Imponderable Watercooler: Moodyrings for all! by nvghostrider

Hey all. After a few days of peace, the flare is back. Blegh.

Mavs! Congrats on the job!

Interesting ponderable Jonny. Like so many other things, I think it depends entirely on the specifics. As a huge House fan and someone who is on pain meds "as needed" indefinitely, I don't think that House is a Vicodin addict. I think he's in chronic pain. In my own research on pain medications, I ran across an FAQ about cancer pain, and cancer patients worrying about becoming addicted to the pain medication. In huge, bold letters it said "Relying on medications to lessen your pain is not an addiction." There are people who take Vicodin (or whatever) because they are addicted to the way it makes them feel. There are other people who take Vicodin because without it, the pain is unbearable. And unless you've experienced long term debilitating pain, you can't really understand it.

Pain meds aside... One of the daily medications I'm on is a hormone replacement for my thyroid. If I went without it long enough, I would get more and more ill, and eventually slip into a coma. I'm reliant on it, and I can feel the difference without it, but it's not an addiction. It's something that my body should be creating on it's own but isn't. Modern medicine has created longer life expectancies and provided a better life for so many people, in ways that can all be seen as artificial. Is that a bad thing? If a person can't live without a pacemaker, should we just let them die?

I tend to feel a bit differently about drugs for depression, but that's largely rooted in my own resistance to having them forced on me. I know they can and do help some people, either over the long term or just as a temporary solution, but I think they're way over prescribed. There are no tests to check the brain chemistry to see if certain chemicals are actually lacking, and many doctors prescribe antidepressants before running any tests to see if there's a physiological reason for the symptoms. I can't tell you how many people I know who had antidepressants shoved down their throats for years, only to find out later that what they really needed was thyroid hormone -- something one simple blood test would have told the doctor. So while I don't have a problem with antidepressants themselves, I do think that primary care docs shouldn't be able to prescribe them. Maybe after ruling everything else out, refer the patient to a psychiatrist who can prescribe antidepressants while also helping the patient work through whatever. But right now I personally think they're being given to too many people, and too often without addressing the root of the problem.

Ok, not sure if that actually answered the question at all, but that's where I stand.

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:01 AM

Doubleposthell.

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaliforniaKaylee:
Hey all. After a few days of peace, the flare is back. Blegh.

If I were ET, you would be the first person I'd poke.

That sounded better before I typed it. But I think you grasp the sentiment.

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:08 AM

LOL, Fly! Thanks for the sentiment, if not the wording.

ET would be quite the blessing about now. At least until he got into the freezer and drank all my vodka.

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaliforniaKaylee:
LOL, Fly! Thanks for the sentiment, if not the wording. ET would be quite the blessing about now. At least until he got into the freezer and drank all my vodka.

I can't get my finger to glow, but I'm sure I could drink all of your Vodka.

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyQuest:
Aren't the meds just another cop out, like the alcohol and drugs before them? I can't deal with life so I alter my chemistry. My problems are still my own, which only I can do something about.

They aren't a cop out at all. Having a chemical imbalance is an illness. When you have an illness, you take medicine.

My illness is in my kidneys. You illness is in your brain (brain chemicals).

My illness alters my ability to filter my blood properly. Unfortunately, your illness alters how you perceive the world around you, and how you deal with its ups and downs.

And not taking your meds? We've got a word for that. It's called being noncompliant. Take your meds, JQ.

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:57 AM

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"

Quote:
Originally posted by CaliforniaKaylee:
Hey all. After a few days of peace, the flare is back. Blegh.

you, flare! Continued hugs, darlin'

Quote:
Interesting ponderable Jonny.

Why, thank you!

Quote:
As a huge House fan and someone who is on pain meds "as needed" indefinitely, I don't think that House is a Vicodin addict...And unless you've experienced long term debilitating pain, you can't really understand it.

We love House. I personally think his "addiction" could "explained" either way; I don't know that the writers have let us know the full truth even yet. As with every episode's series of red herrings, they are playing with us using a lot of misdirection. I don't think he is an addict but I can easily see that he might be one. But as you said, " it depends entirely on the specifics". Just how much of House's world is made up of himself? I will say that if his pain is genuine (as genuine as a fictional character can be), then he is not abusing his meds. Never having been crippled by my wife, I can't begin to guess how intense the torment of his particular type of injury could become.

