Here's How It Is... Or Not by 34cygni

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Here's How It Is... Or Not

POSTED BY: 34CYGNI
UPDATED: Thursday, April 29, 2004 08:42
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2743
PAGE 1 of 1

Monday, April 26, 2004 7:52 PM

Okay, fellow travelers, I've been lurking around these parts long enough, an' ah reckon it's past time for me to (a) say hello -- and to that end: howdy, stranger... mind if I smoke? -- and (b) stake out my little piece of prairie sod with a longwinded "this is how I see the Firefly universe" post.

By way of establishing my bona fides, I was hooked on the series from the very first episode. Granted, "The Train Job" was far from the best of the lot, but the moment Niska's thug went airborne and disappeared into the maw of Serenity's port engine was the moment I knew I'd be back every week for the forseeable future (barring the month of October, during which "Firefly" was inexplicably preempted by baseball games, if memory serves). I progressed rapidly through the Four Phases of Firefly Fandom --

Enthusiasm: "This show has a lot of potential..."

Happiness: "This show is really good."

Joy: "This show is the best new series to come down the pike in a month of Sundays!"

Bliss: "Sorry, but I can't go out on Friday night. Any Friday night. Ever."

Then, of course, Fox pulled the rug out from under us because the show wasn't pulling the right demographic mix. At least I got my Friday nights back.

But now, against all odds, our beloved Serenity is poised to fly again. Unfortunately, we've got an entire year to fill with naught but rumor and speculation. I'm afraid I'm not tied into any rumor mills that this crowd might value, so I can offer only speculation. I hope it's of some interest.

Without further ado...

1. The Firmament

Is Firefly set in a single solar system or in an interstellar civilization? To my mind, the answer is unambiguous: Serenity is a starship.

Why? Well, leaving aside the many explicit references to the "galaxy" made repeatedly in the show's dialogue, we have never heard so much as a passing reference to any of the major bodies in the solar system of Earth-That-Was. It is therefore unreasonable to suppose that the series is set in our native system. In turn. this implies that either we have to go out of our way to rationalize a one-time-only interstellar migration to a new solar system, or else interstellar travel is routine. The latter seems easier to swallow, particularly given that humanity has mastered gravity so as to obviate a whole bunch of expensive special effects and flying actors around on wires and all. Mastery of gravity implies that physicists long ago discovered a Grand Unification Theory -- and once you know the rules, you can start thinking about how to break them.

I think a lot of the confusion on the FTL issue stems from the fact that Joss, bless his soul, just doesn't grok outer space at all. Or at least, he didn't when he was working on the series... I'm sure plenty of people have pointed out that his very terrestrial sense of speed and distance is laughably out of place in the black, so I won't rant about it here.

Finally, Joss appears to be a canny fellow, and I don't think he would intentionally limit his Big Damn Sci-Fi Show to a single solar system because, well, it's kind of limiting. Who knows -- if the series ever comes back to life, it may someday be dramatically necessary (for which you should probably read, "one of the writers may come up with an irresistibly wacky idea") to blow up a star and destroy an entire solar system. Doubtless it would be River who figures out how to do it, and Zoe who does the impossible and actually pulls the trigger... but that's another conversation entirely.

2. The Nature Of The Alliance

As others have pointed out before me, the Alliance's flag indicates that it was forged out of an alliance between the United States and China (communist China, at that!). Presumably the US went authoritarian, China went capitalist, and they met upon the middle ground of fascism. From what we've seen in the show, the Alliance is a surveillance state in which police powers are vested in the military and merely venturing into an unmonitored neighborhood or stepping inside a police station is noted, logged, and can come back to haunt you.

With the obvious thus out of the way, I'm going to take a wild stab at filling in a critical piece of the Alliance's as-yet-unknown backstory -- which will doubtless be proven laughably wrong by events in the BDM. With any luck at all, this post will be long forgotten by then.

