Imponderables: Under The Mistletoe

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 9:49 AM

FREELANCERTEX

I cn tutor espanol, RF!!!!!!!! ^_^ I r good at teh languages :P art is meh, its an elective right? pretty much doin the same traditions here, MsA.

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:32 AM

LEOPARDFLAN

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 11:32 AM

FREELANCERTEX

ever done pottery? i cant do portraits or drawing to save my life >< building structures, pottery, designing, anything that requires construction or planning i can do. no pictures :P

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:10 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 2:29 PM

FREELANCERTEX

never had rabbit. deer, yes, rabbit no. what do u usually do with em, cooking wise?

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 2:52 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Um, cook them... They are like chicken. Prepare it to how you like. I prefer mine stewed with taters and the like. Sometimes baked in the oven. MMmmmm.... So I have started my campaign against the arrogant decoy maker from the show we recently attended. I've contacted the local paper via e-mail detailing the misinformation and the liability of their lack of fact finding. The writer even admitted to have lived in the valley her whole life and knew better. How does the government continue to protect people in the media who do this? This isn't Brittney Spears' baby daddy drama and what she is wearing to the Grammys. This is dying history that some people persue for financial gain and social notoriety at the cost of the spirit and tradition of a dying people. I am doing my very best not to misdirect my anger. But it gets harder and harder to excuse people who know better. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx The country is making a big mistake not teaching kids to cook and raise a garden and build fires. -Loretta Lynn

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 2:56 PM

FREELANCERTEX

cool. sounds tasty lol. what happened to the decoy maker? or..what did he do...?

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:11 PM

MSA

basically he learned how to make them from a book ( completely ignoring the traditional makers and the way the craft is handed down from a teacher to student within the tribe) and then he began to promote himself as the guy who revived a lost art. He made claims in the paper that he had to learn that way because no one was around to teach him ( a total lie as NV has been making them exactly as he learned from his uncle and exactly as the skill has been passed down for generations.. verified by tribal elders) He promotes himself all the time and even through his publicity won the governors award. He acts like he's this huge big shot and has been teaching non natives how to make a native craft ( illegal) and they have been selling them... again illegal, Plus totally disrespectful to the true artists who have carried this tradition for generations and who are humble. This guy's such an absolute ass!!!! To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:11 PM

LEOPARDFLAN

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:15 PM

FREELANCERTEX

ooh, pottery on the wheel is the only pottery i can do :P easier to form though its rough on the hands >< Quote: Originally posted by MsA: basically he learned how to make them from a book ( completely ignoring the traditional makers and the way the craft is handed down from a teacher to student within the tribe) and then he began to promote himself as the guy who revived a lost art. He made claims in the paper that he had to learn that way because no one was around to teach him ( a total lie as NV has been making them exactly as he learned from his uncle and exactly as the skill has been passed down for generations.. verified by tribal elders) He promotes himself all the time and even through his publicity won the governors award. He acts like he's this huge big shot and has been teaching non natives how to make a native craft ( illegal) and they have been selling them... again illegal, Plus totally disrespectful to the true artists who have carried this tradition for generations and who are humble. This guy's such an absolute ass!!!! *blinks* *shuts mouth* don't be kind to him, NV what a dumbass @_@

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:33 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:47 PM

LEOPARDFLAN

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:39 PM

FREELANCERTEX

huh. so thats the guy? dumbass. *agrees with RF*

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 8:42 PM

MSA

Yeah it has taken everything I have not to just kill the evil stupid ass... here we have the most incredible native artist ( NV) who works so hard to maintain the craft of his people ( a people who were set upon and decimated by the whites) and he persists in maintaining this tribal craft of decoy making which dates back more than a thousand centuries, He's done so much and yet this worthless ass has taken all the credit...so angry. How dare he. ok trying so hard to be calm and zen... ChrisMoorehead sweety if you have a minute..would you mind terribly shredding them slowly and painfully? Thanks :) HUGS I am trying really hard to just let it go, but I am so angry that the asshole would take a centuries old tradition and co-opt it for his personal monetary gain To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Wednesday, December 24, 2008 3:43 AM

