Quote:

---

Originally posted by redhead:
edit: some of the later posts seem to indicate that sansmercy came back and made personal attacks. Can someone find this? My poor old eyes are aching and I can't find it.

---

Quote:

---

How dare you link this to race.

This is the media's idea that honour killings don't happen in western countries ALL THE TIME, in christian households, in middle class households who have internet access, inside toilets and every advantage poor uneducated people in the middle of nowhere dont' have. That MOST domestic violence is about honour in some form, whether religious or cultural, and that mostly it is covered up for that same honour by men and women for the same reasons the woman in the video died.

You want religious encouragement of violence against women? check your bible. ANY bible. The vast majority of christians will choose not to use it, just like the vast majority of Muslims CHOOSE NOT TO. But it's there if you need it, if you're insane, if you live in an area that encourages fundamentalism as a way of life. If you're a woman there's no answer to it and if you're a man there's a nice excuse for you.

The problem with videos like this is that people watch them and have an excuse to hate entire cultures, vast portions of a map.


I'm also very very tired of people who need visual evidence shoved in their faces of human rights issues in order to feel something. You got so desensitised to violence that you need video footage of the starving, the downtrodden and the dead before you'll give money to a cause? screw you. There is *no such thing* as compassion fatigue. It's an infinite resource, like love. And if you're truly too stupid to realise that death and destruction are BAD THINGS that need to be stopped *without the video*, screw you twice. And I guess that screws over every poor country that can't afford the mobile phones to tape it.

Secret Message to Joss: it took THIS to break you? You weren't paying attention. (emphasis mine)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by redhead:
I got that her first post contained personal attacks. And I got that she got a warning. Someone else though made a reference to her making another attack. (which I guess could have been reason enough to kick her off but the first time wasn't)

---

Quote:

---

edited to say Joss linked to EN.

[ edited by sansmercy on 2007-05-20 13:00 ]

---

Quote:

---

Bless me, I apologise wholeheartedly to poor Joss. I didn't click the link because it looks like it links to it - entirely my fault. :-D

I know most men are too busy being upset that they can't bear children and then beating their wives in frustration and jealousy to pay too much attention to where they link. Joss is clearly a highly evolved being.

Womb envy is such a burden on poor men. I blame women, for flaunting their tampon ads and suchlike in the face of mens terrible loss.

Really, womb envy. Brilliant deduction. Not economics or education or lack of power or cultural fear or any number of other possible reasons. No, in the end it all comes down to the fact that nice sensitive men want to make babies and have periods and people who can do that scare them. Okay.

---

Quote:

---

Sansmercy didn't get banned for having a different opinion. She got a time out for being rude and aggressive about it, having already been warned once. That's not the way we talk to each other here, as most people who stick around this place know. They also know we do not discuss moderating policies on site.

---

Quote:

---

We, as men, should not knock women down to unrealistic them up to unrealistic heights. We should walk beside them, sharing their nobility and strength, combining it with ours, so that we both might stand tall and truly free.

---

Quote:

---

The theory I developed in college (shared by many I’m sure) is one I have yet to beat: Womb Envy. Biology: women are generally smaller and weaker than men. But they’re also much tougher. Put simply, men are strong enough to overpower a woman and propagate. Women are tough enough to have and nurture children, with or without the aid of a man. Oh, and they’ve also got the equipment to do that, to be part of the life cycle, to create and bond in a way no man ever really will. Somewhere a long time ago a bunch of men got together and said, “If all we do is hunt and gather, let’s make hunting and gathering the awesomest achievement, and let’s make childbirth kinda weak and shameful.” It’s a rather silly simplification, but I believe on a mass, unconscious level, it’s entirely true.

---

Quote:

---

Man is stronger by far than woman.
But only woman can create a child.
That seem right to you?

---

Quote:

---

If nothing we do matters, than the only thing that matters is what we do.

---

Quote:

---

One of the things that keeps people from doing anything constructive is the overwhelming feeling that it simply isn't enough. And the withering disdain of people like Sansmercy has a similar effect. It freezes people, makes speaking out or lifting a finger awkward and problematic...whenever a person decides to do something useful -- no matter how late or how little -- that's something useful.