Quote:
If a person can't live without a pacemaker, should we just let them die?

It seems you have yet to make your peace with Darwin. Myself, I choose life over weakening the strain. Darwin isn't my best friend either.

Quote:
So while I don't have a problem with antidepressants themselves, I do think that primary care docs shouldn't be able to prescribe them.

You of all people know how realiable they are in diagnostic situations. Not all of us have that experience to draw from. I do to a much lesser degree than you from last summer's surgery: a 50-50 pair of diagnoses (not a single conclusive test in the bunch, and they didn't find out they decided wrong until I was opened up on the table. Cue call to the on-call specialist on the golf course and see what he thinks. Lone Ranger to the rescue and I'm still with us.) But 'tis my primary doc that gave me my meds. And my life is better for it. I'm fairly sure.

Quote:
Ok, not sure if that actually answered the question at all, but that's where I stand.

Your ever present frankness is always refreshing. Don't know that I'm looking for an answer, just trying to throw out something to makes us think.

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. - Walt Whitman

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:20 AM

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"

Quote:
Originally posted by FlyVote:
I can't get my finger to glow, but I'm sure I could drink all of your Vodka.

Pull my finger. Go ahead. *Giggle*
Then I'll go drink all your Vodkas and my nose will glow.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mavourneen:
My illness is in my kidneys. You illness is in your brain (brain chemicals).

Careful what you say about my brain. I can kiss you with my brain.

Quote:
My illness alters my ability to filter my blood properly. Unfortunately, your illness alters how you perceive the world around you, and how you deal with its ups and downs.

Bad filtration on both our parts, eh? Um, by parts I mean...oh forget it.

Quote:
And not taking your meds? We've got a word for that. It's called being noncompliant. Take your meds, JQ.

Honest, honest mistake, MommyMavs. Don't make FlyVoteDaddy, scold me too. The second day I missed them, I really couldn't remember if I took them or not and it's better to miss than over-medicate. I never fail when I'm on my regular daily routine. Okay? If I'm a bastard, it's because I'm a bastard, not because I missed my meds.

Truly happy for the jobbiness.

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. - Walt Whitman

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:21 AM

I give the fuck up.

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyQuest:
We love House. I personally think his "addiction" could "explained" either way; I don't know that the writers have let us know the full truth even yet.

That's actually one of the (many) things I love about the show. His drug use is open to a lot of different interpretations, and different characters on the show feel differently about it. But given my situation, when a character like Cameron accuses House of just wanting to get high, it irks me a bit. It's not getting high, it's suppressing the pain so that you can function something like a normal person. OTOH, I think that the writers do some of that on purpose: I feel irked like House feels irked, because I sympathize with him. It's talented writing, and I like that they don't just say "this is what it is, end of story."

Quote:
It seems you have yet to make your peace with Darwin. Myself, I choose life over weakening the strain. Darwin isn't my best friend either.

Darwin and I have a special understanding.

I can agree on "survival of the fittest", but I don't think fittest necessarily means healthiest body; sometimes it means most creative mind.

Quote:
...they didn't find out they decided wrong until I was opened up on the table. Cue call to the on-call specialist on the golf course and see what he thinks. Lone Ranger to the rescue and I'm still with us.

And I'm glad you are.

I realize that this is just the point we're at in modern medicine, but it bothers me that doctors take these things so lightly. "Well I dunno, let's cut you up and see."

Quote:
But 'tis my primary doc that gave me my meds. And my life is better for it. I'm fairly sure.

I don't doubt that they have made your life better. The drugs are on the market at all because they work, when used correctly. But if your primary care doc had had to say "I think this is what it is, let me send you to a psychiatrist to get you the diagnosis," you still would have ended up with the meds. Or if they had to run blood tests to rule out things like thyroid disease and diabetes, where depression can be a symptom of the underlying illness... I dunno. For the people they're right for, they can work wonders. But I don't like the huge numbers of people who doctors literally just throw away without actually trying to get to the bottom of it.

Quote:
Your ever present frankness is always refreshing.

Heh, thanks. It's difficult for me to communicate in any other way. Though, I'm finding once again that I get meaner during a flare. Sigh.

Ok, off to do some detective work on what to get my brother for his birthday. Seriously, it shouldn't be this difficult for me of all people to buy a 14 year old boy a good gift, lol.

