The Tam Parents by AnotherSky

Have a look at the thread I started on 'The Academy and its students' - still on the front page, just (it didn't go very far). See what Cliosmuse has to say about the original shooting script for Safe - that the Tams may have been under duress. For me that's the best explanation, combined with the other things that some of the other posters mentioned.

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Friday, May 1, 2009 6:06 AM

STEAMER

There's another cutscene from 'Safe' in which they reveal that they're more concerned with supporting the government than they are with looking out for their children. They think the Alliance is so great that they refuse to believe River is in trouble from the government, which as Gabriel says (in cut dialogue) they will stop at nothing to support. He does also say, however, that they have to be careful about how they act, and 'this is about our lives'. Now what does he mean by 'lives'? Does he mean it in the abstract sense that their lives as they know them will come to ruin if they accuse the Feds of hurting River? Or are he and Regan literally afraid for their lives - that if they try to help her, the blue-glove guys will come after them and shut them up?

Being that Gabriel is portrayed as a big-time richbug businessman, my own guess is that his corporation has strong ties to the government - like a defense contractor or a scientific institute. Going toe-to-toe with the government that provides him with much of his work might well mean the loss of his life and/or the work he built it around. It seems like Simon has inherited his sense of devotion since he's every bit as devoted to saving River as Gabriel is to maintaining his standing in the Alliance. It's bastardly of the Tamfolk to be sure, but evil lurks in the hearts of all men (and women for that matter). Where it comes from is anybody's guess - although that old adage 'Power corrupts' may have its place here.

Kaylee cautions
Mal defies 'er
So much for
The catalyser
FIREFLY

Captain of the New England Browncoats
http://www.myspace.com/nebrowncoats

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Friday, May 1, 2009 6:42 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Steamer. Execellent post.

The subject of Blue Sun, The Alliance, and the Academy has long been an interest of mine. I have a lengthy blog post called "What is the Blue Sun Corporation?" that analyses Blue Sun and touches some of these issues from a different angle. Your further analysis adds more value.

I further propose that Book knew many of these things. I believe most strongly that Book was an operative during the Unification War and the layers of evil within the parliment, the nobility, and Blue Sun were somewhat familiar subjects to him. They represent some of the many reasons he left the life of an operative behind to become a shepard.

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Friday, May 1, 2009 6:56 AM

ZEEK

I think we would have seen them again if the show had continued. I think they would not be characters that we end up liking.

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Friday, May 1, 2009 4:20 PM

SCHISM

Some civilian Nazi members were so fiercely loyal to the party that they sold out their own friends and family.

People are essentially retarded at heart.

Strange how two losers could produce two intelligent and NOBLE children.

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Friday, May 1, 2009 4:39 PM

CELLARDOOR

Quote:
Originally posted by Schism:

Strange how two losers could produce two intelligent and NOBLE children.

This was the matter my family raised when I showed them the episode with the Tam parents in it: "Are they just greedy? stupid? How in the heck did two such brilliant children come from such dim-witted or brainwashed parents?" I don't think we came to a conclusion. It does seem like Gabriel's primary motivation was his own image and societal standing, including having the brilliant doctor son he could brag about, but not once Simon threatened that option. Still, very strange, I agree. =\ (not just about the intelligence, but also the nobility you mentioned, Schism)

Comparing Gabriel and Regan to civilians in Germany of that era seems one of the best comparisons I can think of. Not all those people were morons, but they certainly were blinded by their government's promises.

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Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Schism:

Strange how two losers could produce two intelligent and NOBLE children.

Well, selfish parents can produce the most giving kids - because they require the people around them to cater to their needs they train their kids to think of others i.e them, and the kids can transfer this to their relationships with other people. Maybe the Tams were not noble but for some reason they required Simon and River to be. Could be they wanted them to be 'noble' towards them

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Saturday, May 2, 2009 3:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Schism:
Some civilian Nazi members were so fiercely loyal to the party that they sold out their own friends and family.

