Poll: When Crow goes through Serenity's engine... by chrisisall

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
It, like, shocked a laugh out of me.

That's a good reaction.

When Mal said "Darn", I saw something final comin' on my first viewing, but yeah, not something so immediate.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 7:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by leedavidt:

Henchman: Oh, I get it! I'm good. Best thing for everybody. [desperate grin] I'm right there with you.

Twice as funny since Mal didn't mean to be suggesting he'd do the same to him! LOL.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 7:16 AM

Hell, even MAL winces after he does that.

But it is funny, in that it's so anti-climatic after Crow promises to hunt them all down. Even the "Darn" is understated, and it's delivered in a pretty comical way.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 7:27 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

What I loved about it was the setup. Joss completely fooled me. Crow says his bit about "I'll dog you and I'll be everywhere and when you least expect it..." and I rolled my eyes because I thought it was such a cliche, "I thought this Whedon guy was suppose to be different? He's just setting this guy up for guest stardom nirvana, we'll be seeing his mug for the next..." And then whooom!

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Monday, March 2, 2009 7:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
What I loved about it was the setup. Joss completely fooled me. Crow says his bit about "I'll dog you and I'll be everywhere and when you least expect it..." and I rolled my eyes because I thought it was such a cliche, "I thought this Whedon guy was suppose to be different? He's just setting this guy up for guest stardom nirvana, we'll be seeing his mug for the next..." And then whooom!

When I showed Firefly to an outspoken pacifist lady friend of mine, she went like: "Oh, you can't do that, it's murder!" And she thought it was out of character for Mal. I was mildly annoyed, like everyone's making a fuss while this is just an hilarious moment. Truth be told, though, she's probably right. Crow's 'Last thing you'll see is my blade' speech is so incredibly cliche, that killing him is made to feel comical. But this is not exactly the "If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed." Mal, is it?

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, March 2, 2009 8:14 AM

The thing about Mal is... He does have a sense of honor, but time and again we see him forced to twist it or even have to ignore it. It's not out of character: for Mal, it's just a fact of life. Sometimes he may be proud of giving some sumbitch whatfor, but do you really think he's proud of being a thief in general? My impression is he's not.

He says that to Simon, I think, because by that time he's sized up the kind of person Simon is, and feels he can make that promise. It doesn't suggest Mal would extend the same courtesy to someone else; it depends on the circumstance, and whether or not the person is a threat to his crew. He'd like to be able to face every one of his enemies with honor, but it often just doesn't work out that way.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 8:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

It doesn't suggest Mal would extend the same courtesy to someone else

Exactly.
And it's not murder- it's self defense. Crow admitted to fully intending to carry out an illegal act of ending someone, Mal just skipped the red tape. It can happen on the frontier, y'know.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 8:20 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

It's what hooked me on the show. It's what made me sit bolt upright, grab the remote, hit "rewind", and say out loud, "What the...? What the hell did he just DO?!"

That was the moment I went from being, "Eh, this is kind of okay... I guess I can sit through a few more before giving up on it..." to "I have to see what happens next, because there's no way you can figure out what this guy's going to throw at you!"

I'd say my reaction was similar to others': shocked amusement - that out-of-the-blue unexpected out-of-character thing that tells you you're in for one hell of a ride.

Mike

If you're going to assume anything, assume you're wrong.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 8:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
The thing about Mal is... He does have a sense of honor, but time and again we see him forced to twist it or even have to ignore it. It's not out of character: for Mal, it's just a fact of life. Sometimes he may be proud of giving some sumbitch whatfor, but do you really think he's proud of being a thief in general? My impression is he's not.

He says that to Simon, I think, because by that time he's sized up the kind of person Simon is, and feels he can make that promise. It doesn't suggest Mal would extend the same courtesy to someone else; it depends on the circumstance, and whether or not the person is a threat to his crew. He'd like to be able to face every one of his enemies with honor, but it often just doesn't work out that way.

Well, we certainly know Mal isn't exactly the perfect hero all the time. So I agree that your assessment holds true for Mal, in general. Still, my point kinda was that Crow's death is made to be funny, while maybe it really was a bit uncalled for. Even for Mal. I mean, the Captain let Niska live, after all, and he done much, much worse to Mal than spouting off some silly, hopelessly transparent bad-guy rethoric, like Crow did.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, March 2, 2009 8:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
I mean, the Captain let Niska live,

LOL, I wouldn't call it "letting him live", as much as "unable to kill."

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 8:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
I mean, the Captain let Niska live,
LOL, I wouldn't call it "letting him live", as much as "unable to kill."

