5 things that TSCC could really improve upon by somaholiday

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 1:18 PM

I'm going to go out on a limb and disagree with all your points.

1. Acting: I actually think the acting is pretty good, especially considering that it's sci-fi on network TV. I love sci-fi but so often the acting is campy and melodramatic. This is the first sci-fi show since Star Trek: The Next Generation that hasn't made me cringe to watch (excepting of course our dear Firefly, and not counting Heroes as sci-fi). In particular I think the acting of the four members of the Connor family -- Sarah, John, Cameron, and Derrek -- has been especially strong. There have been moments where they really hit on some of the unspoken parts of the entire Sarah Connor myth, such as what it would have been like for John Connor as a teenager, and the constant, never-ending stress that Sarah is under to keep him alive and teach him what he needs to know. The reveal this season about what John did when he and Sarah were captured in the season finale last season (trying not to give a spoiler) hit me particularly hard.

2. Congruency: I think the characters have been fairly consistent, with the exception of the part with Cameron that you pointed out. But my impression from those first episodes is that that whole first bit with meeting John was pre-programmed behavior, set up by John in the future specifically so Cameron could get John's attention and trust. They've also dropped muliple hints that Cameron is not a normal terminator, and that her relationship with John in the future is much deeper than the normal protector-bot situation. I would have prefered that they spelled out the pre-programmed bit a little clearer, but I haven't been bothered by congruency at all.

3. Time travel: You may have to spell this one out much clearer, because I'm really not seeing it. If you mean the time travel to bring John, Sarah, and Cameron up to the present day, without messing with the timeline of T1 or T2, I think the show can get that one gimme. They do seem to have a lot more people coming back from the future, but Derrek specifically says that they had captured an entire facility. In the first movie Kyle makes it sound like the facility was destroyed, but how would he have known after he went through the gate? In any case, I haven't found the time travel in the show to be sloppy in the slightest. The two recent episodes that revolved around time travel (last week's with Cameron at the library, and a week or two previous, with Jesse holding the guy in the shipping container) I thought were both very clever subplots, and good uses of time travel.

4. Scenes in the future: Not having enough scenes in the future doesn't really bother me. Even in the movies, the future scenes were always really short, just glimpses really. The show obviously is going to have even less of a budget, and I'd rather they spent the budget elsewhere. Again, this is sci-fi on network TV, so I'm willing to forgive a few things. Secondly, it's The Sarah Connor Chronicles, not The John Connor Chronicles, or even The Connor Chronicles. This is Sarah's story, even though her life revolves around John. And every version of the story has included Sarah not living to see the resistance.

5. Season 1 Finale: I didn't think it sucked, but again I'm not judging this against the movies but rather against other network sci-fi shows. Given the writers' strike and the way so many other shows ended abruptly, I can't really fault them. The fight sequence with Agent Ellison didn't seem like it was suppose to be the big reveal of a terminator in full action, with CG effects to rival the movies. Rather it was Ellison realizing for the first time that there was something otherworldly going on. For him to see it all first hand would have ruined his character arc, *and* required a higher budget. I liked the season finale for the tension between John and Cameron (something horribly missing on all the other shows I watch recently), and the reveal later on about what happened to John that episode. But given the writers' strike, over all I think they did an outstanding job.

Overall I really like the show. It's a completely different experience than T3, and I wasn't expecting it to compare to that at all. I think they've managed to create a couple of well rounded and fully fleshed out characters (Derrek and Cameron in particular) that fit into the overall myth better than Katherine Bruster from T3 did.

I like the subplot with the red-headed terminator (who is a T1000 I guess?), but I find her acting not quite up to par sometimes. I feel like I know way more about Agent Ellison than I need to (ex-wife, etc.), but maybe it'll pay off eventually. I feel like they bring in characters and then just leave them hanging for a few weeks, or kill them without the payoff (ie, I don't think Sarah and John have even found out about their psychologist yet); I wish they would introduce, move through the arc, and come to some conclusion with more intention, rather than leaving threads hanging to come back to later. And the constant presence of the sparkling clean Dodge truck is really starting to bug me, lol.