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 3:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyQuest:
Honest, honest mistake, MommyMavs. Don't make FlyVoteDaddy, scold me too.

I really don't know why you would make this set of statements, or what you want to accomplish by doing so. You are an adult - are you expecting a scolding from another adult? And how would another adult make me scold you?

I see little, if any, scolding on this list outside of that done as humor. Often people ask for and receive heart-felt advice from people who really do care.

I will say this: I really thought that you posed a serious question, and that you would engage everyone in a serious debate, but once again I was wrong. I really think that the only reason you posted is to make snarky comments at the replies. I could be wrong about your intent, but your behavior clearly demonstrates that this is what you do.

Before you state that I'm the kettle calling the pot black, keep in mind (or review) that my posting is either supportive, or humorous replies to non-serious items.

Take a step back and look, "Jonny". You can do a bit of good by not trying to snark at every possible chance that you get. You are smart enough to share some insight with people, but sully it with comments and piles of pictures that have little value.

That's my opinion, others can share it, or disagree. In this thread I look forward to the heart-felt sharing among browncoats.

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 4:26 PM

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"

Okay. Here it is then. What you call snark, is intended as playful teasing. The whole "mom and dad" thing was a reference to a conversation you guys had with PhoenixRose the other day. I wouldn't have come up with it but for that fact. Perhaps I missed the context--very likely the case since I was catch up skimming. I precisely do not expect anyone to "scold" me or anyone else. This has been a community of love and understanding for one another. I certainly do not believe anyone can make anyone do anything. We all make our own choices for our own reasons.

I give and receive heartfelt advice, give when I have a relevant contribution, and receive when something applies whether it is directed to me or not.

My question was serious. My beliefs behind the question are serious. Not every gorram statement in a serious conversation has to be serious and in fact humor is sometimes required to make a thing palatable. I think you already know that because you are fairly on the bright side yourself.

The value of my posts and pictures are best judged by those to whom I direct them and the feedback I get from those folks is generally quite good, hence their continuation. I tend to do only things that work over time; nothing inspires change more than continual failure. As for the sullying that goes on, I fear it is the expectations people have of me that have become sullied. I have erred in the past to the point that now some people assume that everything that I say must have an ulterior meaning, that I am incapable of just being a harmless smart aleck, and am always on the lookout for ways to cut people down in the most hurtful ways possible.

If my actions of late have demonstrated my motives are such as you describe, heaven help us all when we cease to see the basic ironies in life. What then becomes of the subtle snark that infuses Joss's best work? Oh, right, he hates people. I forgot he said that.

I've never said a bad thing about you to my recollection. If I did, I apologize. I have apologized for my past sins as well. To those folks whom I offended. Some accepted. Some did not. I was sincere. I will answer to God.

All that said, I like your chivalry. Don't stop.

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. - Walt Whitman

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 5:07 PM

HELL'S KITTEN

After trying to stay out of it for so long, I just can't let this one pass me by.

Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyQuest:
nothing inspires change in other people more than continual failure.

Sorry for editing your post; just thought I'd clarify.

Quote:
JQ: As for the sullying that goes on, I fear it is the expectations people have of me that have become sullied. I have erred in the past to the point that now some people assume that everything that I say must have an ulterior meaning, that I am incapable of just being a harmless smart aleck, and am always on the lookout for ways to cut people down in the most hurtful ways possible.

You must have the memory of a gnat. Here, let me help (emphasis by me):

Quote:
JQ, a few threads back: but I tromp on someone else's feelings just the same just because I can and believe that everyone will figure out that I'm not a pompous ass. I have been such and I'm not proud of it. Can you tell when I'm serious and when I'm not? Part of my "charm" is a refusal to be categorized and so I'm going to try to confuse the issue sometimes. That way I can hide behind my "I was only kidding" shield whenever I want, whether it's true or not.

Seems to me, people do not "assume," they are acting on (1) their own experience and (2) your own confessed behaviour. And now you're indignant?

Quote:
JQ: If my actions of late have demonstrated my motives are such as you describe, heaven help us all when we cease to see the basic ironies in life.

I have to imagine that you are not The End All / Be All authority on anyone's basic life perspective or observations, despite your seemingly arrogant belief to the contrary. You are not the epitomy of irony, and it is not only through your grace that we can see and appreciate irony.

