Monty still fighting? by Gunhand

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Monty still fighting?

POSTED BY: GUNHAND
UPDATED: Thursday, April 29, 2004 03:47
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VIEWED: 4057
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Monday, April 26, 2004 5:39 PM

Okay as part of my pennance for the Saffron deal lately, long story, I went and re-watched Our Mrs. Reynolds and Trash.

While watching the begining of Trash something smacked me over the head and made me rewind it and watch it twice, something I never saw before even though it should have been really obvious.

Monty is of course wearing his brown leathery duster coat, we know he fought with Mal in the war so that's no big surprise. But what struck me was, all of Monty's crew are in browncoats.

They went from brown like Mal to the khaki that we saw the Independents wearing during the Serenity Valley and Du Khang flashbacks. Okay no biggie, clothes aren't cheap in the 'Verse so they just keep wearing their issue out of respect for the cause and because it's likely the best clothing they own right?

Wrong. At least two of Monty's crew are wearing Independent helmets still, now a coat I can fathom still wearing after the fact, a steel pot...not so much. There's much more comfortable headgear to plant on your mellon if you just wanna keep the rain off and/or look stylish, believe me here even kevlar gives you a nice knot in the neck after a few hours let alone those old WWII-Vietnam issue M1 steel helmets.

So while I was going,"Holy

to myself I rewound it again and looked even more closely. The woman who seems to be Monty's first mate is wearing one of the brown leather tanktops like Zoe war in the war, and she's got the same black chainmail on underneath.

Some of the fellows moving around with the crates also were wearing red scarves, much like Mal and Zoe wore in the flashback scenes. These remind me of the bright red shirts that the Missouri Bushwhackers wore during the Civil War, I'm thinking it's another Independent article of offical or unoffical enough that it may as well be official dress.

So that all makes me wonder...Is Monty still fighting the war? He has a ship, he's plenty mobile and all his crew are strapped and (now here I admit I may be reading too much into extras just going about their business) they all just move like someone who's had some weapon's training. This last one could be a stretch but at least the first mate and the really large guy with the shaved head move like cops/soldiers, the actors that is. So could be a coincidence or could be Joss cast people like that especially for that reason. With most TV show creators I'd just smack myself and say that was way overcomplicated for a short scene, but with Joss, nothing would surprise me.

So it makes me wonder about whether or not Monty is still doing some sort of fighting against the Alliance. There were plenty enough of Confederate guerrilla fighters that wound up continuing the fight out in the west for a spell after the war that it isn't completely unprecidented. Many of these bands were labelled outlaws by the law and most of them wound up in fact becoming such. The James gang had at it's core ex-Quantrill's Raiders who then went on to do crime, and many of them in letters and biographies even said that they still considered the war on, just at a lower level. Some folks just won't quit.

Could be Monty's one of those guys. Which makes me wonder a few additional things.

Mainly, what's in those crates Mal delivered to him, there was a whole mess of crates there. If they were supplies useful for a raider group that'd keep them in business for quite a while.

The other thing is, that big old black medallion he wears. When I'd first seen the show and everytime until tonight I thought it was just a tackyass piece of jewelry, sorta like the 'Verse equivilent to a Mercedes symbol; but now I'm wondering if it isn't some sort of rank medalion. We saw that the Independents used colored triangle patches for the enlisted, NCO and junior officer's ranks but if we can draw a little from the American Civil War the Confederate lower ranks were pretty much standard as the US Army ones but the higher ups had some gorram tacky braid and other widgets. Could Monty have been a General or somesuch?

And lastly, makes me wonder if I don't just analyse things on this show way too darn much...

"Pain is scary..."

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Monday, April 26, 2004 5:47 PM

NEROLI

Gunhand, very shiney observations and MOST useful for the fanfic I am working on!!

You raise some very interesting points here. I always did get the impression from Monty's crew that they were all pretty much former browncoats. But I hadn't really thought to consider that they were still fighting the war in their own eyes.

Mind if I use "borrow" this observation?

Please, pretty please, with Saffron on top?

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Monday, April 26, 2004 5:52 PM

GUNHAND

Sure, borrow away.

Never really hit me until I was watching it a little while ago, one of the benefits of watching the DVDs on the computer I suppose, it makes the background things more noticable since they're so close.

