Enough of the politcal crap!! by NTXBROWNCOAT

Welcome to the board.

1. I don't watch commercials.
2. I don't listen to the song, "More Than Words".
3. There's a poster on this board who I find offensive and ignorant to the extreme and I ignore anything with his name on it.

Why do I mention this? Because there is freedom of choice and I'm going to propose a radical course of action for you ...

If you don't like political threads - don't read 'em.

Again, welcome to the board.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Friday, May 7, 2004 6:39 AM

TALVIN

Well, I have already weighed in to say that I don't think the politics belong on this board either. If people *really* want to talk about it, move it to Troll Country and let them do so quietly.

"I give up. I admit it. I'm a Browncoat."

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Friday, May 7, 2004 6:42 AM

There's no reason to move it to Troll Country, unless there is an actual Troll involved. For the most part, the debates are fairly respectful. One of the freedoms we hold dear in this country is the right to speak our minds and discuss the topics dear to us. I'm not a big fan of political threads, so I don't generally read them. If you don't want to be part of politicial discussion on this board, you have every right to ignore those threads as well; and that right would be supported by each and everyone who logs into this site.

If it really bothers you that much, you could send Haken an e-mail via the messaging system here, suggesting that he start a "Political Discussions" forum - much like the "Firefly Universe" for the role players, "Angelus Arcanum" for Angel fans, etc.

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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Friday, May 7, 2004 7:21 AM

TALVIN

"Freedom of Speech" is often mentioned, but the First Amendment is there to protect the People from infringements by the Government (and by programs sponsored, funded, or controlled by the Government). It's a great thing, and I make use of it often.

However, a private entity has the right to regulate speech in its own environs. I submit to you that there already exists a clause by which the political threads do not belong here:

Quote:

General Discussions
General discussions and comments relating to Firefly.

Please explain to me how bringing the partisan squabbling that is already overloading our brains in the rest of the world onto this forum is relating to Firefly?

"I give up. I admit it. I'm a Browncoat."

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Friday, May 7, 2004 7:27 AM

^^^Note distinct lack of snarky tone...

Perhaps you didn't see the second part of my post...

If it really bothers you that much, you could send Haken an e-mail via the messaging system here, suggesting that he start a "Political Discussions" forum - much like the "Firefly Universe" for the role players, "Angelus Arcanum" for Angel fans, etc.

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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Friday, May 7, 2004 7:34 AM

BADGERSHAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Knibblet:
Welcome to the board.

1. I don't watch commercials.
2. I don't listen to the song, "More Than Words".
3. There's a poster on this board who I find offensive and ignorant to the extreme and I ignore anything with his name on it.

Why do I mention this? Because there is freedom of choice and I'm going to propose a radical course of action for you ...

If you don't like political threads - don't read 'em.

Again, welcome to the board.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

... and WHAT, pray tell, is wrong with the song "More than Words"????!?!?!?!

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Friday, May 7, 2004 7:46 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I generally avoid the political threads for many reasons, not the least of which is that I do not like to read, discuss, or argue political beliefs or leanings. I have come to respect and admire several people on this board, and would not want any conflict of political interests or beliefs to jeopardize those friendships.

While I do not care for all the political threads cropping up, or the inevitable America bashing that always follows, I do still read them from time to time, to check links and articles people post to keep myself informed from multiple sources of info.

As far as whether they "belong" here or not, I don't think that is for us to decide. This is an open forum. If you do not wish to participate, don't.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Friday, May 7, 2004 7:58 AM

LIZ

"more than words" is, esentially, the story of a guy trying to get a girl to sleep with him.
"...but if you only knew / How easy / it would be to / show me how you feel / More than words / is all you have to do / to make it real / Then you wouldn't / have to say / that you love me / Cos I'd already know"

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Friday, May 7, 2004 8:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by liz:
"more than words" is, esentially, the story of a guy trying to get a girl to sleep with him.

That's an interesting take on it. What I'd always gotten from that song is a man trying to say that just saying "I love you" doesn't make everything alright again. ("Then you couldn't make things new/Just by saying I Love You"); however, I will concede that different people get different things from the same song.