EDIT
I guess the message I'm trying to convey here is this: quit pissing and moaning about how people see you, because you are the only one who made them see you that way. Your choices. Your actions. Your behaviour. You want people to perceive you differently? You have to be different. A simple "I didn't really mean it" doesn't wipe the slate clean, and most people's memories aren't terribly short. Things like trust are not "deserved"; just saying you're all better now doesn't make it so.

EDIT EDIT

Quote:
Originally posted by FlyVote:
Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyQuest:
Honest, honest mistake, MommyMavs. Don't make FlyVoteDaddy, scold me too.
I really don't know why you would make this set of statements, or what you want to accomplish by doing so.

From my perspective, FlyV, he keeps poking at you because he's jealous that you and the lovely Mavourneen have an actual relationship. But I could be wrong....

Also? I got the awesomest kimono evarrrrr today. I tooked picturz. I might post 'em, I might not. Tired now. NyQuil has taken over.
Mmm, NyQuil. It's the big f**king Q!!! *giggle, snort!*

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sara013

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 7:42 PM

ZEROKIRYU

Quote:
Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
I got the awesomest kimono evarrrrr today. I tooked picturz. I might post 'em, I might not. Tired now. NyQuil has taken over.
Mmm, NyQuil. It's the big f**king Q!!! *giggle, snort!*

Pictures? Yes, please!

Hmmmm.....Maybe NyQuil would help my insomnia AND sore throat.

_________________________________________________

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 1:10 AM

HOBBLEIT

Hello all.

Didn't post yesterday. I was tired and just felt like lurking.

******************************

Now with letters after my name.
http://www.myspace.com/muddy_waters

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 3:17 AM

So, Jonny, you posted a lot of words, there. How should I reply? Should I take what you said as serious and work to create a relationship with you? Someone I can feel comfortable communicating with? Someone to exchange ideas with, and even humorous barbs?

Or should my reply to your apparently serious post point out your spelling mistakes? Should I make a sexual innuendo out of nearly every statement? Should I recombine your words/statements to serve a joke? Post a bunch of pictures?

Some people have learned that the second behavior is all that you are capable of. That appears to be you, even if they are hurt by this behavior. I don't like seeing friends hurt, so I called you out.

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:17 AM

I have nothing further to add from the above except to echo Zero. Please post the kimono picture, HK. I love my kimono and would like to see yours.

Mine is a "summer house" long kimono, cream colored cotton with blue flowers. It is one of my favorite things.

EDIT: It is lovely! I like the Hokusai like waves. Yours is a strong pattern. Mine is more a "bum around the house, hang out on the tatami" type of print.

EDIT2: I just discovered my kimono is actually a "Yukata" a kimono-like garment meant for use after a bath. The word 'yukata' comes from the words 'Yu' (bath) and 'katabira' (under clothing). It is never worn outside. Huh. Now I know.

(Nyquil and I are close, intimate friends...)

And Hobbleit, thanks so much for sharing those wonderful graduation photos for us. It has been great seeing you go through school, getting through the dissertation process, and ultimately graduating. *hugs* You deserve it!

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 5:15 AM

ZEEK

Where's all the hatred toward JQ coming from peoples? As far as I can tell he's one of the most good natured people in this thread. Second only to MsG.

This might be just how I grew up though. In my family you always poke fun at the people you like and you never poke fun at people you don't. Because one way it's good natured and the other it isn't. Everything I see from JQ seems good natured to me. So, I see no problem with it.

If I had to choose I'd take someone who will joke with me over a brown noser any day. At least the joking person can point out your mistakes in a good natured way.

Plus it's not like every post ever from JQ is all joking. He's posted serious things in the past and I'm sure he will again in the future.

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 5:37 AM

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"

You're still the son I never had.

EDIT: I don't take it as hatred though. Those who have wearied of me are good-natured, too, from what I see. Let's call it anger and disappointment.

EDIT ADDENDUM: And call me sad.

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. - Walt Whitman

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 5:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Where's all the hatred toward JQ coming from peoples?

I didn't post any hatred.

Quote:

This might be just how I grew up though. In my family you always poke fun at the people you like and you never poke fun at people you don't. Because one way it's good natured and the other it isn't. Everything I see from JQ seems good natured to me. So, I see no problem with it.