Now I'll be waiting at the door for Saffron to show up...Although I better get Vera out just in case she decides to have some Crazy Time.

"Pain is scary..."

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Monday, April 26, 2004 5:56 PM

NEROLI

~stuffs Saffron back in her crate and ships her off to Gunhand~

Thank you much, kind Sir!! Your Saffron is in the mail...hehehee

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Monday, April 26, 2004 6:23 PM

LEMAT

That is a good eye, Gunhand. I have to watch that again.

I think the crates were being offloaded for later pickup by Serenity. Remember that Mal was standing around with a bunch of crates and YoSafBridge as Monty took off. Those crates had to come off of Monty's boat.

Jon

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Monday, April 26, 2004 6:37 PM

GUNHAND

Thanks. I'm just surprised I never saw it before, then again yesterday was the first time I watched any episode of Firefly on the computer since the DVD player was all sorts of screwy on it for a bit.

I know they were taking some stuff from Monty, which is why they were loading crates onto Serenity (and how YoSaffBridge got on the boat) but seems to me that they also loaded some crates onto Monty's ship via their elevating platform loading hatch.

I'm thinking that Serenity dropped off some crates (this bit being unseen), then Monty showed up and gave his outbound shipment to Mal, then Serenity came back. Always got the notion that that episode was a swap not a straight up delivery for some reason. Serenity had to land once to drop off Mal so could be they dropped off a shipment for Monty at the same time bringing abord stuff he was delivering.

Also the comment about,"Didn't know you were picking up this leg of the run." seems to me that this isn't your normal crime here. Something about the way Monty says that and Mal's concern about being spotted by the Alliance makes me think this isn't a normal job and definately not something weak tea.

Just my opinion though. I just like the idea that somewhere out there there are Browncoats who just won't ever give up the fight. I mean it has to work out that way for there to be a Second War of Independence, this time with the Browncoats winning.

I have a feelin' they'll rise again.

"Pain is scary..."

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Monday, April 26, 2004 7:12 PM

PEACE

Quote:
Originally posted by Gunhand:
Also the comment about,"Didn't know you were picking up this leg of the run." seems to me that this isn't your normal crime here. Something about the way Monty says that and Mal's concern about being spotted by the Alliance makes me think this isn't a normal job and definately not something weak tea.

Holy CRAP! I never noticed that, either...could it be that Mal's still tied into a continuing Resistance? If the series had gone on, would we have had a tidy little revelation down the pike about the Underground and Mal? Man, that would be so Joss Whedon. Maybe it'll come out in the movie.

BTW, a continuing resistance movement after a civil war makes total sense-- although for my money the main Southern resistance to the North after our Civil War was not out west, but in the south, in the form of the KKK and the Redeemers. A fight, sad to say, that the white supremacists won for many years....

Oh, bugger! Now I have to wait for someone to wake up!

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Monday, April 26, 2004 7:52 PM

GUNHAND

It wouldn't surprise me one iota if Mal was involved in some sort of resistance movement, but there are some reasons for why I don't see him sewing on his Sergeant's patch and joining up with the irregulars who still may be out there fighting.

One of them could be the fact that he's well known, I mean pretty darn well known. Something in his records makes that Alliance cruiser commander in Bushwhacked think he's a pretty big catch. I mean lots of folks fought in the war, probably couldn't swing a stick without hitting half a dozen veterans from both sides in any given place on the Frontier, but he continues to call Mal by his rank. He even puts a little extra emphesis on it. In the deleted scene from Serenity Zoe says that Mal was eventually commanding 2000 men, now even if there was an insane ammount of attrition in the officer ranks there'd have to be at least a butter bar left alive in a short brigade. Which leads me to think that Mal maybe got authority over and above his rank. I can totally see Mal refusing a battlefield commision by giving that ancient Sergeant's reply,"No thanks, I work for a livin'."

Mal could be the 'Verse equivilent to Sgt. York for all we know, and since he ain't one for speakin' about what's past only Zoe would really know how important he was in that battle. That sort of man inspires loyalty in a great many people, as the Alliance commander put it, both in relation to his crew and whatever's in that background report on Mal that he keeps reading intently during his questioning.