I believe that the Alliance is secretly controlled by a malevolent AI, or perhaps a community of malevolent AIs. Or some sort of horrible hybrid entity assembled from multiple human minds, or a fusion of human and artificial minds, or something along those lines... Use your imagination -- maybe the original founders of the Alliance had their minds uploaded into a computer and have been running the show for the last 500 years. (I can see it now: "George_W_Bush.exe runtime error. Unknown or illegal command. Abort, Retry, or Fail?") For purposes of discussion I shall refer to this sinister, controlling ubermind simply as an AI.

My guess is that Blue Sun, the ubiquitous megacorporation, is wholly controlled by the AI. The purpose of a corporate business entity is to remove the onus of individual responsibility for collective actions, so really, who would notice -- who would _want_ to notice -- if humans were entirely absent from the decision making process? Especially if BS turned out to be more profitable under the leadership of the AI...

Through Blue Sun and its many subsidiaries, the malevolent AI is able to influence, if not direct, government policy without having to deal with the complications of actually running the government. Better to let us icky, squirmy, biological lifeforms look after ourselves as much as possible for the time being -- why would an AI want to devote any of its attention to juggling the demands of different political factions or working damage control in the event of a scandal? But through Blue Sun, the AI can bribe, cajole, threaten, blackmail, or even stage an embargo of some critical product or service to get its way on the issues that really matter to it.

As for what the AI's ultimate goal might be... Well, so far we only have one real clue as to its intentions: if one accepts the premise that an evil AI controls the Alliance, then it was presumably the motivating force behind Unification. If the AI drove the Alliance to extend and enforce its control over the whole of the human race, then it must have big plans for us.

And that just can't be good.

3. Why An Evil AI?

Dramatic convenience. There has to be a dragon for Our Heroes to slay, and frankly, I just can't see the climax of the series coming when Mal and Zoe burst into a dimly lit corporate boardroom and force the Chairman and CEO of Blue Sun to acknolwedge his malfeasance.

More saliently, we do have one major clue as to the nature of the beast: when Simon scans River's brain in "Ariel", she says, "They come out of the byte. They come when you call." In fact, judging by a little flourish in the holographic special effect that Simon and Jayne seem to miss, simply scanning River's brain might have been enough to catch the AI's attention well before the hospital's contingent of Federals registered the capture of the Tam siblings.

A sci-fi setting demands a sci-fi foe. The possibility of demons and vampires showing up aboard Serenity seems happily remote, and we know for certain that there are no sentient aliens out there in the black. The sci-fi foe must therefore be a monster of our own creation, such as the Reavers. Or an evil ubermind hiding in the hardware.

Plus, the Alliance-spanning, futuristic, (presumably) faster-than-light version of the Internet in the show is called the Cortex. Am I the only one who finds that vaguely creepifying?

4. Who Are The Bluehands?

Agents/avatars/incarnations of the malevolent AI that allow it the option of using force in meatspace. Like the man said: sometimes, if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

As for what they are, androids or holographic projections just aren't sufficiently horrific, so I'd put my money on them being some sort of engineered human beings. Maybe they are...

a) cybernetically enslaved, and perhaps even aware of the atrocities they carry out
b) bioengineered empty shells (clones?) that were never permitted to develop human minds in the first place
c) fully aware human beings who have been conditioned ("brainwashed") to willingly and enthusiastically do the bidding of the malevolent AI

5. Why Are The Bluehands After River?

River (and other genius children) are being surgically altered to serve as components of the AI. Probably not the core mind, but as sensory appendages and information filters -- the AI needs them for "datamining," if I have my buzzwords correct.

The human brain has been engineered through millions of years of evolution to carry out one function, in particular, absolutely superbly: identifying patterns in our environment. On a fundamental, biological level it's literally who we are and what we do. Most of human behavior and culture is predicated on spotting patterns and figuring out how we can turn them to our advantage.

And that's precisely what River was being used for: the malevolent AI was sifting mountains of information through her skull. Her brain has been artfully damaged ("She feels everything. She can't not.") to maximize her sensitivity and response to patterns in the data. Even after being rescued, her brain is still constantly looking for patterns and connections and trying to report them to the AI. Because she's no longer connected to the system and whatever formal communication protocols it used to get information in and out of her head, all poor River can do is babble ("Is it bad that what she just said made perfect sense to me?"). River's apparent psychic powers are, I think, an illusion born of her heightened perceptions, shattered mind, and freakishly high IQ.