More Than Words by Extreme
Saying I love you
Is not the words I want to hear from you
It's not that I want you
Not to say, but if you only knew
How easy it would be to show me how you feel
More than words is all you have to do to make it real
Then you wouldn't have to say that you love me
Cos I'd already know
What would you do if my heart was torn in two
More than words to show you feel
That your love for me is real
What would you say if I took those words away
Then you couldn't make things new
Just by saying I love you

More than words

Now I've tried to talk to you and make you understand
All you have to do is close your eyes
And just reach out your hands and touch me
Hold me close don't ever let me go
More than words is all I ever needed you to show
Then you wouldn't have to say that you love me
Cos I'd already know

What would you do if my heart was torn in two
More than words to show you feel
That your love for me is real
What would you say if I took those words away
Then you couldn't make things new
Just by saying I love you

More than words

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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Friday, May 7, 2004 8:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Knibblet:
I don't listen to the song, "More Than Words".

Quote:
Originally posted by BadgersHat:
... and WHAT, pray tell, is wrong with the song "More than Words"?

My mother taught me to have respect for myself and taught me that any boy who told me that I should 'prove my love' didn't deserve my love.

The lyrics to "More Than Words" are of a male of the species telling a female that she should stop telling him that she loves him and instead, *prove* she loves him. I can only assume this proof would come in the form of her feet being at 10 & 2.

I do not appreciate the disrespectful message of the song and hope that young girls don't fall for the bull in it.

Lyrics to "More Than Words":

Saying 'I Love you' is not the words
I want to hear from you
It's not that I want you not to say
But if you only knew
How easy it would be to show me how you feel
More than words is all you have to do
To make it real then you wouldn't have to say
That you love me 'cuz I'd already know

What would you do if my heart was torn in two
More than words to show you feel
That your love for me is real
What would you say if I took those words away
Then you couldn't make things new
Just by saying I love you

More than words
Now that I've tried to talk to you
And make you understand all you have to do
is close your eyes and just reach out your hands

And touch me hold me close
Don't ever let me go
More than words is all I ever needed you to show
Then you wouldn't have to say
That you love me 'cause I already know

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Friday, May 7, 2004 8:09 AM

DELIA

Okay, this is me being relatively new to the posting world, but what is "Troll Country"?

As for the political threads, I ignore them, but if people want to talk politics, I'm all for it. I just don't chose to be a participant (ain't it great to have the freedom to do either?). I think I'd have a problem with it if threads were labeled "Thoughts on Our Mrs. Reynolds" and then had a post that was all about politics, but since those threads are clearly labeled (and thus avoidable), I'm not sure what the problem is.

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Friday, May 7, 2004 8:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Knibblet:
Quote:
Originally posted by Knibblet:
I don't listen to the song, "More Than Words".
Quote:
Originally posted by BadgersHat:
... and WHAT, pray tell, is wrong with the song "More than Words"?
My mother taught me to have respect for myself and taught me that any boy who told me that I should 'prove my love' didn't deserve my love.

The lyrics to "More Than Words" are of a male of the species telling a female that she should stop telling him that she loves him and instead, *prove* she loves him. I can only assume this proof would come in the form of her feet being at 10 & 2.

I do not appreciate the disrespectful message of the song and hope that young girls don't fall for the bull in it.

Absolutely agreed, Knibblet. That's why I truly despise Rod Stewart's "Tonight's the Night"

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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Friday, May 7, 2004 8:16 AM

EMBERS

Bears repeating:

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I generally avoid the political threads for many reasons, not the least of which is that I do not like to read, discuss, or argue political beliefs or leanings. I have come to respect and admire several people on this board, and would not want any conflict of political interests or beliefs to jeopardize those friendships.

While I do not care for all the political threads cropping up, or the inevitable America bashing that always follows, I do still read them from time to time, to check links and articles people post to keep myself informed from multiple sources of info.

