Financing Serenity 2 (or more Firefly) by reesgolf

Quote:
Originally posted by reesgolf:
Here's a silly question:

The production budget of Serenity was 39MM. If fans donated money to have a second film made, how much do you think Universal would ask for before something like this became a reality?

Would you donate? If so, how much?

I know that I would be willing to make a four figure contribution myself, but that's but a drop in the bucket...

Not a silly question , but it is one that has been asked before...And , debated a bit...

Someone go get Raycheetah or FlatTop , or someone else that wants to crunch some numbers...

We can talk about this some more...

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Sunday, June 8, 2008 6:32 PM

STAPLES

If I had money, I would donate it, but I don't. This may be a problem for a lot of people too. I would be more than willing to donate my time, but I'm not sure how much good that will do...

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Sunday, June 8, 2008 7:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Staples:
If I had money, I would donate it, but I don't. This may be a problem for a lot of people too. I would be more than willing to donate my time, but I'm not sure how much good that will do...

Truth be told , time's all anybody's got anyway...

'Cause more 'money' can be had , but no one can get any more time than the next guy...

Seems time is going to be the most important thing to have when it comes to keeping 'er in the air...

You've got the will...That's enough.

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Monday, June 9, 2008 12:44 AM

SHINYGOODGUY

It would be great to have the browncoats all over the world give what they could and be the cause to get 'er flying again.

I couldn't give much more than a couple of hundred but, time I got.

Shiny! Let's be bad guys!

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Monday, June 9, 2008 4:45 AM

ROGUESCHOLAR

I have not been with the Browncoats for very long; only since late last October, but I am often confused by how difficult it seems to be for us to raise funds in a coordinated manner.

I will skip the examples, which are many, for the moment, and focus on what seem to be not-unreasonable numbers. If the first movie generated approximately 38-39 million in theatres (which I have seen stated in a few places), then it would be reasonable to assume that it was seen by more than 1 million people worldwide. The fandom has continued to grow since then, which is good, because we are going to need lots of Browncoats, all moving in the same direction (for once).

Costs will certainly have increased greatly in the past few years, so let us use a working estimate of $60 million (probably more than we need, but advertising this one would not hurt). If there were two million of us willing to donate, then we would need to give $30 each. Some people could not/would not give that much, and some could/would give much more. Quite a few people have movie props (and tell me that it would not be cool to see the Ariel Ambulance, even just in a background shot), replicas, and other items that they would be willing to give or loan to the production, and others would be willing to donate time (the most valuable resource of all) and talent.

On the face of it, this is not at all an unreasonable thing to attempt, and I would certainly be willing to give whatever I have to the project. On a case by case basis, I feel confident that finding 2 million people to give what ammounts to the cost of a set of Firefly dvds to the cause would not be that difficult (getting it from them is a different story).

The problems are to convince those 2 million that their efforts will pay off this time (many of the Browncoats that I have met seem to want some kind of guarantee), and to mobilize them all at the same time. For example, the fan initiative to buy Mal's coat for Nathan raised several thousand dollars, but they lost the bid -- they should have been able to raise ten times that without breaking a sweat, or asking anyone for more than a dollar or two. Can't Stop the Serenity is trying to raise $150,000 this year -- that should not require any effort at all, and there should be many more cities participating, but we are not sufficiently organized and mobilized.

Every time I bring up words like "organization", I hear cries of "Alliance", but the Independents were organized -- they could not have fought effectively otherwise. If we want to create a fan-funded big screen movie (personally, I would suggest that proceeds from that film go toward funding another film, webisodes, etc.), then we will need activity and commitment far beyond anything I have yet observed or heard of. Active cells exist all over the world, and they do remarkable things, but they have difficulty working together, and they refuse to relenquish any autonomy -- many of them enjoy being little kings of little hills (sad or otherwise). We are not losing due to a lack of numbers; we are losing because we don't work together.

I do not think that creating an effective global organization would be even remotely easy -- many Browncoats would never agree to join, it would require several full-time administrative types, and an intimidating amount of paperwork (just ask Haldira over at CSTS).

On the other hand, the internet is a tool of extraordinary power -- physical location and travel time are no longer obstacles -- for organizational purposes, it is more powerful than transporter technology. I do not say that this is an impossible task; it is merely difficult. Since we are capable of impossible deeds, difficult is well within our range.

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Monday, June 9, 2008 9:31 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by farfly:
Take a look at Weekly Poll Results..

http://www.fireflyfans.net/pollresults.asp

Taking those poll results and putting final numbers to each line:

How much are you willing to contribute annually to produce Firefly or another movie?

Total Votes: 49058

Between $10 to $20: 35.64% @ $15 each = $257,554

Over $100: 30.88% @ $125 each = $1,893,638

Between $50 to $100: 14.42% @ $75 each = $515,109

Between $40 to $50: 7.40% @ $45 each = $163,363

Between $20 to $30: 7.26% @ $25 each = $88,304

Between $30 to $40: 4.42% @ $35 each = $75,549

Total = $3 million

Obviously "over $100" could mean more than $125, but it would have to be way over $125... you really do need studio money...

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, June 9, 2008 9:56 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

If Joss, or someone on his behalf wrote me a letter/ e-mail, and asked for a chunk of change to help start get Serenity off the ground again, with some assurance I'd get a piece of the set/ props which appears in the movie, I'd oblige. Maybe even $ 500 ?

Yeah, that'd do it.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, June 9, 2008 10:30 AM

Sorry to be a naysayer, but it most certainly is unreasonable to attempt to tackle this. First and foremost, there is profit sharing and other such legal "details" when it comes to people investing. But, even if people waive those rights, they have to be signed away. Which means a massive amount of paper work. Which means paying many people to keep track of it, etc.

Among many other things, there is the, "what if it fails" thing. How are people going to reclaim there donated funds? Who's going to keep track of that? Who's liable when things go wrong?

Basically, the system that must be involved to keep track of these and other necessary and basic bookkeeping tasks is enormous. And that's not counting donations of props, etc.

It's just not doable.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Monday, June 9, 2008 2:17 PM

ROGUESCHOLAR

SigmaNunki,

All of your objections are quite valid. The only point on which I disagree is whether or not it is doable. Are there enough people willing to do the necessary work? Very possibly not. That does not make the task undoable; it simply indicates that there is not sufficient interest.

