[spoiler]Reavers[/spoiler] by rallem

Thank you

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:58 AM

I do think though that the Reaver pressence in the Verse will now be a minor one because the maximum number of Reavers could have possibly been 30000, and of those several must have been killed by raiding parties, internal strife, and not to mention the final battle between the Republic. Now as it was pointed out above that fleet which Serenity pulled into the Alliance's blockade probably wasn't the entire Reaver population, it does bring up some very interesting questions, like how do you get any of those capital ships to work with a crew of nothing but blood crazed maniacs? How did the Reavers aquire those ships? Do the Reavers have a way of reproduction?

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:07 AM

MICJWELCH

Don't forget the guy that turned into a Reaver in the series.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:33 AM

I thought he turned into a reaver like creature, but not a true reaver. Of course my memory is not what it should be so I probably am wrong.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:39 AM

GORRAMGROUPIE

Quote:
Originally posted by rallem:
I thought he turned into a reaver like creature, but not a true reaver. Of course my memory is not what it should be so I probably am wrong.

They said he "became like them". I don't think he could be considered a reaver. However, by the same method I suppose new reavers could be created. And they never said that reavers were only men, there has to be some females. Whether they breed, unsure. Talk about a messed up childhood!
"Hannibal, eat your Ariel Pie! We had to travel 2 hours to find that juicy thigh for dinner!"

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:54 AM

I could see a Reaver coming home from a bad day at work with no way of blowing off steam. I wonder what type of hobbies he would take up, also if they could breed how do they theach their children to take over their jobs after retirement? Are the Reavers unionized?

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:03 PM

AZENTROPY

This is a pet peeve of mine. I think that the 1/10 of 1 percent of 30mil is taken way too literally. 30 million was an estimate, maybe it was 32 million rounded down, or 28 million rounded up... It wasn't exactly 30,000,000 people...

The line in the move is "about a tenth of a percent of the population..". That was an observed number. I'm pretty sure they didn't have time, or cooperation of the Reavers, to do a detailed census of reaver vs. non-reaver.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:19 PM

ok for arguement's sake let's say there were 30002 Reavers, does the final battle spell their doom as a viable entity? Does it really matter if threre were slightly more Reavers? Does it answer any of the questions raised above?

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 1:08 PM

FARFLY

Seems to me that Reavers (if there are any left) wouldn't be around very much longer anyway. They are essentially human, driven mad by the Pax added to the air processors and started doing stupid stuff like traveling around in a nuclear powered ships without core containment. So, how long does it take for radiation poisoning to kill them all off?

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 1:09 PM

That's a good point Farfly

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 3:14 PM

ALLIETHORN7

How do we know that that was the entire fleet that went after our merry band of adventurers? I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I saw more then a couple of stations that would have trouble moving- and let's not forget about the ships that couldn't move at the time.
Also, for the sake of arguement, that the Reavers had no real viable way of communications- I highly doubt that they would use ship-to-ship radio. So, considering how ruttin' big Reaver space is, there should be quite a few more. I don't care what you say- those fifty ships that followed Serenity? No way they could even hold 10000, let alone 30.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 3:21 PM

There are lots of questions that cannot be explained like communications, engineering, reproduction, and resource management. Sure the raiding parties brought new recources, but how did those get distributed, and adapted for their craft? Did the Reavers eat stuff that was not human?

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 3:26 PM

PHYRELIGHT

In the novel, they descibe Reaver space as having about 100 ships floating, and about 50 of them fallowed Serenity out to Mr. Universe's moon.

I aim to misbehave, but I usually miss!

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 1:05 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by blackbeanie:
While they might have taken out most of the reavers, I doubt it was all of them.
Some were probably sent off on raiding parties or maybe they had another armada hovering around somewhere. Who knows?

My thoughts exactly. Surely some of the Reavers are out wandering in the black looking for prey. I doubt very seriously that the Alliance took out every Reaver ship. I would say some got away, not the larger ships, but surely some of the smaller, more agile ones.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:25 AM

MICJWELCH

This actually brings up a different question I had. The pax was still in the air when Serenity got to Miranda, wasn't it? How contagious is it? Is that how the guy in the series became a Reaver? Would Mal and his crew be carriers, or worse?

