Why did Mal fight in the war? by Jongsstraw

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Why did Mal fight in the war?

POSTED BY: JONGSSTRAW
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 18:06
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VIEWED: 4550
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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:57 AM

I've only seen the series and the movie...none of the "auxilary" materials....but I do know that Mal grew up on a ranch on Shadow. There were 40 ranch hands there who were his buddies.

Then the war starts... Why did Mal go? What did the Alliance threaten or intend on doing to Shadow and the folks who lived there?

Having 40 hired hands indicates Mal's family had property and wealth....was that threatened in any way by the Alliance?

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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:17 AM

AGENTROUKA

Because there was one, he was just about 18/19 and there seemed a chance at winning this thing?

Mal's a child of his time. He went because it was the right thing, and then it became the only thing. And then he lost that, too.

Homeless orphan. Sucks to be post-Valley!Mal. No wonder he went to the only place that could still be considered "away".

Edited to add: I think it was a matter of principle and political upbringing. Shadow was probably independent ("The Alliance tried to unite everything under their rule." or some such.) and thing would have changed had they succeeded.

Most people would feel that way if their country was to become part of a bigger controlling political structure, unless they had reason to expect big improvements. Someone already wealthy and comfortable wouldn't be expecting anything to get better, just different.

In fact, it makes more sense for the established and comfortable to disapprove than for, say, a class of poor and underprivileged factory workers. They might expect better safety regulations and pay. Who knows?

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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:06 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Yes the Alliance won, but what did they really win?

The outer planets like Jianying and Triumph show little or no signs of Alliance rule...heck those "independent" planets look like they could use a bit of enlightenment.

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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:24 PM

MUDKICKER

To quote "The Train Job", Mal said, "...to unite all the planets so they could be interfered with or ignored equally." That seems to be the general outcome. Not that the Alliance had anything to gain by it, but like many large governing bodies, they want to know that they control everything and everyone... period.

That'd be my guess.

"We are not gonna die. You know why? Because we are so...very...pretty. We are just too pretty for God to let us die."

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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:33 PM

RALLEM

I think Mal fought for the principle of it which was one of the reasons Jayne brought it up and asked Mal how many of his platoon survived.

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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:46 PM

NELILLY

The Firefly RPG suggests that the planet Shadow was bombarded by the Alliance, thus rendering it uninhabitable.

cordially,
N.E. Lilly
http://www.spacewesterns.com/

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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:08 PM

ZEEK

Mal had faith during the war. He believed it was the right thing to do and that the forces of good would triumph. He believed God was on his side.

Then all his beliefs were crushed. He lost everything in that war and the series is built around how the shell of a man that is Mal survives. He survives by just keeping on flying. In my opinion he survives by keeping his sights set on one day. Get through that day and keep flying. If he looked at the big picture he'd see what he's been reduced to and he'd be way too depressed to go on. Find a crew, find a job, keep flying.

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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:01 PM

THEHEROOFWILLIAMTOWN

As stated earlier Mal was in the war because he thought it was the right thing to do. Same as anyone in his situation.

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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:48 PM

TRAVELER

Independence is a good sounding word. The United States wanted Independence because they felt they did not have a say in their own affairs. This may have been the same feelings the frontier planets, in this show, had when they were so far from the main planets. They were probably on their own and handled their own affairs in the early years of settlement. Then as the years passed by the main planets, who formed the Alliance, started sending out more and more ships filled with their own police and military forces, which made the frontier planets see their independence being taken away. The Alliance may have pushed certain laws that independents did not like and the rest is history.

There may have been good intentions by the Allience, but this did not make up for the fact that the people were losing their independence.

I don't know Mal's personal history. He may have got swept up by the feelings of the majority to fight for freedom. Maybe something more personal happened to him. There is no mention of a draft, so I don't believe Mal was forced to join. My impression is he volunteered. He seemed very enthusiastic in every scene that showed him in combat.

I have only seen the show and the movie and never read any of the literature. There may be more answers there about Mal's personal reasons for beinging in the war.