All that said, the show is definitely in my top 5 shows currently on TV, and one of the very few series I have my DVR set to record. It isn't perfect, but it's definitely keeping my attention, and as wonderful as Summer is, she is at best only 50% of the reason I watch the show. At this point I'm much more invested in the character of Cameron than I am in just wanting Summer to do well.

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 2:29 PM

Well, in response to your bit about the time travel, I'll say the following things.
1. If the machines have a facility for time travel, why not just send back a ton of terminators and kill everyone more quickly? They're supposed to be super smart, learning robots. If humans could build skynet, they could definitely do it. After all, they seem to know about the components needed to build it (they sent that one robot back to convince that woman to build the traffic system).
2. The whole subplot with andy good is rife with problems. The reason derek killed him was because he told him that he was partially responsible for skynet in the future. But if derek then went back and killed him in the past, then he wouldn't have been around in the future to tell derek he was responsible, so derek wouldn't have known to kill him in the past, etc.
3. The fact that a robot was sent back after derek and the team suggests that the robots have other time travel facilities, besides the one that john captured. If this is the case, why not just send robot reinforcements back in time to stop them from capturing the time travel facility?
4. This may have been explained in season 2, but what the hell was going on when derek and that team got captured in the future and then suddenly the robots were gone and they were all let go?

These are some of the glaring errors I was referring to, and there are tons more... these are just the ones I can remember offhand (its been a couple of months since I watched season 1)

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 4:22 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by somaholiday:
Well, in response to your bit about the time travel, I'll say the following things.
1. If the machines have a facility for time travel, why not just send back a ton of terminators and kill everyone more quickly? They're supposed to be super smart, learning robots. If humans could build skynet, they could definitely do it. After all, they seem to know about the components needed to build it (they sent that one robot back to convince that woman to build the traffic system).

That may not be possible. We don't know how many they can send at once, or how often. Might be few and far between. And, they cannot come with weapons. So, sending an all-out assult force, or even a larger contingency of infiltrators (say, enogh to create Skynet themselves), could backfire by alerting the world at large, which could endanger the creation of Skynet. And Skynet still needs to be built, or none of it would happen anyway.

Quote:
Originally posted by somaholiday:
2. The whole subplot with andy good is rife with problems. The reason derek killed him was because he told him that he was partially responsible for skynet in the future. But if derek then went back and killed him in the past, then he wouldn't have been around in the future to tell derek he was responsible, so derek wouldn't have known to kill him in the past, etc.

Not really. Since they established a couple weeks back (with the collaborator Jessie captured, I forget his name) that Derek didn't know, that they were creating alternate timelines by their actions. The Derek in 2008 is not quite the same Derek that the Jessie in 2008 knew in the future. She is likely from a timeline where Derek didn't know Goode, either.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 4:51 PM

ahh, well I haven't seen the new season, so I didn't know about that plot line and can't really critique it yet... All these points I'm bringing up are just based on my reaction to viewing season 1

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 11:22 PM

I disagree with 3. I thought theym were working around the paradoxes well, and interestingly. Saw pilot first half on tv, then rest on dvd.
I don't expect much from tv, so my level of disappointment is not high.
Much of killing a swat team would not be akllowed on network tv, I'm thinking.
I've seen Lena Headly in otherm works, enjoy seeing her. editors/writers/creators have messed up the continuity,I agree.
Love watching Summer, and terminaqtors.
Is Shirley Manso the same as Garbage singer?

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Friday, December 5, 2008 2:35 AM

FLATTOP

Yes, Shirley Manson is the lead singer from Garbage.

