Serenity by dogjoy3

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Serenity

POSTED BY: DOGJOY3
UPDATED: Saturday, July 28, 2007 04:57
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VIEWED: 3595
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Friday, July 27, 2007 12:02 PM

Here's whats bothering me ever since I saw the movie, Why did Joss kill Wash and Book when he had a psychic on board? He could of had River have one of her visions and stop it just before it happens! Anyway... being science fiction I still think he could still bring them back, time travel, worm holes ect... If not I cant see how you could have Serenity2 without them, maybe that was the idea, so us fans would stop bugging him. What do you think?

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Friday, July 27, 2007 12:33 PM

THEVOICEINMYHEAD

I think the reason that they were killed off was that the person wanted out of playing the charcter for their own reasons more than Joss wanted to kill them off. Ron Glass is not a young man, and at the time of filming there was rumor that there was some health problems. Alan, on the other hand, probably didn't want to be tied down to a contract to continue on with this project in case it was someone picked it up and continued with the show. It would have interfered with his other projects. Although not tied down to the show, they could still show up in flshbacks and such

Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

Browncoats are forever

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Friday, July 27, 2007 12:37 PM

GRIZWALD

Quote:
the person wanted out of playing the charcter for their own reasons more than Joss wanted to kill them off.

Oh dear. I think that is a giant red herring. Joss was just being Joss. A stinker! A lovable stinker, but a stinker no less. Neither of those actors has ever even hinted of wanting to leave the 'Verse.

___________________________________________________
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Friday, July 27, 2007 12:38 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Quote:
Originally posted by dogjoy3:
Here's whats bothering me ever since I saw the movie, Why did Joss kill Wash and Book when he had a psychic on board? He could of had River have one of her visions and stop it just before it happens! Anyway... being science fiction I still think he could still bring them back, time travel, worm holes ect... If not I cant see how you could have Serenity2 without them, maybe that was the idea, so us fans would stop bugging him. What do you think?

I think the best reason comes from Joss himself in the commentary. That being that if you want the audience to care about these characters and that they may die, then you have to , as a writer, earn it. In having two significant characters die you feel all the more for the remaining characters towards the last twenty minutes.

I must admit I genuinely thought they would die, all of them, except maybe Mal. But you know the hairs on the back of my neck were up... and they were wondering....

www.cirqus.com

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Friday, July 27, 2007 12:46 PM

THEVOICEINMYHEAD

Quote:

I must admit I genuinely thought they would die, all of them, except maybe Mal. But you know the hairs on the back of my neck were up... and they were wondering....

when the Alliance came through the wall i thought they were all dead also. I surly thought joss could not do that after everything they had gone through, but I was still in shock over Wash and Zoe showing no emotion

Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

Browncoats are forever

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Friday, July 27, 2007 12:58 PM

THEONETRUEBIX

You're not going to find Joss writing time travel or wormholes into Firefly/Serenity. That's not the kind of science fiction it is.

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Friday, July 27, 2007 1:10 PM

DOGJOY3

So... do you think a sequel would be doable without them, or did he want it to end here? Not that we would know what he really thinks, only our opinion.

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Friday, July 27, 2007 1:13 PM

BLUEMOONSTUFF

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

I think the best reason comes from Joss himself in the commentary. That being that if you want the audience to care about these characters and that they may die, then you have to , as a writer, earn it.

I agree. If you want something that will keep folks comin' back, then you have to make the movie real enough to believe. Folks diein' in that kind of a situation is a pretty realistic senerio.

Didn't like to see one of my BDH's bite the farm but it sure made for a hell of a movie. You could of heard a pin drop when I saw the first special screening. Kept hoping it would change when it made it to full release but now that I look back on it..... a HELL of a MOVIE!

BMS

An Original Browncoat - Member since September 20, 2002

Wearables • Writeables • Stickables
Fancible shiny goods made by a Browncoat for Browncoats
http://www.bluemoonstuff.com/Firefly_Serenity/fireflyserenity.html

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Friday, July 27, 2007 1:25 PM

THEVOICEINMYHEAD

Quote:
Originally posted by dogjoy3:
So... do you think a sequel would be doable without them, or did he want it to end here? Not that we would know what he really thinks, only our opinion.

a sequel would be doable without them. If Joss put his mind to it, he could do almost anything, but most likely they will show up in flash backs

Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

Browncoats are forever

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Friday, July 27, 2007 1:28 PM

DOGJOY3

Well... I'm going to go all girly on you all, but I just cant stand seeing wash die, thank God for fast forward. My imagination sees so many ways to make it exciting with River being psychic and all without killing them I just hate that part. And I thought Mal count fly, that's why he needed a pilot from the beginning of firefly? So many questions still not answered!

Don't take life so seriously, It isn't permanent.

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Friday, July 27, 2007 1:33 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Quote:
Originally posted by dogjoy3:
So... do you think a sequel would be doable without them, or did he want it to end here? Not that we would know what he really thinks, only our opinion.

Yup. I think there's room for a sequel there, but it would have to take on a different personality.
Thing with SERENITY is Joss was so lucky to have been given the chance to resurrect these characters. It almost NEVER happens. So when someone gives you the chance to make YOUR film, and lets face it SERENITY is all Joss, then you really have to give it everything you can, and that in part demands you make difficult choices. Such as the killing off of your key characters. It's a hard thing to do, but the story is injected with so much more. (especially if your clevercloggs brilliant like Joss and you can actually write a good story)

For me the one thing that suggests Joss left a little with the mind of making a sequel, is he fact that he didn't wrap up Mal and Inara's relationship. He obviously felt compelled to keep that to himself for the time being, suggesting that somewhere deep down in his little pessimistic soul is a piece of optimism, that desperately hopes some studio will asks him to continue his wonderful tale.

www.cirqus.com

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Friday, July 27, 2007 1:58 PM

DOGJOY3

From your mouth to Gods ears! We can only hope! good night, and keep hopping!