Not that there is anything wrong about not being willing to put forth that kind of time and energy; most people are not, and it does not make them bad people. The reality of the situation is that very few people would be capable of or willing to handle the enormous responsibility, the vast seas of paperwork, etc. Those exceptional few who truly are willing to do it may be too few in number to get the job done. Even if they collected the money, there is no guarantee that the movie would be made... The objections that can be made are practically endless, and they are worth bringing up; they discourage people who are only vaguely interested in the project.

It may be impractical, unreasonable, foolish, etc. to want to even attempt a largely fan-funded film. It is not, however, impossible.

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Monday, June 9, 2008 7:29 PM

" I'm going to put it on the Internet first. Whether or not I can monetize it that way ... I'd like to be able to. I'd like to be able to make the money back, pay the crew, because Dr. Horrible, apart from being hilarious and fun, is also a product of the strike. I want to show that there's a way to make things yourself, but then I also want to show that there's a way to make that viable for people. So even if I don't accomplish the second part, I want to do the first part. So we'll put it on the Internet, hopefully with a sponsor of some kind. We'll work that out. "

--Joss Whedon , speaking of his spare-time project , Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog,
quoted in Sci-Fi magazine...

Here's a quote that sounds like it's from a Browncoat :

Quote:

It may be impractical, unreasonable, foolish, etc. to want to even attempt a largely fan-funded film. It is not, however, impossible.

Here's one , that's 'not so much' :

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Sorry to be a naysayer, but it most certainly is unreasonable to attempt to tackle this...

...It's just not doable.

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:53 AM

SMAUG

Well..

I think this would be fairly easy to accomplish, but will never happen.

If universal would make some type of OFFICAL announement and set up a website to take people's "donations" the word would spread like wildfire, but only if it was the real deal and offical straight from Universal.

If universal would say as soon as we get $50-$60 million in donations.. we will produce Serenity II. They could say that the minimum donation is $30. In that case 2 million browncoats would need to donate $30. But you are able to donate more if you wish. And for each $30 you donate.. you get a ticket to go see the movie in theaters. Now remember.. ticket prices for movies are ALREADY bewteen $10-$15 right now. So in some areas you would only be paying twice the "normal" movie ticket price to get the movie you WANT to see.

So for each person who donates MORE than the $30.. we need less than 2 million browncoats.

Universal could hold the charge on your credit card until all the money is collected, and won't charge it unless the full amount is raised.

Then there is no risk for Universal. The entire production is paid for.. AND they have to spend ZERO on marketing, because if it happened.. word of this would be EVERYWHERE. Not to mention the growing hoard of browncoats contintuing to spread the word. So then universal would make a profit on anyone else who sees the movie and buys the dvd (including those two million browncoats who donated the money upfront you KNOW are also going to buy a dvd). So right there at maybe $10 in profit per DVD.. Universal would get up to $20 million in pure profit JUST from the people who already finaced the movie.

There would be no profit sharing our any other types of scemes... it simply comes down to is there at least 2 million browncoats would would pay $30 to finance and see Serenity II?

I have to believe there are.. but still.. it won't happen, but we can still dream

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:51 AM

ROGUESCHOLAR

An elegant solution, in many ways, Smaug. Personally, I would still prefer television episodes or webisodes to more feature films (the same method could easily be used), but I will certainly take the feature films. The system you propose is certainly viable, and Universal already has appropriate personnel, etc. to get the job done.

I like the giving away tickets idea as well; Of course, those vouchers represent money that must be paid to the theatres when people use them, so the cost of the film probably just went up by 10-20 million. As a nice bonus, listing the donors in the credits would also be a very cool gesture.

As an alternative, the same procedure could be used, without involving a studio at all. Without studio support, getting theatres to screen the film would likely be more difficult. On the other hand, this kind of event would generate so much publicity that I suspect many theatres would show it anyway.

A major bonus would be that the film should generate quite a bit of profit; hopefully enough to fund more Serenity projects. In other words, once the initial investment is made, if the movie is sufficiently successful (and we would have to make good and certain that it was), very little, if any, further investment should be needed to keep things rolling.

Of course, we will still run into the same problems we always seem to have: communicating with everyone (and yes, there are tons of people who are always out of the loop until after stuff has happened) and getting them all moving in one direction.

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:06 AM

TINFOIL

I also think people are looking too big. I don't think a second theatre movie is possible, but maybe an animated direct to DVD using the actors as voice talent would be. Of course it wouldn't be as good, but it would be cheaper than working with huge sets (since most of Firefly got dismantled as I remember) and special effects.

Just a thought.

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 12:42 PM

@RogueScholar:

You propose something that is intractable. I pointed out that it is intractable. By definition it is impossible.

If you want to limit it to a "fan funded film" then things change. Why? Because, a "fan funded film" isn't necessarily something that would be seen in the theatre, but rather could be a film along the lines of "To Know a Jedi" (great fan flick btw). There is after all, "Done the Impossible" that has seen completion. But, that was just a documentary. Something that would actually be an attempt at FF/S would be much more difficult. Just look at the problems that "Into the Black" has had. They've been at it for some time and still aren't near completion.

@Out2TheBlack:

Sophistry! You point to people with the money and contacts and etc etc etc to get things done. Professionals in the industry doing something in there free time. How exactly does that extend to us fans again? Because, as I see it, everyone involved in FF/S is busy with other projects and the community here isn't willing to do anything to get anything done. There just isn't any staying power.

Sorry to say, but that's just fact. People here (every where actually) absolutely LOVE talking about doing stuff, but don't follow through when it comes to actually doing it. Just look at the recent failures, News Of The 'Verse and The Big Damn Zine. They didn't fail for any other reason but people stopped participating in the projects. I've attempted to start a few game projects but there was exactly zero people willing to participate in the first one (programming wise) and the ONE person that volunteered for the second one said that he'd do something, but then never did... after ~6 months.

I also take exception to your comment that I'm not a Browncoat. I may not be a delusional Browncoat going along with pie in the sky ideas, but a Browncoat I am. I also highly doubt that you'd make such comments should you know what I've been doing in my free time over the pass couple weeks.

