#2 Ponders Anakin versus River - who would win by FutureMrsFIllion

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

#2 Ponders Anakin versus River - who would win

POSTED BY: FUTUREMRSFILLION
UPDATED: Thursday, April 19, 2007 14:44
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Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:11 PM

My last post was in response to Zoids last one. I thought I had quoted it but I quess my sidekick messed up or something.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:52 PM

TEFFT1RA

Ok Jedi arn't like Neo in the Matrix. The force is't about outright alteration of "reality."

Moving things takes an amount of concentration. Thats how Yoda got distracted with stopping the pillar falling. Jedi couldn't just stop a field of bullets. As someone said above many were killed by overwhelming firepower.

Also they don't deflect blaster bolts by eye; they use the force to feel where the bolts are going to be. Remember Luke blindfolded when he was first learning it.

Can't say river would win for sure and depends at what stage in the story each of them are. But here is something to consider.

Whineakin vs. Obi-Wan -> Obi-Wan
Obi-Wan vs. Jenga Fett -> stalemate
Jenga Fett vs. River -> River

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:58 PM

NUMBER2

Jango Fett vs. Mace Windu->Mace Windu

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:59 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

As much of a whiney little pissant that Anakin is, he's still a Jedi. Padawan or full blown Jedi he has The Force behind him. As Number2 wrote, what use are guns or River's (so called) psychic power (it's been implied she has it by Mal and the others, and that may well be, but to the length and strength of The Force?) I know most of the answers have been biased towards River because, well let's face it this is a Firefly fan site, if this were a Star Wars fansite hardly anyone (if at all) would be rooting for River. But as much as I like her character better than Anakin (hell who but Amadala could like that whiner?) The Force and the extensive training he's had makes him far more likely to win.

Now having said that, and seeing her defeat an entire room full of creatures that would make even Obi Wan soil his robe, with only a pair of cutting weapons, if she got her hands on a Light Saber..... then I'd say GAME ON! BUT, little orphan Anie

would still have the upperhand with The Force. Just.

Now if it were Luke...... pooor poor little River. Unlike his father Luke DID manage to fullfill his destiny as a Jedi and not dissapoint. Hell, maybe he'd just drop his saber, grab her face, probe her mind and clear that rattled little brain of hers.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

"We can be Heroes.... if just for one day."[/]

~*Peter* Peter*; power *re-peater*~

What do you mean I have to wait
9 fricken days for Heroes?

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Sunday, April 15, 2007 2:47 PM

J5550123

I think Anakin would win, because he is Darth Vader.

"Sorry About The Mess."

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Monday, April 16, 2007 10:53 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by tefft1ra:
Ok Jedi arn't like Neo in the Matrix. The force is't about outright alteration of "reality."

Moving things takes an amount of concentration. Thats how Yoda got distracted with stopping the pillar falling. Jedi couldn't just stop a field of bullets. As someone said above many were killed by overwhelming firepower.

Also they don't deflect blaster bolts by eye; they use the force to feel where the bolts are going to be. Remember Luke blindfolded when he was first learning it.

Can't say river would win for sure and depends at what stage in the story each of them are. But here is something to consider.

Whineakin vs. Obi-Wan -> Obi-Wan
Obi-Wan vs. Jenga Fett -> stalemate
Jenga Fett vs. River -> River

It takes some amount of concentration, but Vader had a multitude of objects flying around in Empire. He seems to have plenty of concentration and brute force going for him. A force push effect could send bullets flying right back at River if he wanted.

Vader also had the power to absorb blaster shots in Empire. If blaster shots are just energy then Einstein says Vader can absorb bullets if he wants. e = mc^2

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Monday, April 16, 2007 9:06 PM