As far as whether they "belong" here or not, I don't think that is for us to decide. This is an open forum. If you do not wish to participate, don't.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

I feel that getting into political (and of course also, religious...but we've done that here too) discussions run the danger of breaking apart this community for no good reason.

We have formed a community of people who wish to enjoy our obsession w/the Whedonverse, most importantly: Firefly, and to damage the friendships and fellow-feeling with bitter RL arguments seems to me to be counter-productive to our purpose here. I have avoided the threads because I could quickly see that I would learn to despise many of the people who find it necessary to beat up others with their opinions.

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Friday, May 7, 2004 8:30 AM

BADGERSHAT

Actually, Gary Cherone wrote "More Than Words" from his girlfriend's point of view--it's supposed to be HER singing the song to HIM...

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Friday, May 7, 2004 8:31 AM

Ah, there IS someone else who thinks it's about using more than the words to make things right.

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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Friday, May 7, 2004 8:37 AM

As if we needed more proof that men have no understanding of women and no idea what women are thinking?
:)

Quote:
Originally posted by BadgersHat:
Actually, Gary Cherone wrote "More Than Words" from his girlfriend's point of view--it's supposed to be HER singing the song to HIM...

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Friday, May 7, 2004 8:37 AM

MERLINDREA

Hi all,

a very good rl friend of mine is in the opposing political spectrum. We like a lot of the same things, including Firefly, but we can fight for hours about politics.

She taught me a very important lesson: You don't have to agree to somebody in all points to be friends. And if you are really good friends, you can even talk about these controversial topics and still be friends afterwards.

I think as long as people are respectful and polite, any discussion - and may it be over their favourite chocolate pie recipe - should be allowed, as long as it is clearly labeled. But the last decision should be Haken's - its his board, his work, his hardware we are using, so if he feels we should stick to Firefly topics, I'm fine with that.

Merl

My days of taking you not seriously are certainly coming to a middle.

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Friday, May 7, 2004 8:45 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
Bears repeating:
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I generally avoid the political threads for many reasons, not the least of which is that I do not like to read, discuss, or argue political beliefs or leanings. I have come to respect and admire several people on this board, and would not want any conflict of political interests or beliefs to jeopardize those friendships.

While I do not care for all the political threads cropping up, or the inevitable America bashing that always follows, I do still read them from time to time, to check links and articles people post to keep myself informed from multiple sources of info.

As far as whether they "belong" here or not, I don't think that is for us to decide. This is an open forum. If you do not wish to participate, don't.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

I feel that getting into political (and of course also, religious...but we've done that here too) discussions run the danger of breaking apart this community for no good reason.

We have formed a community of people who wish to enjoy our obsession w/the Whedonverse, most importantly: Firefly, and to damage the friendships and fellow-feeling with bitter RL arguments seems to me to be counter-productive to our purpose here. I have avoided the threads because I could quickly see that I would learn to despise many of the people who find it necessary to beat up others with their opinions.

My point exactly Embers.

There is little in life worth losing the feeling of camaraderie we enjoy here, the least of which should be politics.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Friday, May 7, 2004 8:56 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by NTXBROWNCOAT:
I have been lurking for a while now and haven't posted yet because I didn't really have anything to say. Well that changed today when I came on to check the recent posts and saw not one but two new politically oriented posts.

Hello NXTBrowncoat and welcome aboard. Don't let these folks scare you - they're passionate, and fearless, but pretty darn okay.

I guess if you've been lurking for awhile then it can't have escaped your notice that politically oriented posts have been part of FFF.net since the beginning. I posted once myself when the conceal carry law was passed in Minnesota, just to assuage my own silly little fears about the prospect of folks carrying handguns in my immediate vicinity. Not necessarily politically oriented, but certainly human interest. I bet the OB even has political messages on it - there's really no way to avoid them these days.

I think it's also fair to say that political posts are the ultimate side-effect of having intellegent people co-mingling online. Firefly has a tendency to attract people who have their minds divided by a plethora of current events and issues and sometimes they just need to let it out before it drives them River-crazy. I believe that they choose to do this on FFF.net in order to discuss their view or confusion with other intelligent people who's opinions they have come to value, much the same way as you have right now.