I'll also mention that this sort of zealotry makes the non-fanatical fans like myself want to re-work our projects for use for something else that interests us (FF/S isn't the only thing out there). It's also one of the major reasons why there is only a handful of us "veterans" around any more. There just too much of this "If you were a real Browncoat then you'd do/say/etc" bullshit. But, to flip that on you, what projects are you contributing to? What are you doing for the community? What make you such a great Browncoat that you're able to question me?

@SMAUG:

The free ticket idea doesn't make any sense. That would be an additional expense and as such wouldn't exactly be giving money to the project. In fact, there would be additional problems in buying that ticket for the person. Are they limiting it to a particular theatre? Since the Browncoat community is international and different theatre chains aren't going to exist every where, how's that going to work? How is the ticket going to make its way to the people who donated in the first place? etc etc etc

All of this and more has an associated cost to keep track of. Which would be a cost for Universal which would have an associated risk. It's hard not to call a long shot a risk when it has a cost no matter what. Not to mention that what you've said doesn't address many of the issues that I brought up previously.

I know it isn't what people here want to do, but looking at the cons rather than the pros of any idea is what is needed when coming up with such large scale plans. Such things need to be solid, and not looking at the problems with any given plan and fixing those problems turns it into a Swiss cheese of an idea.

If anyone really wants to do something that would be of any actual benefit, donate to "Into the Black" and if you're an actor, for the love of god, try to replace the people they already got; the Captain is the only one that has any talent. They also need help with effects, etc.

There's also a Firefly Mod for EV Nova that's been in production for some time and is nearing completion of part 1. They need help in a number of areas. So, if you actually want to do something, post on there forums:

http://s4.invisionfree.com/GunRunner

Me I got my own stuff going on. And at some point in the future, it'll be up to community participation whether I continue with it or not. I'm only one guy after all and there are things to do.

@All:

Your move.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:41 PM

WoW !

This is interesting...From the Chronicles of SigmaNunki , found here :
http://www.fireflyfans.net/showblog.asp?b=3409

" Everybody's so angry

Or at least condescending, or mean or ... to eachother. (yes the title is a play on a thread title from a little while back)

Someone doesn't like the movie and points out some flaws. Burn the heretic!!! Someone doesn't see your point of view on something. Flame them, they just must be stupid!

And of course none of this is could be your fault. It can't be that someone has a valid point that you disagree with. It couldn't be that you just didn't explain it properly. Or it couldn't be that they just misunderstood something and it certainly isn't your responsibility to make sure people are actually getting what you mean or it couldn't be that you didn't understand them, because you're never wrong, right?

No it can't be you. No, not at all.

(And no, I'm not saying I'm completely innocent here.)

No, I'm not necessarily talking about whoever is reading this... if anyone reads this.

To be clear, what I've seen over the past months is people starting to get more and more aggressive on the FF/Serenity part of the forums. In fact, it's getting to the point where it is starting to approach what goes on in the RWD threads. Or at least what went on in RWD the last time I participated.

I used to take a break from RWD by going to the other forums and calmly discuss FF with other people discussing FF. Sure, there were disagreements. But, nothing like what is going on now.

Another thing I'm seeing (and this is far more telling of the situation), is the "veteran" posters are starting to post, less and less and less. In fact, it has become the exception that I see a familiar handle on the threads that I click on. This mass exodus cannot be coincidence.

So, here's what I'm going to do (actually I've already been doing it) and I hope others will do so as well.

I'm just not going to do it anymore. I'm not going to discuss with people that use ridiculous hyperbole, condescending comments, etc.

The only thing that they'll get from me after they do such a thing, is telling them that I'm not going to discuss with them until they can "keep a civil tongue in there head." And that's it for discussing with them in that thread.

Because, quite frankly, I'm getting sick of fighting; it drains me. And I got enough crap to deal with in RL, never mind what I am now having to start to put up with in these forums.

So, I'm just not going to do it anymore. I'm not going to speak with those that try to beat people down (even if not intended).

I'm only going to talk to happy, nice people. The people that have supported me and countless others through tough times. The people that carry you when you can't crawl anymore (or at least keep you company when you are crawling or waiting for someone to carry you if they ain't strong enough to carry you )

The real Browncoats.

Because, if we can't get along with eachother, we've already lost. "

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

(Where I come from , we've got verbiage to describe your ilk , Mr. Nunki...

'Gorramned Hypocrites' , or maybe , in your particular case , it's due to sickness , then , you'd be a 'narcissistic sociopath'.
One of the principal characteristics of your kind is that you talk ' @ ' folk , as you did in your Browncoat-Brother Love-Letter to Smaug , RogueScholar , and myself . Now , would you please leave the thread to people with constructive and creative ideas to exchange ? And don't let the airlock door slam on you when you're on the way out...)
-' Out2theBlack '

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 5:34 PM

Here's another 'classic' from the SigmaMunki Chronicles :

http://www.fireflyfans.net/showblog.asp?b=6883

Farewell

" Like many before me, I've gotten sick of the status quo around here. It's not like this just popped up as this feeling started creeping up slowly somewhat before the movie was released (i.e. when the "fanboys" started showing up). Now, it's just gotten to the point where I really feel that "fanboys" and/or there basic mentality (if even diluted) have become too prevalent for me to stay around. Well, that among many other things.

So, my posting here will be sporadic at best for the foreseeable future. Perhaps if the "fanboys" leave... don't know.

At any rate, farewell and best of luck. "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey , SickyMunki , didn't you say you was GETTING OFF our boat ? 'Cause much to your horror , the "fanboys" just keep showing up...

REAVERS!!! SCARY MONSTERS...

Or , did you just mean that you were GETTING OFF running down other folk ?

That 'authority figure /Messiah' complex of yours is waaay old...

While you're getting down off that high-horse of yours , might wanna take off the hat , too...It makes you look like an idiot...Oh , wait , you ARE an idiot ?

Never mind...Forget what I said about the hat...

Time to WAKE UP , mei-mei...

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 9:44 PM

I have no idea if it would help get a sequel made nor how feasible it all would be but here is my 1 cent. I have only been around this forum a few days and am fairly new to Firefly/Serenity obsession - a fan from the tv days, but growing more obsessed all the time. I need to research and read prior threads on this topic, but hopefully at least a few of my comments below are new. If anyone could link to other threads on this topic that would be shiny. Maybe someday my thoughts will be worth 2 cents.

