Inara's secret. by peacekeeper

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Inara's secret.

POSTED BY: PEACEKEEPER
UPDATED: Saturday, June 6, 2009 10:50
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 44187
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Monday, May 4, 2009 1:33 PM

I'm feeling OK except for lack of sleep caused by my seemingly perpetual move from a big old house to a newer, smaller house.

Honestly, I've thought that way about Inara for a long time. And it seemed to gel after seeing the Companion Papers.

I thought about Inara's family in a little fic called "Mal's Cold". She describes her upbringing as a daughter of a Companion to Mal so that he know where she comes from.

I've always been a student of history and about a week ago I was watching a documentary on prostitutes in the West on the History Channel.

Prostitutes were usually the first women that came into a settlement that was almost exclusively male and they paved the way for the "respectable women", wives and families that came after.

But in Inara's case it's a bit reversed. The "respectable women" are already in there but it's the Companion that brings culture and upper class ways and morals.

Must be another of Joss's perverse tweaks at society.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

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Monday, May 4, 2009 1:37 PM

Oh, I agree absolutely. In fact, I would say that what you described is the only way it CAN be.

On western history: I have my sneaking suspicions that in the Rim the progression was whores for terraforming crews, families with the 'lil woman, then companions.

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Monday, May 4, 2009 1:55 PM

That would be the correct order of things.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

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Monday, May 4, 2009 1:55 PM

Interesting speculation :) I like the idea of her mother being a Companion and the Guild not knowing about her health issues. Although, Inara never strikes me as a liar when it comes to her Companioning credibility, or maybe she was going to hide her illness until she couldn’t perform anymore. Maybe that’s why she goes to the Training House to teach instead of hitching a ride with a luxury liner.

The whole thing is kind of sad when you think about it, especially when she has no fantasy future or hopes and dreams in Better Days, except to be with Mal.

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Monday, May 4, 2009 2:00 PM

Agreed. Better Days is all about the fantasies the characters have, the way they'd like their lives to go.

It says something that Inara's one fantasy is Mal, and Mal has no fantasies.

Also, I've said it before, but Inara's reaction to Mal talking about having children in OMR... Viewed through these lenses, it's as heart-wrenching as when she cries in HOG, or tells Mal that she's leaving.

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Monday, May 4, 2009 2:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:

And something did happen to drive her from Shinon. My personal theory is that she got into the way of someone (either another Companion or a client)very powerful and even though she was the innocent party, she "volunteered" to leave until things were better on Shinon.

Since we don't hear much about rivalry within the guild, but surely it must exist, this sounds like a very plausible reason for leaving. I know companions aren't exactly geisha, but there are enough similarities that I'm sure rivalries and competitiveness would arise. Plus, Atherton is enough of an example that companions can cross clients leading to political ramifications (though of course in Ath's case he crossed the line and ended harming his own reputation).

NCB, I can see a scenario like the one you're theorizing being enough of a reason for Inara to have to leave, and get that wistful look in her eye when thinking about Sihnon. Leaving was clearly not her first choice.

To stay on topic though, I doubt the guild would necessarily know about Inara's condition if she wanted to keep that sort of information hidden.

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
The whole thing is kind of sad when you think about it, especially when she has no fantasy future or hopes and dreams in Better Days, except to be with Mal.

Uhhhhmm... that's a sad fantasy? Oh, or are you saying the situation's sad because that's her only fantasy, and the fates (aka Joss) have seen fit to cut her life and potential time with Mal short? Gotcha, I read that wrong. 'cause it's not a sad fantasy if ya ask me.

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Monday, May 4, 2009 3:27 PM

Either way, I think...

Don't get me wrong. Mal is a great character (both in writing and, sometimes, in morals), but he'd also be a very difficult person to live with.

I don't envy Inara the trials she has ahead of her.

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Monday, May 4, 2009 3:32 PM

Oh, no doubt he'd be a difficult person to live with. ...If they argue like that NOW? Heh. :(

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Monday, May 4, 2009 3:59 PM

Buuut... If they ever worked out the issues, aside from the fights, they'd probably be good for each other.