You posed some valid concerns and views yourself. FFF.net is indeed a public forum - a place for us to talk about all manner of issues. As Haken's advisement at the top of this reply page says, there is an open policy here. Luckily, those who chose to discuss politics often mark their threads accordingly, making it easy for the rest to avoid them. If you prefer to avoid in the political or religions discussions - don't click on them.

Funny thing is, it was the word "crap" in your title that drew me in here, and not "politcal" which I didn't notice was misspelled until I got here. Now what does that say, I wonder?

Something else - I'll readily admit to anyone that I'm a Christian and that I'll be 37 soon, but asking me about my political standing is a lot like asking me about my weight. That seem right to you?

Now then, back to the Firefly Universe to catch up on my RP posting!

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Friday, May 7, 2004 9:43 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS

So, Channain...how much do you weigh? :)
Heck, I'm sorry, I just couldn't help it. :D

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Friday, May 7, 2004 9:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BlackoutNights:
So, Channain...how much do you weigh? :)
Heck, I'm sorry, I just couldn't help it. :D

About half of what I weigh. I come in around 270 pounds. That makes Channain a mere slip of a girl at 135.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Friday, May 7, 2004 9:51 AM

WREN

Quote:
Originally posted by Delia:
Okay, this is me being relatively new to the posting world, but what is "Troll Country"?

Haken has set the site up so the community section has different message areas. If you set up a thread about BTVS it should be in the Buffyverse area, if you want to discuss something in the news the thread should be set up in the News Headline area etc. My understanding is that the Troll Country area is for threads where people have been rude or offensive in someway, such as insulting Firefly. The following is an example of a troll thread:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=15&t=1188

However, at present everyone seems to be setting all the threads up in the General discussions area (which is only suppose to be for discussions and comments relating to Firefly).

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Friday, May 7, 2004 9:55 AM

TOMTBA2004

i agree. i am getting tired of this crap. all against pres. bush. get over it. there is a war don't bitch about it.

"please, people need peace"

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Friday, May 7, 2004 9:55 AM

TOMTBA2004

....

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Friday, May 7, 2004 9:56 AM

TOMTBA2004

....go to a politcial site to discuss them.

"please, people need peace"

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Friday, May 7, 2004 10:29 AM

SPLIBERTARIAN

Political discussions don't bother me.

Political discussions on this site don't bother me.

Firefly-relevant posts getting bumped off the front page of the "General Discussions" forum before I even get a chance to see them does bother me.

I would truly appreciate it if a "Non-Firefly Related Political Discussions" forum were added.

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Friday, May 7, 2004 10:40 AM

NTXBROWNCOAT

OK, sorry I misspelled political in my thread subject title, also crap is probably inappropriate. I let my frustration get the better of me. I think I may have missed the mark with getting what I wanted to say across. In such a short period of time I have recieved several responses to my opinion. Unless its news Big Damn News about the Big Damn Movie, no other threads here get so much attention is so short a time. I come to this site to learn more about Firefly. I get disappointed when I see the most traffic on the political threads. I don't usually read the threads because the one time I did, I found myself getting very frustrated when I would read someone's opinion that I felt was uninformed. I am not trying to keep people from speaking their mind. To me its like turning on your radio to your favorite station and instead of finding music you find talk radio. I am not against talk radio, I just expected different content. I know I am not going to change everyones mind about posting political opinions on this site. Actually, I expect that some will do so out of spite. My suggestion to those who like to participate in such discussions is for moving those discussions to a forum more (in my opinion) appropriate, or creating a forum more appropriate. Thank you to all those who sent your welcome to me, it is much appreciated. Thanks also to Haken for providing such a shiny place for us all!

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Friday, May 7, 2004 10:54 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by BlackoutNights:
So, Channain...how much do you weigh? :)
Heck, I'm sorry, I just couldn't help it. :D

Yeah! What Knibblet said!

No worries.