I like the monetary pre-support concept. I have been thinking the same thing for a few weeks now. I think it would work best if the studio administered it. I think that a system that allowed different levels of participation and a fail safe option would be the most enticing and beneficial.

My idea is to prepay for certain purchases and fringe benefits. I would say make it somewhat al-a-cart, allowing people to do what appeals to them. I would make A1) mandatory if possible.

A1) $25 pre-order of the DVD. This could be administered by a third party like Amazon for the studio or the studio could do it themselves. Hopefully there would not be an industry practice or legal obligation that would preclude this. This would be for a 2 DVD edition as my next idea will require an extra disc to keep video compression to a minimum (and therefore video quality up) and still have room for some extras. This would be a good option for mild supporters or Browncoats a little short on coin. I like the DVD pre-order idea over the pre-paid movie ticket idea because it does not take the straight to DVD option off the table. Should net them perhaps $18 per person.

A2) $35 get your name in the credits of the DVD (perhaps a special 2-disc edition). Perhaps have levels in the credits, such as $1,000 for Platinum level; $500 for Gold; $200 for Silver; and $35 for Copper (or some more creative 'verse-centric category name for each level, i.e. Captain/ 1st Mate/ Pilot / Mercenary or Firefly/ Mule/ ATV/ Hiking Boots). This should only cost them a $1-$2 per person, and they get the rest.

A3) Pre-pay for an item that can only be gotten by participating in this program - a "supporter only" item. Maybe a $40-$50 item. This should net them about a third to half the price.

A4) Figure out what props they should have available after shooting that they would normally be inclined to dispose of and auction them off before they make the movie. This could be a tricky proposition, but who knows. They should definitely auction off as much as possible afterwards if they are not sure if it will be a trilogy.

A5) Allow people to donate money and receive a percent of the proceeds - or perhaps even transfer the rights to a new company in which the studio is majority owner and allow folks to buy stock in the company and receive potential risk adjusted reward that way.

A6) Allow people to purchase the rights to be an extra or play a bit part. The purchaser pays all travel and other associated expenses.

A7+) Other folks can add some options or re-raise ones that have been suggested before, in other threads. I'll need to try and find some of the old discussions now that I've found this forum.

The money should be held in trust (or whatever) and should earn interest (if that would not pose a record keeping or tax admin nightmare). People should be allowed to receive a full refund or to continue to support the effort after two years, and then again each year after that until the sequel gets made or the studio and/or Joss says "it ain't never gonna happen". Each person should be given several options as to what happens to the money if the sequel does not get made.

B1) Returned with interest.
B2) Donated to charity (Equality Now?) along with their interest.
B3) Apply the funds plus interest toward Firefly/Serenity merchandise - perhaps including a special "supporter only" item.

People should perhaps be allowed to choose which forms and/or formats they support and if the project goes forward in another manner they get a refund. The options I foresee would be:
C1) Live-action film
C2) Live-action series
C3) Animated film
C4) Animated series

I would imagine that this project would have to raise at least $5 million, perhaps $10 million to really get the studio's attention - which seems like it would be tough. However, with enough (carrot enriched) Fruity Oaty Bars and time maybe just maybe this would have an impact. The enticement would have to be robust on both sides. The studio would have to give folks compelling reasons to pre-support the sequel and the public would have to respond with enough monetary support to take a fair chunk of the risk out of the project for the studio. I think the studio may be a bit scared and befuddled trying to figure out just how many people actually support Firefly and Serenity. With them being persuaded once before to go forward with a movie due to apparent widespread support and then way under performing, likely due to the support of an extremely dedicated (but relatively) few folks at the time. I mean plenty of Browncoats saw the movie a bunch of times and it still flopped. Has real support for the 'Verse continued to grow? Probably (I got a guy to buy the series just this past weekend after having him over and getting him to watch most of disc 1). Have the ranks of the loving and faithful grown enough to make a sequel a smashing success? Only time will tell - maybe. But - Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me, right? This pre-support concept would give the studio a definite gage of support and interest. One person sending them ten $10 bills means a lot more and is a much better gage than someone sending them ten "please make a movie" postcards. The fact that Browncoats are buying many copies of the movie and series probably scares and confuses them too. Yes, we are making the prior products profitable (presumably more profitable at this point), but if support is not as broad as they believe and/or support dwindles by the time the next installment is released they could be back in the red, wondering if and when they will break even or make money.

The other thing is that if the studio can keep raking in money from the old products, what is their incentive to take on the risk of a new project? At some point, and perhaps we are beyond that point already, certain types of support may actually do us more harm than good. By creating a large pool of money that they can only get if they make a new product for us, we may have a greater potential to create a win/win situation.

Another idea. What if the proceeds from the charity screenings and perhaps other fund raising efforts were applied to the pre-support project with the agreement that if the movie gets made then the first X amount of profit (the amount that would have otherwise gone to charity, plus interest) would go to charity, and if the next installment does not happen, then those funds are distributed to the charity(-ies)?

If the community can ever come up with what seems like a reasonable and robust plan, it needs to make its way to Joss and/or the studio execs.

I know I'm new (and perhaps naive) with enthusiasm, but please don't open the outer airlock after we leave the atmosphere.

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Friday, June 13, 2008 6:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Vexem:
I have no idea if it would help get a sequel made nor how feasible it all would be but here is my 1 cent. I have only been around this forum a few days and am fairly new to Firefly/Serenity obsession - a fan from the tv days, but growing more obsessed all the time.

...If the community can ever come up with what seems like a reasonable and robust plan, it needs to make its way to Joss and/or the studio execs.

I know I'm new (and perhaps naive) with enthusiasm, but please don't open the outer airlock after we leave the atmosphere.

I'd give 50 Platinum for your 1 cent ideas...

Yours is one of the most thoughtful posts I've ever seen on this subject...

We love the 'new' folk...Y'all have such interestin' stories...

WELCOME ABOARD !

I've gotta run just now...But we'll talk later !

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Friday, June 13, 2008 11:11 AM

NETSOLO

Wow- a fan financed studio movie!