MSA

NVG here, 5AM: It really sucks. We are down to exposure, popularity, and media coverage. Small things really as related to the actual issues, but like many things in the modern world they seem to matter more than the truth. With the right exposure, friends, and media coverage a person can easily manipulate the truth to their benefit. People who backed him (especially the ones with money) would hate to admit being on the wrong side and probably never will. Like I said, if they knew the actual value of his pieces they will be pissed. His work is incredible, but he surely is on par with people not of our persuasion in terms of spirit and credibility. I did have a great idea. It may blow up in my face as people are easily persuaded in terms of notoriety and greed. I may present a resolution before the tribal council aimed toward preservation of tribal arts and traditions. With so few people left to verify true artisans it may be a difficult sell, but I believe in the good intentions I based the idea on. One of the people supporting me has encouraged me to weed out the charlatans and to continue on the way I have been on. Apparently more exposure on my part is not a bad thing. Comparison: It is difficult to compare work, value, and price without sounding like a complete dick. But the truth is this: He is not traditionally trained. He is self taught and did a ton of research, which is commendable, but not acceptable to define as traditional artist. The training I received was the classic apprenticeship tale: braving mud and mosquito, ice and wind, working to all hours of the night just to finish a piece exactly as taught. My first acceptable piece was not ready until ten months after the beginning of my training. Even then it was over a year before I was able to complete a piece and apply my mark. Some of my mentors work has elements of my own work attached. It is impossible for me to find those pieces as the value of his work has prompted people to lock them away. There has been instances where he has taught non-natives how to construct decoys. Literally. And for money. Now, I've seen people demonstrate before allowing observers to try making one themselves. This seems an acceptable practice within limitations. He has clearly gone beyond those limits as a few of those people have made their own and sold them for decor (which is the true value of his work). It can be understood that he puts a considerable amount of time into his work. But the materials are free, he doesn't work so he has plenty of time, and the art he pursues is a dead art with no people left to consult as to it's actual construction and spirit. He has devalued his own pieces and made a profit. That is on the edge of being evil as it has devalued the previous makers to which he has no relation. People have bought into that and have been misdirected by him. This is not much different than using magic to hurt people. It is wrong and must be accounted for. When I sell a piece or demonstrate it all has a base rate: 30 dollars an hour for decoy work, 60 a day for demonstration, free to consult on matters related to the work, work of previous makers, and pondering on native art. I don't charge the tribe when they ask me to work with the kids during the summer recreation program. I take the afternoon off as not to be paid for that time. They do offer a stipend to cover my fuel for collection of material and lunch. It has been told to me by several people that others (including Mr Williams) have charged a few hundred dollars a day. Why do this? it totally devalues the work of both the artist and the children. To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Wednesday, December 24, 2008 4:17 AM

MSA

Continued: The guide lines I was sworn to follow: Never work while drinking. My mentor was an alcoholic and hated himself for doing so. He had too many emotional issues that seemed to get in the way of his work excelling. He didn't want those limits to hinder me. Learn to speak and write well. His grandparents had problems relating to the people studying them Though certain concepts are lost in translation, the spirit of those things can be sealed in the words we say and write. Never teach non-natives and consider only teaching people of the Stillwater Marsh. Any sweatshop can set up a decoy production and pass them off as Native art. Though there are now laws protecting the true traditional arts, there will always be some people looking for more money rather than applying the true concept of the art; survival. Keep your prices as low as possible. It allows everyone a chance to buy a piece and gives the maker much needed practice. The true value of the decoys is utility, not aesthetics. To this I have to add: Embrace confrontation. Demonstration of the work speaks for itself. There will always be people trying to discount a makers work and credibility. A true maker has nothing to hide and is open with the people who question them. This is a primitive concept usually not requiring translation or explanation. After being told stories of people watching me work and noting to others that the way I work is how it has been done before me is a huge honor. Having been over a year since I first heard this I am still in a state of shock. For me there is no greater praise than hearing that I do the work and I do it correctly. The final form of the decoy is this: http://contentdm.library.unr.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/spphot os&CISOPTR=498&CISOBOX=1&REC=1 I have never had the courage to make one until now. They are the tule body with an actual duck skin stretched over it. The ultimate decoy, it is responsible for the survival of the Stillwater people. I think this may be the time to make them. People outside of museums have never seen them. I think some people question my intentions. But few people understand the weight people like me carry. Ancient ways being exploited, on the edge of death... Naw, there's no reason to be so fired up and passionate. Thanks for reading folks. It is almost 6:30Am and I just needed to purge some info. I also didn't feel like writing all this down just to lose it later. Merry Christmas To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Wednesday, December 24, 2008 6:32 AM

FREELANCERTEX

that was a very CK-esque post ;) and I think you have a very valid point. that guy seems more lame by the second >< that decoy's amazing btw.