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Friday, May 7, 2004 11:52 AM

KELLAINA

Isn't it kinda funny that this thread has become almost... political?

Anyway... I've always associated Firefly with the political threads, mostly because I originally lurked around the OB more than here, and at the OB most of the off-topic discussion tends to be political.

I have to agree with whoever (I'm sorry, I knew who said it when I started writing but the name has now completely slipped my mind) said that all of the political discussion is likely due to the sort of people who watch Firefly - people who tend to be passionate and intelligent (kind of like Serenity's crew

.

Personally, I rarely participate in the poli threads but I do enjoy reading them and seeing different viewpoints. I find it interesting to see how people from different areas view different events. And I know that there other forums specifically for this, but they don't talk about Firefly and quite frankly tend to be kind of scary.

So, the point of this long and winding thread...
- if it bugs you, don't read it.

But feel free to disagree... that is afterall, the point.

Oh, btw - Welcome NTXBROWNCOAT!!!

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Friday, May 7, 2004 12:23 PM

MACBAKER

I coun't agree more NXTBROWNCOAT! I've seen too many good boards ruined by political threads. One person starts his baited rant, slinging the latest political propaganda his (or her) party of choice is spewing. Those that don't agree, respond with their own propaganda, and the thread just continues and slips quickly into a flame war and petty name calling. It never accomplishes anything.

The fact is, I'm tired of hearing the lemmings spout their favorite party's spin on everything. Neither party has the answer, and the sooner we start demanding reform for both parties, nothing is really going to change. Until we have terms limits, a line item veto, income tax reform, and a viable third party, nothing will change. We'll keep shifting back and forth from a socialist party and a facist party, both trying to convince a gullible public that they are moderate.

There, I've given my rant, and you should note that it wasn't anti Bush or anti Kerry, it was anti politics over good government! I'll get off my soapbox, and avoid any other mindless political threads (and I recommend those with common sense to do the same).

Take care.

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Friday, May 7, 2004 12:48 PM

DARKJESTER

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Knibblet:
I don't listen to the song, "More Than Words".

Quote:
Originally posted by BadgersHat:
... and WHAT, pray tell, is wrong with the song "More than Words"?

My mother taught me to have respect for myself and taught me that any boy who told me that I should 'prove my love' didn't deserve my love.

The lyrics to "More Than Words" are of a male of the species telling a female that she should stop telling him that she loves him and instead, *prove* she loves him. I can only assume this proof would come in the form of her feet being at 10 & 2.

I do not appreciate the disrespectful message of the song and hope that young girls don't fall for the bull in it.

Lyrics to "More Than Words":

Saying 'I Love you' is not the words
I want to hear from you
It's not that I want you not to say
But if you only knew
How easy it would be to show me how you feel
More than words is all you have to do
To make it real then you wouldn't have to say
That you love me 'cuz I'd already know

What would you do if my heart was torn in two
More than words to show you feel
That your love for me is real
What would you say if I took those words away
Then you couldn't make things new
Just by saying I love you

More than words
Now that I've tried to talk to you
And make you understand all you have to do
is close your eyes and just reach out your hands

And touch me hold me close
Don't ever let me go
More than words is all I ever needed you to show
Then you wouldn't have to say
That you love me 'cause I already know

Wow! Guess it goes to show just how different two takes on the same song can be. I LOVE the song. To me, it's someone saying to their partner that words have become shallow. Being in love means not having to constantly say "I love you". Just holding each other can express more than those three words. It never ocurred to me that it could be heard as an attempt to extort sex! Maybe because I'm a guy, and no-one ever tried to use the "If you love me you will" line on me.....

EDIT - That last line is in NO WAY an attempt to belittle Knibblet - sorry, typed first, re-read later!

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

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Friday, May 7, 2004 1:17 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
I just come here to as a welcome escape from the "real" world, and it really bothers me that some of the most active threads are the ones where people have endless arguments over who is right or wrong.

