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Originally posted by Steamer:Now here's a question I'd like to pose to my fellow fanficcers:

What do you think of the issue of Mary Sue-ism? Do you consider this much of an issue in the Firefly fanfic community? And what's your opinion of original characters who are not Mary Sues, but still an obvious act of self-insertion? The line between self-insertion and Mary Sue is very fine indeed, but where should it be drawn?

First of all, I have to admit that I had to look up the term "Mary Sue" to find out if I understood what you were talking about -- that's how new I am to the fanfac world!

To get down to the question....I can understand the whole wish-fulfillment thing -- I do that whenever I day dream about being in this verse or any other favorite show -- but in any of my written work?

Because I've been writing other types of fiction (not fanfic) for a long time, I have to say that practically every character in my stories reflects a bit of me. We all can only write what we know, so while a character might not be totally me, I am in a sense every character I've ever created while I'm writing about her, him, or it.

Roger Rosenblatt recently said (on a segment of Charlie Rose), "Writing teaches you what you think." That's how I feel about most stuff I write. I do find myself creating main characters who embody much of my fears, frustrations, philosphies, etc. so I can work those out for myself. And if I can't live it in real life, I can certainly have the experience in the virtual reality of my words on paper! How cool is that! (File that one under "why I wanted to be a writer.")

Fanfic, I find to be a bit different though: I'm writing it for other reasons: to visit the verse for awhile, to keep Serenity flying, and to figure out how well I know the characters Joss Whedon created. Now for me, that last one means that any new characters I add have to make sense in the Firefly verse. They have to be a foil for one of Joss's characters or help move the plot forward. Any new character, as well as any of Joss's, have to stay true to what he's already created. Mary Sues? I don't see them as part of my exploration of the verse.

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Originally posted by KayleeGirl:
1. Why did you write your first Firefly based story? And how many stories have you written to date?

2. What's your goal as a fanfic writer?

3. Do you look for critiques on your posted work or are supportive comments enough?

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Originally posted by KayleeGirl:
(Writers of the Black? Scribblers on the Rim? We really should have an official name for our Firefly writers group. Any suggestions?)

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Originally posted by Steamer:

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Originally posted by KayleeGirl:
(Writers of the Black? Scribblers on the Rim? We really should have an official name for our Firefly writers group. Any suggestions?)

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Hm, how about "'VerseWriters"?

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Someone said they see "verse" as meaning all the worlds JW has created. When I say the 'verse, I'm speaking strictly Firefly-speak, though. What do others think about this?

We've also had "Rimwriters" as a suggestion.

Anyway, I guess my next question is: are any of you interested in starting up (or does anyone already have) a bulletin board for the we-who-shall-be-named serious Firefly fanfic writers to form an online writers' group?






If I'm gonna dream, I'm gonna dream big.

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Originally posted by KayleeGirl:

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Anyway, I guess my next question is: are any of you interested in starting up (or does anyone already have) a bulletin board for the we-who-shall-be-named serious Firefly fanfic writers to form an online writers' group?

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I been meaning to ask if there was a thread here where writers hang out, discuss writerly stuff?

And for a name , " Marginal Folk" or "Marginal BrownCoats"?

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More people should reply to this thread, it's fun to read everyone's motivations!

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Here's a new question for you and all the others:
What else do you write besides fanfic? Are any of you writers of other genres?

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Originally posted by girlfan:
Ok, this is tricky, and, I suspect, going to make me regret this. In my 'blurb' I always remind readers that I write for my own enjoyment, and that I would prefer comments only from people who enjoy.

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I would perfer to recieve those kind of comments in the form of a private message however.

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Originally posted by mal4prez:
Can I just say, because your post makes you sound pretty cool and possibly open to me saying this - I've never read your fic because of that blurb. I go through the blurbs in the BSR hoping to be enticed and drawn in by hints about the story. With yours I get something completely focused on the writer. It makes me, as a reader, feel unimportant and even unwanted. It's jarring. Kind of in my face. (BTW, I'm also put off by the blurb with the yackety-schmackety bit. It tells me nothing about the story, and could be put into the fic easily. Why oh why is it in the blurb?)

So, girlfan, based on your post here, you clearly are interested in the reader's experience, and open to improving as a writer. Maybe not open to hostile feedback - but who is? So really, that blurb you use is selling you, and your fic, short!

I think you'd get more readers and commenters if you moved the "I write for my own enjoyment, etc" stuff to the inside of the fic. Maybe put it both before and after the story text so everyone will get the idea.

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I would perfer to recieve those kind of comments in the form of a private message however.

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I totally agree with this! I actually do send private mails to writers when I find some silly little thing that detracts (and I consider it a compliment when others do the same for me.) Then the writer can fix it or not as they choose, but my nitpicking isn't there for the world to see.

In fact, I almost sent this whole thing to you privately. Maybe I should have?

