Out of Gas by rallem

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Out of Gas

POSTED BY: RALLEM
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 16:53
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VIEWED: 2323
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Sunday, December 16, 2007 6:01 PM

I just noticed something from "Out of Gas," in the beginning when Mal is laying on the deck and then Mal & Zoe walked in Zoe asked what's that and the pair stepped around where the injured Mal was. In episodes of this show on Wikipedia there is a section called foreshadowing. Could this be a form of foreshadowing?

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Sunday, December 16, 2007 9:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Foreshadowing is supposed to be for us, the viewer. WE already know Mal is there, so this would not be foreshadowing for us.
They make it sound like it is some previously living thing, or debris from same (as an excuse to walk around it), but it is certainly intended to marry the two timelines.

Foreshadowing would be when the "rescue" captain asks if Mal is intending to ambush him when he comes to help.
Foreshadowing also normally occurs in Firefly when River makes a comment, because that usually foretells what is going to happen.

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Monday, December 17, 2007 4:12 AM

RALLEM

I believe that the foreshadowing is a little deeper than that, but River's psychic ability does seem to lend most of the foreshadowing to her. For instance when she was a child and saw Wash’s dinosaurs, and other such trivial stuff, but others do have the ability like when Jayne points out that Inara’s shuttle stinks and she mentions that it is incense, which leads to the movie Serenity where Inara saves Mal with her flash bomb. In Out of Gas, I believe that when Zoe and Mal walk around in disgust what ever was left there by an animal living there it was intended as both a foreshadowing and a dig into Mal. I am not really certain that foreshadowing is exactly the correct term though since it all happened in the same episode.

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Monday, December 17, 2007 5:36 AM

MAL4PREZ

According to wikipedia: "Foreshadowing is a literary device in which an author drops subtle hints about plot developments to come later in the story." It's generally used so that when the plot twists, the reader/viewer isn't surprised to the point of losing suspension of disbelief. As JSF says, we already know Mal is going to be there, on the deck. The "step around" line doesn't foreshadow a thing.

A proper, if heavy-handed, use of foreshadowing in this episode is when Simon uses the adrenaline on Zoe, which explains to us what Mal is doing when he sticks a needle in his own chest.

The "just walk around" seems like mostly a fun way of tying the timelines together, which they do a whole bunch of in this episode (and it's brilliant!). I'm not sure what the technical term for that would be...

My take is that since all these flashback scenes are memories/hallucinations of injured Mal's, he places himself there and makes Past Mal and Past Zoe walk around him.

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, December 18, 2007 11:47 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
According to wikipedia: "Foreshadowing is a literary device in which an author drops subtle hints about plot developments to come later in the story." It's generally used so that when the plot twists, the reader/viewer isn't surprised to the point of losing suspension of disbelief. As JSF says, we already know Mal is going to be there, on the deck. The "step around" line doesn't foreshadow a thing.

A proper, if heavy-handed, use of foreshadowing in this episode is when Simon uses the adrenaline on Zoe, which explains to us what Mal is doing when he sticks a needle in his own chest.

The "just walk around" seems like mostly a fun way of tying the timelines together, which they do a whole bunch of in this episode (and it's brilliant!). I'm not sure what the technical term for that would be...

My take is that since all these flashback scenes are memories/hallucinations of injured Mal's, he places himself there and makes Past Mal and Past Zoe walk around him.

I don't think your example is actually foreshadowing, sorry. Not recalling the correct term, but it is a device possibly known as "instructional scene or ploy or character". For example, in a technical situation, a "newbie" character is inserted so that the experienced characters have to explain to the newbie how everything works, instead of having a Narrarator or in book form just a background explanation. This is to instruct the AUDIENCE, not the newbie who is not an otherwise needed character. This explanation/instruction is so that the audience can follow along with what the story is and the primary characters already know, and the audience can understand significant occurences in the film when they happen, without further explanation.