Multiple timelines are lots of fun. String theory currently (and Sci-Fi writers for decades) hold that at every decision point in our universe the decision goes both ways, and a new universe (or plane of existence) is created that conforms to that decision. We all currently exist in our universe where decisions have been made the way they have. Immediately adjoining us is one where this post was typed with one less error than I've made. Reaching through time would involve navigating an essentially infinite number of decision branches. Going backward, you can easily get folks from very different, yet familiar, futures ending up together.
In fact, in 50% - 1 (the 1 being the ONLY matching universe) of the potential universes you end up with someone coming back in time that is from a different future than the path you would otherwise end up on. In fully 50% of the potential universes the traveler decided not to come back at all.
With this in mind, we should expect each entity that travels back to be from a different future. It is entirely possible that the terminators that are being sent back are from timelines where the resistance efforts to capture the travel facility were unsuccesful. This would help explain why they are not acting in a coordinated fashion: They simply are unaware of each other and/or do not consider John Connor to be as big a threat because his forces have been defeated/crippled in the future. Sure, he's a priority one target if you come across him, but your mission is to make things run smoother for us in the future by...

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Friday, December 5, 2008 9:17 AM

But the problem with the end of that theory is that if you assume that the terminators are from different futures (where the time travel facility was not captured) then it would be impossible for one of the terminators to have the destruction of derek's team as his mission, because they would not have been sent back in the future he was from.

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Friday, December 5, 2008 10:08 AM

ISAHIAH

Maybe the machines from their universe have retaken the travel facility and sent units after Derek's team to prevent them from altering the timeline. Or maybe they all haz 2 much cheezburger...

We could go on like this for a while, methinks. Infinite universes mean infinite possibilities, right?

I enjoy the show. I like robots, I like convoluted time travel plots, I like Summer, I like Shirley Manson (like Garbage, too ^.^)

SOLD!

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...Dust monkeys...

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Friday, December 5, 2008 10:58 AM

There have been time travel paradoxes in the story since the first movie. John Connor sends Kyle Reese back in time to protect Sarah Connor, and with her conceive John Connor. But if Kyle never went back in time, how could there be a John Connor to send him back in the first place??

These sorts of infinite loops are throughout the Terminator myth. You can either accept that it's the one major flaw in the story and move on, or you can accept that the story fiction is that paradoxical loops like Kyle Reese have always and will always exist.

Or you can accept the alternate universes theory -- ie, perhaps at one point there was a universe in which John Connor never existed, and someone else was the leader of the resistance. Kyle Reese was sent back in time for some other mission, happened to meet Sarah and conceive John, who then, because of Kyle's knowledge of the future, went on to become the leader of the resistance. The point of the time travel in all of the Terminator stories is to either preserve the way the future unfolded, or change the way it unfolded.

In terms of multiple universes, they're trying to make sure that the important choices are still the same choices in the future. For instance, in the third Terminator movie, John points out that if the Terminators hadn't come back and disrupted his life during the second movie, he would have gotten together with Katherine Bruster then, thus preserving the future where she is his wife and second in command. Because he didn't hook up with her then, it was necessary that they be thrown together in the third movie, so they could end up together and preserve the future in which she succeeds John in commanding the resistance. (Obviously the show doesn't use any of the third movie elements, but it's a good example of changing things so that the outcome is eventually the same. The whole idea of Judgement Day just being delayed in the third movie is another good example.)

Anyway, the entire Terminator myth is full of paradoxes and alternate futures. At least the show is living up to it and facing it head on. Most stories with time travel have infinite loops, or other wonkiness. The only truly tight time travel story I've ever encountered is "The Anubis Gates" by Tim Powers.

And you should totally watch season 2. I think Hulu or Fox.com might have all the S2 episodes. So far I'm liking it better than season 1. My husband was not quite so into the show after the end of season 1, but now it's one of his favorites, because of the last few weeks.