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Friday, July 27, 2007 2:20 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by thevoiceinmyhead:
Zoe showing no emotion

Were we watching the same movie? Every time she clutches his head and begs him to get up I feel like I'm being stabbed.

And I don't think the actors wanted out of the characters. Alan, at least, has often (lovingly) called Joss a bastard for killing Wash off. Ron Glass always seemed to have great affection for the character and the story and really wanted to see it told. And something along the lines of a prequel or flashback is not out of the question. All the actors signed for three movies. It was partly because he wanted to create imense tension and partly because he doesn't write shiny happy perfect endings; he writes grit and tragedy and something like reality. People die who shouldn't, and it's a messed up universe.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Friday, July 27, 2007 3:44 PM

THEVOICEINMYHEAD

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Quote:
Originally posted by thevoiceinmyhead:
Zoe showing no emotion

Were we watching the same movie? Every time she clutches his head and begs him to get up I feel like I'm being stabbed.

And I don't think the actors wanted out of the characters. Alan, at least, has often (lovingly) called Joss a bastard for killing Wash off. Ron Glass always seemed to have great affection for the character and the story and really wanted to see it told. And something along the lines of a prequel or flashback is not out of the question. All the actors signed for three movies. It was partly because he wanted to create imense tension and partly because he doesn't write shiny happy perfect endings; he writes grit and tragedy and something like reality. People die who shouldn't, and it's a messed up universe.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

I am sure we saw the same movie many times, I guess I just expected more emotion from someone who had just seen the man she loved, the man she was married to die in front of her eyes.

as for Wash and Book, I was just looking for reason why the person might want out of playing the character, in case the show is picked up again, my logic could be faulty, I have been wrong before, not that I will admit it, but I have been wrong before. Without a doubt, it could have just been joss's writing. At the time I had seen the move, the only thing of Joss's i had ever seen was firefly, original run, on TV, and DVD, maybe a hundred times

Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

Browncoats are forever

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Friday, July 27, 2007 4:19 PM

FOLLOWMAL

Quote:
Originally posted by thevoiceinmyhead:
..... I guess I just expected more emotion from someone who had just seen the man she loved, the man she was married to die in front of her eyes.

I think it's a matter of her training too.
Zoe is written as career military. She's seen a lot of death. She knows the finality of it and understands that you can't stop for much emotion in the heat of battle. Her emotion is very quickly interrupted by Mal who literally grabs her, hauls her so she's down and pushes her out of the cockpit and out of the ship. As she's casing Mr. Universes' place as they go in, you can see she's once again fully "on point".

Quote:

as for Wash and Book....

I understood on a gut level when I saw the movie why we lost characters. How could everyone get out? Seriously? It was such a dire situation there was no recourse. Just as in a real battle, some people die. Wash and Book died because stuff like that happens... and Joss unflinchingly makes it true in his 'Verse too.
I think both actors love their characters and love working with Joss and would come back in a heartbeat. If anyone can find a way to write them into a story, Joss can.

As to more? Who knows? Only Joss truly.
I hope, I hold and I wait.

http://www.martinfirrell.com/supersecretthingy.html

( Banner courtesy of Beth'll )

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Friday, July 27, 2007 7:56 PM

NAFLM

Quote:
Originally posted by dogjoy3:
Here's whats bothering me ever since I saw the movie, Why did Joss kill Wash and Book when he had a psychic on board? He could of had River have one of her visions and stop it just before it happens!

I don't believe that River was ever psychic. In the show she was referred to as being telepathic (see can't see the future, she can read minds).

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Saturday, July 28, 2007 12:49 AM

DOGJOY3

well, yes I see your point, but if you look back at firefly, for instance on the episode called Safe, when they are trying to burn her at the stake, she looks up and says to Syman "time to go" way before we can see or hear the ship. Also in the Movie the Operative is angry because the Doctor put a Psychic (River) with the parliament leaders and that's how she learned about Miranda. There are many instances that refer to her as a psychic or a reader (same thing)and that would include reading minds. Any way its just a thought, its done already I just like happy endings!

Don't take life so seriously, It isn't permanent.

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Saturday, July 28, 2007 2:45 AM

GRIZWALD

Even if River could see those events coming, I doubt she could formulate a warning clearly for anyone to understand and act on it before it was too late. She tends to use symbolic speech so often, I don't think our literal-minded Captain would have understood, or if he understood, believed, the warning.

I also don't think Mal took things truly seriously until Book died. He would have scoffed at anybody telling him NOT to do what he wanted because of some nebulous risk that may or may not be real. We all know our Mal, a little bullheaded he is.

___________________________________________________
High Priestess of Pork and Ag-Related Activities of the MYTHICAL LAND OF IOWA

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

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Saturday, July 28, 2007 4:57 AM

DOGJOY3

I think your right, but I was thinking more in the way when the ship finally crashes ,River looking shocked gets up runs like a mad woman yelling get up! get up! and pulls him, this happening very fast, Mal and Zoe get it, and help pull Wash out of the chair seconds before the pole almost gets him. See that's what am saying. Psychic in the moment an Epiphany not days before, though I don't think my idea would have saved Book. Its a movie after all I just wish he would have done something else with the end!

Don't take life so seriously, It isn't permanent.

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