Inara needs someone real who's not after her just for prestige, who'll encourage her strength and wisdom but check some of her core-born naivety. Mal needs someone nurturing, who can endure and temper his worse moments, and keep him from doing things he would hate himself for.

Plus, take away some of Mal's darkness and violence, and they both have pretty similar senses of humour. And they can find appreciation in a lot of the same things.

And Mal isn't ALL bad. If he mellowed out some, he might actually be able to give back some of the nurturing. He's certainly very good with Kaylee and River, it's not something he's completely incapable of. And he definitely cares enough for Inara.

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Monday, May 4, 2009 4:16 PM

Holy cow, huge discussion. I read about half of it and am still confused as heck. Is this something I'm gonna learn in one of the comic series or is this something I can learn now and not feel bad for being spoiled?

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Monday, May 4, 2009 4:24 PM

Ha! And this is just one day's worth! :)

I'm also pleased to know that we're being subtle enough to not completely give away the secret to someone who might not want spoilers...

The comic book Better Days hints at it, as does some moments in the tv series, but no, neither comes out directly and says what's going on with Inara.

What we're going off of is something Morena Baccarin maybe kind of leaked at DragonCon 2008, and which Joss has since confirmed. If you really want to know, it doesn't take more than maybe 30 minutes of looking on youtube.

And if you really really want to know now, send me a PM, I'll PM a link back to you.

If you don't want to know and keep it a surprise for any potential sequels, well... That's going to be tricky. It's not quite common knowledge, but it's common enough that someone might slip with a spoiler or hint a little too strongly. I knew long before I ever actually saw the link (even if I tried to pretend I didn't).

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Monday, May 4, 2009 4:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CellarDoor:
Oh, no doubt he'd be a difficult person to live with. ...If they argue like that NOW? Heh. :(

I'm sure the teacups and what ever else would fly every once and a while, but the makeups would be sweet.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

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Monday, May 4, 2009 4:43 PM

I saw the vid - and I had gathered as much as is in the video. What I was wondering is, do we KNOW why or how or whatever? I'm guessing all this talk about Simon and Inara knowing each other and the vial and all are from the comics?

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Monday, May 4, 2009 4:46 PM

The vial in question is from the pilot episode, when they first encounter the Reavers.

Simon being involved/finding out about Inara's secret is in the comic book Better Days. :) But it's subtle there, too. Just ask yourself why she might need to see the doctor.

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Monday, May 4, 2009 4:55 PM

Well, I guess I did imply that it is sad that Inara's only fantasy is being with Mal especially with him the way he is.

It is easy a lot easier for Mal to be Big Bro Captain to Kaylee and Captain Daddy to River, that's him in his hero roll; he gladly accepts that part of his person. But to love someone completely and unconditionally in their time of need, takes resolve, faith, and a sacrifice of your fear of loss...it's the part of Mal that needs the most work, and Inara knows it, “I’ve seen so many different versions of you”. And how is she ever going to be able to tell him with her knowing Mal is as emotionally fragile as a man that will sleep with the first whore who can successfully seduce him because he’s feeling emotionally rejected.

Okay, I hope this doesn't sound too negative on the Mal and Inara ship, because you know I love their interactions and I'm a hopeless romantic. This can't work without Mal proving he can be that person for her, I dunno... is he nearing that at the end of the movie?

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Monday, May 4, 2009 5:07 PM

I'm... not gonna comment on the movie, since I know Beatlesfan is reading this and hasn't seen Serenity yet!

But on Mal's emotional fragility, I think if they ever actually aired their feelings, a fair degree of strengthening and healing might occur given at least a little time (and I love the fan fics that show this!). I think Mal's actions in HoG wouldn't necessarily be cause for Inara to fear habitual relapses (though if her secret is legit, she'd probably bring a lot of insecurity to the relationship). It's not like he's Jayne or something...

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Monday, May 4, 2009 5:11 PM

At the end of the movie? Not really... he came for her when she needed him, but he really wasn't too affectionate about it. He thought it was amusing, up until the point he remembered what it was like having her around and started getting confused and feeling cut down.

