Imponderables-Changes in the Wind by MSB

*pounce*

Firsties!

Kelkhil

Some men just wanna watch the world burn

The Shirtless Forsaken

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Friday, November 16, 2007 5:26 AM

Congratulations on firsties... so how's Laurelin doing?? I'm betting the two of you have only one new years resolution...survive new baby:)

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Friday, November 16, 2007 5:37 AM

She is doing good. A little tired lately for some unknown reason.

Although I think I have been a bad person. I have taught the little one to run up to Mommy and rub her belly chanting "Buddha, Buddha, Buddha, Buddha, Buddha!" and then run away laughing!

I am a bad bad person!

Kelkhil

Some men just wanna watch the world burn

The Shirtless Forsaken

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Friday, November 16, 2007 5:40 AM

ooh you git...if I could reach through this screen I would slap you!! Oh you are just so lucky Laurelin is sweet and all..
Give her a big hug from me and then you'd best be giving her a foot massage and make her dinner

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Friday, November 16, 2007 5:43 AM

I never do new year's resolutions. I guess being this cool there's just not a whole lot to change.

That or I'm too lazy to even think of what I need to change. Much less actually change something.

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Friday, November 16, 2007 5:46 AM

LOL Zeek...the exalted one.. ( by the way perfection only tempts the gods to destroy you)

I forgot to put in my resolution... to live life on my terms and not live it making others happy

Oh and to dance naked in the rain...

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Friday, November 16, 2007 5:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MSB:

Oh and to dance naked in the rain...

*brings rain into the thread and a camera*

Oh and Laurelin just laughs when the little one does Buddha Belly rub. It is too cute to get angry about!

Kelkhil

Some men just wanna watch the world burn

The Shirtless Forsaken

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Friday, November 16, 2007 5:49 AM

Which is why you had the wee one do it... tiny children can get away with all kind of things

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Friday, November 16, 2007 5:54 AM

RUGBUG

Woohoo, it's Friday. Yeehaw. And a good song (Walking After You - Foo Fighters) just came up on the random play...does this mean it could be a good day? I really hope so.

New Year's resolution would still be the same as always: be nicer. Well, nicer might not be the word, but be more accessible, maybe? I'm probably the opposite of MSB...I don't give a rat's ass about making other people happy. Maybe I should a little bit.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kelkhil:
Although I think I have been a bad person. I have taught the little one to run up to Mommy and rub her belly chanting "Buddha, Buddha, Buddha, Buddha, Buddha!" and then run away laughing!

OMG, that's funny.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Friday, November 16, 2007 5:57 AM

Actually it's a weird dichotomy. Those people I am closest too I will do anything to make them happy... anyone else can take a flying leap off a cliff. So maybe it's just finding balance I need..

Oh and a reliable email sever at school...our is down...ARGH!!

AGAIN!!!

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Friday, November 16, 2007 6:35 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by MSB:
Actually it's a weird dichotomy. Those people I am closest too I will do anything to make them happy... anyone else can take a flying leap off a cliff. So maybe it's just finding balance I need..

Well, I'm more like that. I will help friends with anything they need, but I know that I can't make them happy...they have to be that themselves.

But, I don't let many people be my friends. Maybe that's what I need to work on. I don't know how to need people, so they don't feel needed or important to me. Yeah, maybe that's the way to describe it.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Friday, November 16, 2007 6:48 AM

MISTERG

Hey all.

resolution: loose more weight and get to the target weight I want.

MsB: Since your email is down can you txt me please, need to ask some questions about the house paint!

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Friday, November 16, 2007 7:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
Well, I'm more like that. I will help friends with anything they need, but I know that I can't make them happy...they have to be that themselves.

But, I don't let many people be my friends. Maybe that's what I need to work on. I don't know how to need people, so they don't feel needed or important to me. Yeah, maybe that's the way to describe it.

*high fives RugBug* I'm totally like that too. I guess I just don't like being dependent on others. I like having things under control. Though anytime my friends need me I make time for them.

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Friday, November 16, 2007 7:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MSB:
I forgot to put in my resolution... to live life on my terms and not live it making others happy

Oh and to dance naked in the rain...

Excellent resolutions.
I'll join you on the last one, if that's all right, provided it's a very warm night; we can make a thing of it. ((snikkers))

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Friday, November 16, 2007 7:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
Quote:
Originally posted by MSB:
I forgot to put in my resolution... to live life on my terms and not live it making others happy

Oh and to dance naked in the rain...
Excellent resolutions.
I'll join you on the last one, if that's all right, provided it's a very warm night; we can make a thing of it. ((snikkers))

STOP THAT. You're making the male half of this forum get all weird and far off looking.