That could be one reason, another could be that he doesn't want to jeopardize his new family and Serenity by getting too involved in what to him is a lost war. He says it's lost, he's bitter about it, he lost his faith when his command told him to lay down arms. Deep down he still believes in it, and he hopes they'll rise again, but right now he's being pragmatic. He'll do what he can to help so long as the doing doesn't compromise his crew.

Going along with that train of thought here's something I could see happening down the road. At the end of Objects in Space he accepts River, he would have protected her anyhow because he's a fine and upstanding man but now she's more than just someone who needs protecting, she's family. Once Mal finds out what Blue Sun and/or the Alliance did to her head...Well a line from Tombstone comes to mind.

"Revenge? This ain't about revenge, he's lookin' for a Reckoning."

That's what Mal's reaction would be, in my opinion. Not only did they destroy his cause, make him lose his faith but now it's his family they were messing with and for that he'll kill anyone responsible for that off every world spinnin'.

I think there'll be a Second War of Independence, and I'm fair certain that River is going to be the cause of it and Mal will have something to do with the instigating of it. Whether he intends to or not that man's gonna be involved in important events.

I don't see that happening for a while though, one of the great things about Firefly is that we see the common folk, well as common as Big Damn Heroes can be, and that works very very well. But if Joss wanted to do something Epic, I can see River being the fuse and Mal being the guy running around with the lit Zippo.

As far as the history of the Civil War and Reconstruction goes, yeah General Forrest and his progeny did more to hurt the South than any Yankee army did in my estimation, leading to a lot of years of sad and bad things.

But there isn't a direct correlation to the slavery issue in the Independence War of the 'Verse and the American Civil War because I'm pretty sure that the Alliance are the slave holders here, and they won. Joss did one hell of a job taking the real history and then extrapolating that into the future but with enough twists to it that it keeps it fresh. There are plenty of parallels but enough differences that you can believe that there was a similiar set of circumstances that lead to their war, and at the same time it's different enough that what you think maps A to B to C goes on a very bendy route instead of a straight line.

Damn good stuff, which is why I love to speculate on it. That's the mark of true genius in writing and Joss hit it.

I'll shut up now because I do go on...

But all this talk about Monty and the continuing fight made me realise something. We have Alliance flags, but no Independent ones. So I'm bashing something together for my own amusement.

"Pain is scary..."

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 3:36 AM

DAVEY

This got me to thinking that somebody, somewhere must still be fighting the alliance, after all there seem to be too many cruisers around for it to be otherwise.In fact one of those we saw was ready to launch gunships at a moments notice when they detected serenity, i'm no expert but that doesnt sound like normal peacetime practice. They aren't there to defend against reavers,they (at least one captain did) think the reavers are frontier legends. I don't believe that they are on anti piracy patrols either as they are just too big and expensive to waste on a job which could be done by a destroyer or a frigate at a fraction of the cost.
We do know that there is at least an underground, the ones that helped simon get river out, and this hypothetical resistance, whether monty is involved or not, would open up a lot of potential storylines.

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 4:30 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I never really paid much attention to the uniforms of Monty's crew Gunhand, but you have my curiousity piqued now. I am going to have to check out Trash tonight when I get home and pay close attention to the dress and equipment of Monty's crew.

As to your other theories of a potential for a 2nd war for independence, I think it is possible, but not likely, not unless some major events sway public opinion and win some major support for the Independents.

Not too sure that Mal is knowingly running any sort of supplies to the Independents or anyone else staging a conflict w/ the Alliance. Mal tries very hard to stay off the Alliance radar, and running supplies of any kind to them as are doing the fighting would draw a lot of attention to him and his crew. Mal lost faith in the Independent command structure after the abandonded him, Zoe, and his men in Serenity Valley, and left them there for days while they negotiated terms w/ the Alliance. I think Mal would not trust any member of the Indy command ever again, at least not with the lives or welfare of his crew.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 5:25 AM

SHINY

Great observations, Gunhand! I really do feel Joss & co. would have done a 'old army buddies of Mal and Zoe's still fighting the war' story (a la 'Dead or Alive') and I guess I could see Monty and his crew involved, but my impression from what I've seen of them is they might be more peripheral (suppliers/smuggling arms/etc.) than direct guerilla fighters.