OHSM333

But we're not talking about Vader, we're talking about Anakin when he was a little pussy. I think that it all depends on the setting and circumstances of the fight. If you think about it, a lightsaber would not be able to deflect bullets (if you really think about it, this fight would never happen since neither of them exist and neither do the Star Wars form of lightsabers). They are metal, and not concentrated beams of light. They are matter and have mass. They would melt in the lightsaber, but then the molten metal would still come out of the other side. For Anakin, not full fledged Vader, the force would take a lot more effort and if you think that at closer ranges he can stop 30 rounds (say River has two MP-5A5s, 30 round magazines each, a cyclic fire rate of 800 rounds per minute, 15 rounds from each gun in just over a second, each bullet traveling at roughly 1100 feet per second) with the force instantaneously then you're completely overestimating his abilities. And Jedis have incredible reflexes, but someone of Anakin's size, agility (whole body, not just with his arms and hands), and temperment/mentality wouldn't be able to dodge those 30 rounds. And River's mental capabilites would allow her to read his every move easily. It wouldn't be a hands down match in any situation, but I think that in more cases River would prevail (barely, just barely) because she's more intelligent, a psychic, and more versatile (weaponry, tactics, etc.). And if someone like Anakin has a massive minichlorian (however it's spelled) count, then odds are that River, a psychic, has a relatively high count. Since she could read Anakin's mind and has always possessed an innate ability to absorb, learn, reproduce, and improvise the actions related to any task she'd probably have at least the tiniest level of profiency with the force after the start of the fight. At Anakin's level in the last 2 movies (meaning the newest two), the level where he was a complete little bitch, it would be a very close match but River would most likely come out on top in most scenarios. There are definitely some scenarios where he'd kick the crap out of River, but in most he wouldn't. She'd very easily be able to out think him, manipulate him, and out maneuver him. Plus with the right kinds of weapons in closer ranges she would be able to employ overpowering, or very close to overpowering firepower. And once Anakin was Vader he absorbed ENERGY, a concentrated beam of photons, not something that has mass. When Luke knocked Vader down in the final movie and started hacking wildly at Vader's lightsaber, then cut off Vader's hand, Vader rested against the railing. He didn't just absorb it. That's because it had mass, it was actual substance. A high volume of bullets being fired at Anakin would shred him. He may be able to slow a few down with his lightsaber, and maybe not get scalded by the molten metal flying out the other side, but he wouldn't be able to concentrate hard enough fast enough to use the force on any of the rounds speeding at him (let's - just for fun - say now that she has an AKS-47 in each hand, with added on custom built compensators to dramatically reduce recoil and barrel climb and 75 round drum magazines on each, this fires a 7.62mmx39mm round that travels at roughly 2300 fps and strikes with approx. 1400 ft/lb of force - I can think of other weapons that would be much more suitable for this kind of gunfight, but an AK-47 is a gun that everyone can relate to). He'd be torn to pieces. And he'd be too focused on trying to evade the at least 50 rounds flying at him from 15-25 feet away at 2300 fps to pull the guns from her hands using the force. If she didn't get any firearms, or ones with a much lower rate of fire or smaller caliber ammunition, he'd rip her apart. As I said, it all depends on the situation. Her mental capabilities far exceed his, as well as her versatility and ranged options, but his physical prowess in melee and power in slightly slower forms of combat (slower meaning he'd have time to concentrate on an effective force attack, her duel wielding customized AKS-47s and firing at him wouldn't exactly fit under the category of "slow", would it?) would win out if she got too close or had no other options left. Most likely, he'd become too easily enraged/emotionally disgruntled or flustered and make a mistake and she'd take instantaneous advantage of it and win. Almost any other Jedi (including the Vader form of Anakin) I think would easily win. But not the Anakin of Episode II or III (or one for that matter, but I don't think that one counts) I don't want it to seem like I'm overestimating River's, like I said, it all depends on the situation. I love Star Wars, but "Whine-akin", as he was so affectionately dubbed, wouldn't last very long against River. If she can execute three trained gunmen at a distance with her eyes closed, I think she'd be pretty proficient with any firearm she'd choose to use against Anakin. Obi, Mace, Yoda, full fledged Vader, etc. I think would all defeat her, but not the emotionally tumultuous, pathetically indignant little Anakin with the yellow conact lenses.

And I'm confused. How Einstein's work in the theory of relativity says that Darth Vader can absorb solid mass? The law of conservation of mass states that mass cannot be created nor destroyed. As is the same for the law of conservation of energy, but that would make sense if he absorbed the blaster shots into himself and his body stored the energy. Not a solid bullet. He didn't absorb Han Solo's gun when he Forced that over to himself. Vader's Force powers don't just eat up metal into what was left of his body. I can see it now, though...

Vader, standing there, the Emperor with an over under 12 gauge (each cartridge bird shot). Vader gives the go ahead. The Emperor pumps both rounds simultaneously into Vader's chest. Vader gets his rocks off on the feeling of internally destroying the matter that he first absorbed through the use of the force....