In OoG, these are used throughout, the scene immediately prior to Mal finding the adrenaline is the scene with the adrenealine for Zoe, which is used both as a tie-in transition between the 2 scenes, but alsothe Zoe scene is the instructional scene for Mal in the Infirmary. Same connection between Kaylee showing Mal exactly where the catalyzer goes in the engine, so the audience will understand (as well as Mal) when he silently puts it in, and the RED BUTTON that Wash installs, which the camera shows that Mal (alone and silently) doesn't get to.

To say these were foreshadowing would be to say that Mal agreeing to never call Inara a whore again is foreshadowing the Pilot and every episode prior to this one, so I think we can agree that foreshadowing isn't quite the correct term for this plot device. Wish I could remember the actual correct term for this.

Foreshadowing by River in OoG would be when somebody says "what was that" and River says "Fire" before anybody else knows.

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Wednesday, December 19, 2007 12:25 AM

ANDMAN

I'd say it's kinda sorta foreshadowing, judging by what's been said to describe foreshadowing. The Foreshadowing however I say lies in the plotline, rather than the episode shown. We already know that Mal is lying there when they walk around him, so not foreshadowing.

HOWEVER:

If we look at it from the character's perspective, they walk around something (presumabley)dead, which happens later on in life to be where Mal lays, bleeding, remembering that moment. So in that sense, foreshadowing. It doesn't apply to us, but to the characters.

Anybody who disagrees with any of this violently can do so. But no matter what you do, "You can't take the sky from me".

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Wednesday, December 19, 2007 5:28 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
I don't think your example is actually foreshadowing, sorry.

OK, I agree... if we say that Mal and his needle aren't a plot element. I mean, you're right that the scene with Zoe is instructional, but isn't foreshadowing by definition instructional? It gives us information that applies to the future plot. If we're paying attention enough to catch the foreshadowing, it might even allow us to foresee what the writer is planning. The Zoe needle does that... if we had time to think about it, we might have guessed that maybe injured Mal was going to need to make use of this same trick. But then, the Mal needle isn't really plot, just a statement of his condition, physically and mentally, so yeah. Doesn't apply.

I think River saying "fire" isn't foreshadowing either. I can't see that this line is there to help with the plot - it's about characterization, showing River's uncanny abilities. The whole dinner scene is largely put together to describe the characters, as is discussed in the commentary, and I think this is a continuation of that.

In fact, it's kind of hard to come up with straight-up foreshadowing in OoG, given how twisty it is! Maybe... actually, I think Wash describing the red button to Mal is foreshadowing. As soon as he says that line about the miracle getting there, we can guess that Mal's going to be needing to use that button eventually, to call everyone back. So it foreshadows the coming plot. A bit of a red herring, since the red button doesn't get pushed, but still foreshadowing.

Andman: can't agree! Foreshadowing is a tool used by the writer, not the characters. Unless you're suggesting that Mal and Zoe were psychic in the flashback, or that the things living on Serenity years ago somehow knew to leave their nastiness right where Mal would fall... but that's just silly!

This little exchange between past Mal and Zoe doesn't provide any clarification or hint as to plot. All it does is tie the present time frame to that of the flashback - for the viewers, and for hallucinating Mal. No one else can see the connection.

Quote:
To say these were foreshadowing would be to say that Mal agreeing to never call Inara a whore again is foreshadowing the Pilot and every episode prior to this one...

Huh? I don't get the similarity to your other examples at all! All I see in the whore line is a joke - Mal making a promise we already know he won't keep.

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Wednesday, December 19, 2007 6:01 AM

PHYRELIGHT

In film school, there is a phenomenon amongst students called "digging for anything relevant". Usually, this occurs among lower-classmen when it comes time to write papers, and occasionally, it happens in class to impress the professor.

I had one professor who pointed this out to us on the first day of class, then accused us of suffering from it for the rest of the semester, even when we know were right about something! (I still maintain that the animal print clothing and furs Mrs. Robinson wears throughout The Graduate is symbolic of her sexually predatorial behavior.)

I'm only warning you guys not to develop this problem, because someone can easily prove you wrong later.

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Wednesday, December 19, 2007 6:13 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by PhyreLight:
I'm only warning you guys not to develop this problem, because someone can easily prove you wrong later.