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 6:08 AM

KUGELBLITZ

Hmm postulating some sort of arms build up or a low key resistance is interesting. In the Trainjob there is a platoon of soldiers who are going somewhere, and their location is even known to the nearby Alliance cruiser. Could there be some ongoing troubles that are being dealt with?

Certainly Mal's Browncoat doesn't draw any hostile action from the troopers ( a few glances maybe) and the townies later do seem rather inclined to let him move on after the meds get redelivered. Are they sympathetic to an ex browncoat? Is it possible to BE an ex-browncoat or are you just a browncoat forever?

"We are exporting democracy because we have all of this unused democracy lying around at home. Why not make some money doing it?"

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 6:23 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

If the script for Dead or Alive is any indication, there is still some Independents that are carrying on the fight.

I think it very possible, and if history is any indication, and highly probable that there is still some sort of organized effort to fight the Alliance. I would think that the Independents (if that is in fact who they still are) would have to be a relatively small group. If they are making a difference or are causing the Alliance any trouble, it does not seem to be making the news.

I would think once a Browncoat, always a Browncoat.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 7:31 AM

KNIBBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by davey:
They aren't there to defend against reavers,they (at least one captain did) think the reavers are frontier legends.

The Captain didn't say that reavers were legends - that was Simon. What the Captain said was (paraphrasing) that every other criminal out in the black blames Reavers for the crime.

There is a resistance and they don't just operated in the border planets. - Simon was assisted by an underground movement to rescue River. They took her from a central planet and shipped her to WhiteFall for pick up.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 7:46 AM

KUGELBLITZ

BC 1 wrote "If they are making a difference or are causing the Alliance any trouble, it does not seem to be making the news. "

Yep, and who would be controlling the media?

"We are exporting democracy because we have all of this unused democracy lying around at home. Why not make some money doing it?"

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 8:21 AM

GUNHAND

Thanks for the replies guys.

I agree that Mal wouldn't go out to some deep frontier planet and start shooting things up, pretty much for the reasons already given. But it wouldn't surprise me if he'd make an exception for an old pal like Monty. We got to see him for all of 3 minutes, and he'd be the sort of guy I'd run guns for just on general principle.

You're right about the gunship launching scene. That was a whole mess of fighters to be putting into the air on account of one little Firefly without bow registration codes. Using something as big as those Cruisers wouldn't be cost effective for routine patrol, but it seems that all the ones we've seen have been on routine patrols. Which makes me wonder why. It'd be the 'Verse equivilent of seeing Nimitz class carriers pulling into random ports on Lake Ontario just for customs inspections. Sorta strikes me as overkill even for a government like the Alliance.

I also agree that they aren't making much news. At least not on the Core. Which makes me think they're little bands scattered here and there that mostly get by by pulling little jobs, even complex ones like the Med heist on Ariel. Sure the Alliance Feds showed up for it, and even the Bluehands but that's because they were tipped by Jayne, otherwise though there wasn't all that much persuit even though the authorities knew the vault was robbed and that there were dangerous folks around. That makes me think that while not common it isn't unheard of and that the authorities had to switch chains of command, from the Marshalls to the military maybe? That takes some time and that would give Serenity the window to escape.

Plus who do the Alliance send after Serenity after Ariel? Jubal Early, a bounty hunter. Could be that if the Alliance can keep an attack on Ariel hushed up partly by sending bounties hunters instead of Feds after the crew, that maybe out on the Frontier that's protocol as well. Money can keep a bounty hunter quiet about what his last job was, but a military unit is harder to "hush up" as it were.

Last couple bits are pure conjecture, but I agreed with the other points. Going to have to read the script for Dead or Alive (now the song's in my head) and see what that has to say.

"Pain is scary..."

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 8:27 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Kugelblitz wrote:

Quote:
Yep, and who would be controlling the media?