In our War For Independence, meaning us people in the United States, only one third of the population supported the war while one third supported staying with the United Kingdom.
So just because someone is from one of the outer planets or moons it does not mean they would have supported independence. Mal had the freedom to choose. He could have joined the Alliance if he thought they were going to be helpful and fare to frontier worlds. But that was not the case.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:48 PM

JONGSSTRAW

I just got home from work ( and the pub ) and I think all the responses here are terrific! Great stuff...thank you.

And I'd like to ask a follow-up question...like the South during the Civil War, what did the independents really hope to gain? DId they really, for a second, think they could possibly defeat the Alliance with endless military resources? What did the Independents, like The South have....besides balls & bayonets as Badger said? What resources could they really have had, since they were dumped or re-located to these worlds with not too much in the way of comfort and technology, or arms I imagine? Did they think, even with some battle victories, that they keep the Alliance away forever?

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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 3:11 PM

SCHOONER

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I just got home from work ( and the pub ) and I think all the responses here are terrific! Great stuff...thank you.

And I'd like to ask a follow-up question...like the South during the Civil War, what did the independents really hope to gain? DId they really, for a second, think they could possibly defeat the Alliance with endless military resources? What did the Independents, like The South have....besides balls as Badger said? What resources could they really have had, since they were dumped or re-located to these worlds with not too much in the way of comfort and technology, or arms I imagine? Did they think, even with some battle victories, that they keep the Alliance away forever?

My guess is they thought they could make it unprofitable for the Alliance to expand outward. Also, they wouldn't have to hold the Alliance off forever, just long enough for the people, the corporations, or Parliament to say "we've had enough". If they could do that, buy a few decades of peace to develop their own resources, they could then secure a lasting independence.

Trouble was, the Alliance figured that last part out, too...

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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 3:15 PM

THEHEROOFWILLIAMTOWN

I think it's possible that they (Mal's side) thought that they only had to hold them off. That perhaps if they held or cost the Alliance enough that they'd eventually give up hope of taking over the outer worlds.

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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:30 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Shadow had freedom.
Alliance wanted dictatorship over all the planets and moons. Some people value freedom. Mal and his kind were some of those people, like some of us here in The Land That Was Of The Free.

There are no more "Independent" planets. They are all now enslaved as "Unified". The alliance Core planets steal, rob, extract what they want from the outer bodies without needing to provide anything in return. Sorta like the cities reap what they want from the rural areas without providing much in return. The verse is just a macrocosm of our world.
Your view of how "unenlightened" these places are is a direct result of being subjugated under Alliance rule, not because they succeeded in defeating the Alliance from overtaking them.

Mal and Zoe did not want to be "under the thumb" of the Aliance any more, thus they live on Firefly and cherish what momentary freedoms they can have for now.

Jongstraw, the Independents did not start the war. The Alliance decided to force all of the Unallied, non-Alliance, aka Independent Planets and moons to be subjected to Alliance rule. Look to Earth history , specifically Empires. The Independents were defending their worlds against the crushing club of Alliance control. The Alliance just wanted dictatorial rule over everybody they could reach. They wanted to control everybody, just like on Miranda, and just like River rebelled against.

In America's War for Independence, The Colonies had been under English Crown rule and wanted independence, and ingrained Freedom into their Constitution. The Colonies had started as products of English Rule. In America's Civil War, the Conferrates wanted freedom from the Northern States, in much the same way. The Southern States had each applied and been accepted as members of the United States, and then changed their minds. The U.S. had already been a loose coalition of seperate States, it was only during and after the Civil War that Lincoln's work helped strenghten the Federal powers to bind the United States more strongly.

The Independent had already decided they wanted to be independent and Free. The Alliance decided to test if they were Brave. The Alliance won, and had Unification for 7 years until Mal got out the signal about Miranda.

In short, you are asking Why did the French fight in WWII against Hitler? Why did the English fight in WWII against Hitler - why not just lay down arms and be ruled by Hitler, how bad could it be? Why did the Russians fight in WWII against Hitler? Why did the Poles fight against Hitler in WWII? Why did the Americans fight against invading British in 1812? Why did Koreans, Chinese, Veits fight against Japan in WWII? Because (in WWII) Germany, Italy, and Japan were invading everybody so they could rule all of Earth (and they were winning on every front they fought, until Japan jumped the gun and attacked Pearl Harbor a couple years ahead of plan.)