"It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain

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Friday, November 16, 2007 7:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gorramgroupie:
STOP THAT. You're making the male half of this forum get all weird and far off looking.

Don't care.

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Friday, November 16, 2007 7:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
Quote:
Originally posted by MSB:
I forgot to put in my resolution... to live life on my terms and not live it making others happy

Oh and to dance naked in the rain...
Excellent resolutions.
I'll join you on the last one, if that's all right, provided it's a very warm night; we can make a thing of it. ((snikkers))

*faints*

Kelkhil

Some men just wanna watch the world burn

The Shirtless Forsaken

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Friday, November 16, 2007 7:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
Quote:
Originally posted by gorramgroupie:
STOP THAT. You're making the male half of this forum get all weird and far off looking.
Don't care.

Well if you have no problem being the object of post adolesence fantasy, I got no problem with it not being a problem. BTW, this includes all the females here.

Hmmmmm, a naked rain dancing convention for all the shiney women here...

I'll be in my bunk.....for a while.

"It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain

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Friday, November 16, 2007 7:49 AM

HK...you've got it!! Naked rain dancing here we come ( and yes it will need to be warm) HUGS

Sure MrG

HUGS Zeek

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Friday, November 16, 2007 7:49 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:

I'll join you on the last one, if that's all right, provided it's a very warm night; we can make a thing of it. ((snikkers))

Heh. I was thinking I would have a problem dancing nekkid in the rain because we RARELY get warm rain here. Rain is for the cold times in CA. I could/would like to dance nekkid in some warm rain.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Friday, November 16, 2007 8:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gorramgroupie:
Well if you have no problem being the object of post adolesence fantasy, I got no problem with it not being a problem. BTW, this includes all the females here.

((laughs))
How or when you fantasize over this 12pt font is neither my concern nor within my control. ^__^
((leaves all manner of things unwritten...))

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Friday, November 16, 2007 8:56 AM

12 pt font can be very sexy, with a little italics.....

"It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain

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Friday, November 16, 2007 9:20 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS

*runs in an bigassjimibearhuggles all the ladies in the thread*

Resolution: To make better use of my time.

~jimi
Lt. Alexander - Chief Medic / XO Alpha Co. / Logistics & Transportation Specialist - 76th IAB

It's unfortunate what we find pleasing to the touch and pleasing to the eye is seldom the same.

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Friday, November 16, 2007 9:27 AM

*snuggles Jimi back

Have a good trip darlin'

Rugbug...you'll have to come to Dragon Con. There's almost always warm rain in Georgia during the summer..

HK... good thing we didn't suggest naked pole dancing in 14 font garamond... they might have gone off completely

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Friday, November 16, 2007 9:44 AM

Howdy all. All for the nekkid dancing in the rain. Seems *deleted for TMI purposes* this summer so dancing naked in the rain seems like a liberating thing for next summers free moments.

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Friday, November 16, 2007 9:52 AM

oooh more naked dancing...this has a forsaken kind of flavor...yet warmer...giggle

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Friday, November 16, 2007 9:59 AM

Warmer than Forsaken Flavor (R), how is that possible?

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Friday, November 16, 2007 10:05 AM

psssh dancing is so lame. Can I just jump in puddles naked?

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Friday, November 16, 2007 10:19 AM

Call me a hick (really I won't take offfense) but I always loved having fun with the night trail rides that usually lead to splashing through mud holes and ending in more TMI situations.

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Friday, November 16, 2007 10:27 AM

MISTERG

NVG: you hick! :D

I just hope you're not talking about riding naked too...ouch!

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Friday, November 16, 2007 10:31 AM

Naw, off roading in el pickup truck. Seems Ginny likes to get out for nice slow rides in dirty out of reach places and I'm more than happy to oblige. Seems I like to have extra company out in the desert so...

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Friday, November 16, 2007 12:17 PM

Gotta git to my prevention group here in a bit. Hope to hear from y'all later. Seems I might be about doing payroll this weekend.

(Practices hyper active robot hugs for later)

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Friday, November 16, 2007 12:59 PM

CALIFORNIAKAYLEE

Hey all. Could use some hugs today. I've mentioned before that the industry I work in is 90% male, and that it's often an uphill battle to get any sort of respect as a woman. I also have very few role models to look up to -- no woman has done what I want to do, professionally. But there are a few women whom I really look up to, and who are doing things now that I hope to incorporate into my career someday.