If I had to choose I'd take someone who will joke with me over a brown noser any day. At least the joking person can point out your mistakes in a good natured way.

Plus it's not like every post ever from JQ is all joking. He's posted serious things in the past and I'm sure he will again in the future.

Here is the way that I see it, Zeek. JQ can be serious, JQ can be funny. I'll deal with either. The trouble is not in posting funny things, or replying with a little bit of humor. It is the insult of ONLY joking about something serious.

Want to joke about something? Go ahead, joke. Want to be serious? Yes, I encourage you. I like both things. This thread is full of people that will offer warm even "loving" advice. And people that can be really funny.

But quit using humor to hurt. Even if you claim that you are a fun-loving guy and didn't mean harm, if you hurt someone with your stupid comments, knock it the fuck off. Apologize. Don't continue the behavior and then claim that all is good because you apologized once already.

Let me make up an example. (And my apologies to JQ - I don't know anything about your parents)

JQ's Post: Hey everyone. I haven't posted for a week because my parents died in a horrible accident.

Mav's reply: Sorry to hear that JQ, I lost both my parents when I was in my early 20s.

JQ's post: You "lost" your parents? Have you looked in "Lost and found"? {insert photo of missing sock}

There is no way that Mav shouldn't be offended by JQ's flippant reply. Dealing with things using humor is fine, but know when to apply and how strong to apply it.

JQ's posts are fine when he is serious, fine when he is funny. But when someone reaches out warmly to touch you with caring, don't turn the post into a joke. Mav reached out to JQ in a friendly way, JQ shat on her with a flippant non-caring reply. I can understand her hurt and frustration.

If that is picking on JQ, then it is. Me picking on JQ is less pain than he has inflicted on my friend Mavourneen.

I'm damn tired of this exchange. I really am.

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 6:59 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Droppin' in to say good morning to all.

LIBERTAS SUMPTUS

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 7:09 AM

HOBBLEIT

Quote:
Originally posted by Mavourneen:
And Hobbleit, thanks so much for sharing those wonderful graduation photos for us. It has been great seeing you go through school, getting through the dissertation process, and ultimately graduating. *hugs* You deserve it!

Thanks

******************************

Now with letters after my name.
http://www.myspace.com/muddy_waters

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 7:41 AM

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"

So that others may feel more at ease, I am starting a new thread for your use, while those of us inclined finish up here.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=29598

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. - Walt Whitman

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 8:01 AM

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"

Quote:
Originally posted by FlyVote:
I'm damn tired of this exchange. I really am.

Don't remember inviting you into it. I do not like having threads hijacked. I don’t like to hijack threads except for extremely brief exchanges on otherwise inactive threads. I especially do not appreciate threads hijacked for the purpose of a flame war. But since no one seems willing to drop it—the subject, that is; the gauntlet, it seems hit the ground a while ago—here we go. Any italics in this post are mine.

Quote:

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Where's all the hatred toward JQ coming from peoples?

I didn't post any hatred.

I didn't see any hatred.

Quote:
JQ can be serious, JQ can be funny. I'll deal with either…Want to joke about something? Go ahead, joke. Want to be serious? Yes, I encourage you. I like both things.

Deal with by ignoring the serious and not getting the funny? You say you like both

Quote:
The trouble is not in posting funny things, or replying with a little bit of humor. It is the insult of ONLY joking about something serious…But quit using humor to hurt. Even if you claim that you are a fun-loving guy and didn't mean harm, (1) if you hurt someone with your stupid comments, (2) knock it the fuck off. (3) Apologize. (4) Don't continue the behavior and then claim that all is good because you apologized once already.

1) Did, more than once. In the past.
2) Did.
3) Did. Not everything that’s said, is said on this board.
4) Didn’t.

Quote:
Let me make up an example. (And my apologies to JQ - I don't know anything about your parents)

Apologies accepted. I'm guessing you know something about Mavs' parents, or else apologies would be in order to her also.

Quote:

JQ's Post: Hey everyone. I haven't posted for a week because my parents died in a horrible accident.
Mav's reply: Sorry to hear that JQ, I lost both my parents when I was in my early 20s.
JQ's post: You "lost" your parents? Have you looked in "Lost and found"? {insert photo of missing sock}

There is no way that Mav shouldn't be offended by JQ's flippant reply. Dealing with things using humor is fine, but know when to apply and how strong to apply it.

