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But I can give you reasons why stealing is wrong that make sense, outside of just "I think it's morally right". I feel like any system of morals has to be logically/pragmatically based at some level.

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Originally posted by Thrawn:
So, especially after Wonderfalls, there seems to be a HUGE number of people with the general thought "That's it. I'm done. I'm never watching a single Fox show ever, period."

I ask you - what are you hoping to accomplish? You think you're going to drive Fox out of business? You have no chance. No CHANCE. If everyone that ever watched Firefly or Wonderfalls never watched another Fox show again, we'd still barely make a dent. Fox's general audience is so completely different from those shows that us boycotting them isn't going to accomplish anything useful.

It will, however, accomplish one thing very well - the NEXT time Fox buys a Firefly, or a Wonderfalls, the audience that would watch it, the audience that would keep it on air, will be boycotting the network, so it will fail AGAIN. And the exact same thing will happen. All you're going to accomplish by refusing to watch anything Fox ever produces is help prevent Fox from ever producing anything interesting. Which, it seems to me, is exactly the opposite of what you'd want.

There is no conspiracy here. The only reason Fox cancels shows is because they tank. If you look at the Wonderfalls ratings, they fell sharply, from an already fairly bad first number. Granted, Fox is worse than most at promoting these shows and placing them in positions where they will be watched, and it's likely that they made a mistake by cancelling it early, but it's not because they're evil malicious conservatives or because they have a death feud against Tim Minear. It's because they don't understand how it takes a long time for cult followings to develop, and aren't willing to grant the time it takes for that to happen.

If we're ever going to get a show like this to stick around, we're going to have to show them that it's profitable for that to happen. Which means, first and foremost, that we have to actually watch it. Fox may be an unusually pathetic and incompetent network, but that's two good shows in a row they've been interested in and bought, and that failed because not enough people watched them. It's mostly their fault, but it's partially ours, too.

Don't boycott Fox, and don't assume that we'll never get one of these to work. All you're doing is causing more harm than good, and reducing the possibilities for more creative shows in the future. By all means, don't watch the bad ones - avoid any and all reality TV like the plague - but if you see one that looks interesting, watch it. And if you like it, get other people to watch it.

You never know what we can do when we try hard enough.

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More places for good shows to go. If that can't happen, then Fox not buying them in the first place might be an alternative, but when Fox buys a good show I still think it's worth at least trying to support it rather than dismissing it out of hand because it happens to be on Fox, don't you?

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Originally posted by infra172:
People abandoned network news for CNN and Fox News. News coverage on television is better than ever.

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"It's Badger's Hat, but you can't type that as a name."

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Originally posted by zoid:
Thrawn wrote:

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... What happens? The company -- like any organism -- evolves in accordance with Darwinism. Darwin was wrong, but we'll take it as read, still playing along

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I know this is way off topic, but this has been sticking with me a couple days. First of all, the analogy is a poor one- Organisms don't evolve, species do. Second, Darwin wasn't wrong.

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I know this is way off topic, but this has been sticking with me a couple days. First of all, the analogy is a poor one- Organisms don't evolve, species do. Second, Darwin wasn't wrong.

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The concept of punctuated equilibrium (PE) is explained. The development of the idea since its inception by Stephen Gould and Niles Eldredge is traced, as well as some of the controversies. PE consists of two aspects:

(1) an observation -that the fossil record is characterised by

(a) abrupt appearance of species, and

(b) stasis, or lack of substantial change, throughout a species' range in the fossil record; and

(2) a theoretical attempt to explain how this pattern can fit an evolutionary (naturalistic) model for the origin of species.

Follow link for more from http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/tj/docs/v8n2_punc_
equilibrium.asp

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Originally posted by IamJacksUsername:

In a recent study http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Report.pdf (See an excellent CSM http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1009/dailyUpdate.html summary), PIPA looked at where people got their incorrect info from:

80% of Fox News viewers were likely to hold one of the three incorrect beliefs.
71% of those who relied on CBS for news.
61% ABC.
55% NBC
55% CNN.
47% of Americans who rely on the print media as their primary source of information.
23% of the NPR/PBS audience.

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Originally posted by zoid:
The person or persons responsible for cancelling Firefly, in particular, have no business being in the field of entertainment. As soon as I hear they are no longer working at Fox, I'll tune in their shows again.

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Originally posted by Thrawn:


It will, however, accomplish one thing very well - the NEXT time Fox buys a Firefly, or a Wonderfalls, the audience that would watch it, the audience that would keep it on air, will be boycotting the network, so it will fail AGAIN.

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Originally posted by Thrawn:
So, especially after Wonderfalls, there seems to be a HUGE number of people with the general thought "That's it. I'm done. I'm never watching a single Fox show ever, period."

I ask you - what are you hoping to accomplish? You think you're going to drive Fox out of business? You have no chance. No CHANCE. If everyone that ever watched Firefly or Wonderfalls never watched another Fox show again, we'd still barely make a dent. Fox's general audience is so completely different from those shows that us boycotting them isn't going to accomplish anything useful.

It will, however, accomplish one thing very well - the NEXT time Fox buys a Firefly, or a Wonderfalls, the audience that would watch it, the audience that would keep it on air, will be boycotting the network, so it will fail AGAIN. And the exact same thing will happen. All you're going to accomplish by refusing to watch anything Fox ever produces is help prevent Fox from ever producing anything interesting. Which, it seems to me, is exactly the opposite of what you'd want.

There is no conspiracy here. The only reason Fox cancels shows is because they tank. If you look at the Wonderfalls ratings, they fell sharply, from an already fairly bad first number. Granted, Fox is worse than most at promoting these shows and placing them in positions where they will be watched, and it's likely that they made a mistake by cancelling it early, but it's not because they're evil malicious conservatives or because they have a death feud against Tim Minear. It's because they don't understand how it takes a long time for cult followings to develop, and aren't willing to grant the time it takes for that to happen.

If we're ever going to get a show like this to stick around, we're going to have to show them that it's profitable for that to happen. Which means, first and foremost, that we have to actually watch it. Fox may be an unusually pathetic and incompetent network, but that's two good shows in a row they've been interested in and bought, and that failed because not enough people watched them. It's mostly their fault, but it's partially ours, too.

Don't boycott Fox, and don't assume that we'll never get one of these to work. All you're doing is causing more harm than good, and reducing the possibilities for more creative shows in the future. By all means, don't watch the bad ones - avoid any and all reality TV like the plague - but if you see one that looks interesting, watch it. And if you like it, get other people to watch it.

You never know what we can do when we try hard enough.

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Originally posted by zoid:
...still nice to know people think about more than what sorta firearms Jayne owns...B]

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Originally posted by infra172:
Want to know how you can hurt the networks who cancel your shows? DONT BUY THE DVDs! Don't buy the Wonderfalls DVDs when they come out. Download pirated versions.

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In short, there is no fossil record of the slow change of one species into another.

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He held that a marmot slowly changed -- climbed the evolutionary tree -- into a man.

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