While the logistics (especially knowing how rough the climate is out here right now - to a point where studios are actually cutting their annual feature film production schedules in half) are quite an uphill climb, it's a crazy enough idea that it might work. I'd imagine to even pique the studio's interest, you would need at least 50% of the budget to dangle in front of them as an independent financer.

But I think the bigger effort might not be raising funds, I think it's something that (in my two minutes of experience) I've noticed that the Browncoats are pretty good at doing: proving to those suits behind the desks over off Lankershim Blvd. that another Serenity sequel would be profitable.

I think people being willing to donate production money to a studio personifies that - but if there's some way to prove to them that if they pony up even another $30 mil, they'll be able to recoop their investment plus some.

I had to look it up but the first film grossed $25,335,935 with a budget estimate of $39 mil, which makes it a tough sell to the number crunchers that make the decisions at the studios. There has to be some way of showing them that investing in another flick would be well worth their time (and cash)...

Unless...

You guys are thinking about helping Joss independently financing the film OUTSIDE of the studio system.

Oooh... now that's so crazy, it might actually work. Even if the fans couldn't get together funds for a feature film - direct to DVD or webisodes are always an option (and a fraction of the production cost)... hmmm...

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Friday, June 13, 2008 11:33 AM

NORCALBROWNCOAT

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Friday, June 13, 2008 11:34 AM

NORCALBROWNCOAT

wow i think alot of people want Firefly and serenity back, but i would donate an amount of each paycheck of mine to get the show/movie going again

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Friday, June 13, 2008 12:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NetSolo:

Unless...

You guys are thinking about helping Joss independently financing the film OUTSIDE of the studio system.

Yer durn tootin' , that's what I've been thinkin' for more than a little while now...

Folk should oughta remember , the Writer's Strike was largely over the issues of Internet Distribution of content...Folk oughta get paid for their work , regardless of the modalities involved...

Here's the deal : The F-Network still owns the Television production rights on 'Firefly' for a year or two...But , then what ? Will they attempt to negotiate an option to extend , and get us more Firefly due to Joss' success with Dollhouse ?

Joss won't take another chance at letting go the TV rights without some BIG guarantees...He'd make them commit to at least A SEASON , probably with a lot of other caveats and addendums...Like , the rights and creative control would remain in his hands , should the F-Network not renew after that first relight...

' Versal ? Who knows what they're thinking ? There wasn't a big 'fanboy factor' with the Serenity film , although there were plenty of folk like myself , who saw the film in the theaters Numerous Times before losing count , our sheer numbers just weren't enough to 'hold the line'...More on this , later...

My favorite scenario involves a big cable net like HBO or Showtime doing a mini-series (and DVD boxset) ala The Tudors or The Sopranos , only it's 'our gang' , on our beloved ship...

Then , there's my 'corporate angel' scenario , which involves Jeff Bezos (Amazon) , Richard Branson (Virgin Galactic) , or Paul Allen (Microsoft)...

They all have their own space programs...We could have a DVD boxset , and one of the special features would be a promo for their respective compan(y)ies...

Seems if anyone could see the 'long tail' on our spaceship , it would be Mr. Bezos...

He's already collected A LOT of Shiny Coin from the Browncoats...

Quote:

Oooh... now that's so crazy, it might actually work. Even if the fans couldn't get together funds for a feature film - direct to DVD or webisodes are always an option (and a fraction of the production cost)... hmmm...

Now , tell me what you REALLY think !

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Friday, June 13, 2008 12:16 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Three part Mini series. Three over a two or three year span. It sounds kinda goonie but I kinda like getting a taste with the comics every so often. Sure keeps a lot of pressure off of the creative minds/talents giving us great stories and it soothes the itch for fans and the like.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tequila. Straight. There's a real polite drink. You keep drinking until you finally take one more and it just won't go down. Then you know you've reached your limit.
-Lee Marvin

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Friday, June 13, 2008 12:48 PM

{{NEVER MIND Found it on the home page - I could not figure out how to participate in the poll. Was it only active for a finite period?}}

How does one start a poll, it might be interesting to run a new one with a revised scenario and more support levels defined. With 30% at $100+ that leaves a lot of ambiguity. I like the person that started this thread would consider a $1,000+ "donation".

If there was a chance to earn a return on the contributions and/or receive special consideration such as a prestigious spot in the credits, it might not be that hard to attract some big contributions. Each 200 $5,000 contribs would be $1 million. But the bread and butter would likely still be in the masses - if we could get 100,000 (that's twice as many as took the poll) $100 contribs (1-2 tanks of gas), that would be $10 million.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few Browncoats that could make 6 or even 7 digit contribs toward the project.

It does not seem like voting in the weekly poll is limited to one vote per account. How much vote stuffing could be occurring? How many registered users are on this forum? Did 49,000 people actually vote in the last week?

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Friday, June 13, 2008 4:12 PM

ANONYMOUS1

out2theblack wrote:
Monday, June 09, 2008 19:29

Quote:
--Joss Whedon , speaking of his spare-time project , Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog,

Self-financed. Experiment. Coming this summer to an internet near you. Nathan Fillion as Captain Hammer.

Official Site: http://drhorrible.com

Official Fan Site: http://doctorhorrible.net

Remember everyone. Joss is boss. Joss knows how to reach us.

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Friday, June 13, 2008 4:31 PM

STOWEAWAY

Speaking of Webisodes, I think if anyone wants to get Mr. Whedon onboard, this would be the approach to take.
I would imagine a studio-less production formula (read: no suits) is fresh in his mind. If Dr. Horrible is widely successful and profitable, he may want to do more.
Why not have a pre-purchase of Firefly webisodes that can provide him with his production budget (smaller perhaps than the original show). Then we don't have to ask some big corporate studio to take a gamble on us Browncoats. We can just ask Mr. Whedon himself and then put our money where our collective mouths are.

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Friday, June 13, 2008 5:40 PM

ANONYMOUS1

Quote:
Originally posted by Stoweaway:
If Dr. Horrible is widely successful and profitable, he may want to do more.

And studios may want to do more with him. One day a studio will realize there is enough money to be made in the 'verse to take the risk again. Either that or Joss and the actors are going to do it themselves and ask a studio to stamp there name on it.

The more people see of our Big Darn Heroes, the more they want to see of our Big Darn Heroes...which leads them back to Firefly/Serenity. And that include Joss and Tim Minear too!