Exactly my point Kuge; the Alliance controls the media. If the remnants of the Independents were still causing the Alliance trouble, they would never let the public know. Like we have seen w/ so many governments and regimes, they will go to any lengths to hide problems or complications that make it look as if they have less than absolute control.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 8:29 AM

HOTPOINT

Quote:
Originally posted by Gunhand:
Thanks for the replies guys.
Using something as big as those Cruisers wouldn't be cost effective for routine patrol, but it seems that all the ones we've seen have been on routine patrols. Which makes me wonder why. It'd be the 'Verse equivilent of seeing Nimitz class carriers pulling into random ports on Lake Ontario just for customs inspections. Sorta strikes me as overkill even for a government like the Alliance.

I think that given that it's less than a decade since the war the Alliance is still making a show of force on the outermost worlds which is why they're using Cruisers not smaller ships

It would also explain why they use vessels that are poorly designed as warships (about as stealthy as a flying metropolis) they are trying to be visible

Intimidate the folks on the rim. Let them know who the boss is

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 9:20 AM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by Kugelblitz:
Yep, and who would be controlling the media?

Fox. Gorram Fox News...

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 9:20 AM

SPLIBERTARIAN

Quote:
Gunhand wrote:

We have Alliance flags, but no Independent ones. So I'm bashing something together for my own amusement.

Sounds like fun... I'd definately incorporate the Bonnie Blue in there, myself.

------------------------
Grenades cost extra.

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 9:45 AM

GUNHAND

Quote:
Originally posted by splibertarian:
Quote:
Gunhand wrote:

We have Alliance flags, but no Independent ones. So I'm bashing something together for my own amusement.

Sounds like fun... I'd definately incorporate the Bonnie Blue in there, myself.

------------------------
Grenades cost extra.

It is fun, came up with 4 designs, way I figure it the Independents were in pretty much the same boat as the Confederates when it came up to designing a whole new flag and even ones that were sorta similiar could be very different.

I tried posting them to the Blue Sun Room but for some reason it wouldn't work, they were in the right format and I saw a preview but when it came time to save to the page it wouldn't do it.

The first one is a combination of CSA Battle Flag, Union Jack and Taiwanese with stars in the shape of the ones from the Australian flag. Why? Well figured the Brits and Aussies needed in on the fun as well, and for the Chinese cultured people Taiwan seemed better than the PRC use. Rebels ya know. As an added touch it has "Let Us Alone" stitched into it, an old reference to one of the first South Carolina seccessionist flags.

Second one started out as something bases on an old Aussie flag then warped into something truely bizarre. Red, while and blue stripes, St. George's Cross, Taiwanese coat of arms and more Aussie stars.

Third one is an even more bizarre mix of the Bonnie Blue Flag, Chinese Imperial Dragon flag and Culpepper Minutemen flag. It's not quite the way I want it yet.

Last one is a combination of the Royal Navy Ensign and Stainless Flag and still being spindled, folded and mutilated.

Now this is where I get weird...well weirder. I made "clean" versions like any picture of any flag you'd find in an encyclopedia and then an "actual" flag that looks like someone's displaying it in a museum, they're muddy, some bloody and some have shot holes in them. I love roleplaying games, been doing them for 20 years and am working on a little Firefly one, so I made those added versions to put into it. If I ever get done writing it that is.

So the "actual" flags have little stories behind them, the one Alliance one I made (and desecrated) has a little blurb like,"Recaptured Allied flag, originally ripped from Laurastead Settlement on Shadow during the opening shots of the War of Unification." Silly little stuff like that. Having been a history major I go a bit weird when it comes to citations, even for made up stuff.

"Pain is scary..."

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 1:28 PM

KUGELBLITZ

Send them to me! I want to see them.

"We are exporting democracy because we have all of this unused democracy lying around at home. Why not make some money doing it?"

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Wednesday, April 28, 2004 4:55 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by Gunhand:
Quote:
Originally posted by splibertarian:
Quote:
Gunhand wrote:

We have Alliance flags, but no Independent ones. So I'm bashing something together for my own amusement.

Sounds like fun... I'd definately incorporate the Bonnie Blue in there, myself.

------------------------
Grenades cost extra.

It is fun, came up with 4 designs, way I figure it the Independents were in pretty much the same boat as the Confederates when it came up to designing a whole new flag and even ones that were sorta similiar could be very different.

I tried posting them to the Blue Sun Room but for some reason it wouldn't work, they were in the right format and I saw a preview but when it came time to save to the page it wouldn't do it.

