Enough of the politcal crap!! by NTXBROWNCOAT

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Enough of the politcal crap!!

POSTED BY: NTXBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 19:58
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 12608
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Monday, May 10, 2004 6:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
^^^
Calling a person a Nazi is appropreate if thier POV parallels the Nazis. Yes, it's name calling. No, that isn't proper Netiquette at all. Sorry... oh wait, I'm not sorry as silence is nothing but agreement.

Is there any other way to make your argument than by calling people coward and Nazi? I'm not arguing against your opinion, I'm just saying that it kinda demeans your position to resort to name calling. The names are what people tend to see and respond to, not the opinion. Isn't the opinion more important?

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Monday, May 10, 2004 6:35 AM

GHOULMAN

^^^ there are lots of people I discuss things with and never call them names. There are trolls and liars who don't deserve that consideration.

As for calling the 'no politics' people something like a cat but not (*chuckle*)... remember this...

First they came for the Communists, but I was silent.

Then they came for the newspaper people, still I was silent.

Then they came for the artists and homosexuals, but I was quiet.

They came for the Roman Catholics and Jews, but as I was neither a Roman Catholic or Jew I said nothing.

And when at last they came for me there was no one to speak for me.
Anglican minister <1939 Germany>

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Monday, May 10, 2004 6:53 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
^^^
Calling a person a Nazi is appropreate if thier POV parallels the Nazis. A lot of that is going on these days. And the worst thing about the Nazis were all the people of Germany who walked by the Ghettos and were silent. Guess those people didn't like to talk about politics either?

Yes, it's name calling. No, that isn't proper Netiquette at all. Sorry... oh wait, I'm not sorry as silence is nothing but agreement. Do you agree that torture and invasion are OK? Well, most of the world doesn't. Welcome to the backlash.

It's like this. This is not a 'mature' debate when people lie about what's important. People getting killed is important. People being tortured is important. The USA and Britain lieing through thier teeth and invading another country illegally is important. This is a very, very, very, important time. If people are even too afraid to talk about the truth I don't know what to tell you. If people are afraid to call a coward a coward, a liar a liar, or a Right Wing Nazi just that, I can't but wonder who is worse.

So you'll have to forgive me as I am not going to nurse maid liars. I have spent the last two years watching things go from bad to worse than the Vietnam War. Oh sorry... the Vietnam Conflict *pfft* and have had the army of online Right Wing liars calling me names (some on this board) since this whole Invasion of Iraq started over a year ago.

Hmm... well, I am a rather bitter guy. *chuckle*.

So, if political debate is OK with the Admins on this BBS I can't but think the Right Wing has already won as you people complaining about politics are cowards who just want to hide.

I'd love to thank the few who stode up (like Browncoat1 ! Great posts my brotha') and didn't let the Rush Limbaughs of this BBS just post page after page of horrific and murderous lies.

I for one try to sort the wheat from the chaff when it comes to news. It seems all we get is the watered down or slanted spin on matters of what is going on in the world. It is a well known fact that governments will filter or bury anything they do not want the public to know. When things do get out, like the torture in the prison in Baghdad, then the politicians scramble to throw up the smoke and mirrors, redirecting the blame and coming up w/ deniablity of any knowledge.

Personally, as I stated above, I think any and all parties responsible for the abuse of prisoners in U.S. care should be charged, tried, and sentenced to the maximum penalty of the law. The charges against Pfc. Lynndie England & six other U.S. soldiers is a move in the right direction for dealing w/ this issue. My belief is that anyone in Washington who knew about this abuse will get away without a scratch, unless of course someone higher up the chain of command sacrifices them to save themselves.

Seems the Red Cross had been making reports of problems for some time:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-05-06-red-cross-abuse_x.h
tm

Makes you wonder who took those reports from the Red Cross & why nothing was done.