Doubtless the AI long ago identified several categories of people who could be "optimized" to perform useful tasks for it, not just genius children. Perhaps the people selected to become Bluehands showed a predisposition for sociopathic behavior or had genetic markers associated with schizophrenia, for example.

6. Well, If You're So Gorram Smart, What's The Deal With Book?

He's a Big Damn Hero and a casualty of war, just like Mal, except Book fought for the wrong side and ultimately found God instead of rejecting Him. After the war, Book took an honorable discharge and retreated into a new life as a monk. Now he feels secure enough in his faith to put himself to the test by leaving the safe environment of the abbey. The name "Book" is almost certainly an alias -- I don't know if he chose to call himself Book or was so christened by the other monks, but my read on the character is that he's trying as best he can to live by and to be "The Good Book" because he knows (probably better than anyone else aboard Serenity) what it's like to be evil.

In wartime, Book wasn't regular military. Perhaps some sort of special forces action figure dude, but more likely a spy and possibly even a state sponsored assassin. Certainly a stone cold killer, in any event. He apparently sacrificed his personal life for the good of the Alliance, as we know he never married, and he described Serenity as his home -- "It's good to be home." -- very early in the series, in the episode "Safe." Now Book hopes to balance the scales by devoting the whole of his being to doing good works in the years he has left to him.

His role in the Grand Scheme Of Things is (for the record, I'm making a conscious effort to avoid using the past tense...) to help the crew piece together the "secret history" of the Alliance after they come to understand the nature of what happened to River. Learning to view the Alliance from this new perspective will be a troubling revelation for Book, as he has no idea that he spent his professional career as a cat's paw of the malevolent AI and will inevitably see his own past in a new light. It won't be easy for him to come to terms with the knowledge that he spent most of his life in service not to simple human folly, but to the Devil himself.

I'm not sure if he'll ever turn against the crew, as some hereabouts have speculated, because it crosses my mind that Joss might want to try and make Book scary without making him evil -- and after all, Nathan Fillion guest starred as a happily psychotic evil preacher in the final season of "Buffy," so we've been there and done that, from a character standpoint. Jayne and Book might temporarily switch roles, though, perhaps with Jayne artificially made wise enough to see the error of his ways (it's a sci-fi show, remember?) and Book going dark as he confronts the truth about all the blood he has on his hands and considers how best to unleash the full extent of his art and fury upon his former masters.

FWIW, if Joss really wants to shock us with one of the crew turning evil for whatever reason, my guess is that he'd chose Zoe because her loyalty has always been above question and her integrity beyond reproach.

7. Okay -- Now Do Inara, Fanboy!

The theory that Inara is dying has much to recommend it, but I tend to favor a hypothesis which suggests that the Mysterious Hypodermic Needle we saw in the pilot might be a murder kit.

Remember "the goodnight kiss" -- Saffron's knockout lipstick from "Our Mrs. Reynolds"? Might'n't there be something analogous by which a Companion in imminent danger of sexual violence could render herself lethal to her attackers? Perhaps Inara has used it once before, in some complex confluence of circumstances deemed ethical by the Guild but which caused the death of some important figure on a core world. A scandal that had to be hushed up, in other words, and which might explain why a high-priced geisha like Inara would take a berth on a tramp freighter like Serenity. And if Inara's capable of risking her life and career to put some vile, aristocratic oaf in a position to kill himself by assaulting her, then perhaps it makes sense that a cultured, pro-Unification lady like her would fall for Cap'n Mal, the ethical rogue.

...Or it might be that both theories are correct: perhaps using the murder kit causes some sort of chronic, potentially lethal medical condition. Inara could have a pair of artificial kidneys, for instance, that need to be replaced every 12 months or 12,000 light years, though you'd think Simon would eventually catch on to something like that.

