Impressed: (Zoe & Wash talk) by QueenTiye

Glad to give it a try. Zoe and WAsh are my favorite characters. I got into the show because of Alan Tudyk. I think he is a phenomenal actor. I'm a sucker for a good romance, so they appeal to that part of me. But i can't go for something too sappy. IT works because they are so different: zoe is kinda of uptight and warrior-like, whereas WAsh is laid-back and funny. I guess the differences between them help make it intersting. It makes me want to know why they originally got together. I think that individually, they both have a lot of potential as well. Good dialogue. I want more background info on Wash. He's still a mystery.

agh.. I have to go get ready for trick-or-treating

I'll continue this later.

What is it that you DON'T like about them?

~*Saint of Cheese*~

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Friday, November 1, 2002 8:47 AM

QUEENTIYE

Quote:
Originally posted by SaintofCheese:
What is it that you DON'T like about them?

~*Saint of Cheese*~

Well... I don't think I like Wash period. Of all the characters, he is the one I like the least. And Zoe's deadpan attitude irritates me, but she is starting to grow on me, and I'm starting to see the person behind the 'tude.

What bothers me is them as a couple. To me there is no romantic chemistry whatsoever between them. When I see them together it is slightly jarring to my senses.

Nevertheless - everyone else seems to "get" them together. I tend to think that my prejudice against Wash is tainting my view - I don't like him, and so therefore nobody else should like him. I'd rather see Zoe with just about any other male on the ship.

QT

QueenTiye, Companion Academy, class of 2006

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Friday, November 1, 2002 7:00 PM

hmph! *looks hurt*

Well, I can see there's no hope.. I love Wash. He's my absolute favorite character on the show, so I truly can't relate to what you said. I see a lot of chemistry.

But we're obviously on totally different wavelengths, and it seems unfixable.

~*Saint of Cheese*~

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Saturday, November 2, 2002 6:57 AM

ESME

I didn't think that they were very well-matched at first, and thought Zoe deserved a real man (like GT's real-life man) but then last night they convinced me.
I like them ok apart, but together in their bedroom scene they were GREAT! I loved Wash's logic, Zoe's sexy exhaustion, her sweaty shoulders...

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Saturday, November 2, 2002 4:03 PM

ELKA

Zoe and Wash are a classic case of a strong woman being the dominant personality in the relationship and the man letting her boss him around because.....hey.....he likes it.

. Ok, seriously, I think Wash is a big goof and sorta sardonic to everyone but Zoe and Zoe is really sarcastic and very stand-offish to everyone but Wash, they are very caring and sweet to one another and only one another, like, come see my softer side. and, the

must be great from what we saw in 'Shindig'.

Commander Elka,
The bumpkiniest of the Bumpkin Army.

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Saturday, November 2, 2002 5:09 PM

LATRICE

At first when I saw Zoe and Wash I thought they made a very strange combination. But I began to see they worked because the different personalities of the characters which made them an unusual but great paring and I also think the actor have chemistry with each other

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Saturday, November 2, 2002 5:09 PM

MELEE

Quote:
Originally posted by ELKA:
Ok, seriously, I think Wash is a big goof and sorta sardonic to everyone but Zoe and Zoe is really sarcastic and very stand-offish to everyone but Wash, they are very caring and sweet to one another and only one another, like, come see my softer side.

Exactly! I think that pretty much sums it all up nicely! I love Wash and Zoe so much... I've had a conversation about them with a friend (who also watches Firefly) at 11:00 PM about them that lasted well over an hour and resulted in some scribbles of a fanfic (that I'm not sure will ever be actually typed into a story) by her in the three and a half hour car trip we took to Boston the next day.

They need their own episode, with them as the major A plot. We've been getting little glimpses of the nuances of their relationship, but not enough to satisfy... just enough to make me want more very badly!

-----------------------------------------
"Here lies my beloved Zoe, my autumn flower... somewhat less attractive now that she's all corpsified and gross..."

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Saturday, November 2, 2002 5:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by QueenTiye:
I guess I'm the only one who STILL doesn't get Zoe & Wash! I'm impressed that everyone else seemingly does! I can't stand watching the two of them together. Anyone want to convince me to the contrary?

QT

QueenTiye, Companion Academy, class of 2006

It's the magnet thing -- opposites attract. They both appear to be the type of people who would wear "masks" and maybe under the maks they are more alike than they seem? It could be they're the type of people that the more they downplay it, the more important it is.
On the other hand, it could be like Nynaeve and Lan (Wheel of Time, Robert Jordan); they are a couple because the writer said they are a couple, and any evidence against it is circumstantial! (at least in the case of Nynaeve and Lan. Making sense of those two is like

!)