Today I found out that one of the only women in this industry that I idolize -- strike that, the only woman in this industry I want to be anything like -- has had the entire hill we've been fight up fall down on top of her. She is in a high-profile position. She worked many, many years to get to that position (I worked in the same office as her when I was just starting out, and was in awe then, too). She's very talented. She's also very pretty. She is lead on a high-profile project, so her company decided that she would be the one to do press interviews. Just the same as thousands of men before her.

Except that since she's a woman, and pretty, she gets called a whore and a slut. There's no way a pretty woman could possibly be qualified for her position, right? It's gone beyond name-calling on the internet now, though. I just found out that some d

d out there made a pornographic "web comic" using her name, likeness, and product name. Straight up pornographic, as well as demeaning and derogatory. I've never seen her with so much as her shoulders uncovered, but because she made the mistake of being an attractive woman in this industry, there is now cartoon porn of her out there on the internet.

So I'm pissed, of course. I'm trying to think of a way to contact her and say "I've always looked up to you, you totally don't deserve anything like this, they're all a bunch of assholes." I might get a mutual friend to send some sort of message along for me. But I'm also feeling more than a bit disheartened. That is what I would have to deal with if I can go as far with my career as I want. I love my job and hate every other form of employment I've ever considered, but with this it's only barely worth it.

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Friday, November 16, 2007 1:09 PM

CK that totally sucks. I really can't say that I know how she feels or how you feel for that matter. To me internet idiots are just that and I would mostly try to ignore them. Though I'm not sure if that's the only people giving her a hard time.

All I can say is never let the jerks of the world stop you from going after your dreams. That's exactly what their comments are trying to do. Isn't living well said to be the best revenge? Maybe that's the right line of thinking here.

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Friday, November 16, 2007 2:16 PM

CK - that SUCKS! And for the pricks that are taking that kinda attitude aren't real men, or boys, or even worth the space they occupy. As a man, personally I cringe at the whord "whore" or other such words. And no one should assume that someone got to the top by neferious means. Grrr, stuff like this makes me unhappy to be male, I don't want to be lumped into the "male" population.

What profession do you work in, btw? I'm curious.
EDIT: And absolutly you should let her know you look up to her. It will let her know that the whole world isn't against her, and you might end up with a mentor or even a friend.

"It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain

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Friday, November 16, 2007 2:41 PM

CALIFORNIAKAYLEE

Thanks for the support guys. ((Hugs)) Gorram, I actually have a Non-Disclosure Agreement that prevents me from saying what I do for a living, heh. The industry is high enough profile that even in my lowly position, I have quite a few Google hits on my name, and I've never even done an interview. So my close friends and family know what I do, but with people who don't know me personally, I'm suppose to keep quiet. And only my closest family members know what I'm working on (that has its very own NDA).

I do think I will email her, if I can figure out how to get her email address. I'm a member of a group for women in my industry, and some other members there have gone as far as to say that she is partially to blame for the comic, for putting herself out there like that. Hopefully she's getting more support to her face, at least.

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Friday, November 16, 2007 5:10 PM

(Edit)

Quote:
Originally posted by CaliforniaKaylee:
Hey all. Could use some hugs today.
...
Today I found out that one of the only women in this industry that I idolize -- strike that, the only woman in this industry I want to be anything like -- has had the entire hill we've been fight up fall down on top of her.
...
Except that since she's a woman, and pretty, she gets called a whore and a slut. There's no way a pretty woman could possibly be qualified for her position, right? It's gone beyond name-calling on the internet now, though.

*eHug* Aw, sweetie, I'm sorry. =(

I know what it's like to work in a male-dominated profession, though I suspect it's much easier for me, since it's not exactly "high profile."

I think, though, that this is the most important thing:

Quote:
She is in a high-profile position. She worked many, many years to get to that position (I worked in the same office as her when I was just starting out, and was in awe then, too). She's very talented. She's also very pretty. She is lead on a high-profile project, so her company decided that she would be the one to do press interviews. Just the same as thousands of men before her.

In my mind, there are always going to be two "up-hill struggles." The first being internal, the second being external, as it relates to the company and position itself. The internal struggle is getting peers, colleagues, and management to recognize the fantastic abilities that are equivalent to - if not superior than - your male peers. This, I think, is the only one anyone ever has any hope of winning, as it's a much smaller scale. It allows you to pursue your career, advance, and branch out to improve yourself... aaaand collect a paycheck while you're at it.