What do you mean? Mal had broken free, gets up and asks Niska: "You wanna meet the real me now?" Niska on the floor, cowering against a wall. Clearly Niska -- a rather old man, sans the aide of his henchmen -- is helpless at the time. I thought, in fact, this was one of that show's highlights, that, where you least expect it, Mal DOES show his real self.

P.S. Mal doesn't kill the Operative either (when they're fighting at Mr. Universe's place). And the Operative had given him plenty reason, too.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, March 2, 2009 8:40 AM

COZEN

Given what I (we) know about The Train Job being the second pilot, my take on Crow's demise is exactly equivalent to the moment where Reynolds, without hesitation, puts a bullet into Dobson's eye in order to bring about a fast solution to both River's being a captive and the more pressing need to get the boat in the air soonest, what with the Reaver ship bearing down on Reynold's crew. In TTJ, they needed to be flyin' before the locals changed their minds about letting Serenity's crew fly free, and before Nishka sent around backup mercenaries.

If the audience didn't understand that Mal is a man of action in the pilot Serenity, they surely figured it out when he gave Crow the boot in The Train Job.

I'm impressed that Whedon/Minear, given that they needed to give us this crucial character development, managed to portray it in such diverse contexts.

I'm even more impressed that they managed to create such a fine shock moment to describe an aspect of Reynold's character over just one weekend -- which, to my understanding, is the time frame given to write the second pilot.

Dollhouse needs a 'Crow through the engine moment', one that rivets the audience to Echo's special, uncompromising nature. Don't y'all agree?

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Monday, March 2, 2009 8:46 AM

The Mal who kicks Crow through the engine is the same Mal who siccs an entire fleet of Reavers on the Alliance waiting on Mr. Universe's moon.

Most of those Alliance soldiers had no idea what was going on, had never heard of River Tam or Miranda, had no real way to defend themselves, and sure as hell weren't given any warning.

Even if you hate the Alliance, Reavers aren't something you'd wish on your worst enemy. Mal did what he had to then out of pure survival and necessity. There wasn't anything honourable about it.

Mal is, if anything, inconsistent at best. The only thing that saves him from hypocrisy is that he really is trying to live up to his own ethical and moral standards.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 8:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
I mean, the Captain let Niska live,
LOL, I wouldn't call it "letting him live", as much as "unable to kill."

What do you mean?

I MEAN, if the bodyguard hadn't saved Niska, Mal would have pounded him TO DEATH.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 9:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
The Mal who kicks Crow through the engine is the same Mal who siccs an entire fleet of Reavers on the Alliance waiting on Mr. Universe's moon.

To keep it in perspective, first they sicc an entire Alliance fleet on Mal's one bitty boat!

Quote:

Most of those Alliance soldiers had no idea what was going on, had never heard of River Tam or Miranda, had no real way to defend themselves, and sure as hell weren't given any warning.

No real way to defend themselves?? You're working this deal all crabbed! They come at Mal with gorram high-tech Alliance crap, a whole fleet no less. And what does Mal got? Can't the purple-belly yokels even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it? All Mal does here is even the odds a bit. Boo-hoo on the Alliance.

Quote:

Mal did what he had to then out of pure survival and necessity. There wasn't anything honourable about it.

Nor anything particularly dishonorable, for that matter. Devising a clever strategy against a whole fleet ain't exactly on par with shoving a man thru an engine -- a man who had his hands tied behind his back, no less.

And there weren't any immediate hurry, in terms of fearing Niska might send reinforcements, as they first went all the way back to town to return the stolen medicine.

As for Dobson, he threatened his crew -- not just in word; and took a young girl hostage, to boot. At that point we simply know his life is forfeit.

But, on a whole, I maintain that Mal is not given to killing folks unnecessarily.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, March 2, 2009 9:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
a man who had his hands tied behind his back, no less.

He renounced his person-hood and declared himself a mindless weapon.
He gambled on Mal's goody-two-shoes nature & his ability to be intimidated, and lost.
Ida done the same as Mal.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 9:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I MEAN, if the bodyguard hadn't saved Niska, Mal would have pounded him TO DEATH.

Nope, can't say that I see it that way. He had AMPLE time to kill Niska afterwards; and in his cargo-bay conversation with Inara Mal makes it very clear he made a CHOICE to let him live:

INARA: I just wish you had killed that old bastard!
MAL: Well, I got regret on that score my own self.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, March 2, 2009 9:39 AM

And I agree: I don't think Mal kills if it's not necessary. Or he tries not to, anyway.

