Prostitutes by SouthernSlayer

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Prostitutes

POSTED BY: SOUTHERNSLAYER
UPDATED: Sunday, May 23, 2004 08:08
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Thursday, April 22, 2004 3:31 PM

Hi. I got to thinking (it's okay, when it starts raining fire and birds start inexplicibly flying into windows then you can start to worry) assuming companions are desendant of prostitutes what do you think made them as widely respected as they have now become?

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Thursday, April 22, 2004 3:45 PM

TALVIN

Afraid I have to disagree with your assumption in some sense.

I don't see the Companions as descendants of Prostitutes. I see them more as a descendant of the Geisha, Professional Escort, and Sex Therapist occupations. They are courtesans, which implies a very different focus from that of the prostitute. Superficially, yes, they appear to be just "really classy call-girls". However, they have a lot more in common with the ideal of the Geisha and her various sisters in history. Those were highly respected people with their own special status.

Of course, we as a society tend to lump prostitution under the lowest common denominator, which is fallacious. I am not trying to defend or promote the RL practice of it, but while the vast majority do it to support a habit and/or a family out of desperation, there ARE a few artists left in the trade, and some others that fall in between somewhere.

And like Companions, they cater to an exclusive (and rich) clientele, they generally do enjoy their work, and you don't want to make their blacklist.

The ironic thing about Companions which diverges from both historical and modern "Companions" and the regular prostitute--no sense of connection to organized crime.

Still pondering that angle.

"I give up. I admit it. I'm a Browncoat."

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Thursday, April 22, 2004 3:51 PM

SOUTHERNSLAYER

Thanks Talvin. Great insight. Having read your post Im definately in support of your view. Thanks again.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Friday, April 23, 2004 3:23 AM

KNIBBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by Talvin:
The ironic thing about Companions which diverges from both historical and modern "Companions" and the regular prostitute--no sense of connection to organized crime.
"

Geisha and Courtesans from 15th-19th century Europe had no connections to organized crime.

The only time organized crime gets involved is when there is money to be made -- for them.

It is laws making prostitution illegal that opens the door for organized crime. Prohibition proved, "People want their vices." By pushing liquor production underground, our government only put honest tax payers out of work and opened up a brand new frontier to killers.

It's better to legislate and control the vices rather than make the vices illegal and thereby turn all the profits over to criminals and lose tax dollars on top of that.

Companions fill a role in society. They are licensed and regulated. You can bet Inara's waves include regular posts to her bank and tax advisor.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Friday, April 23, 2004 3:58 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

I've been reading a book lately entitled "Spring Moon: A Novel of China" about the Boxer Rebellion and Chinese period of acclimation to the more western cultures. The chapters often open with poetry, songs, historical tidbits, and Chinese tales, which is where I read about a buddhist convent that was in danger of closing its doors:

Quote:
"But the Mother Superior had been the scorned widow of a grand house, and losing her home a second time was unthinkable. A woman of great resourcefulness, she took drastic though not unprecedented steps. No longer would the younger, more comely nuns save their heads. Instead she taught them to paint their faces and saw that they donned gowns of silk and learned the arts of conversation, of the solicitation and return of favors, of sexual pleasure.

"These special nuns were then assigned to overnight guests and to the many cultivated patrons who made regular contributions to the convent's treasury. And while most ladies of the gentry continued to visit the retreat to pray, a few, for a certain sum, found it suitable as well for the conduct of more worldly affairs.

"Thus was the business of mortals conducted together with that of the gods, without any conflict of interest or violation of propriety, and the home of the homeless preserved."

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Friday, April 23, 2004 1:43 PM

LEMAT

Traditional Geishas, as I understand them, are not--and were not--prostitutes. They were profesional hostesses. They were the primary entertainment at dinners attended by men. They were there to stroke the ego's of the male dinner guests, and provide a relaxed atmosphere where discussion and male bonding could occur. They might have been the mistresses of important men, but they were sexually exculsive to that man. They evoled in Japan as competition to prostitutes, who also attended banquets--the difference was, the geisha would provide companionship to men during the banquet, without the men having to pay for sexual favors later. The geisha was paid a fee for the evening. They displaced prostitutes in this role in Japan, while the courtesan fulfilled both roles in parts of Europe.