---

Quote:

---

Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. - It's harsh, and cruel. - But that's why there's us. Champions. It doesn't matter where we come from, what we've done or suffered, or even if we make a difference. We live as though the world was what it should be, to show it what it can be.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by redhead:
Hey you all, I know this is a tangent but, if you've been keeping up on the commentary on whedonesque, what do you think about sansmercy being banned.

When I posted earlier about how proud I was of the articulate intelligent fans, I alluded to some being not so good. Two of the posts I was talking about being "less good" were sansmercy and caleb[edit, maybe not caleb--my memory is someone advocated going to another country and forcing them to conform to our belief set].

However, while I didn't like the violence and anger in either post, I also don't like that samsmercy who spoke out against Joss (wrongly IMO) was banned and anotehr who wholeheartedly(and somewhat violently) endorsed Joss apparently was not. Anyone else troubled by this?

edit: some of the later posts seem to indicate that sansmercy came back and made personal attacks. Can someone find this? My poor old eyes are aching and I can't find it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Crow:
As a raging feminist who loves many men I have often pondered the issue. Joss's theory of "womb envy" seems too simple to me (although maybe my theory is just as simple -- it's hard to see these things from outside).

I have always thought that men resented the sexual power women have over them (I certainly have resented the sexual power some men have had over me). I think we all resent being compelled in a direction that isn't the one we might have chosen if given a choice.

So for example when I have a hormonal compulsion to some man who does not reciprocate, I resent my powerlessness in the face of that compulsion. I resent the inevitable humiliation which accompanies said compulsion and I resent the man.

Powerlessness in the face of anything is difficult, and many many times, we are also powerless to fight back. When you are put in a humiliating situation at work, you are often incapable of taking any action on your own behalf. But, in the case of men vs. women, a man can fight back and in fact release ALL of his frustrations about his earthly powerlessness on this one cause.

And, in that way all humans have, we have a tendency to group our resentments. That is, if one man humiliates me through rejection, I can ascribe his nastiness to all men and resent all men for having the potential power to humiliate me through rejection.

It is also quite difficult to reject our own DNA programming so that others do not have the power to belittle us through their rejection. God knows, I try hard not to be a DNA puppet, but there I'm also fighting a force that may be more powerful than I am.

Moved to musing,

Crow

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by lexiblock:
His thread over there and here, does nothing to covert me to anything - I find it unplesant, its like religious fanaticism.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by ceres:
But isn't that his point? That it's obvious, in much of the world, gender does make a diffence and he's trying hard to understand why.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by quandom:
The problem is with Islamic civilization, not men. The treatment of this unfortunate woman would have been unthinkable one thousand years ago in Christian Europe - it was and is typical of Arab and the successor Turkish empires' culture. The Men of the West owe no apologies, but I hope we can all agree that whatever contributions it has made to the arts, the Muslim world is morally degenerate. In the coming clash of civilizations, I require from Whedon and every man living - which side are you on? I bid you stand, Men of the West!

---

Quote:

---

The treatment of this unfortunate woman would have been unthinkable one thousand years ago in Christian Europe -

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by quandom:
The problem is with Islamic civilization, not men. The treatment of this unfortunate woman would have been unthinkable one thousand years ago in Christian Europe - it was and is typical of Arab and the successor Turkish empires' culture. The Men of the West owe no apologies, but I hope we can all agree that whatever contributions it has made to the arts, the Muslim world is morally degenerate. In the coming clash of civilizations, I require from Whedon and every man living - which side are you on? I bid you stand, Men of the West!

---

Quote:

---

ANY group that propagates sanctioned inequality and injustice is morally degenerate to some degree. Am I including America? Yes. I'm also including Israel/Palestine, and some tenets of Buddhism (and I love the Buddhism, but male monks are treated far better than female monks (when the exist) which is hilarious because in traditional southeast asian society women commanded far more power and respect than men).

And if you think for a second that the problem doesn't lie with men at all, then I challenge you to dress up as a female and walk down a street at night. You might be surprised at what happens and who the shady characters are.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

And to everyone else:....

---