Sensou
Sweet is love when all is sane
Sweet is death to end the pain
Cruel is death when all is well
Curel is love when all is hell

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Saturday, November 2, 2002 7:41 PM

MOPBUCKET

Opposites attract. (If same attracted same then Zoe would be with Mal...now wouldn't that suck?)

Face it, he's the Yang to her Yin (yes I know I got the male/female thing backwards, but, hey, she wears the pants in this relationship doesn't she?) Besides, having two widely divergent personalities in a relationship is perfect fodder for writers to have a field day with. (Something they have been milking since episode 1 I might add.)

Anyhow don't you all think it's both fun and ironic to have a powerful, tough, black woman and a weak (though funny), submissive white man together? Personally I find the reverse stereotype (or whatever the hell you call it) quite rich. :)

Beware the bucket, and...mop...I think...

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Saturday, November 2, 2002 8:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Melee:

Exactly! I think that pretty much sums it all up nicely! I love Wash and Zoe so much... I've had a conversation about them with a friend (who also watches Firefly) at 11:00 PM about them that lasted well over an hour and resulted in some scribbles of a fanfic (that I'm not sure will ever be actually typed into a story) by her in the three and a half hour car trip we took to Boston the next day.

You guys should finish it. I want to read it.

There's also the waking me up on Saturday mornings to talk about Firefly. It's like my Saturday alarm clock. And of course, all you cared about was that Zoe and Wash scene.

~*Saint of Cheese*~

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Saturday, November 2, 2002 9:58 PM

LOONYTOON

Why does everybody assume wash is weak? Was there a scene where he got his butt kicked? I thought he was just a funny guy, but not weak.

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Saturday, November 2, 2002 11:21 PM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND

I love Wash and Zoe together. Really, I do. When they have their clothes on.

I had to look away during the "afterglow" scene. It was embarassing, like walking in on your parents doing it. They're the grown-ups on the ship, they aren't supposed to be doing it.

Oddly enough, I still think they have good chemistry and can't wait to see an ep centered on them.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Sunday, November 3, 2002 7:39 AM

ELKA

Not weak but weaker, comparatively. He just doesn't have a confrontational personality type.

The bumpkiniest of the Bumpkin Army.

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Sunday, November 3, 2002 8:00 AM

I didn't find that scene embarassing! I think it would be odd if they didn't ever show them together...

~*Saint of Cheese*~

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Sunday, November 3, 2002 7:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by loonytoon:
Why does everybody assume wash is weak? Was there a scene where he got his butt kicked? I thought he was just a funny guy, but not weak.

Personally, I think he's one of those "hidden steel" type people -- you can push them so far, but at a certain point (and usually without warning) they just...stop, and no force on earth can move them. Except for things like captains, as seen in Out of Gas. (sorry if that spoiled any).

Sensou
Sweet is love when all is sane
Sweet is death to end the pain
Cruel is death when all is well
Curel is love when all is hell

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Monday, November 4, 2002 2:10 AM

QUILL

Not so much "weak," I see it, as "less aggressive." And Zoe did say they fight with each other sometimes. Anybody here read ElfQuest? Remember Redlance and Nightfall?

Inside every cynic there's an idealist desperately yearning to be let out, and when they are let out they're usually a real pain and cause all sorts of trouble. --Chris Boucher

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Monday, November 4, 2002 5:10 AM

Personally, I think that Wash is just as strong in character as Zoe, just in a different way. Yes, Zoe could kill him with her little pinky if she wished, and Wash thinks that's Sexy as hell. But if you've seen Serentiy--or read the script like me--you know that when you put Wash behind the yoke, he's badass.

________________

At first it's just a place, and then you start to make memories and then it's like... that's where Spike slept, and there... that's where Anya and I drowned the Separvo demon and right here, here's where my heart got all ripped out... I really hate this place

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Monday, November 4, 2002 5:59 AM

RHEA

I love Zoe and Wash together. Like Queen Tiye, I was a bit put off by Wash at first. It took me a couple of episodes to warm up to him, and now I love him.

And I love Zoe and Walsh because they ARE opposites. I'd love to know how they went from "he bothers me" to marriage, as well.

I know real-life couples who are polar opposites like Zoe and Wash who have excellent relationships.

The afterglow scene both delighted and bugged me. Someone should tell Gina not to do heavy nasal breathing. It began to get on my nerves after the 4th or 5th time. Other than that, I always enjoy Zoe and Wash's scenes together.