As for the unanswered question of why Inara announced that she's leaving Serenity, I think that's a character thing, rather than something related to her backstory. We know she's carrying a torch for Mal, and if she's serious about him (and we all want her to be, AFAIK) then she really was angry and hurt after he bedded the Madame of the cathouse. She feels like Mal cheated on her, but of course she's well aware that she has no claim on his affections... The fact that he was so quick to jump between the sheets with a willing woman might have been a blow to Inara's ego, but I think the real issue was the realization that she kept Mal at arm's length for too long. I think she frightened herself because she couldn't figure out how to respond to their unspoken attraction in an emotionally honest way, and now she's thinking that maybe Mal's right -- maybe she _is_ a whore, after all.

8. So How Will It End?

Same way "Buffy" did and "Angel" probably will: Our Heroes will save the world (or the galaxy, in this case) by beating an unbeatable foe in a battle royale worthy of story and song, but few outside their tight little fellowship will ever know.

Nobody knows about the malevolent AI controlling human civilization, after all, so they'll never notice its absence.

9. You've Spent Way Too Much Time Thinking About This

Not consciously. It all bubbled up in fits and starts while watching the DVDs and reading posts here at FFF.net

Hopefully, the voices will leave me alone now that I've done what they said and written it all down...

10. The End

I don't really have a tenth point, but you know how it is. Ten is the gold standard for list makers. Top ten lists, ten most wanted... Even God is down with ten bullet points, and I figure, who am I to go against tradition?

So... Are those brown coats standard issue around here, or do I have to buy my own?

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, April 26, 2004 8:32 PM

NEROLI

Welcome out of lurkdom and into postdom...and a mighty fine post it is 34Cygni!

You have some interesting theories, definatly thought provoking.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, April 26, 2004 9:13 PM

ZOID

34Cygni:

I like your moniker; got a piece of real estate picked out? As to your post, I'll start with the last thing first: It occurs to me you've just made your own brown coat, by virtue of your excellent first epistle. Now you must wear it, by continuing to come to your own conclusions. Individuality and Independent thought (pun intended) are what being a Browncoat is all about. Welcome!

I agree with much of what you've said and found most of your evidence compelling, your conclusions intriguing. However, I'm sticking to my oracles that Book was once General Richard Wilkins, the Alliance mastermind of the brilliant maneuver that obviated their victory at Serenity. You've got to be quick to catch it, but it's in Simon's encyclopedia history recital in the cut-scenes section of the DVD. Protestations to the contrary notwithstanding, I think Joss cut that scene from the series because he feared some might catch on. I think he included it in the DVD set because he thought the show was done (kaput), and he wanted someone to catch on. Here I is.

I'm also gonna stand pat on my belief that Alliance/BlueSun couldn't get a working AI, so they attempted to strip River's mind of distractions to create the next best thing, a 'human war-strategy computer'. Her ability to assess strength and position, then eliminate three targets with three bullets -- as though it were child's play -- I believe indicates strategic military acumen, that a meatware computer peripheral wouldn't need. I am compelled by your citing the 'Cortex' (as in cerebral cortex, the so-called 'thinking cap' of the human brain) to accept the possibility that an AI does exist, and that your argument for River's role has merit (it could also just be a catchy name for an information system). But, as I said, I'm going to stick to my original assessment and let JW tell us which (if either) of us is (most?) correct.

The rest I agree with except in the most purely superficial ways. Ahhh, yet another deep observer! There's more than a few hereabouts. See ya' on the boards...

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

(Of River) "Little Sis? I could see big things for her all along. Her and her brother both. I always knew they'd be worth something, y'know?"

- Jayne Cobb, Game Warden and co-proprietor, "Cretaceous Park", Hera; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, April 26, 2004 11:37 PM

CAPNRAHN

First off - A hearty welcome to FFFn to you!!!

Next: AH!!! very excellent theories!

But I have a suggestion for point 10, something you forgot or just omitted:Reavers.

They seem very intregal to Joss' series story arc. What is your theory there? I would love to see your perspective!