I could not agree more. There is an entire net out there for folks to post their views on what goes on in the real world. This crap about " if you don't care to participate .....then don't click " is horse shit. This is a FIREFLY fans board. We're here to discuss FIREFLY and such related topics. If the owners would care to put up a politics board to discuss earthly matters, that's fine. But I see no reason to pollute this fine board with political myrmidons with their pointless hyperbole and posturing.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, May 7, 2004 1:28 PM

ZOID

NTXBrowncoat:

I'm totally with you on this one. Political and religious discussions -- apart from speculation about those systems in Firefly -- belong somewhere else. The worst part about tolerating these threads ('if you don't want to talk politics, don't read the threads'), is that people get pissed in those discussions and then cross-post or otherwise leak their filth inappropriately into Firefly-related threads. I 'deeply dislike' reading interesting discussion threads while fearing that some !@#$%(* will evacuate his/her opinion on how evil Party 'A' is, while Party 'B' are clearly the saviours of all that is decent and wholesome. It's like being forced to watch someone vomit spaghetti bolognese...

I thought of at least three other things to say, but every one of them would have made folks fighting mad, so I just won't say them. That's the exact same reason I don't like 'real world' political discussions.

And hey! Welcome to our big happy family! There are a bunch of us who like to speculate on Firefly-related topics here, and we seem to be at least grudgingly tolerated by those with aspirations to political punditry.

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I felt sorry for River. If you can believe it, she was a frightened, confused child. Well... Things do change, don't they?"

- Zoë Warren, noted children's author, from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

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Friday, May 7, 2004 1:36 PM

SHINY

I recommend:

1) If you love political discussions with fellow browncoats (generally intelligent and well-spoken people with diverse experiences and viewpoints), spend lots of time at the OB: http://forums.prospero.com/foxfirefly

2) If you like to occasionally see/participate in political discussions, but want to spend most of your time (over)analyzing and (re)hashing Firefly episodes, characters, plotlines, and mysteries, spend lots of time here at FFF.net: http://www.fireflyfans.net

3) If you desperately want to avoid participating in or even seeing political topics/threads, spend most of your time at the Fireflymovie.com board: http://fireflydvd.com/phpBB2/

4) If you want to participate in a Firefly forum that BANS all political discourse...you may have to start your own site/board, because I'm not sure it exists yet.

Please help Haken keep this site running by occasionally clicking on some of the sponsored ad links on the side of the page!

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Saturday, May 8, 2004 7:33 AM

LEMAT

NTXBrowncoat,

"Talk story
discuss what ever you want here"

Talk story seems to be the off topic board--especially since every other board has a topic. So it would make sense to me if political discussions were only in that area. Why don't you tell people who start political threads (like the Iraqi prisonner one currently on General Discussions) on the other areas to take it to Talk Story. Hell, if I notice it, I'll tell them to do so. That way, you can escape to one of the topical boards and not have to see the mudslinging.

But, people do have civil political discussions on this board--Ask Zoid, if you want to piss two people off, tell them they are being schrill; you will get a mutual telling off and both individuals will express their friendship to each other. Browncoats want to discuss/argue with smart folks, and who has more smarts than other Browncoats.

Jon

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Saturday, May 8, 2004 7:51 AM

HKCAVALIER

I wonder if this idea, "I come to these boards to escape the real world" is a world wide phenomenon or peculiar to the U.S. borne of our isolation and the possibility of thinking that the conflicts in the world don't necessarily affect us. Seems to me that when the whole world is threatened as it is today, it would follow that some of that conflict would "bleed" into most public forums. I'm sorry if you want to escape from even being aware of the outside world, but this is an internet bulletin board, not your drug of choice.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 3:09 AM

Aside from what the Admins of this BBS might want...

*sigh*, why is it Right Wing fascists win in America? Prolly because weak, lefty, whiners don't have the guts to stand up for thier beliefs.

When I posted my 'torture' thread the lies just came a flyin' (who knew so many Firefly fans were lieing Nazi pussies?)... and all this week-end even the Right Wing CNN crap agreed with me about the "torture". But you look at that thread and the Right Wing Nazis are still at it.

Well, we need political threads because humans are getting BLOWN UP!!!