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Friday, June 13, 2008 6:37 PM

@Out2TheBlack:

Ad Hominem is the name of logical fallacy that you used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

How about you address the substance of what I said instead of being a hypocrite. And no, I'm not performing an Ad Hominem attack myself, I'm just pointing out what you've done.

EDIT: You might want to check the dates on those posts. You also might want to check that whole, reading INTO things instead of actually reading them. You're doing the former NOT the latter.

And I didn't say I was " GETTING OFF our boat". If you would have read what I wrote, you would know that I said that shit like this makes me feel like it. There is a difference you know. You also missed this quote from me (that you actually quoted yourself, how's that for literacy):

"So, my posting here will be sporadic at best for the foreseeable future"

"""
Now , would you please leave the thread to people with constructive and creative ideas to exchange ?
"""

What? You mean like posting a list of projects that could use some help from people instead of just talking and doing nothing? Like I did. You mean pointing out the flaws with ideas so that they can be fixed? Or if they can't, prevent people from wasting time on an idea that won't work? Like I did.

I'll also add that people here seem to be missing important "hidden" costs of doing something like this. Sure, Serenity cost ~37 mil to make. But, what about advertising? What about distribution? etc etc etc. Even if something like this was to be done, it would require a SIGNIFICANT up front investment from the studio(s) in question. And given the... low profits from the last movie, that's unlikely to happen (and that's being polite).

Why can't people drop this (it's been brought up countless times) and focus on things that would actually benefit and help this community. Because, to be honest, this community is getting its ass kicked by others.

A good example of this is the Wing Commander community. The last official game came out in 1998 (with the exception of the tiny xbox arcade mini game in 2007) and they're still going strong. In fact, several fan made games have been released in that time with a new one just a couple months ago (continually updated). There news site publishes new stuff on a daily basis yet News Of The 'Verse didn't last a year. And what Firefly/Serenity games?

Sorry, but without a solid dose of reality, this community is doomed to be pie in the sky until it rots. Which is actually happening as we speak. In fact, your reaction to my criticism is indicative of this. God forbid that someone would have a "descenting" point of view, eh? Can't have anyone pointing out that an idea is inherently flawed. That would interrupt people talking. Which is actually the point. People talk and talk and talk, and effectively zero people actually do anything. And those exceedingly rare people who actually do something don't have any support or help.

Gee I wonder why nothing gets done. And people, though they come into the community regularly, leave. In fact, they're leaving at a rate that out paces people coming in. So, this whole, look how many there are of us because people come in all the time is pretty much nonsense.

Something needs to happen, and happen soon. As above, I call it a dose of reality. But, with people like you, and there are many of you around, it's unlikely this will happen. You're far too resistant to such things. Even violently so (as you're last two replies to me show).

So, go ahead. Talk. Convince yourselves that this is a healthy community. That nothing needs to change and no-one needs to do anything. And then, in a few years, when every thing is exactly the same as it is now, remember what I said. That for things to improve, people need to do something. And then talk about it.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Friday, June 13, 2008 7:53 PM

STOWEAWAY

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
People talk and talk and talk, and effectively zero people actually do anything. And those exceedingly rare people who actually do something don't have any support or help. Gee I wonder why nothing gets done.

Actually, I work very hard here in my hometown with huge support from other local Browncoats (about 100) to help promote Firefly/Serenity and related activities. I think we do a pretty good job of keeping it alive. And I'm pretty sure there are communities like mine all over the world.
I think raising over $150,000 for charity is nothing to sneeze at. That takes quite a monumental effort from a good number of people -- active people.

Quote:
And people, though they come into the community regularly, leave.

I think what will definitely make them leave is negativity and personal attacks. It's bad for morale. And morale is just as important as action.
Nathan Fillion asks folks who visit his MySpace to drop by and leave a little positivity. I think there's a lot to that statement.
So I encourage everyone to continue brainstorming. Nothing bad can come from a good idea.

** If anyone cares to snipe or flame me for that one, I respectfully request you use PM so nobody else here has to read it and I can ignore it in private. Thanks! **

-------------------------------------------------
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Friday, June 13, 2008 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Stoweaway:

Actually, I work very hard here in my hometown with huge support from other local Browncoats (about 100) to help promote Firefly/Serenity and related activities. I think we do a pretty good job of keeping it alive. And I'm pretty sure there are communities like mine all over the world.
I think raising over $150,000 for charity is nothing to sneeze at. That takes quite a monumental effort from a good number of people -- active people.

Promoting what there already is and holding events to celebrate that, isn't creating new things. Which is what I was talking about. I thought that my suggested projects and what I've said made that clear.

You see, what you're doing possibly gets new people involved. That is fine except that when that is all that is done, it does not promote a healthy community. A healthy community might do that, but does many other things as well.

Though there are certainly people in this world that can watch the series/movie over and over and over... That doesn't describe the typical person. Most will leave after they get bored with the little content that exists. Which in this ADD world we live in isn't long.

Also, though raising money for charity is all well and good, it still only fits in the "awareness" category. See above.

Quote:
Originally posted by Stoweaway:

Quote:
And people, though they come into the community regularly, leave.

I think what will definitely make them leave is negativity and personal attacks. It's bad for morale. And morale is just as important as action.
Nathan Fillion asks folks who visit his MySpace to drop by and leave a little positivity. I think there's a lot to that statement.
So I encourage everyone to continue brainstorming. Nothing bad can come from a good idea.

** If anyone cares to snipe or flame me for that one, I respectfully request you use PM so nobody else here has to read it and I can ignore it in private. Thanks! **

And moral is moot without action. Therein lies the problem, eh. You can be as positive as you want, have as high moral as you want, but without action, still nothing gets done.

Brainstorming is definitely good. Except when the exact same ideas come up again and again and... And when people here get told that, they continue with flawed ideas wasting time and energy. And when they get told that, they attack because someone isn't a "real" browncoat.

Yes, it isn't fun being told that "your" idea isn't good/is flawed/etc. But, that's the nature of life. Not every idea is a good one. And not every idea is tractable. Some things are just plain beyond reach and people need to realise that. After all, just look at how much work Joss, et al had to put in to get the movie made. And there we were supporting those efforts. And even then, it barely got made. We were very very lucky. And now we have zero people working on it "on the inside." Doing that Math... doesn't exactly seem likely (to be polite) that we'll get another one.