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:49 AM

REDHEAD

The pax is a drug not a disease. Therefore, it isn't contagious.

The reason the boy on Bushwhacked became a reaver is more like the Stockholm syndrome--he was so traumatized by what he viewed that he wanted to become a reaver so that he wouldn't be destroyed by reavers (a little shaky plot development I think

. One reason why this isn't my fav episode)

The drug is gone from Miranda's system so the crew won't become reavers nor pass on reaverness

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:20 AM

It's obviously been a considerable amount of time since the pax was released and any drug that uses air born dispersal would likely have dissipated within 20-30 minutes. Once the system which fed pax into the air was no longer functioning, and it would eventually run out of pax and stop, there's not much chance of there being pax in the air. Could be residue on clothes and bodies, but it's unlikely that it wouldn't have decayed to point of not being pax...so I think they weren't exposed.

Unshielded cores would lead to sterilization and that kind of eliminates the reproductive growth, so it's either convert or die off... Don't think they convert many ( if it's even possible to convert ) so there might be a few reaver groups left, but not for much longer ( maybe 20 years tops)

You can't rush science, Gibbs! You can yell at it and scream at it, but you can't rush it. "- Abby Sciuto

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:05 AM

Biological and Chemical agents like the pax would be broken down over time by the weather, so now other than getting rid of the bodies the planet of Miranda would be ready for colonization especially now that the secret is out and most of the Reavers have been eliminated.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:12 AM

OK, I just have to say that this is one of the most creatively interesting threads I have EVER seen...and resembles the "farming on the rim" one going on in the 76th board to a degree. Man, how did I not know about this stuff EARLIER????

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:54 AM

SCHOOLBOYSWINK

The question of how many Reavers are left or how and/or whether they can reproduce, etc. are borderline moot following the BDM. The Alliance has to protect its citizens in order to maintain their claim to legitimacy. They don't do a very good job of it out on the rim, but they are SUPPOSED to. In the days of the series, the Alliance's official stance was that Reavers did not exist, and there apparently wasn't enough incontrovertable evidence to prevent them from getting away with this. Now that the signal has gone out and EVERYBODY knows the truth, the Alliance will have to answer not only for their current stance, but for the cover-up of 10 years, or however long it was (I forget). The result will be that the public will urge the Alliance into a Reaver-hunting campaign, and since the Alliance has all the space munitions (warships, etc.) which I assume have gone virtually unused since the War, with the exception of chasing down smugglers and doing patrols and so forth, they certainly have the available resources to make that hunt very effective.

So, bottom line, whatever Reavers might have been left, and regardless of whether not they can breed, they are going to be exterminated. True, tiny bands might avoid destruction, and who knows, mass broadcast of the signal could even spark the creation of some kind of sick "Reaver-cult", but Reavers as we knew them are going to be extinct.

As for Miranda being colonized, I don't see it. I don't think you could get settlers to go near the place. I see it more like getting a nasty reputation, and being avoided as "forbidden" for centuries after anybody really remembers why.

One thing I will say: a couple have made a distinction between a "convert" and a "true" Reaver. However, Pax changes the brain, not the body. They only physical changes in the Reavers are either things they did intentionally to themselves (or one another) or due to radiation burns from their ships, so as far as I'm concerned, whether you were drugged into it or chose to be it, there is no meaningful distinction between an "original" and a "convert."

"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SchoolboysWink:

One thing I will say: a couple have made a distinction between a "convert" and a "true" Reaver. However, Pax changes the brain, not the body. They only physical changes in the Reavers are either things they did intentionally to themselves (or one another) or due to radiation burns from their ships, so as far as I'm concerned, whether you were drugged into it or chose to be it, there is no meaningful distinction between an "original" and a "convert."

I'm going to wholeheartedly agree with this point. The "false reaver" concept is more like "are you a citizen or naturalized"...you're here now, who cares. Consider it very messy Stockholm syndrome. But, once the brain is there, the mutilations will follow...