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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:11 PM

TPAGE

Who knows exactly why the war started... but to take a current and controversial example: American involvement in ___ (not just Iraq); was there any reason to invade Iraq (besides having oil and not liking Saddam)? Not really but Bush did, and now you found that Iraqis are joining al-Queada or other insurgent groups; go figure!

But don't forget Joss explicitly mentions that Blue Sun (big corporation) and government are practically one and the same. Now think of the world and how many corporations, mostly American, push their weight around. There are countless stories of these corporations do naughty things in faraway countries.

While, rightfully or not, much of the world dislikes if not outright hates the US. Even within America the tide is turning towards dislike of the current government especially with passing of the Patriot Act and other such measures.

Maybe it might be a little far-fetched, but if you were to combine American corporations with the current American government you wouldn't be far from the Alliance. Far-reaching, almost total reach, on Earth between the two. American military forces are stationed all over the globe; American corporations are everywhere (from McDonald's to Coca-Cola to Wal-Mart to Nike to CNN to Microsoft).

Want did the Independents want to gain? Probably the same thing as al-Queada, for others to stop meddling in their homes.

(Side note: anyone heard that the US Government want to implement biometrically scan all 10 digits of Canadian Citizens upon entering the States within the next two years? Talk about big brother... all those Canucks that have been crashing planes and blowing up buildings...)

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

And if someday on some little piss-ant moon/My hand is a little too slow, or my aim a little bit off/At least I’ll go down fighting, not lying abed surrounded by quacks - "Sir Warrick" by Geezer

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Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:55 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Maybe it was just as simple as: they didn't want to be turned into reavers like the Alliance had already done on Miranda. Or, for that matter, any other guinea pig status lab rat.

That is not what FREEDOM and INDEPENDENCE is about.

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Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:01 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Maybe it was just as simple as: they didn't want to be turned into reavers like the Alliance had already done on Miranda. Or, for that matter, any other guinea pig status lab rat.

That is not what FREEDOM and INDEPENDENCE is about.

They would have hardly known about that.

No matter how things ended up turning out, I doubt the people who supported (or still do) the Alliance do it because they are Pro-Oppression! They probably see the benefits and don't have to experience the downsides, just like its opponents experience the downsides but don't get to experience the benefits.

The Alliance is the classic example of good intentions leading to hell. The practical application is where is all fails. Not enough resources to handle all the responsibility they loaded upon themselves. Too much control too little service. Doesn't mean they always intended to be that way.

Miranda, on the other hand, is something that hardly anyone knows about. That's what makes it so shocking and terrifying. It's a subset of people in the highest spheres of the Alliance. It's the darkest of the dark, a bad extreme come true, but not the Alliance in its entirety.

Looking at Jiangying, you see atrocities of a similar badness - though no scale - carried out with enthusiasm. Burning people alive? Well, too much independence will lead to such things, as well.

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Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:13 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

That is not what FREEDOM and INDEPENDENCE is about.

No matter how things ended up turning out, I doubt the people who supported (or still do) the Alliance do it because they are Pro-Oppression! They probably see the benefits and don't have to experience the downsides, just like its opponents experience the downsides but don't get to experience the benefits.

The Alliance is the classic example of good intentions leading to hell. The practical application is where is all fails. Not enough resources to handle all the responsibility they loaded upon themselves. Too much control too little service. Doesn't mean they always intended to be that way.

More accurately, the Alliance is the classic example of some people thinking that overwhelming government is a suitable substitute for a nanny, parent, welfare provider, and it should supplant the independence the human spirit needs.

Quote:

Looking at Jiangying, you see atrocities of a similar badness - though no scale - carried out with enthusiasm. Burning people alive? Well, too much independence will lead to such things, as well.

Perhaps you missed the point. Jiangying is not Independent, it is under Alliance control and responsibility under Unification. You are using the abominations of so-called enlightenment as coonfused examples of Independence.

On another point, in BDM Jayne states that the Alliance started the war, and Mal voluteered to fight it. The Independent worlds didn't start the war.