I believe little of what the media or politicans have to say. Seems everyone has their own agenda and they are all experts at twisting and subverting the truth.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Monday, May 10, 2004 7:17 AM

NTXBROWNCOAT

OK, this has gone far enough. I never said that political discussions should be done away with completely. I merely stated that there may be a more appropriate forum for those discussions. Enough said, that is my opinion and nothing more.

I do not use this site as my drug of choice. I ask that nobody read into my posts as I tend to write what I mean. I am not trying to allude to anything.

And to Ghoulman, you definately seem to be an all or nothing type of person. That is fine but know this, just like you are completely entrenched in your opinion so are the people you call Nazis. Yelling at them is like yelling at a brick wall. The wall is not going to move. The only thing that happens is you get a headache and others think the crazy person yelling at the wall should be quiet. I don't mean to be insulting with that comment.

If you were inferring that I am a Nazi because I don't want to see the political posts here, well you are mistaken. I do participate in political debates, but I try not to here (though it seems I am doing so right now doesn't it). I am not going to get into which side of the political arguments I am on, and I am not a Nazi for not sharing those opinions here. If you disagree, you and I have a much different opinion on what is a Nazi.

To those with strong political opinions who wish to be heard and think I, and those who agree with me, are trying to suppress your opinion I say this, a well thought out reasonable exchange of opinion is great, but if you really want something done about it tell your representative. Use your vote! Tell them if they don't vote in a way that reflects your opinion, you won't vote for them come time for re-election. Your only true power is your voice, what you have to say. Thank whatever God you believe in that you live in a place that you can express that as you will. You may want to be more productive with your voice though. I doubt you will hear about any major polical movement being started on this website, not until we get much more organized. Have a great day :biggrin !

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Monday, May 10, 2004 7:26 AM

RKLENSETH

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:
Originally posted by rklenseth:

People have been being blown up for a long time or killed or whatever. It is the nature of man as written in The Prince.

If you think you are going to change that by debating it then go ahead but infortuantely I don't think much will change.

Hey Cicero! *throws beer can* WHAP! right in the mellon heh heh.

btw, saying 'talk' will not change anything would be the opposite of Ciceros' philosophies, or so I believe. Politics are everywhere, as Cicero taught us. There is no place it doesn't exist. If we really got down to it, it's completely unavoidable and if you don't meet it head on in your life, mind, and spirit... someone will eventually drop a bomb on you. So don't look all surprised when it happenes.

The point I was trying to make that someone will drop a bomb on you for whatever reason not depending on what you say or don't say. Words can be powerful but does not resolve things Only action can do that.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 7:30 AM

RKLENSETH

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
^^^ there are lots of people I discuss things with and never call them names. There are trolls and liars who don't deserve that consideration.

As for calling the 'no politics' people something like a cat but not (*chuckle*)... remember this...

First they came for the Communists, but I was silent.

Then they came for the newspaper people, still I was silent.

Then they came for the artists and homosexuals, but I was quiet.

They came for the Roman Catholics and Jews, but as I was neither a Roman Catholic or Jew I said nothing.

And when at last they came for me there was no one to speak for me.
Anglican minister <1939 Germany>

Oh, I am Roman Catholic. Does that mean there coming for me again? Damn it. Haven't they learned enough yet to stop screwing with us. Like the last time we kicked their arses.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 7:40 AM

GRUESOME

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
^^^ there are lots of people I discuss things with and never call them names. There are trolls and liars who don't deserve that consideration.

As for calling the 'no politics' people something like a cat but not (*chuckle*)... remember this...

First they came for the Communists, but I was silent.

Then they came for the newspaper people, still I was silent.

Then they came for the artists and homosexuals, but I was quiet.

They came for the Roman Catholics and Jews, but as I was neither a Roman Catholic or Jew I said nothing.

And when at last they came for me there was no one to speak for me.
Anglican minister <1939 Germany>

Holy crap!

Can you NOT understand that this is a website dedicated to a TV show? Can you NOT understand that there is a difference between censorship and NOT wanting to wade through CRAP like the above trying to read about the TV show? There are 18 MILLION sites on the net devoted to politics... Can't there be JUST ONE that is dedicated to the thing it claims to be?!? JUST ONE?!?!?!?!?! Is that REALLY asking too much?