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, April 26, 2004 11:42 PM

SASJA

Hi and welcome - don't we all just love a good speculation! I love most of your theories (I'm not too sure about the AI, though - Whedon's shows are always about people), and I disagree with only one. Your theory on River. I think from the omitted passage in "Our Mrs. Reynolds" that River was destined to become a bluehand herself. Check this dialogue out:

RIVER
(to Book)
We want you to marry us.

SIMON
What? We - no! What?

RIVER
Two by two. Everyone has a mate, a
match, a dopple. I love you.

"Two by two" is of course the first part of the rhyme River sometimes mutters to herself: "Two by two, hands of blue". From way they cut from River repeating this rhyme to herself to the two bluehands by the end of "Serenity", they seem to tell us that the rhyme refers to the bluehands - that they operate in pairs. So when River uses this phrase and wants Simon as her "dopple", I take it that she's been given the idea that at some point she would be part of a "two by two, hands of blue"-some. Now, why bluehands need to be in pairs, I've no idea. As to why they would alter her mind so that she can't push anything back - could it be the first step of gaining control over her mind? First you break down her defenses, then you wire her up to get commands from somewhere, or just stick in a behavioral program making her act in certain ways. At least the bluehands don't seem very out of it, so I assume (if I'm right that River was supposed to be a bluehand) that one of the final steps in her "education" is completely missing.

I could of course be wrong - maybe she has just watched the bluehand pairs and the wedding rites and by herself come to the conclusion that everyone should have a "dopple".

Just my two.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:37 AM

KUGELBLITZ

Some penetrating observations made there 34cygni. They are fine and wonderful ideas. Thanks for the thought provoking post.

To me, your premise of an AI dominated multi-world corporation dominating a culture resonates very strongly with what I have observed in the series. Not only is the thought of a faceless corporation controlling so much, but to even remove its motives from the merely human avarices by putting an AI behind all of the masks creates a very dark and strange source.

With the AI as a given, it would follow that its motives, and its methods would be inhuman to us, however much its autonomous units (blue hands) looked normal. Therefore all manner of odd objectives and efforts would pour forth from this cornucopia of creepiness. Certainly the survival of River and Tam depend on their staying away from any sophisticated machinery, at least anything that posseses alink to the coretex (0r AI).

What a fine cyberpunk styling of high weirdness.

The AI may as well be some remote and terrible god on a mountaintop who pokes at the masses below for its own form of entertainment or enlightenment, with the occasional plague thrown in to keep everyone guessing. We as viewers may not know why it acts as it does (it is NOT going to have human motivations), only that in the limited perspective that we DO have, we may never understand the terrible machinations it uses to gather its resources, and those machinations are very, very different to us, and again, come from an alien source.

So are the blue hands some kind of data phages? Was River supposed to become some fancy kind of search engine? What would she be like if she sat in front of fifty montiors, each one tuned to a different feed?

River has many autistic aspects, and her modificstions point to a destination that is an alien one for any vibrant young human. We can speculate about what or who she is or was to become, but are we merely trying to put into human terms the goals of the ineffable AI?

"We are exporting democracy because we have all of this unused democracy lying around at home. Why not make some money doing it?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 3:32 AM

DELIA

Welcome, 34Cygni!

Hell of a first post; I enjoyed it. I'll be very, very curious to see how "right" you got it.

The only question now is, how the hell you're gonna top it.

Delia

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 3:53 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

First and foremost, welcome to the board 34cygni. It is always a pleasure to greet a new Browncoat to the forum, and doubly so when that individual has chosen to come out of lurk mode and join our community.

You raise some interesting questions, and some of your theories are very interesting.

I am not really sold on the whole evil A.I. theory. That seems a little sci fi for Firefly and the feel that Joss has imparted to this 'verse we have all come to know and love. Interesting theory nonetheless.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 4:17 AM

CYBERSNARK

Welcome spacer. Make yourself at home.

Awesome theories, but I agree with the others who think the AI angle is too far out there for Joss' human-centred story.