He tries to play the hero role for Inara, but she doesn't really want that, and that's the only way he knows how to be there for anyone. The inspiring big brother former rebel sergeant bolstering up the people under his command.

It's unfortunately not too effective in a romantic capacity or something requiring a little more sensitivity, unless hero worship turns into something else. Not likely in their case.

Maybe he showed some sensitivity towards her while she's struggling to figure out her new place in the verse. I figure it took about six months after Mr. Universe's moon to get Serenity flying again.

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Monday, May 4, 2009 5:16 PM

Oh, and I just watched the commentary again, and Zeek was right, the Simon Inara met before thing isn't there. I was sure it was.

I just KNOW I've heard it though... And it sounds like other people on this thread have too.

Maybe it's in the making of documentary in the special features?

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Monday, May 4, 2009 5:17 PM

Also, I hope my previous post didn't give away any serenity spoilers.

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Monday, May 4, 2009 5:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Oh, and I just watched the commentary again, and Zeek was right, the Simon Inara met before thing isn't there. I was sure it was.

I just KNOW I've heard it though... And it sounds like other people on this thread have too.

Maybe it's in the making of documentary in the special features?

hm, I have NO idea what you're talking about, but I am still relatively new, so... I haven't read "Better Days" yet either, in case that matters for the reference you're talking about. It sounded to me like the "prior introduction theory" was more like speculation to me?

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Monday, May 4, 2009 5:31 PM

Could be, but it was speculation from either one of the crew members, or one of the writers besides Joss Whedon.

Considering how they adopted some of Alan's ideas about Wash...? That doesn't necessarily count against it. But only if I can find the damn reference... Hmm.

They are pretty friendly from the get go, though, even though I don't think it's in a romantic attraction way.

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Monday, May 4, 2009 5:42 PM

Well, they're both from more civilized portions of society. It's only natural that they would gravitate towards each other for conversation and be more at ease in each other's presence. Plus, their jobs both come with the professional/client confidentiality responsibilities, so there's another later of kinship. I do NOT see a romantic attraction, just mutual respect.

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Monday, May 4, 2009 5:49 PM

I saw Serenity tonight, so no more worrying about spoilers :)

That being said, I think that at the end, his remark was more of a "Yay back to the way things were before." I think that they were sort of okay in the roles they played never really voicing their feelings. I think they both wanted to say something, but that "Ready to get off this heap, back to civilized life?" "I, uh, I don't know" "Good answer" exchange, I think, had the subtext of, "I want you to stay, will you?" "Of course." "I'm glad."

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Monday, May 4, 2009 5:51 PM

Exactly, Beatlesfan! Just like how "As you wish" can mean "I love you"! :)

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Monday, May 4, 2009 6:05 PM

PERFECT analogy. And I really think the only way they would say something would be in a situation similar to "Our Mrs. Reynolds" where Mal DOESN'T say something stupid like "I KNEW you let her kiss you!" before Inara spills her guts. Cause you know if one of them does then the other will.

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Monday, May 4, 2009 6:16 PM

If Mal believes she's not just messing with him, that is. Always kind of an issue he has.

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Monday, May 4, 2009 7:38 PM

BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
At the end of the movie? Not really... he came for her when she needed him, but he really wasn't too affectionate about it. He thought it was amusing, up until the point he remembered what it was like having her around and started getting confused and feeling cut down.

He tries to play the hero role for Inara, but she doesn't really want that, and that's the only way he knows how to be there for anyone. The inspiring big brother former rebel sergeant bolstering up the people under his command.

It's unfortunately not too effective in a romantic capacity or something requiring a little more sensitivity, unless hero worship turns into something else. Not likely in their case.

Maybe he showed some sensitivity towards her while she's struggling to figure out her new place in the verse. I figure it took about six months after Mr. Universe's moon to get Serenity flying again.

Hoo doggy…lots of tasty tidbits to contemplate when it comes to Mal and Inara, I must say! And boy howdy do I have few things I’d like chew on with y’all!