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Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:57 PM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

That is not what FREEDOM and INDEPENDENCE is about.

No matter how things ended up turning out, I doubt the people who supported (or still do) the Alliance do it because they are Pro-Oppression! They probably see the benefits and don't have to experience the downsides, just like its opponents experience the downsides but don't get to experience the benefits.

The Alliance is the classic example of good intentions leading to hell. The practical application is where is all fails. Not enough resources to handle all the responsibility they loaded upon themselves. Too much control too little service. Doesn't mean they always intended to be that way.

Looking at Jiangying, you see atrocities of a similar badness - though no scale - carried out with enthusiasm. Burning people alive? Well, too much independence will lead to such things, as well.

Perhaps you missed the point. Jiangying is not Independent, it is under Alliance control and responsibility under Unification. You are using the abominations of so-called enlightenment as coonfused examples of Independence.

Jiangying is part of the Alliance formally, as in the planet is somewhere in their files labeled "ours". But that doesn't mean anything, practically. Mal himself said that they wouldn't bother going to a backwater like Jiangying, so what about the abominations going on there is the product of Alliance enlightenment as opposed to the settlers up in the hills doing whatever it is that they want, same as if the Alliance wasn't there at all?

I was using it as an extreme example to show that being free of governmental control is not an immediate stamp of goodness.
There are black and white sides to everything and lots of grey in between. The fact that Mal hates the Alliance doesn't mean their 100% evil. Just like the Independents wouldn't have been all 100% good.
I think it's entirely possible that some political Independents in power on their "free" planets were every bit as oppressive as the Alliance is painted to be, only that they did it in their own name. To the people of that planet, the Alliance might have been a welcome chance at some order.

Quote:

On another point, in BDM Jayne states that the Alliance started the war, and Mal voluteered to fight it. The Independent worlds didn't start the war.

Never said they did, really, so... I'm presuming you didn't address this to me.

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Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

On another point, in BDM Jayne states that the Alliance started the war, and Mal voluteered to fight it. The Independent worlds didn't start the war.

Never said they did, really, so... I'm presuming you didn't address this to me.

Correct.

Alright, I admit to not recognizing the trick questions right off.
From the BDM:
Boy #1 (Borodin): Why ere the independents even fighting us? Why wouldn't they look to be more civilized?
Teacher: ...With all the social and medical advancements we can bring to the independents, why would they fight so hard against us?
Young River: We meddle. People don't like to be meddled with, we tell them what to do, what to think, don't run don't walk we're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We meddle.

Even 2 years younger than the rest of her class, River undrstands the concepts of freedom better than even some of us.

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Monday, December 3, 2007 7:01 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

On another point, in BDM Jayne states that the Alliance started the war, and Mal voluteered to fight it. The Independent worlds didn't start the war.

Never said they did, really, so... I'm presuming you didn't address this to me.

Correct.

Alright, I admit to not recognizing the trick questions right off.

I am not sure what trick questions you refer to but I notice you didn't address anything else I replied to you.

Quote:

From the BDM:
Boy #1 (Borodin): Why ere the independents even fighting us? Why wouldn't they look to be more civilized?
Teacher: ...With all the social and medical advancements we can bring to the independents, why would they fight so hard against us?
Young River: We meddle. People don't like to be meddled with, we tell them what to do, what to think, don't run don't walk we're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We meddle.

Even 2 years younger than the rest of her class, River undrstands the concepts of freedom better than even some of us.

She certainly doesn't look 2 years younger than the others... where do you take that idea from? Not to mention, this scene could easily be construed to be part of River's crazy dream landscape, considering the way it ends. I doubt River was spouting pro-Independent political thought back in the day, no matter how much of a genius. Quite simply because she seems perfectly content in all of her child flashbacks in the series and the River Tam sessions.

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Tuesday, December 4, 2007 8:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

Alright, I admit to not recognizing the trick questions right off.

I am not sure what trick questions you refer to but I notice you didn't address anything else I replied to you.

Quote:

From the BDM:
Boy #1 (Borodin): Why ere the independents even fighting us? Why wouldn't they look to be more civilized?
Teacher: ...With all the social and medical advancements we can bring to the independents, why would they fight so hard against us?
Young River: We meddle. People don't like to be meddled with, we tell them what to do, what to think, don't run don't walk we're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We meddle.

