anyone else bothered by "ain't" ?? by fabala30

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anyone else bothered by "ain't" ??

POSTED BY: FABALA30
UPDATED: Thursday, October 24, 2002 13:23
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Saturday, October 19, 2002 10:32 AM

So far, I like the show a lot...however, the characters' use of the word "ain't" really seems out of place. I know it's supposed to be like the old west and everything, but these people seem fairly educated...it just doesn't seem like they should be saying "ain't" all the time. Am I missing something?

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 10:42 AM

REXRAYGUN

Quote:
Originally posted by fabala30:
So far, I like the show a lot...however, the characters' use of the word "ain't" really seems out of place. I know it's supposed to be like the old west and everything, but these people seem fairly educated...it just doesn't seem like they should be saying "ain't" all the time. Am I missing something?

Being from Texas, I don't see a problem with the usage of the word, so far as it's used correctly and isn't forced into otherwise proper speech. I'll use the word when just chooching around, but I would never type it, you know what I mean? Different speech patterns for different situations.

Another one that's misused all the time is "y'all." Y'all is a plural colloquialism. However, in Disney's "The Kid," Jean Smart misuses it about five times!

Just my dos pesos,

Rex!

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 5:53 PM

UFO

It's a western in space (much to my disliking), so it's full of period type words like "reckon" "fixin'" "ain't" etc.

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 6:10 PM

LOONYTOON

Sorry to burst your bubble, but many people up here in Alaska use every word you have mentioned. People say ain`t ain`t a word, but any word that is common in everyday conversation and everybody knows what it means is a word, it just ain`t been put in the dictionary yet. The words you are talking about may not be used much in the urban south(I live in Alaska, anything south of Canada is "down south"), but they are still in everyday use in other places, and not just by rednecks.

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 3:28 AM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND

Quote:
Originally posted by RexRaygun:

Another one that's misused all the time is "y'all." Y'all is a plural colloquialism. However, in Disney's "The Kid," Jean Smart misuses it about five times!

Just my dos pesos,

Rex!

You even spelled it right! You are from the South. Its the plural part that Hollywood seems to have a problem with, those silly Yanks'll stick it anywhere.
Even though I use it myself I still hate the word ain't. Just don't like the way it sounds. But since when are 'reckon' and 'fixin' period words? I'm just waiting for somebody to use 'yonder' or 'wallago'. I grew up saying all of these, and pronouncing 'wash' with an r but I swear I'm over that now.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 3:37 AM

EVANS

I like the rough grammar. These people are NOT necessarily well-educated, but that doesn't matter. It adds a flavor. It adds to the fantasy. It stops you, for a microsecond, and tickles your brain cells. It isn't pre-packaged or predictable.

My dad (from Oklahoma) chided us for using the words he used all the time: ain't, dasn't, et. didn't learn y'all till I moved to Texas. A VERY USEFUL WORD, should be in the official American English lexicon.

m.

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 5:51 AM

SAINTOFCHEESE

PEople can be well educated and still use bad grammar. You don't get as much "Ain't" up here, but there is a certain... hmm.. shall we say... Vermont accent that is prevalent. There are certain grammatical things that people use in speech simply because they have grown up with them. Sometimes they may know that they are wrong but it doesn't change it

~*Saint of Cheese*~

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 6:07 AM

RADWORLD

My only problem with it is that it sounds way too forced by some the actors. I know folks that se it and rolls off the tounge. The actors saying probably have gone to classes for years trying to break speech habits like it and it sounds uncomfortable. Plus everyone seems to use it...not so with the country. I wouldn't mind it if 1 or 2 characters said it...but they use it as a crutch and as filler sometimes. IMHO.

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 9:40 AM

FABALA30

Yes! This is EXACTLY what I meant. It sounds unnatural. If they were speaking with southern accents, I think it would be completely different. Even Alan Tudyk/Wash (the sole reason I started watching the show) doesn't sound right saying it, and he is from Texas! There are plenty of other shows and movies where people say "ain't" all the time, and it doesn't bother me a bit because it sounds completely natural. Here it seems to stick out like a sore thumb.

I hope I did not offend by implying that people who say "ain't" are uneducated. I have been educated here myself from these responses--this Yankee had no idea "ain't" was so commonly used...especially in Alaska!

Thanks for the input.

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 9:44 AM

REXRAYGUN

Quote:
Originally posted by radworld:
My only problem with it is that it sounds way too forced by some the actors. I know folks that se it and rolls off the tounge. The actors saying probably have gone to classes for years trying to break speech habits like it and it sounds uncomfortable. Plus everyone seems to use it...not so with the country. I wouldn't mind it if 1 or 2 characters said it...but they use it as a crutch and as filler sometimes. IMHO.

I think Kaylee is the worst about it sounding forced, but I could be wrong.

I think the strangest local way of speaking that I've heard for the USA is from a friend of mine who lived in Pennsylvania. SHe said that folks would say things like "Throw yer ma down the stairs the car keys, wouldja?" Wild!

Just my dos pesos,

Rex!