Personally, I think Blue Sun could be a secret organization (possibly even reaching back to Earth-that-was), that's using the Alliance itself as a patsy.

As far as anyone else is concerned, Blue Sun is just a random megacorp. What does Blue Sun actually do anyway? Medical goods? Computers? Foodstuffs? Shipping services? TV network?

Quote:
Originally posted by sasja:
the rhyme refers to the bluehands - that they operate in pairs. [. . .] Now, why bluehands need to be in pairs, I've no idea.

Easy: so that if one of them goes rogue, the other'll be able to kill them, give a report to Blue Sun, and then kill themselves to eliminate any security risks.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 5:02 AM

EMBERS

First of all: it is great to meet you 34CYGNI, I loved your post...altho, like others, I really disagree about the AI: I think Joss' point is that this is something humans do to themselves. In order to 'protect' ourselves, in order to have comfort and convenience, we take away our own freedoms and lock ourselves into self-made prisons. ID cards, documentation, survelance, and complete lack of freedom are all man-made...and get worse as the goverment and corporations get bigger and more inter-dependent.
JMPO

But Zoid! I must have missed your earlier posted theories, and I am thrilled by this!

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:

I'm sticking to my oracles that Book was once General Richard Wilkins, the Alliance mastermind of the brilliant maneuver that obviated their victory at Serenity. You've got to be quick to catch it, but it's in Simon's encyclopedia history recital in the cut-scenes section of the DVD. Protestations to the contrary notwithstanding, I think Joss cut that scene from the series because he feared some might catch on. I think he included it in the DVD set because he thought the show was done (kaput), and he wanted someone to catch on. Here I is.

Now I must go back to rewatch my DVDs AGAIN!
Because I agree that 'Book' is a made-up name, based on the Good Book...
And obviously Book must have been very important since you can't make up your own secret identity if you don't have friends in high places...
and of course those friends are still making sure that he is treated well when ever he reveals his identity card!

This (all of the above theories and ideas) is why we NEED the movie, and the TV show to return, and more and more information! We have been teased by these first episodes but NOTHING is resolved, none of our questions have been answered.....

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 5:09 AM

SHINY

Nice first post!

>>They come out of the byte. They come when you call."<<

Actually, the quote is:

"they come out of the black. They come when you call."

Personally, I think the malevolent AI taking over humankind is a little too well-worn a sci-fi path for Joss (especially recently *cough*Matrix*cough), although who knows? After 6 or 7 seasons, even he can run out of ideas, as he mentioned at the convention panel. :)

Please help Haken keep this site running by occasionally clicking on some of the sponsored ad links on the side of the page!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 10:05 AM

SKYDANCE

Your concept of an AI governing a race in conflict with the rest of humanity reminds me of the Deathstalker series (author forgotten). Of course, it has a more contemporary association with the Matrix movies ....

In a "high fantasy" story, I agree, Joss would need a "dragon" to slay. Remember, though, that Firefly is primarily a drama. There's plenty of evil in Men's hearts. Just look at the Reavers: those were human beings, once.

Despite the temptation to create machine intelligences or aliens, I believe it's all the more scary (and personally, I suspect it's Joss's vision) to show the dark side of humanity and what it can be. Minus Man, Red Dragon, Texas Chainsaw Massacre ... you don't have to go any further than reality to find the demons behind River's treatment. (Consider Niska, and the reference to that guy who tortured people to "meet the real person.")

Yours is a fine vision, but it's not needed, and there are no other hints of AI anywhere in the series. (The computers don't even talk; you flip switches, or touch spots on a piece of paper.)

"River's apparent psychic powers are, I think, an illusion ..."

Depends on how you view certain scenes. Watch the commentary by Joss for Objects in Space, though. He specifically says River is woken by the voice, in her mind, of Early. That's psychic, period.

Joss has also said psychic reading was as far as he was willing to take the "magical" powers in this series (again, this comes from one of the commentaries). That limit, of course, implies that the "psychic" element is there.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:38 PM

34CYGNI

Thanks for the kind reception, one and all.