Extending that argument... How was Crow's death not necessary? If Mal had left the brute alive, he would have had to deal with him EVENTUALLY. Crow had just sworn against all reason and inspite of Mal's attempts at a peace negotiation to hunt Mal and his crew down if left alive. What other option did Mal have?

As for my previous post, I don't like the Alliance any more than anyone else does. They tend to either be bastards, or ignorant. But if it came down to being blown up versus being raped and/or (simultaneously) flayed to death, I think one of those options is a whole lot fluffier of a way to die. What Mal brings upon those Alliance soldiers is pretty much unspeakable. He does it because he has no other choice, and we accept his actions because of that.

Look at it this way: if there'd have been a feasible alternative to bringing Reavers down on the Alliance, and Mal had gone ahead anyway... What would be your impression of what he did? Still justified on account of all the nameless Alliance stooges in his way? Or a horrific way to kill a lot of people?

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Monday, March 2, 2009 9:42 AM

I think Mal was referring to regreting not having the chance, there. Niska got away before Mal could kill him.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 9:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:

Nope, can't say that I see it that way. He had AMPLE time to kill Niska

Y'all can see it how ya like, Asarian.

I JUST watched it to be sure- Mal was tryin' his hardest to end that creep, he just didn't have enough time or strength. Watch it again & you'll see I'm right.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 9:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
What Mal brings upon those Alliance soldiers is pretty much unspeakable.

You're far too nice, Bytemite. You sign up with the Alliance, you should know it's history (as much as is possible), and you gotta see the duplicitous nature of the peeps in charge. I shed no tears for them.

Ever see the "Clerks" conversation about sub-contractors on the Death Star? Same thing.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 9:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
And I agree: I don't think Mal kills if it's not necessary. Or he tries not to, anyway.

Extending that argument... How was Crow's death not necessary? If Mal had left the brute alive, he would have had to deal with him EVENTUALLY. Crow had just sworn against all reason and inspite of Mal's attempts at a peace negotiation to hunt Mal and his crew down if left alive. What other option did Mal have?

To me, Crow was just loud-mouthing. Big guy on his knees, his ego just couldn't handle that. But that doesn't necessarily constitute a credible threat. I mean, since when is Crow in charge of Niska's skyplex? After all, he's just a guy who stands at the door and likes to say ""Boo!" :) I doubt Niska just lets his henchmen go off on a personal vendetta whenever they feel like it. It was clear, however, that eventually Mal would have to deal with Niska. And I believe even Mal knew that at the time. That, certainly, was a real threat. Killing Crow, however, did not alleviate that threat (perhaps even only hastened it).

Quote:

What Mal brings upon those Alliance soldiers is pretty much unspeakable. He does it because he has no other choice.

Indeed, their fate would be gruesome. But, like you say, what other options does he have? He can't just assemble a civilized counter-fleet. I ain't saying that being an Alliance soldier equals signing up to be a banquet. But they did want Mal dead first, with a powerful will. And sometimes your enemy fights back.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, March 2, 2009 10:11 AM

Did Simon know, before his sister was put through the ringer? Did Inara?

There's a whole lot of Alliance patriotism in the core. None of those people are necessarily bad. They just don't know what's really going on.

All of the Alliance grunts? The crews of the ships? They had no idea why they were there. The information on their mission was classified. The only people who knew more than just the names and rough description of Serenity's crew were the Operative and possibly the ship commanders, if he had informed them. And even Miranda had been concealed from the Operative. How much information did any of the Alliance military involved in that blockade have? I'm guessing not a lot, and I'm also guessing they had enough trust and faith in their government that they didn't ask.

So, in my opinion, those Alliance grunts, for supporting their government, are about as guilty and deserving of death as Inara and Simon. Which is to say, not at all.

I'm not saying it's not what Mal had to do. I'm just saying it's unfortunate. And it's also a good example of Mal having to do something for the sake of survival that in any other situation would be really distasteful and very immoral.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 10:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Y'all can see it how ya like, Asarian. I JUST watched it to be sure- Mal was tryin' his hardest to end that creep, he just didn't have enough time or strength. Watch it again & you'll see I'm right.

I just watched it again, too. :) Pulled up the shooting script for the occassion as well. It describes Mal's mood as "(deadly)" as he stumbles towards Niska. Hmm.

That little cargo-bay exchange between Inara and Mal, about him regretting not having killed the old bastard, surprisingly isn't actually in the shooting script. Wonder why Joss, aparently, then added that scene later. However the case may be, I would be kinda disappointed if it turns out Mal really wanted to kill Niska. I've always read the whole scene as Joss letting us believe Mal was gonna kill him for sure, but then, in a Jossian twist, doesn't do so. And after Dalin falls into that shaft, I still don't see why Mal couldn't have killed Niska at that time.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, March 2, 2009 10:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
And after Dalin falls into that shaft, I still don't see why Mal couldn't have killed Niska at that time.