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 10:27 AM

SAINTOFCHEESE

Quote:
Originally posted by fabala30:
Alan Tudyk/Wash (the sole reason I started watching the show)

hehe.. nothing to do with the subject of this thread... i just had to say that i agree. He's why I started watching it too.

~*Saint of Cheese*~

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 12:03 PM

EVANS

Quote:
words like 'gorramn' and 'shiney'

And "eerie-ass." I am adding that to my vocabulary.

m.

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 4:41 PM

SAINTOFCHEESE

yea.. what's up with "shiny?"

~*Saint of Cheese*~

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 7:42 PM

HAPLO721

"Shiny" makes just as much sense as a synonym for "good" as "cool" does when you think about it.

PS. "y'all" is singular.
"all y'all" is plural.
"y'all's" is singular possessive.
"all y'all's" is plural possessive.

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 8:07 PM

MALCOLM

Quote:
Originally posted by Haplo721:
PS. "y'all" is singular.
"all y'all" is plural.
"y'all's" is singular possessive.
"all y'all's" is plural possessive.

And don't forget:
"you'uns" is plural
"y'uns" is a further contraction of "you'uns"

-MBS

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Monday, October 21, 2002 1:42 AM

QUILL

As it happens, I believe "ain't" is not actually improper grammar as the rules of grammar go, despite what teachers/parents say. It is, however, considered so, and therefore influences listeners. Just another example of how insane English can be.

"This is the sort of English up with which I will not put." --Winston Churchill

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Monday, October 21, 2002 3:21 AM

BULBUS

It's one of the funny rules about English, what we mean and should say, we don't. I use "ain't" unconsciously and have said Y'all any number of times. I've lived in New Jersey, Florida, North Carolina, and Ohio and have heard the same thing there as well.

I can't speak for the South though, (Florida isn't considered the South, live there, it's true) so you'd have to ask someone from there whether they use the word's often.

And as for "reckon", it's just a great word. A person sounds cool when they say it well.

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Monday, October 21, 2002 4:40 AM

KALIMAC

Just for your information, when I lived in Scotland, quite a few people would use the word "ain't".

Of course, the sound of it is very different there (almost like "en't", oftentimes) but it is essentially the same word.

As language evolves, it tends to get more sloppy. Face it, "ain't" is here to stay.

Keep Flying

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Monday, October 21, 2002 8:03 AM

ILOVEJAYNE

I'm gald somebody else noticed this. I wince when Mal and Kaylee use it, especially. It stands out so much because they're so careful with their pronunciation. (I'm used to hearin' folks who's used to misusin' them thar words!

)

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Monday, October 21, 2002 8:20 AM

ILOVEJAYNE

"glad", I meant.

Oh, and by the way, some of Florida is southern. Northern Florida is Southern and Southern Florida is Northern. Or Foreign.

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Monday, October 21, 2002 9:01 AM

HAPLO721

Quote:
Originally posted by Thegn:
Y'all is not singular. Y'all is plural. No self-respecting southerner would ever use that phrase in the singular.

Yankee.

Well, it's correct in the Orlando area anyway. So says my cousin who lived there for 2 years.

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Monday, October 21, 2002 10:24 AM

GATORMARC

Quote:
Originally posted by Haplo721:
Quote:
Originally posted by Thegn:
Y'all is not singular. Y'all is plural. No self-respecting southerner would ever use that phrase in the singular.

Yankee.

Well, it's correct in the Orlando area anyway. So says my cousin who lived there for 2 years.

That is incorrect... I live in Orlando and anyone of southern heritage in Orlando would not use "y'all" in the singular. Your cousin must be hanging out with carpet baggers.

As for ain't...

I don't understand why people seem to think that it's uneducated. Ain't is a legal contraction... it's been in the English language for about 400 years and it ain't going anywhere.

For the record, "Southern" is the most grammatically correct English in the US if spoken correctly (this means, not back wood Southern but educated southern). It sounds like another case where people from up north are uneducated on the language, and just assume that they are speaking it correctly when they aren't.

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Monday, October 21, 2002 12:39 PM

ZENCAT

Quote:
Originally posted by GatorMarc:

As for ain't...

I don't understand why people seem to think that it's uneducated. Ain't is a legal contraction... it's been in the English language for about 400 years and it ain't going anywhere.

You're right, "ain't" has been around for hundreds of years, and it used to be correct. It's the proper contraction of "am not", so technically, back then, "I ain't" was correct, but "you ain't" and "he ain't" were not. I love the way they talk on Firefly; agreeing completely with what someone said previously, the differences in the characters' speech patterns are one of the lovely touches that make this world seem so real. I don't think it sounds forced or unnatural at all. Hell, even the addition of Chinese phrases doesn't sound unnatural, and that just shows how good these actors are! In "Our Mrs. Reynolds," at one point Wash started a sentence in Chinese and finished in English, and it was such a smooth transition I almost didn't notice it.

Also, I'm from Tennessee, and to add my two cents, "y'all" is plural.