As long as we are talking about your made up example, I am with you 100%. But you really ready to compare this:

Quote:
Originally posted by FlyVote:
I really don't know why you would make this set of statements, or what you want to accomplish by doing so.
Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyQuest:
Honest, honest mistake, MommyMavs. Don't make FlyVoteDaddy, scold me too.

to your example?

Quote:
Mav reached out to JQ in a friendly way, JQ shat on her with a flippant non-caring reply. I can understand her hurt and frustration.

What you don’t seem to understand is you are not Mal. I am not Atherton. And Mavs is not Inara. I accepted Mavs friendly, motherly admonition. I playfully channeled PhonixRose in my response. I regret if my playfulness was yet again misconstrued. As I tried to point out above I believe the situation has become over-sensitized more because of my past bad behavior than because of the true “hurt potential” of the current set of statements. Regardless of that, since Mavs is the offended party, it is between her and me. I have had no quarrel with you. Until now.

Quote:
If that is picking on JQ, then it is. Me picking on JQ is less pain than he has inflicted on my friend Mavourneen.

Thank you knowing the extent of my pain threshold. Luckily my skin is a bit thicker than that. Your “picking” doesn’t hurt me. But it does itch a good deal. And so I respond.

Incidentally, my mother died when I was 15 of a cerebral hemorrhage; she was in a coma for five days before we turned off life support. The funny thing is, I can make coma jokes and I don’t offend myself. And trust—if you can—there are few topics more serious to me than maladies of the brain and euthanasia. My dad died of lung cancer and emphysema 19 years later. I don’t find the diseases or his death funny. But I can cough up a lung laughing if something strikes me funny and the turn of phase doesn’t bother me. I did not die with either of them. The hell with that, I want to live.

Part of me hopes that you are as pure of heart as you seem to want to portray your ownself. If you are not, it seems that it might be insufferable to live with you IRL. I honestly doubt that’s a fair picture of you. I think you are really nice guy who is trying to help out. I think. I think chivalry has its place. I think that people also need to want help before we give it to them. If Mavs asked you to protect her honor, that’s one thing. If you are protecting her honor without her leave, it becomes self-serving. Seems to me, Mavs said her piece, even if I hope it’s not the last thing she has to say to or about me. If she did, then what are you doing?

HK, I haven’t forgotten you. But I will tread very lightly.

Volley returned.

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. - Walt Whitman

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 8:09 AM

ZEEK

The use of the word "hatred" was probably over the top. Sorry if that offended anyone.

I think I just tend to be thick skinned when it comes to jokes. As long as the person's intentions are not to harm, then I'm all good with it. I can honestly say I don't think JQ intends to harm anyone here with his jokes.

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 8:28 AM

Peter -

I have asked, and begged you to be a vital part of this community instead of vomiting up one liners in response to what other people post.

You are unwilling and unable to do so.

I have asked, and begged you to be mindful of how your words can be misconstrued when you try to be "ironic."

You are unwilling and unable to do so.

You posted something thought provoking and honest, to which, as I remember, both CK and I replied with equal honesty. To her, you were gracious and open. I got the vaudeville act.

Do you remember the following letter, Peter?

(To all, this is part of a private email I sent to Peter in May of this year)

Quote:
I offer a glimpse into my personal life, to share pieces of myself with people I have come to consider friends...only to have those pieces waved about like so much used toilet tissue. You trivialize me. (And others.) This is something I can not abide.

You seem to take a vanity in asserting you "sometimes" hit the mark with your humor. Doesn't that also acknowledge that more often than not...you are not "hitting the mark?" Lack of humility is (in my book) a worse offense than the sin of pride. Lack of humility is characterized by habitually trying to manipulate others. And this gets to the very core of my current dilemma.

I believe the phrase is "Hubris breeds the tyrant."

I hesitate to post currently, for fear what you will post against me.

I want a friend. I do not want to be manipulated by you, or anyone else.

I want to talk to people, to learn about them and their lives - not have my views and opinions vomited up for your comic relief.

I have come to the conclusion that unless things change dramatically, I can no longer consider you a friend. My trust in you is frayed. I no longer can assume you are on my side, nor give you the benefit of the doubt.