Even 2 years younger than the rest of her class, River undrstands the concepts of freedom better than even some of us.

She certainly doesn't look 2 years younger than the others... where do you take that idea from? Not to mention, this scene could easily be construed to be part of River's crazy dream landscape, considering the way it ends. I doubt River was spouting pro-Independent political thought back in the day, no matter how much of a genius. Quite simply because she seems perfectly content in all of her child flashbacks in the series and the River Tam sessions.

The script in the Serenity Official Companion clearly states in the opening classroom scene that River is 2 years younger than all her classmates.

The trick questions I refer to in this thread are the questions already answered in the series and movie, in fairly direct manner. I excerpted the explanation that River gives to the question posed by Borodin and the Teacher, which is strickingly similar to some of the questions in this thread. Often in discussions of movies, these types of "trick" questions are intentionally inserted into a discussion, and the actual correct response is to quote the movie/show line which asnwers the question in the work. I failed to immediately recall the questions as being already in the BDM, and thus floundered with indirect answers from other references in this body of work, this verse. These are the "trick" questions I referred to.

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Tuesday, December 4, 2007 9:16 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:

.... I notice you didn't address anything else I replied to you.

I did not want to drag this shiny thread to where my replies would have taken it. I did not intend to offend you, it was not a slight, it was not personal, I have avoided other replies for the same reasons.
I have reviewed the thread. The posts I made, although perhaps overly concise, were what I intended to say, and I stand by them, both as not needing change, and as contributions to the progress of this thread as I see it. I think that you have also posted your comments and replies in the way you wanted and how you thought you could contribute to this thread. I do not wish to bicker about details when I have already made the points I intended. I leave it up to the reader to decipher which has more or less validity. I don't see much point in repeating myself or requoting myself.

I suppose I could point out - not as direct response - that 4 years after Unification, The Alliance stills needs to recruit River to convert to a weapon. They already control everything in their verse - what do they need new weapons for? The military is essentially now the police, how much weaponry do they think they need to respond to crime? Or do they intend to continue to war against their own citizenry, ala the Clintons vs Branch Davidians?
For that matter, why does an all-loving, benevolent government need to have such a thing as an Operative, when everything is already Unified and Allied under the Axis Powers?
Also, there is a serious problem with disconnecting Responsibility from Authority, when neither of these can exist without the other - they are mutually dependent.

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Tuesday, December 4, 2007 11:08 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
And I'd like to ask a follow-up question...like the South during the Civil War, what did the independents really hope to gain? DId they really, for a second, think they could possibly defeat the Alliance with endless military resources? What did the Independents, like The South have....besides balls & bayonets as Badger said? What resources could they really have had, since they were dumped or re-located to these worlds with not too much in the way of comfort and technology, or arms I imagine? Did they think, even with some battle victories, that they keep the Alliance away forever?

Unlike the paid soldiers sucking at the teat of the Government (Alliance) the independents had ideals and heart, like Rocky.

And just like how in real life, Sylvester Stallone would have gotten his butt whooped by Mike Tyson, the Independents had little or no chance of ever winning from the very beginning, and I don't imagine that many were ever under the impression that the opposite were true.

That definately doesn't mean that it wasn't the right choice to sacrafice and fight to the bitter end though. They were rabid animals backed into the corner and threatened to be caged and they lashed out, more often than not, at the cost of their own lives.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, December 4, 2007 11:18 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
And I'd like to ask a follow-up question...like the South during the Civil War, what did the independents really hope to gain? DId they really, for a second, think they could possibly defeat the Alliance with endless military resources? What did the Independents, like The South have....besides balls & bayonets as Badger said? What resources could they really have had, since they were dumped or re-located to these worlds with not too much in the way of comfort and technology, or arms I imagine? Did they think, even with some battle victories, that they keep the Alliance away forever?

Unlike the paid soldiers sucking at the teat of the Government (Alliance) the independents had ideals and heart, like Rocky.