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Tuesday, November 5, 2002 7:57 AM

FORGRAETJUSTICE

Not much romantic chemistry between Zoe and Wash?!!

Well....DUH! They're MARRIED! Ever been married? Well...I haven't, but for anyone who's not a fool, it takes a lot more than chemistry to make a marriage. Zoe doesn't strike me as the "chemical" type anyway. She is a soldier after all. Doesn't mean she doesn't have a heart, but she wouldn't fall head over heels. A lot of the passionate soap-opera steamy relationships we see on TV are nothing more than psychological pornography.

I'll take a trusting, loving woman with a big gun ANY day!

I know a lot of people don't like Wash...but hey, niether did Zoe (apologies if that was a spoiler).

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Tuesday, November 5, 2002 12:26 PM

ELKA

at this point, what i'm really curious about is why they call him 'Wash' .

The bumpkiniest of the Bumpkin Army.

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Tuesday, November 5, 2002 12:41 PM

ILOVEJAYNE

I figure it's short for "Washington" or "Washburn" or something. Let's hope it has mothing to do with cleaning, altough I sure wouldn't bet on it.

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Tuesday, November 5, 2002 1:40 PM

TINYTIMM

Quote:
Originally posted by ELKA:
at this point, what i'm really curious about is why they call him 'Wash'.

His name is Washington?

Jeff
Who suspects Washburn is also a possibility.

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Tuesday, November 5, 2002 2:45 PM

The common names a culture uses have a tendency to change over time. For example, "Ashley" used to be a male name. Maybe Wash's name is just "Wash."

Or not.

________________

At first it's just a place, and then you start to make memories and then it's like... that's where Spike slept, and there... that's where Anya and I drowned the Separvo demon and right here, here's where my heart got all ripped out... I really hate this place

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Tuesday, November 5, 2002 5:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Rhea:
The afterglow scene both delighted and bugged me. Someone should tell Gina not to do heavy nasal breathing. It began to get on my nerves after the 4th or 5th time. Other than that, I always enjoy Zoe and Wash's scenes together.

yea.. that was the worst part. The breathing was just distracting and annoying.

Oh.. and I kinda hope his name is just Wash. I think it makes it more interesting.

~*Saint of Cheese*~

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Wednesday, November 6, 2002 12:37 AM

TINYTIMM

Quote:
Originally posted by LivingImpaired:
The common names a culture uses have a tendency to change over time. Maybe Wash's name is just "Wash."

Hummm. I haddn't thought of that. The language tends to simplify. I'm a Geoffrey, but Jeff is more commonly used now days, because that's the name I use as opposed to the name I sign.

Jeff
Who notes simplicity triumphs over complexity.

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Wednesday, November 6, 2002 12:51 PM

ILOVEJAYNE

I hadn't thought of that either. I used to know a guy whose actual given name was Bill. (And how we ever got "Bill" for William and "Bob" for Robert, I'll never understand.)

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Wednesday, November 6, 2002 12:56 PM

Both my grandfather and his son are named "Billy." My only escuse for them is that they are from TN.

________________

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

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Wednesday, November 6, 2002 1:23 PM

LJSQUARED

Quote:
Originally posted by ilovejayne:
I hadn't thought of that either. I used to know a guy whose actual given name was Bill. (And how we ever got "Bill" for William and "Bob" for Robert, I'll never understand.)

I've always wondered how they got "Dick" from Richard.

Firefly@Trekvideo.com
http://www.trekvideo.com/firefly

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Wednesday, November 6, 2002 4:11 PM

DELVO

Notice that the weird nickname examples here have the weird part at the beginning, and have replaced a "bendy" consonant (I forget the technical term but they're r, w, and y) with a vocal stop (b/g/d, "stops" because airflow momentarily cut, and "vocal" because they're not p/k/t). And the stop that's put in that place is similar (in how the mouth forms it) to either the consonant it's replacing or the next consonant after it.

That's a classic little-kid consonant substitution, the kind of thing you'll hear ALL THE TIME from kids of a certain age range, so I'd say those nicknames originate with little kids who hadn't yet learned to pronounce the real names.

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Thursday, November 7, 2002 9:14 AM

ILOVEJAYNE

I guess that makes more sense than anything else I've heard. I know it's where "Bubba" comes from, cuz I have cousins we all call Bubba and Sissy. (At least no one in my family has a double first name. Yet.)

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Thursday, November 7, 2002 11:20 AM

TINYTIMM

Quote:
Originally posted by ilovejayne:
I hadn't thought of that either. I used to know a guy whose actual given name was Bill. (And how we ever got "Bill" for William and "Bob" for Robert, I'll never understand.)