;)

Firstly, I honestly don’t see Mal’s decision to sleep with Nandi as a sign of emotional fragility on our Capt. Tightpants’ part. If Jayne has supposedly had opportunities since joining the crew of Serenity to visit bordellos, brothels and houses of loose morals to have himself a good ole time (at least up until around the time of Inara’s departure post-Those Left Behind,” since I get the impression from Mal’s mini-rant to Zoë after leaving Lilac in the BDM that things have been thin on the ground re: jobs for a little while) while in port, then Mal certainly has had the same amount of opportunity to release the tensions generated by Inara’s desire to keep business and pleasure two VERY separate things. To me, Malcolm Reynolds is a contradiction in personality in that he can do familial and leader-subordinate relationships quite well (his paternal/big brother role for River and Kaylee, and his ‘master and commander’ role for Zoë, Wash and Jayne) BUT 1-on-1 interpersonal relationships that have NOT evolved from the two previously mentioned roles freak him the hell out…especially when it’s Inara he’s dealing with. His success at familial and organizational-oriented relationship obviously come from his past as an Army NCO for the Independents and from living on a ranch in his childhood…it’s familiar, it’s ingrained, and it allows him to move at a personally comfortable pace as he builds up a relationship. However, as we see with his interactions with Inara and YoSaffBridge (and possibly from how Mal treats Zoë’s relationship with Wash) during the series, individual interpersonal relationships are things that Mal notably struggles with when they start creeping into his worldview; Mal’s daemons, I think, play a major part in his struggle, as Mal’s remark to Inara during the BDM about how she will be all too aware of when Mal has begun to fight hits me as Mal telling Inara “I have a monster inside of me you’ve yet to meet and you’re REALLY not gonna like what you see if it comes out to play.” Mal, to me, is someone who perceives himself as someone who has had to (to paraphrase lyrics from the 80s band Quaterflash) harden his heart and swallow his “tears” as a manner of coping with his personal losses and the consequences of taking actions he has come to deem as monstrous (i.e. booting Crow through Serenity’s port engine, shooting one of the Lilac trading station’s guards during their escape from the Reavers, etc.) to protect himself and others close to him. I think, to Mal, Nandi was someone who he could actually relate to outside of his usual comfort zone because he saw her as a kindred spirit in eking out a life completely different then they grew up in via cleaning up and efficiently running the Heart of Gold; his ability to let down his guard enough to share a night of comfort and passion with Nandi definitely struck a blow against the fragile relationship Mal and Inara were developing on screen, but not because Mal can’t take rejection but because – at the time – Nandi had the freedom to pursue something physical with Mal and a personal perspective closer to Mal’s at that juncture that made Mal feel more able to take a step he can’t/won’t with Inara due to all of their mutual and individual baggage.

BEB

"The revenge of the beaten comes in refusing to fall." -- Mal, in "The Losing Side - Chapter 45" by jetflair

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Monday, May 4, 2009 8:11 PM

Bytemite: Simon can't lie to save his life? I beg to differ.

If and when Simon tells, it will be patently obvious and no longer really a secret--he'll just confirm.

BlueEyed: wooo-eee. That's some post. I think you got quite a lot of it. :)

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Monday, May 4, 2009 8:38 PM

Nice post BEB, like I said if Mal can only connect intimately with a women when "the moon is in the second house" to borrow from an earlier song, there's not a chance in hell he’ll be ready to offer Inara any emotional comfort when she needs it. If kindred, free, and available are his criteria for an intimate liaison, how can she ever trust him to be human enough to understand her plight which is void of choice and bravado.

There’s nothing empowering in the way she is dying, there’s no choice in it either. Mal’s never going to relate to that unless he grows beyond judging people in terms of how useful they can be and how similar they are to him. He needs to move out of his comfort zone.

In his defense I think Mal is the one who recognizes this by stating that he wishes he had never met Nandi. He sees his own weakness in, again, not being able to save her, he reverts to his Captain mode once again. Unfortunately, it confirms Inara's intuition that Mal is not strong enough emotionally to be trusted with the knowledge of her fate.

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Monday, May 4, 2009 11:46 PM

Keeping order in every verse

Wow.what did I start here?

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 1:34 AM

Peacekeeper,

Browncoats are a deep and insightful bunch with many points of view despite what other fandoms think of us.