Inara and the companions are, IMHO, more like courtesans with heavy elements of geisha tradition. Maybe some geisha saw an openning in prostitution and took it, but it seems likly that the Guild formed from an alliance of both eastern and western "professional women"--including geishas--and everyone realized that adopting the geisha traditions would be the most conducive to creating or maintaining a high status for guild members.

Jon

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Friday, April 23, 2004 2:02 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Neat topic. And many well said comments. I just saw HoG last night (again) and always am amused at how Inara calls Nandi's girls 'whores'....only to then go onto explain the difference between them and companions. I noted that, aside from the sex part, Companions are schooled in a great number of social graces and such. From dancing, fencing, music to where the small calibur hand gun goes at a place setting. hee hee.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:42 AM

LUPINADDAMS

Nee how-ma,

first post from a newbie to the site but a long-standing fan of the show.

There is an almost exact correllate to Companions in sci-fi TV already - and gorram if it's not in the original Battlestar Galactica. (Of which I am not a fan at all, but I remember it well from my youth - don't get me started on the remake...)

They're called Sociolators (in BG the main cast had one called Cassiopeia, played by Laurette Spang). They have almost exactly the same status in their society as Companions (with a bigoted minority still thinking of them as whores of course) and fulfil the same function of courtesan/counselor/geisha. Of course this was only really touched on (ahem) in the pilot and sidelined in the series...

Another very 'funny *and* sexy' SF look at how prostitution 'could be' is in the Lady Sally novels of Spider Robinson (Callahan's Lady and Lady Slings the Booze and ) - note these are very adult in content.

Hope this little historical sidenote is at least entertaining...