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:12 AM

FLATTOP

I agree that the current group of Reavers will die out (no more Pax, sterilized by radiation, don't generally allow survivors to well, survive long enough to convert).
I think they may become more in keeping with what the Dortmunder's Captain postulated. Whenever a crew of slavers or murderous thieves wants an instant terror response from their target, they paint up their ship like a reaver, strap a few carcasses to the hull, breach wherever it won't vent atmosphere, jink the containment just enough to leave a trail without cooking everyone, play dress up with a bit of custom leather wear & makeup, hit the ground hard, gather up a few folk, kill a few others...
Looks like Reavers, acts like reavers, must be Reavers.
If your kin get snatched by slavers, you might get to thinking on pursuit, snatching them back, revenge, buying their contract, etc.
If your kin get snatched by Reavers, you mourn the loss & count yourself lucky to have lived through it. NOONE pursues Reavers. Not even Alliance.
The Reavers may all die out, but neo-reavers will be around until there's no more room for naughty men to move about.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:33 AM

I think you were right in assuming that the reavers will cease to exist, so the point of a "true" and "converted" Reaver is mute, but I don't think that space or any space will be safe. I think that space which was filled with Reavers will be filled with other scum such as pirates, and possibly a dangerous religious cult or two.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:50 AM

MICJWELCH

Not everyone would believe the broadcast. How many times do we see something that incriminated our own government, and people just brush it off? I'm not trying to go all conspiracy theory here, I'm just saying that not everyone listens very well.

Most people on the core worlds wouldn't care much about the Reavers anyway. People tend to care more about what's happening to themselves.

As for what I said earlier, we have no idea what the "pax" actually is. I would think that 500 years from now, technology would allow a drug to be used only once. I got the impression that it was part of the terraforming process, which means that they would have wanted it to last.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:39 AM

During the late 1800s and very early 1900s people from the well established cities like New York and Chicago couldn't get enough of news on the frontier, so I would imagine the same phenomenon would go in in the Verse, also it doesn't matter if many people believed the broadcast or not. It only mattered if the right people like journalists believed and followed up on the story.

Back to Miranda a moment: I wonder what the main forms of export were for Miranda? On the moon with Mud Farmers, we were told that the mud they export was used for the ceramic shields of space craft, and that was a small moon where it is plausible for there to be only major form of revenue, but on Miranda there were about 30 million people there and at least a dozen well formed cities, so I wonder what they did on that planet to make ends meet.

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 12:59 AM

I might try to write a fan fic about the recolonization of Miranda.

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 1:53 AM

"if this looks familiar to any 76ers, I posted it last night on the 76th board"

It came to me last night.

Miranda...there were reavers...but EVERYONE commented on no damage, no bodies harmed, nothing broken down at all.

NOT sitting here sayin, "hey, Joss f*cked up" in the least. But, did I just find one of those annoying little inconsistencies???

The hologram woman was actually attacked by one. We're assuming she was in or very near to that ship, right? Why is there no evidence of the reavers' presence?

Just a thought that came floating in...not unlike a leaf on the wind. Snickering as I turn in for the night.

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 2:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rallem:
I might try to write a fan fic about the recolonization of Miranda.

And I'd LOVE to see that fan fic piece!

BTW, when my middle Georgia Methodist grandfather heard me talking about Browncoats, he was a might concerned that I had joined a cult....

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Rule #1 for a healthy and productive life..."don't p*ss off the redhead!"

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 5:02 AM

I think the reason no signs of Reavers were seen other than in htat space ship was that all of the other Mirandans were dead and the Reavers couldn't very well be agressive to them.

I don't understand why time wasn't more erosive to the cities and why the power was able to come on when triggered. Who was manning the power station? Also, I would like to ask why the crew didn't explore the science ship and cities more. They could have found some stuff they needed like high tech weapons, computers, and money.

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 5:08 AM

Definately with you on the "money" aspect...what's a salvage crew without the salvage aspect???

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 6:11 AM

I would think there will be lots of salvage material floating around in the black after thaving the Reavers there for 12 plus years and then not so much any more, which should lure in the salvagers and bounty hunters to track down the last of the Reaver population. Or were you referring to my not understanding why the crew didn't search through the planet for stuff to use.

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 6:20 AM

I was agreeing to "why didn't they salvage AT ALL on Miranda"

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Rule #1 for a healthy and productive life..."don't p*ss off the redhead!"

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 6:30 AM

Oh, I understand. Sometimes I'm a little slow on the uptake.

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 7:46 AM

It looked to me like the Reavers won that massive space battle, and then many of them probably went back to the cloud?