I'm done trying to read through your "playfulness" as you call it. I'm done giving out pieces of myself for you to vomit your comedy upon. And most of all, I'm done with this subject.

I would ask that you respect my wishes and put me on permanent "ignore." Please don't respond to anything I post or quote me in any way. I'll show you the kindness of doing you the same.

-Maura

------------------------------------------------

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyQuest:
Quote:
Originally posted by FlyVote:
I'm damn tired of this exchange. I really am.

Don't remember inviting you into it.

I don't have to be invited to be offended by the way you treat others.

Please, PLEASE show me the courtesy of putting me on your ignore list, too.

---- ---- ---- ---- ----
FlyVote (version 2.6) Be a Big Damn Hero: http://www.usbmicro.com/misc For Windows/Linux/MacOS9/MacOSX. Vote for our Big Damn Heroes!

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:38 AM

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"

Quote:
Originally posted by FlyVote:

Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyQuest:
Quote:
Originally posted by FlyVote:
I'm damn tired of this exchange. I really am.

Don't remember inviting you into it.
I don't have to be invited to be offended by the way you treat others.

Then don't whine about the cost.

Quote:
Please, PLEASE show me the courtesy of putting me on your ignore list, too.

Ironic that you are requesting the one thing of me you seem to believe I do not have. No funny here. Your wish is granted.

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. - Walt Whitman

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:47 AM

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"

Quote:
Originally posted by Mavourneen:
Peter - I would ask that you respect my wishes and put me on permanent "ignore." Please don't respond to anything I post or quote me in any way. I'll show you the kindness of doing you the same. - Maura

I regretfully and humbly acquiesce to your wishes. I am sorry we have been unable to find a safe ground on which to communicate. I will "ignore you only in the sense that I shall not respond; I will continue to "keep up" on what's new. And likewise ignoring me is no kindness to me. But I understand.

I don't want to split the Cooler asunder so if my presence here is offensive to others as well, I shall vacate the thread.

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. - Walt Whitman

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:54 AM

RUGBUG

It's all prickly in here.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:00 AM

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"

Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
It's all prickly in here.

I started a new thread to spare y'all the ugly...

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=29598#517361

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. - Walt Whitman

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:08 AM

RUGBUG

I know. I don't need to be spared. It does make me hurt a bit for you, though. But I've also seen the hurt or annoyance in others' posts. Eh. It's bound to happen. I've seen an entire board implode before.

But whatever. I say don't slink off. I really do HATE that. Like when PR just up and left b/c of some comments SHE didn't like. It bothered me because she basically accused me of being cold and heartless and then left...never allowing me the courtesy of an explanation...one she asked for. She couldn't control the comments being made so she fled. That's everyone's right, but IMO, there are better ways to handle things.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:23 AM

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"

No I won't leave unless the thread wants me to. I usually tend to lie in the beds I make. I know I've done wrong in the past and I'm not one to dig in my heels unless me or mine are attacked. Bit of irony there too, because that's exactly what I told FV not to do.

I think Mavs and I can peacefully co-exist, but I am sad at losing her friendship.

I don't expect you and PR to become best of friends, but at the same time I can be a friend to you both (I think) without offending the other. If we all liked each other the same way and shared all the same friends, I'm thinking there would be a serious surplus of human flesh out there with no reason for being.

Thanks for sayin'.

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. - Walt Whitman

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:49 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Excuse me. I just came in to see why my dear Mav was upset, and now I have to say that I'm pretty upset.
I made the best explination I could for my leave taking in my blog. This kind of nasty, backstabbing disregard for my feelings was exactly it.
Please leave me the HELL out of your venomous discussions and don't fucking talk about me behind my back, because it can easily become to my face and I don't appreciate it. If you have something to say, you say it to ME. I have an email, and it's directly linked here. I'll make the choice on whether I want to talk about it or not.
I do not EVER want to see my name in this thread again.
Thanks.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:03 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Excuse me. I just came in to see why my dear Mav was upset, and now I have to say that I'm pretty upset.
I made the best explination I could for my leave taking in my blog. This kind of nasty, backstabbing disregard for my feelings was exactly it.
Please leave me the HELL out of your venomous discussions and don't fucking talk about me behind my back, because it can easily become to my face and I don't appreciate it. If you have something to say, you say it to ME. I'll make the choice on whether I want to talk about it or not.
I do not EVER want to see my name in this thread again.
Thanks.

