Serenity CD runs slow by dBerriff

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Serenity CD runs slow

POSTED BY: DBERRIFF
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 06:57
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Saturday, May 19, 2007 11:47 PM

This is probably old news but I have been tearing my hair out trying to work out why audio I have pulled off the DVD does not match the CD soundtrack. As usual I assumed I was doing something wrong. Turns out the CD is different.

It might just be the sampling rate is wrong - I need to look into it. Sorry if this has been covered before but I still haven't worked out how to search this forum.

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Sunday, May 20, 2007 1:27 AM

DBERRIFF

For some reason the CD plays back one semi-tone below the movie - at least for the funeral/ re-building and end-credits. So this is not getting the sampling rate wrong as I first thought I had done. I would guess it is more likely the movie soundtrack was sped up a touch to match the screen-play then perhaps pitch shifted to bring it up to a recognised key (so end credits get taken up from D to E-flat).

Phew, I'll take my anorak off now and just get back to enjoying the music.

I'm on the same side as you
I'm just a little behind == Chan Marshall

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Sunday, May 20, 2007 2:52 AM

REDHEAD

I picked this up from SigmaNuki. It allows you to search FFF.net very effectively.

http://fireflylabs.ca/misc/fffsearch.html

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Sunday, May 20, 2007 6:43 AM

DBERRIFF

Thanks for the search link - I will give it a try.

... and it works. Many thanks.

She's tore up plenty.
But she'll fly true.

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Sunday, May 20, 2007 8:26 AM

LEADB

If you find the "final" answer, please post, I'd be curious to know.

====
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BBC poll is still open, vote! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6517155.stm

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Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:51 AM

DBERRIFF

The search works but I haven't found an answer. I have a sound card that lets me record anything as it comes off the media so DVD sound gets stored at full, pristine 24 bit 49kHz quality. I thought I had goofed up converting it to 44.1 kHz 16 bit for my daughter's iPod as I kept comparing the results against the CD tracks.

Incidentally I am not advocating piracy here as we own the DVDs and CDs and just want to get the audio into the best working formats for Slimserver Squeezebox and iPod Nano.

The search throws no light on the issue but I was taken aback to see there was some criticism of the Serenity score. Perhaps it helps if you like classical music in the first place but I think it is a superb piece of film music that could and should have been worked up into a full 'classical' suite.

Someone comments that he didn't notice the music during the film. Excuse me - that is what it is all about - supporting the screenplay and not dominating it. It matches the film perfectly - thoughtful and poigniant. The guitar piece at the end is dropped into a minor key and is 50 odd seconds of perfection.

So, the end-credits music off the DVD was a must - it is a reprise of all the powerful themes. I've lost count of how many times I have listened to it as I tried different conversion formats but I could quite happily listen through it another 100 times, and then some more again.

She's tore up plenty.
But she'll fly true.

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Sunday, May 20, 2007 12:27 PM

LEADB

Very interesting.

FWIW, I'm a firm believer that if you've bought the masters, and you are keeping the results to yourself, you are at liberty to mish-mash to your hearts' content (with the possible exception if you've signed a contract otherwise).

I think you nail the music as part of a movie; if it done right, you know it's there, but you don't "notice" it. Sometimes -perfect- movie music doesn't stand up to being listened to separate from the movie, which does not (IMHO) take away from it being perfect. Must admit I have not yet really listened to Serenity's music as a standalone; but you are sorely tempting me to ;-)

====
Please vote for Firefly: http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html

BBC poll is still open, vote! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6517155.stm

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Sunday, May 20, 2007 12:42 PM

TURNIPYODOUR

I'm no expert on the subject but basically there are two video formats used for DVD - PAL and NTSC. Europe/Australia use the PAL format which runs at 25 frames per second and the USA/Asia use NTSC at 30 frames per second. This means that PAL DVDs run 4% faster than NTSC ones and it's this NTSC speed that the CD is running at.
Hopefully that made some kind of sense, like I said I'm no expert but I think that's the general explanation

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Sunday, May 20, 2007 7:59 PM

DBERRIFF

Quote:
Originally posted by TurnipyOdour:
I'm no expert on the subject but basically there are two video formats used for DVD - PAL and NTSC. Europe/Australia use the PAL format which runs at 25 frames per second and the USA/Asia use NTSC at 30 frames per second. This means that PAL DVDs run 4% faster than NTSC ones and it's this NTSC speed that the CD is running at.
Hopefully that made some kind of sense, like I said I'm no expert but I think that's the general explanation

The frame rate is different to minimise interference from the supply frequency. I would have thought that this conversion would be handled correctly (it is needed for just about every DVD released) although I know less about video than audio.

She's tore up plenty.
But she'll fly true.

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Monday, May 21, 2007 1:36 AM

DBERRIFF

It turns out we Europeans are being short-changed - our PAL movies are 4% shorter in time if not content.

I found this site:

http://www.paradiso-design.net/videostandards_en.html

Given that film is shot at 24 frames/second, for PAL:

"For the transfer onto PAL the film is simply accelerated. PAL needs 50 fields/s [i.e. 25 frames/second]. ". This represents a speed-up of just over 4%.

This page seems to confirms this:

http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Articles/PALSpeedUp/PALSpeedUp.asp

No wonder all these actors have high-pitched voices (joke).

I am amazed - the industry has taken the quick and easy solution. I just assumed they would use digital processing to get it right. Perhaps synchronisation is a problem.

At least the CD plays back correctly, but I really would like the end-credits reprise of the main themes - and of course the superb Firefly theme guitar segment. I have at least 2 software packages that will time-stretch audio without shifting pitch so my next challenge is to slow the DVD pull-off to the correct pitch and see if the inevitable 'artifacts' are acceptable.

You live and learn ...

She's tore up plenty.
But she'll fly true.

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Wednesday, May 23, 2007 6:40 AM

DONCOAT

Another option is to ask your American Browncoat friends to rip the music you want from their DVDs. I, for example, already have an mp3 of the solo-guitar Firefly theme that I made from a Region 1 DVD. I think there might be some technology available that would make it possible for me to send you a copy.

I might even be talked into ripping the other music you wanted (full end credit medley), which I haven't done yet.

Let me know

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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Wednesday, May 23, 2007 6:57 AM

DBERRIFF

Thanks for the offer but I have Wavelab and that has one of the best pitch shifting tools you can get. I now have a pretty accurate version of the full end credits music including the all important Firefly theme. The trick seems to be to wind 70 cents or so off the pitch and apply zero time correction - in other words let it slow down like a tape recorder would.

I haven't tried it yet with dialogue but I will find out if the change in voice pitch is noticeable (it will be on a direct comparison but will it be noticeable long term?).

I have got a stack of work to clear first before I can get back to this. Sigh.

She's tore up plenty.
But she'll fly true.

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