Two words.
Niska.
Gone.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 10:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

So, in my opinion, those Alliance grunts, for supporting their government, are about as guilty and deserving of death as Inara and Simon. Which is to say, not at all.

So that's to say you DIDN'T see that conversation in "Clerks," eh?

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 10:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:

To me, Crow was just loud-mouthing. Big guy on his knees, his ego just couldn't handle that. But that doesn't necessarily constitute a credible threat.

Bad call, A. Best to take a man at his word, especially after he's just planted a weapon into ya.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 11:03 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Mal was just establishing his reputation.

"Do you know what a reputation is?
It's people talking, gossip, it's
not... to hold, touch it, you
can't. Now I also have reputation, not so
pleasant, I think you know. Crow.

You see this man, he does not do the job.
I show you what I do with him and now, my
reputation for you is fact, is... solid."

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Monday, March 2, 2009 11:10 AM

ZEEK

I laughed a lot when Crow got kicked into the engine and went "now this show might be alright". It was a good moment.

Also, I think Mal would have killed Niska easily. He just didn't have a chance. Once Niska got away they probably took Mal and got the heck out. I'm sure they didn't kill everybody on the space station. So, they were still in danger.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 11:10 AM

I've seen it. That's not to say I agree with the assertion that everyone working under the Galactic Empire knew what their superiors were all about. You'd think they'd have gotten a clue when Palpatine suspended the Senate, but I guess they've never heard of Rome in a galaxy far, far away. And people can be stupid about their government, especially if the government is careful about not teaching anyone to question their lines. Propaganda and politics are powerful tools, hooks that most people swallow without a second thought. It's all about control.

In the specific case of workers contracted for the Death Star, okay. They probably had some engineers on board and could have figured out they were building a super-powered planet destroying weapon. There's really no good reason for anyone to wield that kind of firepower. And the storm troopers STATIONED on the Death Star could probably figure out it's more than a space station too.

But some storm trooper stationed on a Star Destroyer patrolling the busy busy space lanes of nowhere, called to an equally nowhere moon for some sort of fugitive intercept mission? They wouldn't have a clue.

Remember, Han Solo was a storm trooper until he got kicked out for saving Chewbacca from slavery. And Tycho Celchu was an Imperial Pilot, until Alderaan was destroyed and he put two and two together.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

Remember, Han Solo was a storm trooper until he got kicked out for saving Chewbacca from slavery.

That's news to me.

B, governments are evil, and the bigger the government, the bigger the evil. It has always been so. Show me a happy Alliance soldier, and I'll show you either a lucky peep never put in a bad position, or a stupid idiot.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 11:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I think Mal would have killed Niska easily. He just didn't have a chance. Once Niska got away they probably took Mal and got the heck out. I'm sure they didn't kill everybody on the space station. So, they were still in danger.

Zactly.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 11:33 AM

Definitely. Big governments are scary, and not to be trusted.

But look at US soldiers. Nothing against them, but they tend to think the US government is awesome, infallible, always right, never abuses it's power, etc. etc. They have absolute faith in whatever mission they're given. They're proud in their country, proud of themselves, and proud of their service.

Not to say I don't think some good has come of US soldiers, but I think that mindset is a little naive.

It's also VERY common.

Why would Alliance soldiers be any different, or know any better?

These aren't bad people. They've just been blinded by spindoctors and history books. Or, sometimes, shiny guns, the "glory of battle," and testosterone.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
they tend to think the US government is awesome, infallible, always right, never abuses it's power, etc. etc. They have absolute faith in whatever mission they're given.

That's a rather broad generalization I can dispel with a few quotes from peeps I know who were in Iraq.

There were lots who just tried to do their best despite realizing that Iraq was a pet project as opposed to an absolute necessity.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 11:45 AM

Well, sure, once you get there and it's obvious it's one big underplanned screw-up, you change your mind a bit. But what did they think BEFORE they went?

If they were against going into Iraq, colour me impressed. Again, nothing against them, I'm just saying the average soldier, just like the average citizen, doesn't really question their government.

Perhaps the average soldier even more-so, because of the looming threat of a court-martial if they snoop too much.

And I can say definitely that those opposed to going into Iraq from the beginning were the exception, not the rule.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Well, sure, once you get there and it's obvious it's one big underplanned fuck-up, you change your mind a bit. But what did they think BEFORE they went?

One I knew said it was a tactical waste, but said he was going to mainly watch his friends backs.

Quote:
I'm just saying the average soldier, just like the average citizen, doesn't really question their government.

I see what you're saying here.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 12:05 PM

That's a pretty admirable reason. Sad, but admirable.

Now, the people who DO know better? The people who send the soldiers who trust in them off to die, who design and sell super weapons to people with no respect for human life? The unethical experimenters? The torturers? Those who think they're doing what's best for the country, or the just plain sadistic money grubbing bastards?

Let 'em all rot in prison. The ends don't justify the means, as they say, and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 12:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

Let 'em all rot in prison.

Better idea: Let 'em fight for their country.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 1:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by cozen:

Dollhouse needs a 'Crow through the engine moment', one that rivets the audience to Echo's special, uncompromising nature. Don't y'all agree?

I agree, and I'll bet we get it.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 2:10 PM

NCBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by cozen:
Given what I (we) know about The Train Job being the second pilot, my take on Crow's demise is exactly equivalent to the moment where Reynolds, without hesitation, puts a bullet into Dobson's eye in order to bring about a fast solution to both River's being a captive and the more pressing need to get the boat in the air soonest, what with the Reaver ship bearing down on Reynold's crew. In TTJ, they needed to be flyin' before the locals changed their minds about letting Serenity's crew fly free, and before Nishka sent around backup mercenaries.

If the audience didn't understand that Mal is a man of action in the pilot Serenity, they surely figured it out when he gave Crow the boot in The Train Job.

I'm impressed that Whedon/Minear, given that they needed to give us this crucial character development, managed to portray it in such diverse contexts.

I'm even more impressed that they managed to create such a fine shock moment to describe an aspect of Reynold's character over just one weekend -- which, to my understanding, is the time frame given to write the second pilot.

Dollhouse needs a 'Crow through the engine moment', one that rivets the audience to Echo's special, uncompromising nature. Don't y'all agree?

I agree. The moment that got me was shooting Dobson, but Crow through the engine I had a second of shock (again?) and a nervous twitter. It convinced me that in this show Joss would be coming from left field more than once.

I do hate to say it but Dollhouse has been rather boring for me. I just can't get into it and it does need a "Crow through the engine" moment.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

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Monday, March 2, 2009 3:02 PM

FREELANCERTEX

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall: Do you cheer & hoot, or do your eyes widen in squirming awe?

I start laughing. XD first time i saw it i thought it was effing great :P laugh harder when they bring the next guy in and Mal starts saying the sme thing to him though

yeah, dollhouse needs a Crow moment.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 4:33 PM

PLATONIST

I'm probably the most pacifistic Browncoat around, but Mal shooting Dobson and kicking Crow into the engine at least prompted me to evaluate the necessity of taking life in order to survive in a frontier culture. The moral ethical position is really left up to the viewer to decide. I like that. Joss said antihero, didn't he?

I've always wondered if Kaylee and Inara knew about Crow's fate and if it was discussed openly. For some reason I think Wash, Jayne, Book, and
Simon know, but not, like Zoe says, the women.

And I don't know what, but Dollhouse needs something. I've nodded off twice. It's putting me to sleep and my husband's not too happy about it because Friday Night is his lucky night and I don't mean at poker. And the DVR is full of Jonas Bros stuff from Disney. Did someone say Hula?

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Monday, March 2, 2009 4:58 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:

I'm probably the most pacifistic Browncoat around, but Mal shooting Dobson and kicking Crow into the engine at least prompted me to evaluate the necessity of taking life in order to survive in a frontier culture. The moral ethical position is really left up to the viewer to decide. I like that. Joss said antihero, didn't he?

I've always wondered if Kaylee and Inara knew about Crow's fate and if it was discussed openly. For some reason I think Wash, Jayne, Book, and
Simon know, but not, like Zoe says, the women.

And I don't know what, but Dollhouse needs something. I've nodded off twice. It's putting me to sleep and my husband's not too happy about it because Friday Night is his lucky night and I don't mean at poker. And the DVR is full of Jonas Bros stuff from Disney. Did someone say Hula?

Couple things.

1) Can you have a chat with my wife? ;)

2) You kick anything through one of Kaylee's engines, and she's gorram-sure gonna know about it. Better just up 'n' tell her about it up front; no use tryin' to hide it.

3) Not HuLA, HuLU. hulu.com. Check 'em out. Lots of show, very few commercials (and the ones they do have are really, really short). I relied on Hulu when Time Warner pulled NBC's signal off our cable last year. It was the only way I was able to keep up with Chuck, Heroes, Life, 30Rock, The Office, etc.

Mike

If you're going to assume anything, assume you're wrong.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 5:09 PM