It seems to me that some people here, such as Ghoulman cannot distinguish the difference between people that prefer polite conversation from those that want to send him to a gas chamber...

Grow up and understand that not everything is about the world... Some people might come to a site called FireFlyFans and want it to be about FireFly...

I would think that the idea of having your own forum dedicated to whatever you want to spew about the world would be appealing for you...
And it would allow people that DON'T want to have to sift through topic after topic of idealogy to find what they are looking for...

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Monday, May 10, 2004 9:35 AM

KNIBBLET

Quote:
.... It never ocurred to me that it could be heard as an attempt to extort sex! Maybe because I'm a guy, and no-one ever tried to use the "If you love me you will" line on me.....
EDIT - That last line is in NO WAY an attempt to belittle Knibblet - sorry, typed first, re-read later!

Don't dispair of my lack of self-worth.
You'd have to make an effort to belittle or insult me. I don't leap to conclusions or look for insult behind casual commentary.
Besides, I am uglier than a stump (morbid and creepifying is a good description as is corpsified and gross) so ... I'm not likely to get that coersion aimed at me.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Monday, May 10, 2004 9:43 AM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by gruesome:
Grow up and understand that not everything is about the world... Some people might come to a site called FireFlyFans and want it to be about FireFly...

As far as I can see, the most active threads tend to be politically related, but, there are more in number for the Firefly related topics. So, you might want to check any number of the other active threads. I think you'll be quite pleased by there Fireflyness.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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Monday, May 10, 2004 9:56 AM

GHOULMAN

Quote:
gruesome said about Ghoulman:
Holy crap!

Can you NOT understand that this is a website dedicated to a TV show? Can you NOT understand that there is a difference between censorship and NOT wanting to wade through CRAP like the above trying to read about the TV show? There are 18 MILLION sites on the net devoted to politics... Can't there be JUST ONE that is dedicated to the thing it claims to be?!? JUST ONE?!?!?!?!?! Is that REALLY asking too much?

It seems to me that some people here, such as Ghoulman cannot distinguish the difference between people that prefer polite conversation from those that want to send him to a gas chamber...

Grow up and understand that not everything is about the world... Some people might come to a site called FireFlyFans and want it to be about FireFly...

I would think that the idea of having your own forum dedicated to whatever you want to spew about the world would be appealing for you...
And it would allow people that DON'T want to have to sift through topic after topic of idealogy to find what they are looking for...

*chuckle* I'm not sure what you missed about that post or the point of this thread... which is precisely that. I get the feeling you haven't read my political posts?

So, uh, you are right sir... though not about me. Much.

*too self*-> I post one article and suddenly I'm a raving beat poet or something.

RKLENSETH, you're a card! lol

and I certainly see your point even if I disagree somewhat. Nicely put.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 10:25 AM

GHOULMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by NTXBROWNCOAT:

And to Ghoulman, you definately seem to be an all or nothing type of person. That is fine but know this, just like you are completely entrenched in your opinion so are the people you call Nazis. Yelling at them is like yelling at a brick wall. The wall is not going to move. The only thing that happens is you get a headache and others think the crazy person yelling at the wall should be quiet. I don't mean to be insulting with that comment.

If you were inferring that I am a Nazi ...

Good Goddess no!

And don't worry about me. I've taken down brick walls during lunch.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 10:34 AM

SPLIBERTARIAN

Unfortunately, those yelling at the brick walls will never be satisfied with a separate place for their political debates because their target audience is not the wall they are yelling at, but those innocent bystanders who want no part of it. What they fail to see is that it is their own actions that turn people off to political debate, not the issues at hand.

And on a different note, (EDIT - but same chord), I love the irony of left-wingers describing right-wingers as Nazis. "Nazi", after all, is a contraction of the party name: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, i.e. National Socialist German Workers' Party.

Socialist leaning, gun control supporting leftists would do well to remember that, before the Nazis came for anyone, they came for their guns.

