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Originally posted by traveler:
They even mess with the Bible.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:
First off:

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Originally posted by traveler:
They even mess with the Bible.

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So does everyone else, especially the church.

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Originally posted by traveler:
I was just over in the "Other Science Fiction" discussion forum. I guess Hollywood really did a number on Starship Troopers. I will have to read these books to see what everyone is talking about.

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This is just another example of Hollywood doing their own thing. I go to movies more often with an open mind. I have seen to many movies jog away from the original book that I actually expect now.

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Originally posted by traveler:

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:
First off:

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Originally posted by traveler:
They even mess with the Bible.

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So does everyone else, especially the church.

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This is just another example of Hollywood doing their own thing. I go to movies more often with an open mind. I have seen to many movies jog away from the original book that I actually expect now.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

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Originally posted by traveler:
I was just over in the "Other Science Fiction" discussion forum. I guess Hollywood really did a number on Starship Troopers. I will have to read these books to see what everyone is talking about.

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Definitely, the book is awesome and way better then the movie.

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I think that Cameron's job is to be a third faction in the Connor/Skynet war. She could lead to the creation of a Skynet that can coexist with humanity.

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Originally posted by freelancertex:
Ew, is the movie industry REALLY that desperate?

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Originally posted by Traveler: Did you see the "300"? If they can put a seven foot tall Xerxes on the screen then they will do anything they like. They are really reaching these days.

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Originally posted by freelancertex:

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You know the movie industry is getting desperate when they start making sequels to everything that's already been made. It's just sad.

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The same thing can be seen in the music business. Bands remaking old classics. They sell because the origionals were so good you could distort them and alter them and the message still gets through.

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Originally posted by Fidsah:
You know, if you listen to the opening monologue, you gain some solid insight into how this story is being written.

"In the future, my son will lead mankind in a war on SkyNet, the computer system programmed to destory the world.

"It has sent machines back through time.

"Some to kill him.

"One to protect him."

So according to the show, SkyNet itself sent Cameron back to protect John Connor.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

In the first place they have never really explained how the device actually works, and like almost all time travel presentations they fail to consider the most basic element to it...that of objects in space travelling at great speeds. The Earth and everything on it orbits the sun, and the entire solar system orbits the galactic center....so if you time travel 20 years into the past, you also need a method to travel hundreds of millions of miles to "capture" Earth...'cause it 'aint where it used to be ...it's far far away.

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

In the first place they have never really explained how the device actually works, and like almost all time travel presentations they fail to consider the most basic element to it...that of objects in space travelling at great speeds. The Earth and everything on it orbits the sun, and the entire solar system orbits the galactic center....so if you time travel 20 years into the past, you also need a method to travel hundreds of millions of miles to "capture" Earth...'cause it 'aint where it used to be ...it's far far away.

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Thanks for spelling this out because I've been too lazy to do so. This is the best explanation of why the effects of "The Time Machine" are suspect.
However, have you considered the factor of Gravity? The space-time field is greatly effected by gravity, check Einstein's works. If Time and Gravity are interdependant, an object (person) within Earth's Gravity field could be kept within Earth's Time and Gravity parameters while travelling back and forward in Earth's Time periods. This would help keep one with Earth's position in orbit around the Sun, and also with Earth as our Galaxy moves through the Universe. But rotating with the Earth, likely not. On
Earth, our Gravity is counteracted by centrifugal force. The suspension of centrifugal force due to lack of the object (person) spinning around would free up the Gravity to balance the Time travel (warping/shifting of Time). This would suggest the object would be swallowed by the mountain ranges as the World Turns underfoot, and destinating times and locations would need careful calculation. But this takes care of the larger space concern of travelling Galaxies and the speed of Earth through the Universe.

Outside of a decent Gravity, tho, might be a different matter. Consider a spaceship leaves the Gravity fields of Earth and even the Sun. Time travelling would leave them in likely another solar system. Then they reverse time travel while in the Gravity field of that system - thus they are back at the same time thay left, but are now far, far from where they started. In, Effect, Time Warp Space Travel. Eh?

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Originally posted by Earlywarning:
Cameron is obviously Data's daughter sent back by the Federation Time Corps to make sure mankind attempts to destroy itself, meets the Vulcans and ultimately gives birth to the Federation.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

In the first place they have never really explained how the device actually works, and like almost all time travel presentations they fail to consider the most basic element to it...that of objects in space travelling at great speeds. The Earth and everything on it orbits the sun, and the entire solar system orbits the galactic center....so if you time travel 20 years into the past, you also need a method to travel hundreds of millions of miles to "capture" Earth...'cause it 'aint where it used to be ...it's far far away.

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Thanks for spelling this out because I've been too lazy to do so. This is the best explanation of why the effects of "The Time Machine" are suspect.
However, have you considered the factor of Gravity? The space-time field is greatly effected by gravity, check Einstein's works. If Time and Gravity are interdependant, an object (person) within Earth's Gravity field could be kept within Earth's Time and Gravity parameters while travelling back and forward in Earth's Time periods. This would help keep one with Earth's position in orbit around the Sun, and also with Earth as our Galaxy moves through the Universe. But rotating with the Earth, likely not. On
Earth, our Gravity is counteracted by centrifugal force. The suspension of centrifugal force due to lack of the object (person) spinning around would free up the Gravity to balance the Time travel (warping/shifting of Time). This would suggest the object would be swallowed by the mountain ranges as the World Turns underfoot, and destinating times and locations would need careful calculation. But this takes care of the larger space concern of travelling Galaxies and the speed of Earth through the Universe.