BEB, many good points there (and great to see you around). and Mal and Inara both have to change a bit in order to have a successful relationship.

Unfortunately I have to go to work, but I know you'll talk amongst yourselves and I'll have lots to ponder this evening.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:

And I don't think that the Guild knew about Inara's secret. Companions have to be and need to be in good health and Inara acts as if no one knows about her secret but her and her doctor, whoever that is.

I'm really impressed with your whole analysis: so when is YOUR Inara's Dying fanfic coming?! But this bit I'm quoting here in particular adds so much - can you imagine HOW sad and lonely she must be, when she has no-one to confide in at all.

WARNING: I'm really good at killing threads, hope this one goes on (I'm in a different time zone, so can only join in after it's all over... sigh...)

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 4:15 AM

I actually disagree with the Nandi take, BEB. Not too much, it's mostly I just have a slightly different view.

Nandi is strong, intelligent minded and confident business women, who left the Core to pursue a life unfamiliar to what she had known. I agree with that, and that this is something about Nandi he respects; because it's ALSO something he respects about Inara.

It could be the kinship of leadership, but ultimately, that's not how Nandi seduces Mal. Or why she can. Or why he won't let Inara.

The conversation he has with Nandi is largely one of Rim laws, values, and behaviours that Mal is comfortable with. Saffron, who also very nearly seduced Mal (and who he tried to resist, albeit weakly, because she acted like she didn't have confidence in herself), her story was one of a poor lowly girl from Triumph and marriage to him was her only way out.

I see it more being more about perceived social stations.

With Inara, there's aspects of him not knowing what about her is real and what is the companion, but that really is just exasperating an element that made him have a hard time trusting Simon at first. Like Nandi, they're from the Core elite, but unlike Nandi, they've held on to their social mannerisms and pretentions. Mal does not understand these behaviours, even a watered-down version like we observed at the Persephone Ball. Their Core manners makes it harder for him to figure out what they're about.

Unlike Simon, however, Mal is attracted to Inara, and he's put her up on a pedestal that's possibly been reinforced by his post war experiences.

Despite Mal's "screw you" attitude towards of everything Alliance, and his rebellious law breaking whenever he can get away with it, I think Mal's been institutionalized a bit. Remember the Serenity pilot, when he asks Dobson if there's a reward for Simon? Granted, Simon didn't know the whole story, and completely deserved it when Mal decked him, but he also hit a nerve when he called Mal on it. If Dobson hadn't told Mal that he considered everyone on the ship culpable for harboring fugitives, before hearing Simon's story, Mal would have turned Simon over without a second thought.

I consider it entirely reasonable that Mal probably spent some time in a POW camp after Serenity Valley, and that the time there broke him down enough that anything Alliance or Core is something to be intimidated by. And in Inara's case, I think this has influenced a perception of himself as lowly, and her as superior. And he doesn't like feeling that way, nosiree, and with Inara he's able to express his anger about it.

That deflated self worth is just another obstacle between the two of them that will have to be overcome.

However, BEB, I do think you're right about your assessment of Mal's interpersonal skills and that Mal and Inara have baggage between them. My argument is that freedom to act isn't ALL there is to it. Most of the baggage between Mal and Inara are inhibitions they've constructed to keep the other out. At the root of it all, what really keeps them from acting on their feelings is, for Inara, her secret, and for Mal, Inara's career as a companion. In Mal's case, it's not a matter of pride at all, but rather the worry that he'll ruin her.

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 4:19 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
Honestly, I've thought that way about Inara for a long time. And it seemed to gel after seeing the Companion Papers.

You and I are in the same vein as far as analysis goes. However, I have not read the companion papers. This was new to me when you wrote it. Where are they available?

I wrote a full in-depth analysis of Blue Sun that took me about two weeks to work out in my mind which I then posted on my blog. I'm interested in all of the varing issues related to the verse and had planned to write more blogs about the subjects of:
1. Book's Secrets
2. Poitical Causes for the Independents
3. A philosopher's analysis of my very favorite episode, Objects in Space.