With respect to the AI theory, I stress that I'm not necessarily envisioning a silicon-chips-and-binary-code kind of AI, here, but more likely some variation on the old brain-in-a-jar meme. Joss showed us he can wring horror out of high technology when Buffy went to college, after all, and I'd be disappointed if he didn't go into his Big Damn Sci-Fi Show with something even more twisted up his sleeve.

I do respect the argument that involving an AI is potentially going against the humanocentric, "latex free" spirit of the show. However, I reiterate that a sci-fi show needs a sci-fi foe -- and let's not forget which network "Firefly" was on, y'know? There had to be an element in the pitch that satisfied their lowest-common-denominator instincts (I mean, aside from, "I've got two words for you: space hooker!").

Besides, the very best evil AI stories I've ever come across were all about humanity -- I refer you to the classic "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream" by Harlan Ellison and "Press Enter" by John Varley (you could perhaps add "Frankenstein" to that list, but I don't want to get too high-falutin'...). These short stories are highly creepy, deeply human tales in which the godlike, malevolent AI is both omnipresent and yet mostly absent from the narratives.

There is also some merit in the complaint that building up to a climax in which Our Heroes destroy the evil AI and set humanity free is simply too grandiose for a show about "the people history stepped on." What gets me past that one is the idea that Mal must have honorable satisfaction. He was a True Believer in the independence movement, a rare combination of the best elements of a man of ideals and a man of action, and by God, sir, a man like that cannot be left without a dragon to slay. Letting him destroy the evil force behind the Unification war will allow him to fulfill the ideals that we saw get crushed at Serenity Valley in the pilot, and yet that heroic act will be followed up by the existential horror of the realization that it won't have any palpable effect on the day-to-day lives of the citizenry of the Alliance. At the end of it all, everybody will still get up and go to work the next morning, the mechanisms of government oppression will still be in place (though with new hands at the controls), and Mal will probably still be worrying about where he'll find his next paycheck to keep fuel in Serenity's tanks.

Mal may free the human race from bondage, but all that means is that we'll be free to wallow in misery of our own creation, rather than the misery the AI sought to inflict upon us.

In other news, does anybody else hear River say, "They come out of the black," instead of, "They come out of the byte," while Simon's scanning her brain in the episode "Ariel"? I popped in the ol' DVD to doublecheck, and under no circumstances can I make my brain hear her say the word "black" rather than "byte". I even turned the sound off and stared intently at her lips (...now I feel faintly unclean, and not in a good way -- sorry, Summer, wherever you are) to see if there was an L in there, but Simon's thumb is kind of in the way. I'm sticking by my original interpretation of that line.

I discarded the theory that River was being indoctrinated to become a Bluehand because she's just too durn cute and way too ruttin' smart. Bluehands should be relatively inconspicuous on the street, another person in a nice suit who isn't worth a second glance but for their curious taste in gloves, and I suspect that they're just muscle, not the brains of the operation. (...So, do you suppose a female Bluehand would wear a dress, or would she go for a sort of grim, spare Annie Hall look?

)

As for River being psychic, it potentially strengthens the case that she was being turned into a sensory organ for the evil ubermind. After all, it presumably already has full access to the vast reams of data harvested every second from all the security cameras, phone calls, security checkpoints, medical scanners, and what-all-else that's hooked up to the Cortex. The only privacy left is inside people's skulls...

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 4:09 PM

DELIA

Quote:
Originally posted by 34cygni:

In other news, does anybody else hear River say, "They come out of the black," instead of, "They come out of the byte," while Simon's scanning her brain in the episode "Ariel"?

I heard "black" and that's what I saw when I looked up the shooting scripts online. The subtitles, for the record, offer the curious "they come out of the bike," so I suppose its possible that Blue Sun grew out of the Tour De France. Or Harley Davidson.

Quote:

So, do you suppose a female Bluehand would wear a dress, or would she go for a sort of grim, spare Annie Hall look?

Well, did you see Diane Keaton at the Oscars?

Lots of thought-provoking stuff on this thread. I'm enjoying it.