Lupin

"You are what you do."
Andrew Vacchs

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:09 AM

MENELUIN

All excellent posts. I don't really have an answer to your questions, but regarding Companions, I just wanted to say that I was absolutely floored and shocked when Inara's profession was first presented. Now she's one of my favorite characters, mostly because she is very motherly in some ways, and sure to look after River and Kaylee when needed.

~~~~~~~~
http://www.thepaperbackwriter.com
AIM: KingArthursPiano
E-mail/MSN: sgtpprsgrl@hotmail.com

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 2:20 PM

GRACEOM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Neat topic. And many well said comments. I just saw HoG last night (again) and always am amused at how Inara calls Nandi's girls 'whores'....only to then go onto explain the difference between them and companions.

I need to watch it again myself, but my impression was that part of what drives Inara's decision to leave Serenity is the realization that the distinction between whores and companions is...maybe not so much of a distinction as she had taught herself to believe. I think Mal's constant harping, and the little incidents with clients where we've seen her made to feel uncomfortable, have piled up...into some big questions that she's either planning to run from, or that she does want to face (but not in front in Mal).

It will be so interesting to see where the movie picks up her story.

Grace

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 2:35 PM

GRACEOM

Quote:
Originally posted by SouthernSlayer:
Hi. I got to thinking (it's okay, when it starts raining fire and birds start inexplicibly flying into windows then you can start to worry) assuming companions are desendant of prostitutes what do you think made them as widely respected as they have now become?

I think it's interesting that companions are sort of officially respectable, but it's clear that even their clients don't always respect them...

Makes me wonder who really controls the Guild. Powerful men who want to control access to a set of particularly desirable women? It seems that potential clients not only have to be rich, they have to be on some kind of "approved" list that they can be struck off of for bad behavior to the women--or perhaps (one might imagine) other...incorrect actions or beliefs.

While the companions seem superficially to have a fair amount of self-determination and control (i.e. they choose which applicants to accept, they can blacklist badly behaved clients), still, I think we've been given hints that the glamour of a companion's life may be fairly shallow, and that the very skills needed for a companion to successfully anticipate her clients' every need and desire...are perhaps in the long term more than a little destructive to the companion's own sense of self-worth.

Just a ramble...

Grace

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 5:27 PM

OUTTATHEWORLD

Much more like escorts than geishas, in that sex is an expected (and not readily refusable) part of the service paid for. Also clearly more respected within their own circles than in the society at large (thus both Atherton's reaction and the lord's attitude toward her in Shindig). Actually, the general attitude toward Companions (the actual one, not the "socially correct" one) is very similar to today's attitude toward "real" escorts.

Inara can clearly not both stay with Mal and pursue her career (which makes her independent). Good a man as Mal is, he couldn't tolerate her way of making a living- and she knows it.

...Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:16 PM

ROCKETJOCK

I had a high school teacherwho liked to run Einstein-style thought experiments with his students; once, when the subject of prostitution came up, he suggested the following: Imagine a parallel world where all the taboos and mores we associate with sex are focused on food and eating instead.

Picture it; you have to pick just one person to cook for you your entire life. "Nice people" of course, don't cook for each other before they're married -- so you have no way to know if your spouse is a good cook or not -- not that you're supposed to care. You're in love, so you have to be satisfied with the way they cook, good or bad.

And of course, the idea of people cooking for money is just disgusting. Sick. Don't they have any morals?

Naturally, if someone gets food poisoning it's a terrible embarassment; I mean, nice people just don't get that, do they?

The upside of this funhouse-mirror world is that everyone is totally relaxed about sex.

"Well, do we just stay home and f**k each other tonight?"

"What, leftovers again?"

"Saves money."

"Yeah, but I'm tired of the same old thing. Why don't we splurge and f**k Italian tonight?"

"Umm. How about Chinese instead?"

"I don't know. An hour after you f**k Chinese you're horny again."

My apologies if this has offended anyone, and doubly so, if this all appears off topic -- somehow it seemed relevant to a thread on prostitution.

"You can't enslave a free man. The most you can do is kill him." -- Robert A. Heinlein

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 8:57 PM

JUMPY

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
Traditional Geishas, as I understand them, are not--and were not--prostitutes. They were profesional hostesses. They were the primary entertainment at dinners attended by men. They were there to stroke the ego's of the male dinner guests, and provide a relaxed atmosphere where discussion and male bonding could occur.
Jon

Yep you are right LeMat. I saw a documentary a while back on discovery or National Geographic channel but yeh that's exactly what they were doing.

__________________________
There's no show I'd rather see, than the one with Serenity.
You can't take the sky from me...

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:40 PM

HUMBLE

Inara had to leave Serenity because she's in love with Mal. She couldn't come to terms with the fact that Mal "cheated" on her with another woman. This in spite of the fact that she's a Companion. Maybe there's an unwritten rule for Companions not to fall in love or form romantic attachments as this would conflict with business. Also, I think Companions are not prostitutes in the meaner sense of the word. They are sort of like high-classed escorts/ladies as opposed to street-walkers. Educated in ettiquette and manners, dress and speech so as not to bring embarrassment to their clients. For these services their rich clients are willing to pay top dollar. Just my two cents anyway.

Word to the not-so-wise: Never kiss 'em on the mouth!

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:16 PM

CALHOUN

I've never had to see/use a prostitute but I am reassured by their presence in the world.

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Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:08 AM

ANNIK

Nothing to add to comments/research here about Inara's role per se.

But ... I still snigger every time we watch "HoG", since the 'classic' Hollywood movie is about the prostitute with a heart of gold, who gets rescued by some passing, handsome stranger, or does the rescuing herself at great personal sacrifice.

I love that HoG turns that on its ear ... sure, a bunch of good-looking strangers show up to help, but at the gal's request and the gals themselves take a very active role in the ass-whupping that goes on that day. Lovely!

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

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