I tried to say it to you. You are the one who left the thread. I don't follow you around the board and I don't read blogs. I pretty much stick to this thread and a few other forums. I can understand why you left...but to ask for an explanation for a comment from someone and then leave in a huff, seemingly without reading it, is immature. The same kind of immaturity that makes you think you can control what people say in their posts. Your username may or may not be mentioned...it's not your call. I've actually stayed off of other threads because I get the feeling you don't like me. So be it. Not everyone has to like me and I wouldn't want you to leave other threads because the cold heartless bitch shows up on it.

I was not stabbing you in the back. I just used you as an example of an action I didn't like.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 12:30 PM

HELL'S KITTEN

Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyQuest:
HK, I haven’t forgotten you. But I will tread very lightly.

...?
What, you have an issue with NyQuil???

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Friday, July 13, 2007 2:30 AM

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"

Quote:
Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
Mmm, NyQuil. It's the big f**king Q!!! *giggle, snort!*

Now that you mention it. I'M the only big f**king Q around here...

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. - Walt Whitman

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Friday, July 13, 2007 7:34 AM

Well, I missed a bit, didn't I?

The topic should probably be left to die, but since I have an opposing view point, I thought I'd weigh in. I feel like I'm one of the few who gets JQ's jokes 95% of the time, and always, always reads some level of humor into his posts. I've never been offended by him, and half the time the reactions he gets are as much a surprise to me as they seem to be to him.

But like Zeek said, I think it has a lot to do with the sort of humor you're used to. I grew up in a very sarcastic, snarky, "lippy" (to use hubby's word) family, and I married a guy cut from the same cloth. We say things to each other in humor that we would never say to each other in seriousness, and we know how to tell the difference, and I think we all assume humor until there's evidence to the contrary. And we have a blast with each other because of it.

For instance, my brother just started dating his first serious girlfriend. They've been together 3 weeks, and he's in the "everything is perfect!" phase. He's at BYU currently, and with the way BYU courtships go, he could easily be married before Christmas. We have a family trip to Disney World planned for after Christmas, in which the unmarried brothers will be sharing a room. Mom and I have put a lot of time and effort into getting the hotel reservations arranged, and one of the first things I told my brother (over instant messenger) when he told me about his new gf, was that he was going to ruin Mom's hotel plans. He laughed and told me that he had thought about that -- meaning that he's already thinking about marriage -- and we went on with the conversation. He didn't take offense that the first thing I thought of was that we might have to change our hotel plans at the last minute, and he didn't take offense that I joked about his first serious relationship in such a me-centered way. We're both used to that sort of humor.

There are very few things in life that I find too serious to joke about, and most of those are based more in the difference of opinion on the topic, rather than the topic itself (there's one topic I can't abide jokes about, and that's the Holocaust, but thankfully that isn't one that comes up often in jokes). Religion and politics in particular are things we don't joke about in my family, and in general I try to avoid joking about anything that I know my opinion differs from that of the target of the joke. If I have a disagreement, I keep it serious, or keep my mouth shut.

That said, you gotta be able to joke about your own issues. The most serious thing in my life currently -- the thing I probably bitch about here the most, the thing that had me in rashes on Monday, crying in pain on Tuesday, and walking with a cane since I got up this morning -- is one of the things my husband teases me about the most. He comes up with silly names for my cane, he calls my meds sugar pills, he gives me crap for taking the lightest bags when we bring the groceries in from the car (I'm having trouble with the stairs even on the best days, now). But I know he's joking, because he also takes great care of me, and is really sweet to me when I need it. He jokes because you have to keep a sense of humor about things like this, or they'll eat you alive.

So I guess I see JQ's joking in the same way I see my family's joking: there's a funny side to just about everything, and joking makes our lives lighter. But I know he cares about me, and is sweet to me when I need it, and wouldn't do anything to intentionally hurt me.

Anyhow, I seem to be the minority opinion here, and that's fine. I don't have a quarrel with anyone here, and I hope no one will hold this opinion against me. I just thought it needed to be said.

(Yay, NyQuil! Big N, little y, big fucking Q! Heheh.)

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Friday, July 13, 2007 8:17 AM