Outside of a decent Gravity, tho, might be a different matter. Consider a spaceship leaves the Gravity fields of Earth and even the Sun. Time travelling would leave them in likely another solar system. Then they reverse time travel while in the Gravity field of that system - thus they are back at the same time thay left, but are now far, far from where they started. In, Effect, Time Warp Space Travel. Eh?

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The space-travel conundrum has always bothered me about almost all time travel movies. At least in Time After Time they showed the time traveller ending up in San Francisco after beginning his voyage in London...I don't know if that is "scientifically" correct, but it was a nice touch nonetheless. Your "gravity" theory is interesting and compelling. It certainly would help rationalize all the other time travel movies like the 2 Time Machine movies, where the machine sat still in the same place as events in the past or future unfolded before the traveller's eyes. It kinda reminds me of Dune's folding space, travelling without moving.

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

Technically, saying TTSCC is a seperate timeline from T3 is the same as saying each sucessive installment is a seperate timel;ine from the previous installments. Really, if T2 was already an existing timeline in the future that sent back Kyle Reese, then they would have already fixed that problem the first time. If the T3 timeline was already existing in the future that sent back the terminators in T1 and T2, then they would have already fixed the T3 problem then. None of that happened because the subsequent timelines resulting from the last installment have to have the conclusions found in the future, and then the solution for the newset installment starts a newer "alternate" timeline - that is the goal of EACH and EVERY installment - to create an "alternate" timeline, with the hopefull result being Skynet doesn't score Judgement Day.
I don't see a conflict between T3, TTSCC, or what T4, T5, T6 could be.

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"We’re gonna go off on our own. I think the thing about T3 is, obviously there was just no Sarah Connor and that’s something the fans were never happy with. I don’t even think the people who made T3 were happy with that. It just wasn’t a choice of theirs. You know, Linda Hamilton was going through some things and didn’t want to be a part of it. They had a script at one point I know; there was a T3 that had Sarah in it. I’ve never read it. I don’t know anything about it. But I know that they did and they wanted to do that. They wanted it to be kind of her trilogy, and it never could be. So I think that my feeling was this TV series to me sort of serves as the third act to that trilogy - what could have happened had we followed that after T2. So I almost think of this as T3. To me it takes the place of T3. But also I think that sort of in the spirit of Terminator, it’s an alternate timeline. I know a lot of people get very worked up about the continuity and the canon and all that stuff. What I try to do is stay very, very true to the first two movies and then sort of take it from there. But always remain true to the spirit of everyone’s intent and again, take some time with this woman and explore what maybe would have happened."

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Originally posted by Storymark:

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

Technically, saying TTSCC is a seperate timeline from T3 is the same as saying each sucessive installment is a seperate timel;ine from the previous installments. Really, if T2 was already an existing timeline in the future that sent back Kyle Reese, then they would have already fixed that problem the first time. If the T3 timeline was already existing in the future that sent back the terminators in T1 and T2, then they would have already fixed the T3 problem then. None of that happened because the subsequent timelines resulting from the last installment have to have the conclusions found in the future, and then the solution for the newset installment starts a newer "alternate" timeline - that is the goal of EACH and EVERY installment - to create an "alternate" timeline, with the hopefull result being Skynet doesn't score Judgement Day.
I don't see a conflict between T3, TTSCC, or what T4, T5, T6 could be.

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Either you are really committed to thinking it all gels, or you don't get it. Yeah, some of the quotes were veiled, but the show hadn't started, and they were trying not to let things slip.

Here's the thing: In the SCC timeline, the T3 Judgement Day in 2004 didn't happen. Cameron clearly states that Judgement Day was in 2011 - thus, different timeline.

T4 is following after the events in T3. Judgement day has happened, in 2004, as presented in the movie.

And yes, the date of Judgement day changed in T3 from T2 - but that was the pointmof the story - and Judgement day never happened in the present timeline in T1 or T2. It was still in the future, and thus, mutable. In T3, it was no longer a possibility - it happened. And SCC takes place after that, with the world still intact.

I think this quote from Friedman in the IGN interview says it all (I thought I had included it in the original post, but missed it):

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"We’re gonna go off on our own. I think the thing about T3 is, obviously there was just no Sarah Connor and that’s something the fans were never happy with. I don’t even think the people who made T3 were happy with that. It just wasn’t a choice of theirs. You know, Linda Hamilton was going through some things and didn’t want to be a part of it. They had a script at one point I know; there was a T3 that had Sarah in it. I’ve never read it. I don’t know anything about it. But I know that they did and they wanted to do that. They wanted it to be kind of her trilogy, and it never could be. So I think that my feeling was this TV series to me sort of serves as the third act to that trilogy - what could have happened had we followed that after T2. So I almost think of this as T3. To me it takes the place of T3. But also I think that sort of in the spirit of Terminator, it’s an alternate timeline. I know a lot of people get very worked up about the continuity and the canon and all that stuff. What I try to do is stay very, very true to the first two movies and then sort of take it from there. But always remain true to the spirit of everyone’s intent and again, take some time with this woman and explore what maybe would have happened."

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http://tv.ign.com/articles/798/798086p1.html

He slags off T3 several times, says clearly that he is only following 1&2, calls his show a replacement for T3, and stright-up says it's an alternate timeline. What more proof does anyone need?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Originally posted by Cybersnark:
That timeline could easily have been rendered null within T2 itself.

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