To be explicit, the thing about brainstorming: different ideas come up. Here all we have is people continuing to try to go with an idea that not only has been show to be inherently flawed in this very thread, but every time its come up in the past. Go ahead, look through the archives, it's all there. Variations on the same idea is not brainstorming.

This community needs to get active. It needs to start creating new content. Whether that's continuing with stories in the 'Verse, expanding it or filling in holes, it needs to be done. It also needs to be done in various ways. From games, to books, to whatever. But, it's also obvious that no-one is going to do it for us. WE need to do it. WE need to create our own content. WE need to support these projects not only with just saying "go for it", but by actually helping! If this is done then we won't have to "recruit", it'll draw people in. But, without it, there's just no staying power. The community will shrivel and die. Which is actually happening now.

Just look at the low activity here. When the continuing down swing started, people thought it was just the natural ebb and flow. But, it's been going on for some time now. To say that least, it's been a hell of an ebb and no flow in sight. Why? Because, nothing is drawing people in.

I do commend your efforts, but given the state of the community and the stage its in, those efforts seem to be in an area that isn't needed. Basically, instead of working on awareness, people in this community need to start producing.

At any rate, I'm sure that Out2TheBlack will bring a significant chunk of ire due to my last couple posts as (s)he did his/her last two (replies to me). Which is rather sad given that the content really needs to be listened to for the benefit of the community. Cut off the nose to spite the face I guess. God forbid that someone would criticise the community in any way shape or form based on an unbiased look at it.

Don't expect another reply from me though. Flame away. Perhaps I'll poke my head in again in a couple months (as I've done periodically which is what I said I would do contrary to Out2TheBlack "interpretation" of my blog post) to see if things have changed. I'm not exactly hopeful though, as things have been getting less and less active here (any way you look at it) over the years. Hell, even Haken's pretty much jumped ship over to:

http://www.shinyuniverse.net

Kinda tells you something.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 2:25 PM

STOWEAWAY

I must be living in a different Browncoat community than you, Sigma.
Around here, there are two Browncoats who have just finished a new Firefly board game prototype. They are working now on licensing and wide release.
Another member is working on permanent Firefly LARP grounds that will be available for regular use.
I just don't see the inactivity that you speak of.
Nobody here watches their episodes over and over and pines away for a new series. We create new stories and songs. We constantly look for new ways to promote and celebrate our 'verse. Granted none of us has written an online game -- we just don't have that in our talent pool.
You spoke of writing new stories. Personally I don't look forward to a continuation of Serenifly without the input of Mr. Whedon. That's not a product that interests me. But I have the utmost respect for fanfic writers who help keep the 'verse alive. And I'm looking forward to my first look at Mosquito at our charity screening next week.
I guess I'm just confused about your view of the Browncoat community. I see enthusiasm, lively conversation, creative ideas (though sometimes repeated), and action. Check around with the other Browncoats in your local community. I'm sure you'll find it there too.
I don't think you'll ever be able to convince me that we're not doing enough. I'm actually quite proud of how much we do and what a fine community we've become. Every fandom naturally has some attrition. But once the "sort-ofs" fall away, the dedicated remain.
I'm sticking around for a while. And I'm happy to hear great ideas (over and over again if necessary).

---------------------------------------------
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Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:18 PM

I think a healthy community is one that works towards a good and common goal, and has good morale and morals. I believe that everyone is different, with different strengths and weaknesses. In a well functioning organization there is a free flow of ideas and information and people utilize their strengths to further the goals of the community. I wouldn't want Kaylee up on the hillside with the sniper's rifle nor Jayne fixing the engine, I wouldn't want Mal doing the doctoring nor Simon piloting. Some people are great idea people, some are great doers, some folks are great motivators and/or cheerleaders. Some folks have a blend of these attributes. People can contribute ideas, time, money, contacts, skills, etc. - everyone has a role that they can play and a special way that they can help further our goals. Everyone also has different commitments and obligations in their lives which impact how capable and/or willing they are to lend their talents to the cause.

I'm sure that many folks thought that the Wright Brothers were idiots for trying to make a flying machine. People had been thinking about and trying to fly for perhaps thousands of years prior. People had come up with many ideas and tried many things in pursuit of the ability to travel through the air. And then one day folks with a passion for that goal once again undertook the silly notion of flying. Why did they succeed? Probably because they dared to dream, dared to attempt the "impossible", they probably had some unique ideas, they probably were lucky in making their attempts when the time was finally right (availability of new materials, construction methods, other knowledge, etc.). My point here is of course that I doubt that every possible idea for financing a new series or movie has been thought of and vetted and that maybe all we need is for the right idea to be floating around when the right person(s) see it and create a watershed moment.

Not everyone is going to have the exact same goals in mind. I am very interested in exploring fanfic and all those kinds of things that are out there now. I might be interested in finding a way to support those endeavors in the future. But for me, the main goal is to see more Firefly or Serenity with the real writers and actors. I do not want animated stories, I don't want to be relegated to reading comic books or fanfic (no matter how good) - I want live action video entertainment starring the people that I have come to admire and appreciate deeply - the original cast. Just because I would prefer to expend most of my resources (mental, physical, chronological, and financial) toward the "real deal" doesn't mean that I think less of anyone that thinks that path is too difficult and unlikely to be worthy or that has a greater passion for other things like podcasts, fanfic, board games, video games, and whatnot. Nor does that mean that I would not support those that have a different vision. There are many ways to improve, expand, and feed this community. Being fairly new, I'm not sure how well things are going, don't know how they compare to years past or what the root causes of malcontent are. I know my interests and available time are subject to a great deal of change and ebb and flow. I'm sure many of the folks that had been rabid fans before have burnt out and gone on to other things, with luck just for a while.