But that's a hazard of looking at politics along the right-wing/left-wing axis, rather than what I feel is a more illuminating libertarian/authoritarian axis.

(Edited for italics)

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Monday, May 10, 2004 10:37 AM

DUCESTECUM

I can only say that I have stopped visiting the forums.prospero.com/Firefly site for that very reason. As I said in one of their threads, "Too much politics and not enough Firefly!" I love Firefly so much that I hate to see the threads besmudged with daily, ongoing mudslinging about politics which is something I try to avoid at all costs in real life. and yes, when the time comes I do vote and I vote intelligently but I don't like seeing or hearing anything about it when I'm looking for nuggets of Firefly.

Just my .02 cents.

"And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." Mal - Train Job

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Monday, May 10, 2004 10:42 AM

GHOULMAN

^^^ that's the most integral two cents regarding this issue posted yet. Unlike the NRA Libertarian above *chuckle*.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 11:09 AM

SPLIBERTARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
^^^ that's the most integral two cents regarding this issue posted yet. Unlike the NRA Libertarian above *chuckle*.

That would be GOA Libertarian, thank you very much.

And while it is ironic that I slid into political discussion whilst denouncing unwanted political discussion... my point is that the nature and manner of said political discussion often deems it counterproductive anyhow. Using the Nazi reference as an example, the facist tendencies of the right do not out-weigh the facist tendencies of the left, but accusations of such do serve to turn off the casual observer to the discussion.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 11:12 AM

ASTRIANA

For those with an interest in discussing politics - and for those wishing to avoid said discussions, please check out this thread:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=5142

Also, here's the link to the new forum:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/threadlist.asp?b=18

~A~
El Jefe Magnifico's Mistress... Of Communications and Harems

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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Monday, May 10, 2004 12:46 PM

ZOID

Astriana:

Oh! My! God(dess)!

I just noticed that the "Our President" and "(blah-blah) Torture..." threads are gone from the General Discussion board. Can it be? Are we saved?

Thank you, thank you, thank you! (zoid does Three Stooges-style 'happy dance', which is very tricky to do solo; children and household pets look at him strangely)

To any lingering pol-trolls: I adhere to the wise counsel of a great man, who warned Americans to avoid political parties and the fervor associated with party affiliation, "the spirit of party". From Encarta:

Quote:
Let me ... warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally .... A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume ....

The man? The Father of Our Nation, George Washington, in his farewell address. The people of our country, today, would do well to heed his advice, since it seems almost prescient of our current state of political division. His words also seem to fairly well answer some 'political party addicts' hereabouts, that have insisted their invective is a healthy part of our political process. I'll take Mr. Washington's word on the subject, thanks anyway...

If your announcement of a separate board means those divisive 'real world' topics are banned from the General Board, then, Hurrah! You are truly my heroine!

Did I ever mention how smart I think those 'Founding Father' guys were?

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Even back when, River had that indefinable 'it', y'know? Inquisitive, insightful -- Very focused... Some things never change."

- 'Wash' Warren, Chief Architect and co-proprietor, "Cretaceous Park", Hera; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

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Monday, May 10, 2004 3:22 PM

ECMORGAN69

It's really funny to me. In the real world of face-to-face discussion and debate, I relish a good political debate. One of my best friends happens to be a bit on the Left, while I lean a bit more to the Right. Our discussions have always been entertaining and thought-provoking, resulting in the occasional changed mind. It's really funny that I've made him a pro-Second Amendment person, and he's changed my mind on abortion.

All that aside, what I think really takes away from all that pleasant give-and-take is the relative anonymity of the Internet and the lack of proximity. Many people, who may otherwise be the gentlest souls in person, can quite rapidly devolve into the most egregious flamers with the walls of an Internet connection separating someone from another person with whom they may be arguing. People just are flat out more circumspect in their thoughts and in their speech when someone is right in front of them.