The first one is a combination of CSA Battle Flag, Union Jack and Taiwanese with stars in the shape of the ones from the Australian flag. Why? Well figured the Brits and Aussies needed in on the fun as well, and for the Chinese cultured people Taiwan seemed better than the PRC use. Rebels ya know. As an added touch it has "Let Us Alone" stitched into it, an old reference to one of the first South Carolina seccessionist flags.

Second one started out as something bases on an old Aussie flag then warped into something truely bizarre. Red, while and blue stripes, St. George's Cross, Taiwanese coat of arms and more Aussie stars.

Third one is an even more bizarre mix of the Bonnie Blue Flag, Chinese Imperial Dragon flag and Culpepper Minutemen flag. It's not quite the way I want it yet.

Last one is a combination of the Royal Navy Ensign and Stainless Flag and still being spindled, folded and mutilated.

Now this is where I get weird...well weirder. I made "clean" versions like any picture of any flag you'd find in an encyclopedia and then an "actual" flag that looks like someone's displaying it in a museum, they're muddy, some bloody and some have shot holes in them. I love roleplaying games, been doing them for 20 years and am working on a little Firefly one, so I made those added versions to put into it. If I ever get done writing it that is.

So the "actual" flags have little stories behind them, the one Alliance one I made (and desecrated) has a little blurb like,"Recaptured Allied flag, originally ripped from Laurastead Settlement on Shadow during the opening shots of the War of Unification." Silly little stuff like that. Having been a history major I go a bit weird when it comes to citations, even for made up stuff.

"Pain is scary..."

Hope you can figure out how to post them Gunhand. I am interested in seeing what you have put together.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Wednesday, April 28, 2004 7:19 AM

SKYDANCE

"But if Joss wanted to do something Epic, I can see River being the fuse and Mal being the guy running around with the lit Zippo."

Oh, that is so freakin' SHINY!

I can just see the scene, too. Some planet, with thousands upon thousands of people carrying weapons. Different groups, different agendas, different ideas about how to fight, with anger as their only common theme.

Some sort of public address system: something that lets Mal's voice carry to all of them. He's got their attention, because they know him, and he's a natural leader ... but these groups, like I said, they all have their own agendas. Mal has just stopped them from fighting each other, but that's as far as a human being (even one with Mal's charisma) can take it.

And suddenly, out of nowhere, River is standing in front of him. She's using that tiny voice of hers ... ever notice how River's voice, just the tiniest of little things she says, will stop everyone in the scene from talking, instantly? That's the voice. Tiny, like it comes from her hands and is lifted up into her throat, but doesn't quite know how it got there.

And the PA system carries that tiny voice to everyone. And they see -- they really see. They know. They evolve, and they grow. She changes them.

God, it gives me goosebumps just to imagine it. You're right: make Mal on the podium the 3rd-season cliff-hanger, and River's part the opening to the 4th season. Then you've got season's 4, 5, and 6 for the War. It could be so amazing.

I don't think Mal's actively fighting anything right now, though. A smart man knows that fighting a war is not about killing the guy on the other side of the field; it's about getting the government on the other side to sign a piece of paper. When your government has given up the fight, then there's no point to killing people. That's just murder.

However, I can imagine him filling in for an old buddy on a regular supply run, when his buddy's ship is in dock for repairs.

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Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:25 PM

GUNHAND

Well still no luck being able to get them to save to the Blue Sun Room, which is disappointing. So I guess I'll just have to go and make a webpage to put them on, which is even more distressing when you take into account my complete lack of webpage making skills.

Trying to figure out something now and I'll let ya know. I've redone a couple, added a couple more designs, and am honestly pretty suprised at how well one of them came out.

So...work, work, work.

"Pain is scary..."

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Thursday, April 29, 2004 3:47 AM

GUNHAND

Just bumping this for y'all who wanted to see some of what I was working on.

Flag images are now located on my brand new eerie-ass webpage. It isn't so impressive right now since it's the first webpage I ever made, but it keeps the flags in (semi) orderly fashion.

If you have any comments throw 'em up on the Browncoat Flags thread I started specifically to get rotten tomatoes hurled at me.

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"

My eerie-ass website:
http://gunhandsfirefly.homestead.com/Index.html

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