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Friday, December 5, 2008 3:39 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

It is possible the John Connor who sent Kyle back to protect Sarah in T1 was fathered by someone else later in Sarah's life. When she became pregnant, and considering everything Kyle had told her, she assumed that child was John and thus named him that. If that was the case, then the John played by Edward Furlong, Nick Stahl and now Thomas Dekker, is not the John who was the resistance leader in the future. Besides, none of them resemble Christian Bale that much.

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Sunday, December 7, 2008 10:29 PM

SEVERUS

I have to disagree with the OP regarding the acting on TSCC. It's really superb. I love "Chuck" (which I think has one of the best ensemble casts in tv history), but I choose to watch TSCC over "Chuck" on monday nights because TSCC is a slow burn.

Summer has really thrown her heart into the role of Cameron, and it's amazing to see what a gifted actress summer is.

Lena Headey is also great as Sarah Connor. She can say so much without saying a word.

Brian Austin Green has found the role that will make people forget 90210. He is forever Derek Reese in my mind.

If you aren't watching this show, please give it a chance. It's Joss Whedon's favorite show on television right now, and there's a reason for that.

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Sunday, December 7, 2008 11:27 PM

Are some people missing the point about time travel storylines, and paradoxes?
Haven't checked that one story mentioned above, but can anybody name one film or TV story that didn't involve paradoxes?
Time Rider was his own greatgrandfather.
In Final Countdown, the Chief Engineer of the Nimitz was the prinicle designer 20 years before when they returned to port (his dog came out to meet the ship at dock).
Kyle Reese WAS John Connor's father (the same photo Sarah had was given to Kyle from John).
Even in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, they talk about planting a gun in the past so they can find it behind a bush now.

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Monday, December 8, 2008 6:20 PM

Ok, so now I've seen all of season 2 so far (except the one that came out today, its not on hulu yet)... I will say this, I like the show ALOT better now than I did when I started watching it. Cameron is still the best character in my opinion, but some other people have really picked up the pace (Derek is my second favorite character, although that's nothing new)... the one complaint I have with season 2 is that I hate Riley, I think she was a terrible addition to the show... although this is more of a personal thing, I don't think her acting is particularly bad or anything.

Anywho, I just thought I'd follow up.

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Monday, December 8, 2008 8:25 PM

Reviewing some posts in this thread, I'm finding it a bit humorous when people complain about the terminators not being good actors.
They're TERMINATORS - ROBOTS, CYBORGNETIC ORGANISMS! Everybody hailed Terminator as the perfect vehicle for Arnold specifically because he seemed a bit robotic, not a good actor.
Now people are no longer complimenting actors who attempt to act robotic as achieveing a believable terminator/terminatrix.
Just gets me in the funny.

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Tuesday, December 9, 2008 3:01 AM

RIVERLOVE

I think I get it now. The weekly episodes are NOT meant to flow into eachother as a straight line story, instead they're just vignettes of the larger struggle. They are filled with current events, as well as individual flashbacks to the future. Characters are introduced, and possible plot lines are opened, but the show doesn't follow through on them, it just side-steps them. And that timeline, that poor timeline!@ More and more people "know" about J Day and terminators, and more and more are coming back to pollute the present, so I'd be amazed if there really could be any recognizable future considering all the contamination that has occurred. I guess from Sarah's point view, there is no future except for the one she makes.

I must say, that for my money, nothing in this show has given me the belief that John Connor will be the future leader of the resistance. He doesn't have the wisdom, communication or leadership qualities that will be necessary. I found the end of T3 much more satisfying and believable as to the leadership development of John Connor. When he and Kate Brewster go into that bunker, and when he picks up that microphone to respond to a desperate call from another base, that is when he starts to become the legend that he is destined to be.

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Tuesday, December 9, 2008 6:36 AM

I agree with you about John's leadership capabilities... although I think that might be something done purposefully, so they can begin developing them as the show progresses. Up till now, however, I feel like they really haven't started down that road yet (making John into more of a leader). I wish they would.