If people were more willing to be less partisan and hate-filled in their ranting (myself included

,) then maybe some of these discussions would be more than the bile-filled screeds they often are. To be fair, I'm definitely just as guilty as the rest, but then again, I try to avoid the threads, too.

They can have my "Firefly" DVDs when they pry them from my cold, dead fingers....

Oh yeah,

you, FOX TV!!

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:58 AM

IAMJACKSUSERNAME

Well, I'm all right. - Mal

After consultation with fellow members of FireflyFans.net, I am pleased to announce a series of new initiatives designed to make the site more friendly than ever. These policies include:

1: The control of controversial coverage. From now on, members will be required to write about, and post pictures of, only fuzzy bunnies. Furthermore, no political agenda or biased opinion can be rendered on the topic of fuzzy bunnies. Fuzzy bunnies cannot be portrayed in a threatening or threatened light, or in a negative or perjorative manner.

It is recognized that potential members do not always see eye to eye on issues of importance in politics or in the world at large. Seeing a contrary opinion could intimidate potential Firefly fans, so that aspect of FireflyFans.net has been eliminated so as to facilitate greater fan participation.

An example of an appropriate post using the new guidelines follows:

Quote:
Fuzzy bunnies.
Browncoat1 "We're not gonna die, because we are so...very...fuzzy"

Fuzzy bunnies are shiny.

"May have been on the fuzzy side. Convinced it was the shiny one."

2: Control of opinion pieces. To prevent the predominance of any one political view, all political opinion pieces must agree. Because of the difficulty of achieving this, the topic of discussion will also be limited to fuzzy bunnies, particularly since the public opinions of most major political factions tend to agree on the editorially sanctioned view of the aforementioned bunnies.

For example:

Quote:
Conservatives at FireflyFans, and fuzzy bunnies.
Zoid "Like everyone else, thinks fuzzy bunnies are shiny"

We like fuzzy bunnies too.

Lovingly,
zoid

3: Replies will be limited to muted approval of the content of the site, for example:

Quote:
Astriana "Lookit the fuzzies on the train!"

I thought that Browncoat1's article, "Fuzzy bunnies", was shiny. I also like fuzzy bunnies. They are shiny.

~A~
...I'm still fuzzy,
You can't take the shiny from me.

4: All fans will be required to cease any behaviour that might be construed as unpleasant or threatening. It is understood that to allow any member of the site to abuse their admittedly mighty standing on the web would be a shame, and send potential members away from the warm and fuzzy comfort of the site.

For example:

Person on the street: Oh, look, its Static, a browncoat from FireflyFans! Hello Static.
Static: Fuzzy bunnies are shiny.

We hope you will find comfort in the site in the future.
--
I am Jack's username
FTL fuzzy bunnies? Shiny!
Support our bunnies.

With apologies to Malcom Sheppard, of A kinder, gentler, editorial policy: http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/97/Mar/fuzzy.html

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:07 PM

SERGEANTX

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:11 PM

SERGEANTX

http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=01302004

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:12 PM

SPOOKYJESUS

Poo hat!
Poo hat on your head!

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:37 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by gruesome:
Holy crap!
Can you NOT understand that this is a website dedicated to a TV show? Can you NOT understand that there is a difference between censorship and NOT wanting to wade through CRAP like the above trying to read about the TV show? There are 18 MILLION sites on the net devoted to politics... Can't there be JUST ONE that is dedicated to the thing it claims to be?!? JUST ONE?!?!?!?!?! Is that REALLY asking too much?

Hate to tell you, but you clicked on the link for the discussion, read through it down to the bottom and then added to it - could have just skipped the thread and gone onto one discussing Mal's britches or Kaylee's tatoos.

Whilst I don't often post on the political threads, I often skim them - as many before have noted, your average FF fan has a modicum of intelligence, and the views are often interesting. Fact is, Firefly isn't throwing up much new for discussion at this time, and its important to keep the board and the community going - at times like this, the topics will wander a little.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:51 PM

ECMORGAN69

But what about kittens? Kittens are shiny too, aren't they? Unless...