Same for Soviet Russia, Mao's China - all society's in the grip of mass ideologies. We don't see a mass ideology like this in Firefly. I would have liked to see - if the series had continued - how Joss would have conceived one in the context of the Verse. Personally I see the political ideology as being more analogous to Latin America at the time of the Dirty Wars, where those in power were motivated mainly by greed and hatred of anything that wasn't them (the poor, students, socialists of any shade, and anyone who supported these groups, including of course the Church).

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Saturday, May 2, 2009 7:17 AM

I think it's possible that River and Simon were raised both by the hired help and each other more than they were their parents. It happens a lot in rich families, and children can often end up with different values than their parents.

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Saturday, May 2, 2009 1:09 PM

PLATONIST

I don’t think there is enough canon evidence to judge the Tams as stupid, evil or selfish parents. Certainly not by the scenes in Safe where they are portrayed as willing to provide the best for their children they can afford, the dedicated source box, the dance lessons, etc.

Parents of this social class are competitive in politics, business, and education, that's what their success is based on, and when their done competing at the office, they stage competitive practice for their children through youth sports, selective top rated private schools which have award ceremonies based on achievement, expensive private lessons and so forth. They know the right people. That's what the first scene in Safe is all about; we are essentially at home with the Tams. They represent a typical upper class family in the core.

They were most likely proud as peacocks when their daughter was accepted into the Academy, highly selective and elitists. River probably was rewarded by being taken out to dinner at her favorite sushi restaurant.

Too trusting, naïve, and not questioning the authority which they are partied with is what the Tams are guilty of. They gave up their parental rights too readily, and then out of fear and hypocrisy they were passive, but are lucky Simon was paying attention and willing to question River’s clues, him being top three percent and all. Anything more than that is pure speculation. You can’t always blame Mom and Dad for not paying attention.

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Saturday, May 2, 2009 7:27 PM

Twasn't blaming, just requesting thoughts on what makes them tick. good defense, platonist. Sorry--"selfish" has a rather broad meaning in my family. And it is a possible interpretation.

I like these consistently intelligent and thoughtful replies.

I think the one of the most interesting scenes of characterization for Gabriel is when he hears Simon's been arrested--he goes immediately to get him out and then warns him he will disown him if he "puts a toe out of line" again. you can see how deeply worried he is, but there are a multitude of mixed reasons WHY he could be worried.

Attitudes:
As has been said, effectively,government is out of the picture--the Tam's absolute focus is on the family and their place in society, regardless of that society's larger machinations (ie Blue Sun etc.) I agree about the trust part.
They only recognize things like blackout zones (great name) when they have to, like word dissociation. Someone mentioned Latin America--in some cases quite reminiscent. Literally walls to divide the poor and agitatiors and street scum from the moneyed.

River has a favorite sushi restaurant...now what would she order?...:)

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Saturday, May 2, 2009 7:32 PM

Puffer fish, and she'd warn Simon that it's poisonous.

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Saturday, May 2, 2009 7:45 PM

Ha ha ha ha! He's a doctor...

Oh, the look on Simon's face...yup, she's a brat.

But is she a risk taker? Or has she calculated the physical risk factor (to the .00000001) versus physical enjoyment of the fish and psychological enjoyment of scaring her brother?

Would he be scared?

I don't think Core sushi chefs mess up often though. Especially when doing so could cause paralysis of some very shiny individuals with lots of cashy money.

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Saturday, May 2, 2009 8:05 PM

PLATONIST

Gabriel reacts to his son being in a black out zone as any parent would, by yelling and making empty threats they will never hold to, in other words, he over reacts. The Tams think Simon is cracking under pressure because his arrest for being in such a place is irrational behavior for Simon; he’s a rule follower like his parents. And that’s why they don’t believe him because it doesn’t make sense, its crazy talk and makes Simon look like the village idiot or rather the town psycho. We can’t have that at the Tam Estate now, can we?

Actually, I have River pegged as a Sashimi lover:)

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Saturday, May 2, 2009 8:13 PM

She'd have every intention of freaking out her brother and eating it... Right up until the point she sees what the original fish looks like.

Then she'd sneak some Tuna off of Simon's plate and dispose of her piece discretely.