And JSF, my critique of the acting was actually directed at all the Non terminators, but as I've said, it's gotten better.

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Tuesday, December 9, 2008 8:11 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:

I must say, that for my money, nothing in this show has given me the belief that John Connor will be the future leader of the resistance. He doesn't have the wisdom, communication or leadership qualities that will be necessary. I found the end of T3 much more satisfying and believable as to the leadership development of John Connor. When he and Kate Brewster go into that bunker, and when he picks up that microphone to respond to a desperate call from another base, that is when he starts to become the legend that he is destined to be.

Well, he is only 15 on the show. I work with teenagers, and don't know many in possesion of a great deal of wisdom, or world-saving leadership skills.

Remember, the John in T3 was a decade older.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, December 9, 2008 11:26 PM

I don't expect John to be a bona fide leader yet. Trained from an early age, yes, and that is critical. But when he is forged as a leader will likely be when hard circumstances demand him to take the lead. Plus, now his mommy is still around, so he doesmn't need to grow up right away.

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Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:36 PM

SEVERUS

Riverlove, the episodes usually do flow together. I heard that Fox asked the producers to do several standalone episodes so that new viewers wouldn't get lost in the existing storylines, which are fairly complex.

It's a fantastic series. Of course Summer Glau rocks in her role. The producers also put a lot of "easter eggs" in each episode, and then explain them later on the producers blog. It's very interactive.

I agree that John Connors doesn't yet possess the leadership skills he needs to save mankind. It's definitely on purpose so that the show can highlight Sarah Connor's efforts to protect her son and possibly change his fate. If the series gets a third season pick-up, I expect to see John Connor begin to develop the requisite leadership abilities.

John turned 16 at the beginning of season 2. BTW, if you want to see Summer Glau acting on display, watch "Alison From Palmdale". Summer plays 3 different roles: Cameron, Allison, and Alison. It's amazing! I understand that the crew gave her a standing ovation at some point during the shoot.

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Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:39 PM

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Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by somaholiday:
Ok, so now I've seen all of season 2 so far (except the one that came out today, its not on hulu yet)... I will say this, I like the show ALOT better now than I did when I started watching it. Cameron is still the best character in my opinion, but some other people have really picked up the pace (Derek is my second favorite character, although that's nothing new)... the one complaint I have with season 2 is that I hate Riley, I think she was a terrible addition to the show... although this is more of a personal thing, I don't think her acting is particularly bad or anything.

Agreed on all points. I don't particularly like Riley, but I like the plot point she presents. I like that it may reveal more about Cameron, and I'm looking forward to where they're going with the Riley and Jesse subplot.

I liked this week's episode, though it was a bit difficult to follow at some points. Summer had some great lines -- I won't ruin it for those who haven't seen it yet (it should be up on Hulu now though), but there's a part when she's sitting in the passenger seat of a car, and her line is cut in half by someone else talking. Her line made me giggle. Being able to have lines like that, while keeping everyone in character, moving the plot forward, and still having action... well it seems like quite a feat, and they're pulling it off well this season, I think.

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:40 AM

RIVERLOVE

Quote:
Originally posted by severus:
Riverlove, the episodes usually do flow together. I heard that Fox asked the producers to do several standalone episodes so that new viewers wouldn't get lost in the existing storylines, which are fairly complex.

John turned 16 at the beginning of season 2. BTW, if you want to see Summer Glau acting on display, watch "Alison From Palmdale". Summer plays 3 different roles: Cameron, Allison, and Alison. It's amazing! I understand that the crew gave her a standing ovation at some point during the shoot.

I appreciate the information. I like the show very much, and I have not missed one episode. At first I watched it solely for Summer, but now I watch it because it's really good. Summer's performances over the last few episodes have been simply amazing. This Monday is the last show of this "mini-season". I hope it returns and finds an audience on Friday nights.

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Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:57 PM