One of the reasons that I think it would be cool to come of with a win/win concept such as I tried to outline above, is that it would not require a leap of faith nor deprive folks of their money should the plan not work out. My hopes would be that if folks get something in return and/or can get there investment back after a reasonable amount of time if things don't pan out the more people would support the idea. Could it work, yes. Will it work, I have no idea (being new here, not being omniscient, and often being too much of a dreamer, and perhaps prone bits of OCD, ADD, and many other human frailties). I'm not a lawyer or a business guru, so I don't know if a company or partnership could be set up for the sole purpose of supporting an expansion of the Firefly 'Verse, with minimal expense and risk to all the supporters. But the more I think about it the more I think that some mechanism that would allow folks to invest in the project in a way that they can add funds over time, withdraw support either after a certain point or by selling their interest, get their money back at such point that Joss says "sorry ain't gonna happen", and make a profit if the project does happen and is profitable. If by some chance/perhaps miracle us folks can come up with um-teen million and finance a significant chunk of Serenity 2 or provide significant funding for a new series (either of which would hopefully then become self sustaining after that), why should we not profit by it - especially since most would likely just pump that money back into the franchise.

When people are criticized for well meaning, constructive, civil posts, it is no wonder that there are so many lurkers on forums and folks that leave. When this happens we lose contributions from valuable but timid, shy, non-confrontational, and/or frustrated members of our community. Likely some of these lost ideas have the potential to be the revolutionary ones that could most further our goals. I've only been on a few forums in my life, but one observation is that a very small percentage of people post, the vast majority lurk - not sure if that is the case amongst the Firefly forums.

To some extent it is too bad that there are so many Firefly/Serenity forums. It makes the sharing of ideas far less efficient and would seem to make the acting on ideas harder too since you draw from smaller pools of people. For me to learn what has been discussed before on the topic of financing more FF/S I would have to first determine all of Firefly forums that have ever existed, then query them or an archive of them if they have closed (if they even have a query feature - I haven't found one here yet), collate the information, and then figure out what it all means in relation to my ideas or interests. I think it would be extraordinary if the forums out there could be combined into one - but I doubt that is feasible (technically or politically). It seems a shame that the same conversations have to take place in many different locations such that a full sharing and melding of ideas and a more coordinated effort toward the common goals cannot occur.

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Sunday, June 15, 2008 11:57 PM

KNIGHTREYEDER

My my don't we have our differences.

I'd donate, not thousands, but hundreds. No, I could not donate time as I just don't have it to give.

Remember (and I apologize if someone suggested this and I missed it in my skimming, this thread is becoming VERY long) the Enterprise incident when the fans raised enough to do another season and it still fell through. These things need the strings pulled from above, those in the right places have to be on board first, just seems to be the way it works. Then the cast have to be available as well. The whole thing needs the cosmos to be aligned in ways most cannot imagine.

I think all the sites would need to be coordinated in some way, and this would be a good idea even if it didn't involve said potential BDMII. It's a place to start. Get some organized potential then consider what to do with it.

I'd still donate $.

_________________________________________________
VOTE FOR OUR FAVORITE SHIP!!
http://blogs.amctv.com/scifi-scanner/2008/05/coolest-starship-tourname
nt.php

Mal's expression in the scrapyard when he first see's Serenity says it all.

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Monday, June 16, 2008 3:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous1:

out2theblack wrote:
Monday, June 09, 2008 19:29
Quote:
--Joss Whedon , speaking of his spare-time project , Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog,

Remember everyone. Joss is boss. Joss knows how to reach us...

Well , we'd be happy to hear from him...He should find a way to bop in here and give us a Ni Howdy...This is one of the most-fun places in all of cyberspace...Certain events of late , notwithstanding...

Nobody minds Joss being the Boss...But he knows how much he needs us , just the same as we need more Firefly love...

We'll support his endeavors , Dollhouse in particular , and Dr. Horrible if it turns out to be good fun...

Even if Dr. Horrible isn't loads of fun , I'd support it if it would bring more Firefly...

Thanks to all for their constructive comments in this thread , and for their innovative ideas about how to get more Firefly/Serenity...

We'll talk some more...Seen more good stuff on this subject in this thread than in any that have gone before !

Remember , it's ATTITUDE that determines our ALTITUDE...LOVE keeps her in the air !

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Monday, June 16, 2008 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Vexem:
I think a healthy community is one that works towards a good and common goal, and has good morale and morals. I believe that everyone is different, with different strengths and weaknesses. In a well functioning organization there is a free flow of ideas and information and people utilize their strengths to further the goals of the community. I wouldn't want Kaylee up on the hillside with the sniper's rifle nor Jayne fixing the engine, I wouldn't want Mal doing the doctoring nor Simon piloting. Some people are great idea people, some are great doers, some folks are great motivators and/or cheerleaders. Some folks have a blend of these attributes. People can contribute ideas, time, money, contacts, skills, etc. - everyone has a role that they can play and a special way that they can help further our goals. Everyone also has different commitments and obligations in their lives which impact how capable and/or willing they are to lend their talents to the cause.

I'm sure that many folks thought that the Wright Brothers were idiots for trying to make a flying machine. People had been thinking about and trying to fly for perhaps thousands of years prior. People had come up with many ideas and tried many things in pursuit of the ability to travel through the air. And then one day folks with a passion for that goal once again undertook the silly notion of flying. Why did they succeed? Probably because they dared to dream, dared to attempt the "impossible", they probably had some unique ideas, they probably were lucky in making their attempts when the time was finally right (availability of new materials, construction methods, other knowledge, etc.). My point here is of course that I doubt that every possible idea for financing a new series or movie has been thought of and vetted and that maybe all we need is for the right idea to be floating around when the right person(s) see it and create a watershed moment.

Very good , well-said !

On the same note , regarding sayers of 'nay' , history is replete with examples of folk who shot their mouths off in deciding something to be 'impossible' in some respect , having been made foolish in short order...

Here's one :

" Lee DeForest has said in many newspapers and over his signature that it would be possible to transmit the human voice across the Atlantic before many years . Based on these absurd statements , the misguided public...has been persuaded to purchase stock in his company..."

--a U.S. District Attorney , prosecuting inventor DeForest for selling stock "fraudulently" through the mail for his Radio Telephone Company , 1913...

Here's another :

" The concept is interesting and well-formed , but in order to earn better than a ' C ' , the idea must be feasible ..."

--Mid-1960's , a Yale University professor , in response to a paper proposing reliable overnight delivery service...The paper's author , Fred Smith , went on to found the Federal Express corporation...

FedEx has been 'in the air' a long while now...

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Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:41 PM