So... we should quit discussing, lest we appear foolish for discussing too much? Have you noticed that this is a fan site, full of obsessive fans who do nothing but discuss too much?

I mean, if I wanted to be properly behaved, I'd go sit in on an English class, not come here...

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Wednesday, December 19, 2007 6:35 AM

PHYRELIGHT

I didn't say stop discussing. There are some interesting connections that I've never noticed here before, like Zoe and Mal stepping around the spot where he is later nearly bleeding to death. (To the characters, it's foreshadowing; to the audience, it's a callback.)

I said not to grasp at things that might not be relevant, like saying the conversation that Kaylee and Inara have in "The Train Job" about brushing clients' hair is a foreshadowing Inara sleeping with the female councilor. I'm really saying is that you should ask yourself if it is relevant before posting it here.

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Wednesday, December 19, 2007 6:40 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by PhyreLight:
I'm really saying is that you should ask yourself if it is relevant before posting it here.

If someone is posting it, obviously they think it's relevant.

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Wednesday, December 19, 2007 7:30 AM

DAVESHAYNE

While what we have here isn't strictly speaking foreshadowing there is a textbook example of it linked to this episode. It goes all the way back to Serenity: The Episode.

Kaylee: I'd really like to get a new compression coil.

Mal: And I'd like to be the king of all Londinium and wear a shiny hat. Just get us some passengers. Them as can pay.

Kaylee: Compression coil busts were drifting.

Mal: Best not bust then.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

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Wednesday, December 19, 2007 7:40 AM

RALLEM

Ok, so I am an idiot who cannot tell simple foreshadowing. I would invite somebody to sue me, but as messed up as our "justice" system is they just might be able to, so please don't.

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Wednesday, December 19, 2007 8:07 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Foreshadowing would be when the "rescue" captain asks if Mal is intending to ambush him when he comes to help.

This is the kind of thing I think about when talking about foreshadowing. It sets up the idea of an ambush and makes it credible in the viewer's mind without coming out and saying, "Hey, there's going to be an ambush."

Some of the other examples I'm less sure about, certainly Kaylee talking about the compression coil in Serenity and The Train Job is foreshadowing the engine trouble, but is River saying, "Fire," foreshadowing the explosion? I'd tend towards, "No," and call it a part of the event itself.

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Wednesday, December 19, 2007 8:59 AM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by rallem:
Ok, so I am an idiot who cannot tell simple foreshadowing.

Sorry for piling on. Nobody thinks your an idiot. We just have a better notion of what is usually meant by the term foreshadowing.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

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Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:53 PM

TRAVELER

I just thought it was funny because Mal didn't know what Zoe was asking about until she pointed directly at it. Mal is so in love with Serenity that the ships faults escape him. It shows to me that from the very beginning Zoe is to be Ying to Mal's Yang. Wash accused her of being Mal's war buddy; true, but Mal and Zoe often disagreed. The fact is that she trusts Mal and returns that trust. You notice in "Out of Gas" Zoe is the one who awakens and has their shuttle turn back to rescue Mal. She would not have deserted him if she was not in a coma. So she had to be knocked out for the plot line to take its course and then awaken for the end.

Bouncing from present to different periods of the past is not easy in liturature or film, but as we know by "Out of Gas" it is effective. You just can't use it much. Joss has given us views of the past, but only to show us more of a sense of one of the characters. Like the war episodes with Mal and Zoe or the life style of River and Simon.

Then there are the characters that never receive this treatment. How many threads come up about Book's past? We never see any scene of Book's past. So it can be just as compelling to never venture into one's past life as it is to see Mal showing off his new pride to Zoe who has to step around some gross substance on the deck of not yet functioning Serenity.

Is the statement a foreshadowing? I think not, but the whole scene is a foreshadowing. It says that there will be times when Zoe disagrees with Mal and lets him know it. Remember the look she gave Mal when he foolishly insults Kaylee about the fancy dress in the window. The look Zoe gave Mal said more than any words could have. But that does not diminish the trust, respect and love they have for each other.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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