-Zencat

"Scandal is the pornography of Puritans."

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Monday, October 21, 2002 1:17 PM

RADWORLD

Well coming from the land that gave you "Yeah, Der hey" and "youse"...as in "youse guys want a beer?". I uderstand the complexities of language(sarcasm alert). I too love the Chinese on the show but that seems to ome off far better than some of their "ain'ts". Especially with Kaylee. But thats just me...I ain't always right.

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Monday, October 21, 2002 2:37 PM

EVANS

How about this. The show is set in the future. By magic or weird science, we get a glimpse into the future. But, oh, the language has changed so much we can't follow it at all. The broadcast from the future is translated by some brilliant but buggy software. What we hear is what we get. Don't like the grammar? Blame it on the software developer, future-actively.

Y'all are probably too young to remember Pogo Possum.

m.

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Monday, October 21, 2002 10:44 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED

Well, all I have to say is if English has like 100,000 words, then why doesn't it have a mesely plural second person pronoun? If people are having to make up words like ya'll and youse, then it's English's own fault for not having a vosotros of its own like any decent, self-respecting langauge. Cause, you all know, saying "you all" gets kind of tiring sometimes.

________________

"You still don't get it. It's not about right. It's not about wrong... It's about Power." —Morph-O-Monster, "Lessons"

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Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:03 AM

EVANS

What we lose by not having vosotros or even Ustedes we gain by not having to genderize every frelling word. In fact, we often use the grammatically incorrect they so that we don't have to specify he or she ("Who was that on the phone?" "They didn't say").

m.

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Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:37 AM

QUILL

Quote:
Originally posted by Evans:
Y'all are probably too young to remember Pogo Possum.

I GO POGO!!

Inside every cynic there's an idealist desperately yearning to be let out, and when they are let out they're usually a real pain and cause all sorts of trouble. --Chris Boucher

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Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:59 AM

LIVINGIMPAIRED

Quote:
Originally posted by Evans:
What we lose by not having vosotros or even Ustedes we gain by not having to genderize every frelling word. In fact, we often use the grammatically incorrect they so that we don't have to specify he or she ("Who was that on the phone?" "They didn't say").

m.

I'm not asking for a gender specific second person plural pronoun. Besides, "they" as a nuter third person singular is grammatically incorrect, as my English teachers have repeatidly reminded me over the years. Another flaut of English. There needs to be a nuter 3rd singluar that doesn't imply an inadimate object.

________________

"You still don't get it. It's not about right. It's not about wrong... It's about Power." —Morph-O-Monster, "Lessons"

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Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:48 AM

LOONYTOON

I maintain that grammaticly correct english can actually be harder to understand. American is a dialect of english, that has many of its own words and contractions. If you don`t like speaking american, you don`t have to. I always got bad grades on english papers, as I refused to wright dialogue the "proper" way, instead writing it like people actually talk. As for southern english being the most correct, my sister has a boyfriend from texas, and I have to ask him to repeat himself sometimes cuz of the "southern mumble", I can`t understand him!

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Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:20 PM

DELSIE

The usage of the word "ain't" on the show hasn't actually bothered me at all. To be completely honest, I hadn't really noticed it and most of the people that I know don't use "ain't" in regular conversation.

Maybe if I went back and rewatched the episodes I'd understand why people are complaining about the delievery, but it hasn't been that bad. At least not to my ears.

~Delsie.

"A friend of mine once sent me a postcard with a picture of the entire planet Earth taken from space. On the back it said 'Wish you were here.'" - Steven Wright

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Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:58 PM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.

Ain't bothered me none.

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Thursday, October 24, 2002 10:43 AM

ILOVEJAYNE

Y'all is always, ALWAYS plural!

There is only one way I've thought of that might have caused the misunderstanding.

I ran into my aunt at the grocery store one day and asked, "How've y'all been doin'?" I wasn't asking about her alone, but about her daughters and their families, whom she talks to more than I. Now, if someone who wasn't familiar with Southern English heard the conversation, I can see where the mixup would come from.

(I could see a lot of mixups from that conversation, actually.)

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Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:23 PM

GUANTES

I like the useage and abuseage in Firefly.... there is nothing wrong with saying the odd contraction, otherwise you end up sounding mechanical and/or poncey.

They do make more than one comment about Simon sounding and acting posh or whatever, so its not really surprising that the others sound a bit more down and dirty....

Besides I like the interesting way that sentances are constructed, it can be so boring saying everything the same way. Messing with the grammer of the characters brings attention to what they are saying, I just love it.

Ohh and FYI I found 'reckon' on dictionary.com not sure if its official or nothing but its there.

reck·on Pronunciation Key (rkn)
v. reck·oned, reck·on·ing, reck·ons
v. tr.
1. To count or compute: reckon the cost. See Synonyms at calculate.
2. To consider as being; regard as. See Synonyms at consider.
3. Informal. To think or assume.

Also: http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=ain%27t for more on "ain't"

Phil
"I'm not ashamed. It's the computer age. Nerds are in. They're still in, right?" -Willow

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