Buy a fuggin' clue people.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 3:35 AM

GRUESOME

Quote:
Originally posted by splibertarian:
I would truly appreciate it if a "Non-Firefly Related Political Discussions" forum were added.

While my personal preference would be NO politics, I could probably live with getting them out of the general firefly discussions and into a little coccoon that would be easy to IGNORE...

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Monday, May 10, 2004 4:10 AM

RKLENSETH

Quote:
Originally posted by NTXBROWNCOAT:
I have been lurking for a while now and haven't posted yet because I didn't really have anything to say. Well that changed today when I came on to check the recent posts and saw not one but two new politically oriented posts. Come on now, don't we get enough of the politcal propaganda (yes I said propaganda) from both ends of the political spectrum everyday on the TV, radio, and every other form of media there is? I know that this won't stop the politcal messages here, but I hope that you can understand my frustration. Yes, I understand that Firefly was a show that was political in nature. I have no problem with discussions about the politics of the Firefly universe. I also think it is pertinent to discuss correlation between the Firefly verse and our own reality. I just suggest that all the purely politcal remarks that have nothing to do with any of Joss Whedon's worlds should find another forum. This is just my opinion. I don't write this to put down anyone's political affiliation. I just come here to as a welcome escape from the "real" world, and it really bothers me that some of the most active threads are the ones where people have endless arguments over who is right or wrong. As a veteran myself, I have one thing to add to the whole thing and I will never touch the political discussion again. Never assume you know the whole story. Never! That applies to everything. (Getting off my soap box) Well, sorry its taken me so long to participate. I hope to be more involved in the future.

I guess you haven't been to the Official Board yet. If you think these Browncoats are a political bunch the Official Firefly Board is much, much more. Hell, even certain cast members (cough*Adam*cough) enters the fray from time to time over there. In fact Adam mostly starts the debates.

Any Firefly forum you go to you will usually hit the political stuff no matter what. It seems to be in the Browncoat blood. I don't see a problem with it. If you don't want to read then don't. I read them to get a good laugh at some of the stupid things that are said and then say a few stupid things myself just to liven things up.

Plus, political debate can lead you to better understand other people and where they are coming from. It can lead you to see the world in a different light which is not always bad.

And the main thing about arguing and debating is to never make it personal and never take anything personally.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 4:16 AM

RKLENSETH

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Aside from what the Admins of this BBS might want...

*sigh*, why is it Right Wing fascists win in America? Prolly because weak, lefty, whiners don't have the guts to stand up for thier beliefs.

When I posted my 'torture' thread the lies just came a flyin' (who knew so many Firefly fans were lieing Nazi pussies?)... and all this week-end even the Right Wing CNN crap agreed with me about the "torture". But you look at that thread and the Right Wing Nazis are still at it.

Well, we need political threads because humans are getting BLOWN UP!!!

Buy a fuggin' clue people.

People have been being blown up for a long time or killed or whatever. It is the nature of man as written in The Prince.

If you think you are going to change that by debating it then go ahead but infortuantely I don't think much will change.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 4:31 AM

Welcome, NTXBrowncoat!

Just an FYI, I sent a message to Haken asking him to start a forum for "Political Discussions." He's a really busy guy, so he may not be able to get to it right away, but be patient. If/When he gets it done, you'll still see the thread titles on the top 10 threads list on the home page, but they'll have the forum name above them, as with all the other threads and there respective forums. That should make them easier to pick out and avoid, if you so desire.

Keep flyin'!

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 5:10 AM

HKCAVALIER

Folks, I haven't made a formal survey of the "Our President" thread but I have been reading it since it was started and, if memory serves, there are only three major loudmouths on the right and maybe two rude boys on the left causing all the trouble. Oh, and a couple violently anti-conspiracy types yelling and puking for a few posts on the second day. The rest of the maybe 15 to 20 posters have all been pretty civil and informative, with urls and well-spoken arguments. Just as in the larger political arena, we shouldn't let the extremism of a vocal few define the discourse.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 5:13 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Aside from what the Admins of this BBS might want...