The second - the external struggle - is the one you have no hope of winning. Ever. It's a battle of perceptions, old prejudices, and egos. People outside your company or profession, who will never actually see the hard work you put in and the results of that hard work, will always see only what they want to see. There will always be assholes. There will always be the unbelieving, insecure, callous cocksuckers who don't know or care how hard you work or how far you've come or how well you've done at your job; their only function is to try to bring you down in order to make themselves feel even the tiniest bit better. This is a fact of humanity that no one will be able to change.

Confusing these two, I think, is quite detrimental, as the first you can change and the second you cannot; fighting against something you cannot change will only bring you down physically, mentally, and emotionally. (Which is what I've been doing my entire career, so... you know... do as I say, not as I do *snikker*)

So, considering that this She of yours has risen to the top to lead an apparently important project and was chosen by Her company to be the face of things... I'd say she's won the internal up-hill struggle: She's made her impression and proven to her peers, colleagues, and management that She can do her job so damn well, and they trust her to do it. That, to me, is the most important. Fuck everyone else. To me, She's succeeded and even though what pigfuckers may be saying about her is shit, it shouldn't deter you or Her and it shouldn't make you think that you're losing.

(And if She's of the inclination, regarding some of the more malicious Interwub pr0n using her name and image, She could always seek the opinion of a Lawyer {libel, defamation, or whatever the proper term would be}.)

I hope some of that made sense......

...

OH! Also! Zeek is completely wrong (see below), obviously. I've figured out what you do for a living. You are the American, female version of Q from James Bond, and you rock. Really, it is the only reasonable conclusion. ^^

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Friday, November 16, 2007 5:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaliforniaKaylee:
Gorram, I actually have a Non-Disclosure Agreement that prevents me from saying what I do for a living, heh. The industry is high enough profile that even in my lowly position, I have quite a few Google hits on my name, and I've never even done an interview.

I figured it out!! CK is in the CIA! It's obvious that she...wait a second. Hmmm some big guys in suits and sunglasses are pounding on the door. That's odd it's night time what do they need those sunglaaa......

I, Zeek, do hereby affirm that I am in no way under the impression that CK is a member of the CIA.

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Friday, November 16, 2007 7:00 PM

CALIFORNIAKAYLEE

((Hugs)) HK. Thank you, you are completely right. I try to focus mostly on that internal fight, and remind myself often that I tend to have it pretty easy, as both my father and my husband work in the same industry. It helps me work with the men better, I think.

At the same time, I do think there are small gains to be made in the external fight. That group that I mentioned, for women in this industry, is focused on doing what we can in the external fight as well as the internal fight. We have made some gains. Our percentage has doubled in the last 15 years (from only 5%!), and we've almost completely won the fight against "girly posters" in the work place. We work to get girls interested in our industry, and college women to seriously consider it as a career. And every now and then, it looks like the public is growing up a bit, and then something like this happens. I had high hopes for this situation in particular, because She does have such an impressive resume, and has always been very modest and classy in the way she dresses and carries herself. She's not the sort who would ever pose for Maxim or whatever to get attention as a pretty girl in a 90% male industry. And like I said, if I idolize anyone I idolize her, so this hit me a bit hard.

But you are right: she won the internal battle, and is obviously successful and respected by her coworkers. If that is real respect, something like this won't make them lose any respect for her at all. And I guess you have to have thick skin if you're going to be in any sort of high-profile position -- you can't worry about what some goon on the internet says or draws. The whole thing just sort of knocked the breath out of me. And the other women in our group backbiting and saying that maybe she deserved it because obviously she must have sought out all this attention really got to me. Women who are supposedly behind the cause of advancing both the internal and external fights questioning whether she is actually qualified for a position like that. Disgusting IMO (and I told them so!).

Her company has already served at least one Cease and Desist on her behalf, and I think she might have a defamation case against the "artist". I don't know where the line between public and private figure is legally, but this is some loser in his parents' basement, even bringing the suit against him would be justice, I think.

As far as what I do for a living, the small bit of work I have done for the government has been a bit more, uh, theoretical. Theoretical and first application at the most, not field ready.

But "spinning mirror" jokes (5 points if you can name the movie) abounded during those dev cycles.

And if I was Quette, wouldn't I work for the CIA? Q = British = MI6. Quette = American = CIA?