Wednesday, December 24, 2008 6:57 AM

MSA

MsA here... Well said NV You really should see him demonstrate. It's amazing to watch To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Wednesday, December 24, 2008 7:36 AM

FREELANCERTEX

i'd love to see him demonstrate. i love building/constructing/making things, so i'd probably be like hovering over his shoulder annoyingly just *staring* O_O without blinking until he was done XD (is a fan of the "how its made" show on Discovery ;) )

Wednesday, December 24, 2008 1:59 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Wednesday, December 24, 2008 2:34 PM

GORRAMGROUPIE

Me too FLT! NVG, I hope you can impress on this guy how what he is doing impacts others. It's like the commercials for the rolling heater, made by the "Amish", yet in the commercial they show tools and techniques that true Amish wouldn't use (ie nail gun), trying to capitalize on the reputation the Amish have. It does devalue and trivialize the true craftsperson. 'Who are you and how did you get in here?' 'I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' Police Squad

Wednesday, December 24, 2008 4:37 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD

NVG, MSA, Thank you both for your concern. Right now, though, things are taking a dramatically different direction for me. I can't go into it, but I appriciate your thoughts. That is a hell of a thing about the duck maker. I don't want to take the spotlight off of your plight, but people do this stuff all the time to promote their BS. There's a guy named Tom Brown... I don't like to sling mud, especially since I don't have any proof, but he claims he teaches tracking based off of the teachings from a friend's Native American grandfather. Thing is I've heard inconsistencies in his re-telling of certain stories. Nevermind the number of "authentic" edged weapons out there, or "Ninja Grandmasters". People have been shamming for a long time, and in my opinion the capitalist trade system promotes pretenders to the throne. I am sorry that your culture is being shamed by this guy, especially since he appears to be of the same blood. Hopefully he will be exposed for what he is. Happy Holidays, by the way. Ride down from Asgard to the battlefield, Bringer of the valiant dead who died but never yielded, Carry we who die in battle over land and sea, Across the rainbow bridge to Valhalla, Odin's waiting for me.

Wednesday, December 24, 2008 4:52 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Wednesday, December 24, 2008 4:54 PM

FREELANCERTEX

Quote: Originally posted by NVGhostRider: (from RWED) First off, "The People" are armed to keep the government from ruling with jack boots much the way the founding fathers fought the monarchy of England thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaank yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooou ^_^ loved ur post btw.

Wednesday, December 24, 2008 7:08 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Thursday, December 25, 2008 12:28 PM

FREELANCERTEX

lolz, they just don't like that you're disagreeing with them @_@ people are touchy about that sort of thing. lolz, revolutarific? XD awesome

Thursday, December 25, 2008 3:16 PM

MSA

Ah the perfect Christmas.. a whole day with nothing to do but enjoy.. had mimosas and snacks all day. I relaxed and enjoyed my books and NV has been playing Wii. This day ROCKS!!! Best Christmas ever:) Oh and this morning when we got up it was snowing beautifully. Then it stopped so roads are nice and clear To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Friday, December 26, 2008 5:34 AM

MSA

morning all.... so tired, but yesterday was really nice How has everyone's holiday been? To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Friday, December 26, 2008 7:22 AM

GORRAMGROUPIE

Holiday was great, other than having to work, but at least I work from home, so I was around to interact at least. We have a ton of snow to shovel at work, but it sure looks nice out. 'Who are you and how did you get in here?' 'I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' Police Squad

Friday, December 26, 2008 8:40 AM

MSA

HUGS that's great Gorram To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Friday, December 26, 2008 2:13 PM