*sigh*, why is it Right Wing fascists win in America? Prolly because weak, lefty, whiners don't have the guts to stand up for thier beliefs.

When I posted my 'torture' thread the lies just came a flyin' (who knew so many Firefly fans were lieing Nazi pussies?)... and all this week-end even the Right Wing CNN crap agreed with me about the "torture". But you look at that thread and the Right Wing Nazis are still at it.

Well, we need political threads because humans are getting BLOWN UP!!!

Buy a fuggin' clue people.

Ghoulman, while I respect your opinion and the right to express it, I find it in very poor taste to start the name calling. As you are entitled to your opinion, so are others, whether you agree w/ them or not, whether they are right or wrong. Name calling shows a lack of restraint and maturity, and I for one find it beneath those that post here.

Labelling someone w/ the name "Nazi" is ridiculous and insulting to say the least. You might wish to refrain from such outbursts.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Monday, May 10, 2004 5:46 AM

^^^
Calling a person a Nazi is appropreate if thier POV parallels the Nazis. A lot of that is going on these days. And the worst thing about the Nazis were all the people of Germany who walked by the Ghettos and were silent. Guess those people didn't like to talk about politics either?

Yes, it's name calling. No, that isn't proper Netiquette at all. Sorry... oh wait, I'm not sorry as silence is nothing but agreement. Do you agree that torture and invasion are OK? Well, most of the world doesn't. Welcome to the backlash.

It's like this. This is not a 'mature' debate when people lie about what's important. People getting killed is important. People being tortured is important. The USA and Britain lieing through thier teeth and invading another country illegally is important. This is a very, very, very, important time. If people are even too afraid to talk about the truth I don't know what to tell you. If people are afraid to call a coward a coward, a liar a liar, or a Right Wing Nazi just that, I can't but wonder who is worse.

So you'll have to forgive me as I am not going to nurse maid liars. I have spent the last two years watching things go from bad to worse than the Vietnam War. Oh sorry... the Vietnam Conflict *pfft* and have had the army of online Right Wing liars calling me names (some on this board) since this whole Invasion of Iraq started over a year ago.

Hmm... well, I am a rather bitter guy. *chuckle*.

So, if political debate is OK with the Admins on this BBS I can't but think the Right Wing has already won as you people complaining about politics are cowards who just want to hide.

I'd love to thank the few who stode up (like Browncoat1 ! Great posts my brotha') and didn't let the Rush Limbaughs of this BBS just post page after page of horrific and murderous lies.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 5:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Astriana:
SNIP!
If it really bothers you that much, you could send Haken an e-mail via the messaging system here, suggesting that he start a "Political Discussions" forum - much like the "Firefly Universe" for the role players, "Angelus Arcanum" for Angel fans, etc.

I can certainly see where the 'General Discussion' forum may not be the best place for political subject threads. Sure, you can avoid them but Haken may not like the feel of having that messyness somewhere he'd rather see nothing but Firefly.. er, goodness.

Troll Country might be good. Some BBSs like to have a 'Neutral Zone' forum for the wild and wolly bits of BBS life.

It's all good.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 6:09 AM

KELLAINA

It seems almost like the discussion has moved from whether political threads have a place here, to whether any type of political discussion in any thread should be allowed.

I really don't see how the latter can be accomplished (and I don't really think it should be). All of us have our own opinions about Firefly and the stories and characters and so on. These beliefs are all influenced by experiences, values, morals, religion etc. Which are the same things that help define how we think about the Firefly world. Ultimately some politics tends to creep into most discussions (whose hotter threads notwithstanding

) but I think that is only natural. To me, Firefly is a fairly political show (Alliance vs Independents etc) which is one of many reasons why I like it. It doesn't 'play it safe' (for example: condemning companioning would be safe since its inline with current public opinion).

I still stick by my opinion that if you don't like it don't read it. If enough people do that the threads will probably start to disappear as their popularity wanes since the majority of people who have responded have indicated they don't participate.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 6:18 AM