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Originally posted by girlfan:
Oh, and its just my opinion but the stories yackety-shmacky blurbs ones are often really good, so try not to let the blurb put you off too much.

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But, like many readers, I don't have time to read everything. I have to be selective, and that's what those blurbs are there to help me with!

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Originally posted by Leiasky:
That's what the blurb is there for, to draw in readers who might be interested in the content of the story. I like the blurb to actually TELL me something about the story, the pairings, etc. I'll usually skip it otherwise because more often then not, I'll actually click on the story, start reading, and then be turned off because its not something I'm interested in - which could have easily been solved by putting in a description.

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Originally posted by girlfan:

This is another valid point. But what do you do if/when it's not really clear to you (as a writer) what the pairings are or will eventually be? Do you just mark it as it appears in the individual "chapter"?

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Also, I sometimes worry that that would be misleading - for example, if I described Roses as Silee, wouldn't most Silee readers find it an inaccurate description?

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If I say Mal/Inara, doesn't that kind of imply that they've moved further off of the fence then they have in my story (or at this point in my story)?

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Originally posted by girlfan:
It's possible that the gulf between what I do and don't know about the protocols of this board and fanfic are skewing my perceptions slightly.

Suggestions on this point will be genuinely appreciated.

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Originally posted by KayleeGirl:
I've just started to read the stories in the Blue Sun Room and I have to say I'm overwhelmed at the amount of stuff there is to read.(Any suggestions from you are welcomed!) So far, the work I've chosen to read is really good.
As a fellow writer who belongs to a writer's group where we dig into the hows and whys of writing, I'd really like to get some similar insights into all of you who write fiction for our shiny and beloved verse.

So, for those of you are willing, here goes:

1. Why did you write your first Firefly based story? And how many stories have you written to date?

I've published two and have a third slowly (SLOWLY) progressing. I write stories to answer questions I have--for example, with "Going Home" I wanted to answer the question, "Why didn't Mal just go back to his family/the ranch on Shadow after the War?" When I answer my question, my goal is to develop the character(s) in some way that gives me and my reader a deeper understanding of who they are.

2. What's your goal as a fanfic writer?

See above.

3. Do you look for critiques on your posted work or are supportive comments enough?

Critiques are as welcome as supportive comments. Writers should always be looking to improve their work, and how else can you do that but by getting feedback? Professional writers get edited; fic writers often don't, so they miss out on the critical comments that an editor would normally be giving.
I have a beta--a very good one--to play the role of editor, telling me what is and isn't working, and maybe making suggestions along the way. I try to return the favor. Writing at its best can be collaborative, as the reader's comments help the writer to come up with new ideas and approaches. That's what makes it more than just mental masturbation!!

Much thanks, in advance, to all of you!

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Originally posted by tkid:
I wrote a Kung Fu The Legend Continues series where Kwai Chang Caine was chased by giant spiders, and I wound up losing 25 lbs trying to figure out what kind of sounds a giant spider would make, etc.

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Originally posted by girlfan:
This is another valid point. But what do you do if/when it's not really clear to you (as a writer) what the pairings are or will eventually be? Do you just mark it as it appears in the individual "chapter"?

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Originally posted by KayleeGirl:

So, you post as you're writing the piece and don't wait until you've written the entire thing? Wow, you're much braver than I am! I tend to write out an entire rough draft, revise, and have someone beta for me before I even think of putting it out there for the world to read.

So...
NEW QUESTION: how many of you post as you go and how many post only after you've finished a story?

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Originally posted by girlfan:
[ there was a writer (don't recall the name) who would sometimes type stories in the window a bookshop. As each page was done it was taped up in the window - this is kind of my way of doing that - forcing a sort of continuity on myself. What's gone before can't be rewritten (though I will eventually revise the whole thing). You can only just carry on from there.

That's a pretty fun challenge.

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Originally posted by KayleeGirl:

Harlan Ellison used to do that. One of my favorite writers -- prolific, gutsy, and great. At one convention I attended, he was supposed to lecture, but read us a story he'd just finished writing instead. It was "Shatterday" (which ended up being chosen for the first episode of the new "Twilight Zone" series).

Excuse me for hijacking my own thread for a moment!

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Originally posted by Sofi:

i have had bad experiances of postin a story before it's completely complete n then gettin a bad case of writers block. i have vowed never to do this again! (but sometimes the submit button is soooo temptin on somethin that i love)

i hope this is vergin on interesting!

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Originally posted by jetflair:

It's a double-edged sword, though. I post my story on several different sites, and discuss it with different people, and critques can differ so much they drive me mad.

For example, one person will suggest that the story is dragging and I need more action, more violence, and crank up the angst, because I'm writing an unrealistically fluffy view of life in an Alliance POW camp. So I write and change things and address those issues and then.......

Someone tells me the story is too dark and angsty and I should lighten things up a bit, and play up the more compassionate aspects of the story.

So I've come to be a little iffy on certain types of feedback like that, and rely more on where I myself feel the story should go.

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