River only killed the few that followed them to the surface of Mr. Universe's planet, correct?

Mal: "Seems like we arrived here in the nick of time. What does that make us?"
Zoe: "Big damn heroes, sir!"
Mal: "Aint we just!"

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 8:10 AM

Hmm, I had the opposite assumption from the space battle because in the end it was the Republic forces that pulled down the wall and told the crew to drop their weapons. I will admit that it looked like it was an expensive victory, the kind if you won too many of them you would lose the war.

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 8:27 AM

Yea my impression of the Reaver victory came mostly from the actual battle, where the Alliance lost their flagship and the rest of their fleet wasnt doing too well either.

But its definitely open to interpetation ...

Mal: "Seems like we arrived here in the nick of time. What does that make us?"
Zoe: "Big damn heroes, sir!"
Mal: "Aint we just!"

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 8:54 AM

I'm thinking I may have to re-watch that and see if I can get a body count... hmm might be interesting as a comparative

You can't rush science, Gibbs! You can yell at it and scream at it, but you can't rush it. "- Abby Sciuto

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 9:07 AM

How could you get a body count from the movie? I will admit things did not look good for the Republic forces, but they didn't look hopeless either.

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 9:53 AM

Body count of River's kills...

You can't rush science, Gibbs! You can yell at it and scream at it, but you can't rush it. "- Abby Sciuto

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 10:13 AM

Ahh, I see! What would that get you? You know, I just thought of something. There were an awful lot of Reavers on the planet side with the large kill ratio of dead from the crew of Serenity, so it is quite possibly viable that the Reavers did in fact win the battle above and the Republic Troops which ripped down the wall were either a presence of troops who pushed back after the majority of Reaver ships were landed or escaped, or they were from ships which had not yet joined the line by the time of the battle. The Troops may have performed a counter attack which is a common military strategy after a withdrawal.

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 10:55 AM

GORRAMGROUPIE

Just because the flagship goes doesn't mean everyone went. The flagship is just the biggest target. And time and again it is the little ships, the destroyers and such(to use navy terms) that do the most damage, being small, fast and hard to hit. As far as looting the planet, I think that they had a time constraint, not knowing if anything followed them or if the agent was right behind them. Although, that is a common gripe of mine, not grabbing better stuff. I hate seeing a movie where they go through with a pistol, when there are automatic weapons lying on the ground, or not taking time to get the supplies that could be used. As for power, if it was an automated nuclear plant, then there would be plenty of power, just needed the presence of people to re activate it.

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 11:05 AM

That is true, but there weren't just a few reavers on the ground, there were a horde of them, and how could that be? They either won initially and were then beaten back by the rpublic forces, or so many of their ships wanted the crew of Serenity that the ignored the republic forces and landed their horde at the destruction of their fleet. My opinion only.

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 11:07 AM

Well I figured River took about about an average ship's worth of reavers so we could use that to extrapolate the basic numbers as a comparison to the 30,000

You can't rush science, Gibbs! You can yell at it and scream at it, but you can't rush it. "- Abby Sciuto

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 11:18 AM

How can you assume it was only one ship's detatchment?

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 12:27 PM

please disregard

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 12:27 PM

I cant remember, weren't there actually 2 reaver ships landing behind the wrecked Serenity?

Mal: "Seems like we arrived here in the nick of time. What does that make us?"
Zoe: "Big damn heroes, sir!"
Mal: "Aint we just!"

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 1:31 PM

I think it was one vessel which landed with Serenity, but I don't think that alone means that only one ship landed, and the reason I say this is there were too many Reavers there for just one ship. (imo) It seems that after all the killings which Mall, Zoe, and Jayne did the Reavers just kept filling the holes in their line. Of course there simply could be too many inconstancies for any of us to reason this away. I personally started this thread assuming the Republic won in the sky and space, and I think it is still possible they did and one of the reasons for that is too many Reavers landed to get the crew of Serenity. One clue in the movie might be River’s line when she answered why the Reavers weren’t shooting the Mule out of the sky and she said, “They want us alive when they eat us.” Perhaps the Reavers want Serenity above all reason because they flew through Reaver space and destroyed a Reaver ship. Just a guess.

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 5:30 PM