Thanks guys, feeling much better in general now.

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Saturday, November 17, 2007 5:13 AM

MISTERG

Gods CK that's horrible *hug* sorry to hear about it. At times I'm so disgusted by males and especially the derangement that goes into corporate culture.

For gods sakes people should only be judged on their ability to do their job properly, not sex, race, etc. And for that all to happen to someone who clearly knows what the hell she's doing it.. it just brings down the view of the human race yet again :(

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Saturday, November 17, 2007 12:42 PM

I agree! Let's kill off the human waste errr.. race! Long live the browncoats!

"It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain

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Sunday, November 18, 2007 2:57 PM

Popped in 'cause of weekend work and wow. Not to say I face the same scrutiny,but in an office and field occupied by predominantly women, I can understand a little. What sucks is that women face so much more BS is so many more fields of profession than I can imagine.

Seeing my collegues as equals is something applied and never really thought upon. It's when people, regardless of sex, rise above the poision arrows of others when we can truly appreciate their sacrifice and endurance. Best wishes and blessings to your role model CK. Strength and courage to all you incredible people who endure the dumb asses of our race.

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Monday, November 19, 2007 3:58 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS

Quote:
Originally posted by CaliforniaKaylee:
Could use some hugs today.
< snip >
I'm trying to think of a way to contact her and say "I've always looked up to you, you totally don't deserve anything like this, they're all a bunch of assholes."

*bigassjimibearhuggles CK*

I think the words you used right there would be the perfect way to say it. I'd send her a note through the mutual friend saying just that.

As for the miserable f*cks that did it, well, there are lots of things I want to say to them, and lots of things I would want to do to them (stupid law enforcement, getting in the way of my fun). Mostly I think they are just petty and jealous.

*bigassjimibearhuggles CK again*

Quote:
Originally posted by CaliforniaKaylee:
some other members there have gone as far as to say that she is partially to blame for the comic, for putting herself out there like that.

This really f*ckin' irks me. I can't put the hateful feelings into words right now, but it does indeed make me very mad.

Oh yeah, and RIMG *heart* HK, a whole lot. :)

~jimi
Lt. Alexander - Chief Medic / XO Alpha Co. / Logistics & Transportation Specialist - 76th IAB

It's unfortunate what we find pleasing to the touch and pleasing to the eye is seldom the same.

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Monday, November 19, 2007 5:06 AM

HUGS CK sweety... all I can say is don't let the bastards get you down. You know who you are and what you can do. I'm with HK I think your role model already won the battle proving to those she works for and with that she can do the job. As for those women in your group.. what is wrong with them that they would fall back on the "she is asking for it" theory... Because it's just wrong to be an attractive woman ????
Don't you listen to a word of it. There will always be discrimination, but the only thing you can do about it is prove your own worth and if others can't recognize it know that it's their failing not yours!! Chin up sweety!!

HUGS HK... so did you like the new plan?? My only concern is do we need a blindfold or just some kind of holding pen??

*snuggles Jimi*

Zeek- we did warn you not to be too sharp with your deductive reasoning... HUGS

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Monday, November 19, 2007 5:59 AM

Happy Monday folks.

Here's the culinary experiment I was working on last week:

Churros! This was the rough draft test run. The final product turned out even better. Considering this involved hot oil I figured I was going to burn the apartment to the ground. I had the fire extinguisher and a big box o baking soda at the ready just in case. Amazingly things went fairly smoothly. They were a big hit at the potluck and clearly I was the most dedicated to bringing something that went with the main course of enchiladas. Notable lame foods that were brought were lasagna, hot wings, mashed potatoes, coleslaw. I mean seriously folks how do those go with enchiladas?

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Monday, November 19, 2007 6:02 AM

eew mashed potatos and enchiladas...similar eeew to the coleslaw and lasagne.

Ok so incredibly impressed about the churros Zeek.. you'll have to share the recipe!!!

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Monday, November 19, 2007 6:16 AM

http://www.cooking-mexican-recipes.com/churro-recipe.html

That's the one I used. They tasted much yummier the second time around too. I think it helped that I got the oil to the right temperature. The first time I was more nervous about going over so it was about 60 degrees cooler than it should have been.

You may also require one friend who knows where to purchase a decorating tube thingy. Your mileage may vary on that part.

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Monday, November 19, 2007 6:19 AM

Wow so cool!!!! HUGS thanks Zeek:)

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Monday, November 19, 2007 7:56 AM