Delia

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 4:46 PM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by 34cygni:

...Mal must have honorable satisfaction. He was a True Believer in the independence movement, a rare combination of the best elements of a man of ideals and a man of action, and by God, sir, a man like that cannot be left without a dragon to slay. Letting him destroy the evil force behind the Unification war will allow him to fulfill the ideals that we saw get crushed at Serenity Valley in the pilot,

I find myself wondering if you have listened to the commentaries, particularly the one Joss did for 'Objects in Space'?
Joss is an existentalist...he is not into happy endings, and I don't think he is likely to allow Mal 'fix' the world...

I think the most Mal & his crew can hope for is to continue to run under the radar and be happy within themselves and with each other...

Similarly w/Buffy and Angel...evil exists, and inspite of all our best efforts, it will remain.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, April 28, 2004 4:44 AM

CYBERSNARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Delia:
The subtitles, for the record, offer the curious "they come out of the bike," so I suppose its possible that Blue Sun grew out of the Tour De France. Or Harley Davidson.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!*wheeze*

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, April 29, 2004 2:04 AM

DELIA

Cybersnark,

You don't see it? The whole Alliance could be run by the preserved brain of Lance Armstrong, power by blue handed men riding stationary bicycles nonstop like little hamster in wheels.

Or not.

Actually, its probably just best to ignore anything I say for a while. It's the end of the semester, I'm running on three hours of sleep a night and a ridiculous amount of coffee.

Hey, maybe Blue Sun grew out of Starbucks. . .

Delia

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:34 AM

SAMURAIX47

Welcome aboard!

I have to disagree with 2, maybe 3 points...

The use of the term galaxy by makers of scifi movies and television shows has been appalling. They use it like it means "the house next door." Just to travel among the billions of stars in our own galaxy would take eons. If they found a solar system with enough room for the whole of human population it would probably have to be within 100 light years of Earth-that-was in order to transport the billions of people in a short amount of time. And so far in many of the solar systems with planets that have been deduced or detected are all of the size of gas giants and closer to their primary than our Jupiter is to the sun... so extrapolating from that... there are probably more moons around the gas giants then there would be earth-like planets around the star, gas giants with moons the size of planets. So the Firefly verse is all within one solar system. The core worlds may be earth-like and earth-size... And all the rest are on moons. Also the 2 blue-hands guys on board the alliance cruiser say they had travelled 86 Million miles... Earth-that-was is only 93 million miles from the Sun, 1 AU. That means they are traveling within a solar system.

Next point... why would an AI have anything to do with humans? Humans are wasteful, inefficient, lazy, good for not much... Why would an AI try to control us? If anything it would try to get rid of us in favor of AI brethren (see Terminator). Or it would be so controlling as to stifle all human development (see Colossus: The Forbin Project). Or it would go mad, succumbing to chaos (see 2001: A Space Odyssey). I just can't see an AI acting human (mimicking emotion is not having a sense of humanity) by being the mastermind behind the alliance. Computers and machines are just tools of humanity and will never be able to, nor allowed to be in charge. Human foibles are what's behind the Alliance government... people with agendas... politicians, and their lapdogs.

I don't think a unified field theory, or the controlling of the force of gravity, will necessarily lead to, nor allow for, Faster-Than-Light travel.

Jaymes

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:42 AM

KUGELBLITZ

I disagree on the AI's motivations. Since we have no data at all on how an AI would act, anything goes.

An AI could be capable of a variety of behaviors, with their origins either completely understandable or alien in the extreme. The hypothetical AI could still have some parameters at the base of its flabby black core that direct it to act towards a specific set of goals like-maximise productivity for Blue Sun Corp, or protect our assets or tinker with DNA until something sool happens and so forth.

Also there can be mutiple systems within a light year or less of one another, and we could see travel in system of one place and short hops or full burns connecting one system to another nearby one. Don't limit your setting to our local neighborhgood, there are denser places in the 'verse.

"We are exporting democracy because we have all of this unused democracy lying around at home. Why not make some money doing it?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE