Why not now fight for a animated firefly show? by Ads

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Why not now fight for a animated firefly show?

POSTED BY: ADS
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 28, 2024 14:25
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Monday, March 16, 2009 10:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CellarDoor:

Settling for small, fan-made projects can be a temporary fix, but that's not what I yearn for: more canon material. Big projects DO help me dream big. I'm grateful for the link to the EV Nova mod, and I might actually check that out, since I used to play EV Nova anyway... It's not official material though. Are we at the end of official material? I'm not ready to say we are, but I don't know that the timing is right just yet.

I think the problem that people (most people) don't see is the long game. We aren't here fighting for something just around the corner with Joss on our side, etc, etc, etc, like way back when, when there was the chance of the movie. It's exactly this "we are mighty" talk that makes us look high maintenance, whiny, etc. It's our Achilles’ heel.

Where the community sits right now is a very bad place. The movie and all related products have barely recouped costs. So, with a diminished community, these companies are certainly not going to create anything for us any time soon. What we need to do is to show them that we are an active community and a low maintenance one as well. Not to mention a lot of us. That's where the small projects come in.

What those will do is keep people around longer. It'll make us look active, because we will be. In the longer term, there might even be enough people that are sticking around to attempt larger projects. Once that is done, and the community is large and active again, then it might be time to start poking around and seeing if there is a chance at some more canon material. Especially, if those people sticking around are spending cashy money showing the corps that we will indeed purchase what is made.

But, sending letters, etc pleading for more makes us look bad. Especially, if there is only a couple people doing it. We don't want that and we certainly don't need it. We have a poor enough reputation as it is.

What we need to do is play the long game. And that requires a very different strategy than this community is used to.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Monday, March 16, 2009 10:34 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

If Sigmanunki just doesn't want to see projects fail, and that's the point we ALL agree on, I just don't want to see them fail before they're even born. And I don't think it's a waste for anyone or for resources to support higher profile projects. Could be that's naive. But that's what I want to believe.

Well, if you look around the 'net, the BC community has a lot of dead projects. And that doesn't look very good for a variety of reasons. Fortunately, they weren't high profile so no-one really knows they are there.

But, what if we put our resources into an, at best, risky project. One risky project. The risk analysis just doesn't add up. But, if one puts those resources into a number of diverse small projects, then something is likely to succeed and hopefully many.

That's something that can be built on. So, rinse repeat. Maybe one day that'll lead to larger projects, maybe it won't. But, at least that way, there'll be a chance.

It's the long game that counts now.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Monday, March 16, 2009 10:35 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by CellarDoor:

Sigma IS being rational, but I sense a battle-weariness there too, all too fitting for a Browncoat in many ways. I guess an army (to continue the metaphor) needs all ranks to properly function. Kinda saddens me to think about all the dashed dreams these forums have seen. *sighs to ponder and thinks better of too much introspection late at night* Hmm... *grabs a pint of mudder's milk*

I think you'd be surprised how far I'm still willing to go. It just has to be for something that's likely to succeed. In fact, there's an idea that's been kicking around my head lately. But, I'll probably need help and that help would be in the form of another programmer or two. Doesn't seem to be any others around these parts...

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Monday, March 16, 2009 10:40 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

When I spoke to GB about this he said it is basically a matter of opinion and he is very right.Some people lean one way others lean another. GB is confident he could pull it off and others are certain he can't. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

My point is that the atmosphere won't be the same. Looking at his animation style and this is trivial. So, it won't be Firefly nor Serenity. It will be very different.

I honestly believe that you are grasping at the things that verify what you want, and give little weight to those things that don't. That doesn't make for a realistic picture.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

Animation either will or won't be good.

My opinion on his style is that, because it isn't detailed enough, won't get the level of subtly needed to be Firefly/Serenity. So, basing it on the criteria of, will it be FF/S, it won't be good.

Btw, I should mention I've seen his work in motion. I think that there is a link to it in the archives the last time this was brought up. Whether that link goes anywhere now is a good question.

But, I got to ask: why isn't anyone asking GB for a sample of his work in motion?

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

Some fans will be on board, some won't be on board. Some might be open minded enough to change their point of view.

I'm not sure if you're meaning to be as arrogant as this quote reads. Because, are you serious? I mean, open-minded enough to change there point of view?!?!? Because, it's guaranteed to be that great, right?

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

There might or there might not be legal problems.
I don't know anything for a certainty and I acknowledge that.

There will be legal problems. That's a guarantee. It might just be the typical, stalling and arguing over rights, how much input Fox/Universal get, etc. Or, and the MMO showed this to be the most likely, it'll be a dead lock between Fox and Universal effectively killing the project. That is assuming that both companies are even willing to entertain it. And given the "profits" for every FF/S product to date, that is unlikely.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

To be honest I think Sigmanunki is closer to the mark when it comes to the liklyhood that this wont get the amount of fan support it needs. But I think that GB is closer to the mark that if this did have the fan support it will work. But thats just my opinion and everyone is entitled to one.

Thanks, but you're aware that the second point is moot without the first, right?

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

Something I would like to directly comment on though is when he asked how we could reach every firefly fan. There are probably a few ways but I already know the best one(that doesn't include any expense). Unfortunatly it is both extremely easy and very difficult. Ironically the power to make many thousands of Firefly fans who might be open to Firefly animation aware of it is in the hands of a few firefly fans who are likely not as open to animation.

And that very specific idea would be...

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

Its good to see others are supportive of this idea but I especially liked what Asarian semi quoted and it was something similar to what I would have posted on this board myself if this idea ultimatly fails(we are only just getting started though).

Quote:
"Apparently you've been pushed to the losing side of this argument; but I'm still not convinced it's the wrong one."

Well, first you got to show us that animation would even be possible to fully and truly emulate the atmosphere of Firefly or Serenity. And given those screen shots, and what I've seen of GB's work, I'm going say that it's pretty much impossible to do that. But, talk is cheap. I'd like to see GB put his money where is mouth is, as it were.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Monday, March 16, 2009 10:40 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:

I've been around for a long time and I haven't seen any serious discussions about animated Firefly. If there was talk going on around the time of the movie I probably didn't notice because I was more concerned with the movie being a smash hit.

It's in the archives.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:

Personally I like the idea of animated Firefly. I've seen animated shows that are done well. If Firefly was done in a similar fashion I think it could run through at least 3 seasons and get us some closure. IMO that's worth a shot.

I think you're making assumptions about quality and style. Have you looked at GB's screenshots?

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:44 AM

BYTEMITE

Joss came on board because of Eliza, but there isn't anything to have stopped him from seeking to make his own deals before working with Fox again. Considering he's been burned before, I'd think it'd be the smart thing for Joss to do.

Granted, I don't know much to anything about business, and definitely not show business.

I'm not really sure why my "conspiracy theories" are so offensive to you. If you'd like, I could try to keep them to myself when you're around, or likely to post in one of these project threads, since they're when I most often see you posting.

Or you could ignore me.

The letter writing campaigns... Hmm. With the post-cards from save-firefly.org there's really nothing overly whiny about them in concept. I have sneaking suspicions that some fans write on the post card, and comments might then become bitter or possibly pleading. But the post cards themselves, as savefirefly releases them, they seem harmless, unless you count tying up our postal system or something. Generally I think our postal system can handle the volume.

And if some people want to beg for more, I guess that's their prerogative. I don't see how browncoats are so different. I see that kind of behaviour in all fandoms, fans writing to the creators making (sometimes unreasonable) demands. The only difference here is that we've been at it longer when the original source material is dated.

I guess the main argument I have against your suggested project development guidelines is that I haven't seen you suggest anything besides fanfiction and fanart. Both are good, don't get me wrong, and I do a bit of both myself. But the problem is, fanfic and fanart are projects that happen anyways, they're inevitable in a fangroup. As such, fanfics and fanart aren't enough to mobilize any portion of the community into activity, or to promote community or project growth. Just fanfics and fanart, without other projects, will mean stagnancy and decline.

Joss has said in interviews that new canon projects haven't been forthcoming because no one has approached him. This animation company, whether you like their work or not, is proposing just that. For that reason if no other, I view this as a step in the right direction.

Hopes aren't false hopes until the subject being hoped in proves a disappointment. Just how I see it.

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Tuesday, March 17, 2009 2:03 AM

ADS

@ Sigmanuki

For the sake of argument we will say that all the points sigmanuki have made that I don't adress are 100% correct. The ones I do adress however are the ones I consider most relevant and provide the reasons why I personally think it is still wise to support this cause and why I still believe others should too regardless of the other problems he sees.

After reading this thread GB directed me to a link of his live animation which I watched and will link. I personally was impressed with the quality and style of his animation and it also made me look forward to watching the completed project too. But what makes me look forward to watching his feature more is the explanation of the story. It sounds original and interesting and that is what I base my decisions of why I like something, not just on the visuals. Much the same with Firefly. Despite how good GB's work is I don't think it would be wise for any fan to judge this cause based on his work alone(which sigmanuki hasn't done but some fans might) because as I have stated our group is in support of Firefly animation whoever ends up having the privledge to make it and also because I would rather judge Firefly animation based on Firefly animation and not on 'Strange Frame' animation. He might have his own style, but I don't think he will make Mal and co look like the aliens in his clip.

Strange Frame clip: http://strangeframe.com//admin/showFlic.php5?m=192

I also agree that animation wont completely cover every nuance and detail of the original show. Thats very difficult for even the most expensive animation. Live action is better than animation and I will forever regret that we didn't get at least a few seasons of it(and likely now never will otherwise I wouldn't even be here). But what I also know is that allot of the things that I did like about Firefly can still be covered in an animated series and it is more than enough for me to want to see it have a chance. The story, dialog, action, visual refrences and layout in terms of episode and season story arcs can all still be done in animation. You talk about animation not being able to be detailed enough to reach the level of subtltey need to be Firefly and I know exactly what you mean. I know because I had almost the exact same problem with the BDM. It was good, but because it wasn't broken down into episodes it missed allot of what make Firefly kick ass. The detail to the characters and story. In this way, animation can adress that issue better than a live action movie.

GB said he is confident. You could translate this as arrogant but thats one opinion. I don't know how he planned to tackle making this happen(and neither do you) and I don't care anyway. If one animation company wants to try then thats awesome. If they believe its possible then thats even better. If we get heaps of fans joining this group and another company is interesed later then thats awsome too. If no company was interested at all then I would still be here trying to grow this group because all I care about is trying to get enough support to see if someone will consider it.

I don't think we are grasping at pipe dreams or making ourselves look high maitenance mate. All we are doing is joining a group and by that stating that we would be open to animation. It is just a figure to show whoever the amount of fans who are straight away open to animation. Without that figure then this will indeed have no chance of taking off. We are also not stretching our resources. All someone has to do is take fifteen minutes and join the group.

From what I have seen of the legal problems associated with this you make good points. The 'reason' however that I wont give up on this based on that is that I can still hold out the hope that fox and universal can resolve their difference and work out a way to 'mutually' profit. That might not happen. But I don't mind still putting effort in too see if it can. If they try and make Firefly animation and it fails due to legal complications then that will be enough to make me stop hoping for animation. That or the group reaches very high numbers and we still don't get animation.

Animation is much less expensive. That is a fact. So it needs much less people watching it to sustain it. That is a fact. So I try and get people to join a group to see if we can get enough numbers to entice someone. I still don't see the harm in doing that.

Being greedy is fine. Greedy people often get what they want. Also I am assuming that Joss will be involved in this. Not because I know he will want to, but because as I have already said if we get enough numbers to make someone consider this then they will have to also consider that the fans are only supporting animation if Joss is involved(which will be clearly stated once Akshay finishes the group update).

I also don't think it is fair for you to ask me to consider my resistance to what you and to what others are saying. I am openly discussing my reasons for believing in this as well as aknowleding your good points. I could say the same of you but I don't care if you are being resistant to our points because you are constructive to our cause plus I also regret being confrontational in my initial posts.

Three hundred people have joined our group and considering we have only been up for a few weeks it is a great start. Also, so far, the more people that have joined the quicker we seem to grow. Hopefully this trend continues because if it does then reaching the numbers I would like to see is very possible.

I read that post CK wrote. While I see why you linked it I also see reasons why it supports this cause. CK says that it is a problem that the fanbase is not large and has not grown significantly recently. An animated show if succesful would help with growth, especially if it was good. Also if this cause has plenty of support then like the MMO this 'might' be the thing that they try and cash in big on and it might not fail this time. Not to mention that I am assuming there would be more fans supportive of a Firefly show then of a Firefy MMO anyway. Also, if Joss was having creative fatigue then by the time this has generated enough support then he might be fresh again and also a new format and different approach might be just what he needs to play with. It might not be but I would at least like for him to have that option. Also, we are neglecting the points made earlier that animation(or possibly any other fan project) might be whats needed to generate more interest and bring about more live action later(spin of or otherwise).

I do realise that without the fan support that my point of this being possible is moot. Thats why I am trying my best to get the support and prove people like you wrong.

The reason I didn't share my thoughts on how to get this idea out there is because for now it is not productive to my plans to adress the associated difficulties.

Ultimatly it is yours and others choice to be against animation and I do respect that and also recognize your fears(I share some of the same ones). I don't entirely agree with you however and I am sure others don't either. Your camp might be bigger but based on the fans 'currently' active here I have not seen that thats the case and even if it was it wouldn't be enough to stop me from trying.

I just witnessed a random quote from the top of this site that I thought I would add.

"I want this story to continue. Or be reborn. In some -- ANY -- forum. I am, as you all know, in love." - Joss Whedon on bringing back Firefly.

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Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:55 AM

ASARIAN

Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:
@ Sigmanunki: I don't think the legal issues are as unsurmountable as you make them out to be. They're only untakeable obstacles when you try and go against FOX or Universal -- which no sane person would even try and do.

Ask about that from the Multiverse guys. There project would have been mutually beneficial to both Fox and Universal. I forget. What is the status of that project?

Just because something doesn't take off doesn't mean there're unsurmountable legal problems. Soon as either FOX or Universal is interested, you'll find these issues close to gone (after all, sans the 'without their express permission' only stings without their express permission).

All-in-all, I think we can all agree that animation ain't ideal. Still, I wouldn't put fanart, or fanfic, or sending letters to FOX on par with having an actual company interested in making an animated series. Naturally, case like this, it's always easier to argue why it won't work. If I were to apply the term 'open-mindedness' my own self, I would suggest to those who say it can't be done, that you can never really tell with these things. Many publishers told J.K. Rowling that wizardry had been done to death, too. :)

Quote:

Originally posted by Ads:
"I want this story to continue. Or be reborn. In some -- ANY -- forum. I am, as you all know, in love." - Joss Whedon on bringing back Firefly.

Amen.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:58 AM

ZEEK

I see nothing in CK's post that has anything to do with this project actually. I've read her post before and I read it again now. We're not whining to networks here. In fact we're doing exactly what we should be. We're finding someone in the industry who's interested in promoting a project. He can approach Fox and Universal with his project and let them make the decision. That's not an whinny mob of fans sending postcards. That's business as usual.

I'm not going to fear the lawyers. That would be like fearing cancer so much that I just stop breathing. Sure I might die of cancer someday but I'm not dead yet. So, I'm going to live.

I totally disagree about small projects. They might not threaten the executives at Fox and Universal but they kill our community IMO. When regular people see them they think we're a bunch of nerds who dress up in costumes and go to conventions. Which is pretty much the truth in those situations. That's a good way to keep our community small and full of hardcore nerds. If we want to grow we have to appeal to the mainstream. I'd much rather have our community just chill and chat about stuff than show off our nerdiness and scare people off.

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Thursday, July 23, 2009 9:40 PM

MANGOLO

On 'strange frame':

We locked picture on Reel #2 today. This is just a small piece of the animation with the music composition by Shelley. This is not the final music. Just the compositional sketch she did for this piece.

http://www.strangeframe.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Naiasings.
mov

Gina Torres, Laurence Fishburne, and Jewel Staite are likely to play the leads right now. I'll let you know if anything changes.

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Friday, August 16, 2024 5:21 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

before I thought no.... but clearly Hollywood is gone Hollyweird so these days maybe South Korea or a small indie USA or indie Euro studio or maybe Japan cartoon animation studio

Korean Vengeance Miniseries ‘The Tyrant’ Launching on Disney+
https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/korea-miniseries-tyrant-disney-123606
4530/

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Wednesday, August 28, 2024 2:25 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Sam Humphries and Giovanni Fabiano Tell the Origin of Firefly's Zoë

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/sam-humphries-ad-giovanni-fabian-origi
n-firefly-zoe/

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