Then Vader goes to whoop River. But first, goes back in time as Anakin and gets whooped.

...my God I need to get out more often.

------------------------------------------------
The belief in a supernatural source of evil is not necessary. Men alone are quite capable of every wickedness.

-Joseph Conrad

Am I the only one surprised that we haven't heard of a Browncoat systematically executing top F0X executives?

*Notice that O is actually a 0, don't want any awkward questions thrown my direction...

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:28 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by OHSM333:
And I'm confused. How Einstein's work in the theory of relativity says that Darth Vader can absorb solid mass? The law of conservation of mass states that mass cannot be created nor destroyed. As is the same for the law of conservation of energy, but that would make sense if he absorbed the blaster shots into himself and his body stored the energy. Not a solid bullet. He didn't absorb Han Solo's gun when he Forced that over to himself. Vader's Force powers don't just eat up metal into what was left of his body. I can see it now, though...

Einstein is saying that matter is inherently another form of energy. It wouldn't be destroyed anyway. The energy that is absorbed is released in force powers. So, he'd just absorb the bullets and have a massive build up of power that he'd unleash as a huge force push or force lightning or something.

I hardly see the argument about Anakin standing there and waiting for River to fire some AK-47s at him as a valid argument for why she'd win. It's like saying "well if River waits for Anakin's lightsaber swing to be 1 cm from her torso there's no way she can win". Jedi have great reaction time as seen by them blocking lasers. Freaking lasers! They move at the speed of light. If a Jedi can block those then a bullet is like a snail trying to run them down.

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:32 AM

MSG

This discussion has become really well

"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007 7:59 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
This discussion has become really well

This discussion will be over when people admit that Joss created a semi-realistic hero and Lucas created a super hero.

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:40 AM

FLYVOTE

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
This discussion has become really well

This discussion will be over when people admit that Joss created a semi-realistic hero and Lucas created a super hero.

I'll admit it: Lucas created a super zero.

---- ---- ---- ---- ----
FlyVote (version 2.6) Be a Big Damn Hero: http://www.usbmicro.com/misc For Windows/Linux/MacOS9/MacOSX
Vote for our Big Damn Heroes!

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:49 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by FlyVote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
This discussion has become really well

This discussion will be over when people admit that Joss created a semi-realistic hero and Lucas created a super hero.

I'll admit it: Lucas created a super zero.

LOL

It's not an argument of who's cooler. Obviously Anakin's character is whinny, annoying and pathetic. That doesn't mean he isn't also super powered.

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:55 AM

FLYVOTE

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
It's not an argument of who's cooler. Obviously Anakin's character is whinny, annoying and pathetic. That doesn't mean he isn't also super powered.

The potential for the prequels being good stories was pretty high. But it all became sullied by JarJar and an excess of lightsabre flashes. And an overload of superfluous eye-candy. No substance.

Would have been better done by Whedon, to say the least.

---- ---- ---- ---- ----
FlyVote (version 2.6) Be a Big Damn Hero: http://www.usbmicro.com/misc For Windows/Linux/MacOS9/MacOSX
Vote for our Big Damn Heroes!

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007 1:57 PM

NUMBER2

The lightsaber would either completely destroy the bullets on contact or melt them. But the metal would not go out the other side, when ignited the lightsaber is essentially physical. A tiny bit of metal isn't getting through.

Its been established that one in touch with the force doesn't need to lift ones hand or gesture in any way to use the foce (except force lightning) so the the bullets with a definate mass could easily be deflected using force push. Anakin wouldn't even have to deflect with his lightsaber.

Finaly, Anakin would sense her presence in the force, know she was coming, push whatever bullets she manages to fire (if any considering how fast ankain could do it) back at her and then rip the weapoms from her hands. Then he could proceed to cut her in half and feed her to reavers or something.

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Thursday, April 19, 2007 2:44 PM

STARSNUFFER90

Well, being the sith lord that Anakin is, he would not be opposed to using force grab/crush/lightning. That said, River's DEMONSTRATED powers (I can kill you with my brain not proven), cannot stand up to the ability to crush her head using the force, or any other manner of evil ways to kill her.

..........................................
Inara: Why would I want to leave Serenity?
Mal: Can't think of a reason.

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