And just like how in real life, Sylvester Stallone would have gotten his butt whooped by Mike Tyson, the Independents had little or no chance of ever winning from the very beginning, and I don't imagine that many were ever under the impression that the opposite were true.

That definately doesn't mean that it wasn't the right choice to sacrafice and fight to the bitter end though. They were rabid animals backed into the corner and threatened to be caged and they lashed out, more often than not, at the cost of their own lives.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned."

I had thought the war lasted several years. There were numerous outer "independent" worlds, and they apparently united against the Alliance in the war. The Alliance was just the core worlds, out of hundreds. The Alliance needed to travel out to the Independents to combat them. Therefore the Independents actually had the superior defensive position, to be firmly entrenched - look to the VietCong, the Afghani mountain rebels, the Iwo Jima cavecrawlers as examples.
These were not insurmountable odds. Also, since Zoe was referred to as "career army" this indicates each (or some) Independent world had an Army itself.
There would be many reasons to consider this was not a futile attempt at defeating the Empire...errr, Alliance.
Just like every American Saturday in the fall, teams take to the field of gridiron battle to see who wins, regardless of who was supposed to be the victor on paper.

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Tuesday, December 4, 2007 11:24 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by TPage:
Maybe it might be a little far-fetched, but if you were to combine American corporations with the current American government you wouldn't be far from the Alliance. Far-reaching, almost total reach, on Earth between the two. American military forces are stationed all over the globe; American corporations are everywhere (from McDonald's to Coca-Cola to Wal-Mart to Nike to CNN to Microsoft).

Not so far fetched when you figure that before many of us proles were aware of it, China had been developing into quite the superpower.

Personally, I don't see how any person would be able to resist losing their privacy and freedom had Corpo-America and Corpo-China were to pool their resources and make it so. I have little doubt in my mind that the extents to which this is already happening are greater than Joss could have even imagined.

Joss showed us (in interplanetary fasion) what is to happen to us when this almost inevitable union's intentions have come to the forefront, and trust me.... the day that it is clearly visible to the public, it will be FAR too late to do anything to reverse it. Today's technology, though our greatest pastime, will ultimately be the tool that brings us all (in many cases happily) under one unified rule.

Take away the ability of man to chose for himself and you have taken his humanity.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Wednesday, December 5, 2007 12:34 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I had thought the war lasted several years. There were numerous outer "independent" worlds, and they apparently united against the Alliance in the war. The Alliance was just the core worlds, out of hundreds. The Alliance needed to travel out to the Independents to combat them.

That's the drift that I caught.

Think about today though. How many people live in America compared to the rest of the world?

300,000,000 compared to the other 6,200,000,000 people on the planet. If you believe everything you hear on the news (which is very foolish of you if you do) everyone in the world, including many Americans, hate America and its foreign policy. This has been going on for MANY years, and I have yet a real worry about somebody being powerful enough or have enough desire to try to take us down.

One reason, for instance, is that it's popular (and with very good reason, I would suppose) to hate America if you aren't American. But does that mean that everyone else is ready to side with China or Russia against us and risk bringing the beast of Communism on their shores in the process?

Another reason would be our ideal position on the globe. What the Europeans didn't have in WWI and WWII that we benefited from is two very large oceans on both sides, a population of people who are very ready to fight to the south, and the cast of Saturday Night Live to the North. Any attempt at an attack on America (before the spread of today's technology and the fact that we don't have ANY border control today) would have been as futile as Sauron's attack on Helm's Deep. We just have such a huge advantage given the geographical playing field.

Third reason would be that, though I don't doubt many of the Independents did band together, like you said, the Alliance had the "center" of the 'verse. Right in the middle of a lot of unification which could have taken place otherwise.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Wednesday, December 5, 2007 6:06 PM

NCBROWNCOAT

I just found this thread and it's been interesting reading the posts. As an American Studies major (OK, it was a long time ago) and a history buff most of the answers that I've read are very good and are very valid reasons for Mal to fight.

Why any one chooses to go into a volunteer military and freely choose to fight for one's country, state, locality or even block are as many and varied as there are soldiers.

I think it would make an interesting fic for someone to write about this subject. I've touched on the subject but haven't explored I've only touched the surface lightly.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

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