And how about Blue from William, as down Australia way?

Jeff
Who ponders Liz, Betty and Libby from Elizabeth.

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Thursday, November 7, 2002 11:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TinyTimm:
Jeff
Who ponders Liz, Betty and Libby from Elizabeth.

Liz makes sense to me. Elizabeth.

________________

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

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Friday, November 8, 2002 4:52 AM

DELVO

Quote:
Jeff
Who ponders Liz, Betty and Libby from Elizabeth

Liz is just the most "stressed" or "emphasized" or "accented" syllable.

Betty is the final syllable, with a consonant substitution: from a fricative or affricate to a stop... and that stop, although written as T instead of D, is more often pronounced vocally than non-vocally. That change and the addition of an "ee" at the end fit the little-kid pattern. "Th" is probably one of the more often substituted sounds, apparently a hard one to say right, as you can tell by how few languages other than English have it at all and how many English speakers continue to replace it with F or V even as adults. That would explain why Cynthia becomes Cindy: replacing the hard-to-say consonant with a vocal stop (because vocal stops are the easiest-to-say of them all) produced with the tongue somewhere near the same position.

Also remember that sometimes the consonant substitution is based on the most similar stop (in terms of how the sounds are formed) to the replaced consonant, as in Dick and Bill, but sometimes based on the next consonant after it, especially if that's a stop, as in Bob. Apply this to the Z in Elizabeth, and you get Libby (by skipping to the stop that comes after the hard-to-say consonant) or Liddy (by substituting the hard-to-say consonant for its nearest vocal stop relative)... both of which are nicknames actually used in the real world.

In other words, it's just more cases of little kids unable to say the actual names.

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Friday, November 8, 2002 6:41 AM

FABALA30

I, too, started watching this show because I had seen Alan Tudyk on the commercials. I really like him as an actor...but I must say, so far I haven't seen enough from this character to know how I feel about Wash. Because I like the actor, I'm almost instinctively influenced to say that Wash is my favorite character...but if I really think about it, that isn't true. I haven't seen enough from him yet to know that. For whatever reason, his character has not been given much in the way of substance yet (although I will admit I did miss the first aired episode). I'm still waiting to see if it's Wash I like or just Alan Tudyk.

For those of you who can't stand him...go watch "A Knight's Tale," where he is fabulously brilliant as Wat. It might change your mind!

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Friday, November 8, 2002 9:31 AM

BOBKNAPTOR

This is actually really interesting. It sounds like you've studied the science of language. :) So, here's one that has had me VERY confused my entire life:

My grandmother's real name is Sarah. but all her life, her nickname has been Sally. What's up with that? even she doesn't know where it came from.

______________
It's an ancient scared text, not a magic eight ball.

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Friday, November 8, 2002 7:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by fabala30:
For those of you who can't stand him...go watch "A Knight's Tale," where he is fabulously brilliant as Wat. It might change your mind!

He's even better in 28 days. Gerhardt is the most amazing and amusing character. THAT is why I got into him.

~*Saint of Cheese*~

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Sunday, November 10, 2002 9:50 AM

BOBKNAPTOR

I was excited when I saw him in the previews too. I said to my co-WhedonFreak friend "Look! It's that guy from 28 days!" and they all looked at me like I was crazy... no idea who i was talking about. I would have watched the show with or without him, but he's definitely an added bonus. :)

______________
Jayne: Complicated escape and rescue action.
Wash: I was gonna watch. It's VERY exciting.

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Sunday, November 10, 2002 2:12 PM

I love 28 days so much because of Gerhardt. I get these cravings... I just have to rent it and watch all of his scene whenever i'm unhappy. My mom and i always make little Gerhardt references in speech. (everytime Zoe and Wash kiss, my mom goes "oh! the tiny clusters of tumors in my brain!")

I have that whole fork rant memorized.

~*Saint of Cheese*~

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Sunday, November 10, 2002 5:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ELKA:
at this point, what i'm really curious about is why they call him 'Wash' .

The bumpkiniest of the Bumpkin Army.

Fake name -- his real name is probably some girl-ish thing or some really old name like "Thaddeus." Or, he could have a warrant out for his arrest that only idenifies him by name. Or it could be some kind of running joke. Or it could have some connection to his last name -- whatever the h**l that is. My pet theroy is that his real name is Han Solo. Still working out the details, like what that has to do with "Wash."

Sensou
Sweet is love when all is sane
Sweet is death to end the pain
Cruel is death when all is well
Curel is love when all is hell

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Sunday, November 10, 2002 5:21 PM