As for blackout zones, I think that's evidence enough that not all is shiny in the Core worlds with the Alliance. There seems to be some division between the contented and discontented.

It's too bad we'll never see the cut dialogue acted out, if we could, we could know for absolute certain whether Gabriel Tam said the line tense and nervous or was just stressing the livelyhood aspect.

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Sunday, May 3, 2009 9:00 AM

Okay guys, if you're still there, this is something I raised on the post I started about the Academy, and this wasn't a particular point that really got taken up, but I'm picky enough for it to really bother me - WHAT ABOUT HOLIDAYS? Everything that people have suggested here may be true, but don't you think Gabriel and Regan would have expected to see River during SOME break or other? By the time Simon rescues her it's been THREE YEARS! That's a really really long time to not see your kid - to not want to and expect to see your kid - even if they are at some super-elite academy. Surely that only makes sense if there is some level of coercian?

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Sunday, May 3, 2009 9:10 AM

TDBROWN

The next time y'all watch "Safe" hit the pause button on closeups of Gabriel Tam. He has a Phi Beta Kappa key, I believe, but isn't his tietack a Blue Sun Emblem?

"Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." -Mal

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Sunday, May 3, 2009 12:17 PM

PLATONIST

In the pilot, Simon is positive about the Academy when retelling how River was excited about initially attending, like it was a privilege to be accepted. This leads me to believe that the Tams were lied to about the Academy and its real agenda. When reality set in, like her not coming home on breaks and then the Tams not being able to visit her, they became fearful, but stayed compliant where Simon, not so much, he sought help from the underground.

Simon questioned it and Gabriel and Regan chose not to, making Simon the hero of this storyline and the parents’cowards.

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Sunday, May 3, 2009 1:43 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by CellarDoor:
It does seem like Gabriel's primary motivation was his own image and societal standing, including having the brilliant doctor son he could brag about,

Fully agreed.

Quote:

... but not once Simon threatened that option.

Well, indirectly Gabriel's position was threatened, of course, by Simon's behavior (where Gabriel, in his own mind, would sooner or later have to disassociate himself from Simon).

Quote:

Comparing Gabriel and Regan to civilians in Germany of that era seems one of the best comparisons I can think of. Not all those people were morons, but they certainly were blinded by their government's promises.

I don't think it's promises so much which blinded them (after they, they're not exactly in want of promises, since they pretty much already have everything). Rather, I think it's simple denial. If there's a Goverment by, or system in, which you have profited greatly your whole life, it's simply hard to swallow when you find out, one day, that they're actually the bay guys (and worse, that you therefore have basically been on the wrong team, too).

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Sunday, May 3, 2009 6:55 PM

Poor Simon just threatens everyone by existing.
First his father, then Mathias, then Mal, then Jayne...
For such a tentative guy in most situations he's pretty intimidating. :D

TDBROWN: Is that true? Hmm....

Aliasse: I think by the time they realized it was too late--easier to let her stay. Also possibly some parental "if we make a fuss, they'll hurt her anyway" threat.
Just as it was easier to disown Simon--fits with the worldview they have. Simon's crazy behavior can well be interpreted two or more ways depeding on that pov.

Just saw Simon's monologue: none of them had ever heard of this school before. Hmmmm....what does that mean?

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:52 PM

Originally by TDBrown

Quote:
The next time y'all watch "Safe" hit the pause button on closeups of Gabriel Tam. He has a Phi Beta Kappa key, I believe, but isn't his tietack a Blue Sun Emblem?

Anyone check this? I've finally gotten ahold of a DVD set (grand huzzah here) and I'm going to go look.

__

Going for a ride.

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 2:35 PM

For some reason when I reread the scripts for Safe, some line that was cut out, it convinced me that the Tams are aware, and scared out of their minds, and likely under coercion. I don't remember the why anymore, but that's the version I go with now.

If you think about it, the Tams would probably more want their children to go to the best, most well known schools in the verse. It is very strange that they let River go to a school none of them had heard about, but their reactions in the scene in the Safe script don't indicate that they're the ones who betrayed her. Their reactions are more consistent with people under threat but told to act normal.

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 2:39 PM