AG05

Well, that was a fun holiday, the first I've spent with family in a coupla years. The fact that I've been back living with my parents (gorram ruttin' hurricanes) made it a bit less special and a bit more "Please let me come back to work, I'm gong nuts!!" I picked up a few revolver accessories for my dad, jewelry for mom, and money for my sisters iPod-replacement fund. I was well pleased with my Christmas goodie haul as well I got Firefly on DVD, a few rifle bits, and a new Safariland holster. I did, however make the mistake of telling 3 people that I wanted a brown coat (guess why?) for Christmas. I was not really expecting to get one. Instead, I am now the proud owner of 2 brown Carhartt jackets and, courtesy of a buddy who likes Wild West/Single Action shooting, a dark brown, ankle length duster. So I'm an all-weather browncoat now. Life is good. Hope everybody had a lovely holiday, and I hope everyone recovers enough to go back to work Monday. Mercy is the mark of a great man. Guess I'm just a good man. Well, I'm alright.

Friday, December 26, 2008 2:33 PM

MSA

Sounds like a great Christmas for you:) That's fab:) To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:03 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Saturday, December 27, 2008 12:00 PM

MSA

Not today... you're sick ( NV has a terrible sinus infection and cough...) To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Saturday, December 27, 2008 4:36 PM

VERSEEXPLORER

Quote: Originally posted by MsA: Not today... you're sick ( NV has a terrible sinus infection and cough...) I know you are taking good care of him. I hope he feels better soon. Chrismoorhead, congratulations on getting married. Best wishes in the future.

Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:56 PM

FREELANCERTEX

pheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew. ok, i just reformatted my comp (those of u who have visited the bar will know why) and mcafee's bein a bitch and not letting me reinstall it, but i have spybot which is an antispyware/malware program. the ponder I have for all of you is: what antivirus/firewall/security program can i download so I can protect my comp? *doesnt have the money to re-up mcafee, as they want 70 bucks for a year*

Sunday, December 28, 2008 10:35 AM

MSA

Not a clue FLT I have a MacBook... we're not the same as you PC people...giggle HUGS and I hope you get your comp fixed:) HUGS Hi Vex... yeah I am fussing over him and fixing him food and giving backrubs and such...( which is what he does when I'm sick) To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:23 PM

FREELANCERTEX

nvm i got the other stuff to work by uninstalling mcafee ^_^ i hate paid subscriptions @_@

Monday, December 29, 2008 8:01 AM

MSA

NVG Here: You hate paid subscriptions? Even your subscriptions to Tarts and Juggs? To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Monday, December 29, 2008 8:10 AM

KELKHIL

Monday, December 29, 2008 8:37 AM

FREELANCERTEX

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!! *running-glomps Kel* UR BACK!!!! yeah i was trying to load AVG but for some reason it wouldn't let me, which is why i posted said question >< played around with settings and installers for a bit and finally got AVG to work. I'm with you, i refuse to pay for antivirus protection @_@ NV: ha. ha.

Monday, December 29, 2008 12:46 PM

MSA

yeah he is , on occasion hilarious OK back to sick time To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Tuesday, December 30, 2008 5:04 AM

FREELANCERTEX

lol nice one.

Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:09 AM

MSA

ok we're gonna need a new thread soon...haven't the energy to do it right now...maybe later To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Tuesday, December 30, 2008 11:11 AM

FREELANCERTEX

Aw. How's NV doin btw? Here's an imponder: why the hell won't software that works for everyone else on the globe work on my computer?

Tuesday, December 30, 2008 12:20 PM

MSA

He's finally starting to seem a tiny bit better...still bad cough and snuffles but the fever is finally going down. My snuffles remain annoying Because FLT you have the evil Vista... get a Mac...come on you know you want o To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

Tuesday, December 30, 2008 5:16 PM

FREELANCERTEX

i dont have vista i have XP :D and i *hate* Macs. besides this software is for microsoft products, so theres no reason it shouldnt work lolz, cept that it doesnt like me apparently XD ha. i laugh at the ness. i'm bored. ><

Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:31 AM

MSA

NVG here: New Thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=36218 To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others. --Francois Mauriac It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.