the independent man like Mal no alternative: he either has to turn outlaw or become an Alliance slave. His decision to remain independent is completely moral, given the context.

"We're just happy to be doing good works..."

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Friday, March 12, 2004 7:08 AM

DRAGONLORD

Quote:
Originally posted by Wren:

I use http://movieweb.com

Just type the film name in the 'search the site' box, select dvd eggs from the drop menu next to it and hit find it.

Thanks Wren.

Dragon Lord

Summer: Jane's a girls name
Jane: Well I ain't no girl! I can prove it!
Simon: I'm trying to picture you more vulgar... but, I can't

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Friday, March 19, 2004 8:20 AM

LUNATIKAT

Dear Browncoat1,
Couldn't remember if I ever said thanks. THANK YOU VER' MUCH!

lunatikat - at home with the stars (cuz flaming gas bags ARE my peeps)

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Friday, March 19, 2004 9:11 AM

CONNORFLYNN

Wow..don't waste the only opportunity you have to make a difference. Voting is one of the few rights we as citizens of the US have, that really means anything in regards to the Nation.

Don't mean to preach..it's just hard to see someone say they don't want to vote because they don't care. Scares me really..take the time to at least see who the candidates are (there are more then 2 candidates..though Nader still remains a numbnut) after all there is alil over 7 months till the presidential vote. You have nothing to lose..except your political voice. Those who don't vote..don't deserve to complain or commend the status of our country. I take pride in my country because we have those said rights.

I think that really applies to any citizen of any country who has the right to vote.. What do you have to lose?

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Friday, March 19, 2004 10:26 AM

ARAWAEN

Quote:
though Nader still remains a numbnut.

I don't agree with about half the Nader platform, but he seems well above the major two candidates in 'numbnut status' to me.

I don't know of any candidate beyond Bush and Kerry that are going to be on the ballots in all 50 states this coming election. While it would cause untold problems (and hence I couldn't really support it), sometimes I wish we had a binding None of the Above option on the ballot. Especially when so many states don't even get to have a say in the primaries, with candidates dropping out after the first few. I think the primary should be held on a single day, with a media black-out for 24 hours on the results.

Then again, I am the type of numbnut who would like to see campaigning limited to 2 weeks before the election, media stations obligated (as part of their civic duty) to show debates and ads, and public funding of campaigns (with very low caps) and moderators who call the candidates when they lie, distort or obfuscate an issue.

It is not like 10 months of distortion ads, slander attacks, character assassination and spewing of rhetoric actually helps anybody make an informed decision. Both sides engage in it, both sides attack the other side for doing it. In my mind it makes them both unworthy to hold the office.

Arawaen

Um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm Angry. And I'm Armed.

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Friday, March 19, 2004 11:08 AM

CONANTHEBARBIE

I'll give our dim-witted reviewer this much: she got an entire fan board into a great political discussion.

If all progress depends on the unreasonable, she is really going to get us somewhere.

I wonder if she's posted similar reviews on most of the "B" horror flicks I love... "Michael Myers is a bad man. Only right-wing fanatics could appreciate this movie. It has him punishing innocent teenagers for engaging in premarital sex."

--------------------------------------------
"Play nice with the other kids...unless one of the other kids wanna fight; then you have to kick the other kids' butt."
-Mushu in "Mulan"

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