And of course Inara's secret. However, this is the one I have my mind wrapped around the least, and this thread has become, by far, the best discussion of the subject on fff.net. Morena herself has become a key part of the discussion because unlike Ron Glass, Joss actually TOLD Morena things. For a few years now I've gone to places like DragonCon and watched browncoats ask pointed and direct questions about Book to Ron who has no idea what to say in return. Ron is just an actor to whom Joss shared no information. He can't help us. And often he looks confused as if he doesn't understand what we're even asking him or where our knowledge-thirst is coming from. Morena on the other hand KNOWS THINGS. Joss told her the secret AND what was in the vial. She would get these pained expressions at each con as we relentlessly assulted her with questions: Friday Panel "What's the secret?" Saturday Panel "What's the secret?" Sunday Panel "Tell us the freaking secret!" Multiply that in your mind by several cons to see how intense the pressure on Morena has been. Sometimes I kinda feel sorry for her position, but I still wish she'd just tell us what was in the gorram vial.

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 4:22 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Beatlesfan:
Holy cow, huge discussion. I read about half of it and am still confused as heck. Is this something I'm gonna learn in one of the comic series or is this something I can learn now and not feel bad for being spoiled?

Dude, I've been peeling back the layers of this subject since 2004 and with 5 years of time still don't have it 100% worked out, so don't feel bad.

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 4:25 AM

Here's the transcription of the Companion Papers from the Blu-Ray disk, transcribed by a dedicated fan, and as reported to us by NCBrowncoat:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=37626

I must say, it's pretty interesting reading. We certainly see some of what Inara would face if she were to break guild policy and go off alone or run off with a certain freighter captain.

Oh, and as long as Morena keeps holding back with the information, I hold out hope that she still thinks a further Joss-helmed production or comic is possible! :) The actors just... all need to drive safely, not smoke, and avoid any extreme sports that could lead to untimely death. Selfish though that is of me to say. ;)

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 4:37 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Reads like a "non-compete" contract I myself signed in 2006.

By her very actions in the episode Trash she colluded with her ships captain to play an active role in swindling a certain priceless laser gun from a wealthy Alliance Citizen. I'd say that at least violates:

If at any time it is determined that either the above-named Ship, its crew, or the above-named Companion are engaging in activities viewed by the Alliance or the Companions Guild as extra-, sub-, or illegal, all authorizations of this trust will be made null and void.

It also demonstrates her feelings for Mal to willingly place herself at risk like that. Beyond that she was:
1. On board when the crew sold stolen food rations to Patience on Whitefall.
2. On board when the crew stole meds from the Paridso miners for a local crime lord before "returning" them.
3. Got pinched for poking around on a reaver raided ship.
4. Smuggled cattle from Persephone to Jaingyin for Lord Harrow who wished to evade taxes.
5. Got wrapped up with Tracey's human organ smuggling scheme.
And above all lets not forget that she:
6. Has been knowingly flying around the verse with 2 high profile Alliance Fugitives, one of whom is a Blue Sun sculpted psychic assassin.

At least she was elsewhere when the crew raided the hospital in Ariel City.

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 4:41 AM

AnotherSky: When does Simon give any indication at all that he can lie believably? In Jaynestown, at the beginning? The only time he even comes close is in the Serenity pilot, when he leaves out the fact that he's the one who actually went in to save River, and that's not so much a lie as it is a half-truth. He was still helped by some underground resistance, they still put her in a cryogenic chamber and shipped her to Persephone, and it still took probably a large sum of money and luck on his account. Technically, he didn't lie at all.

Or maybe the Serenity movie, when he's actually rescuing River? So long as he had the proper identification (had to, or they wouldn't let him in), and had medical expertise enough that he seemed like someone the Alliance might send to inspect progress, he wouldn't have to lie at all. He just let Dr. Mathias keep talking, asking questions he would genuinely be concerned about.

Hmm, but I'm kind of getting off topic here.

What does everyone think Inara has? It'd have to be something moderately slow progressing, that doesn't have too much effect on her physical wellbeing, because she shows no outward sign of having any problem.

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 4:45 AM

BSCM: Fun, aren't they? Also notice in those papers a complete lack of any mention of compulsory medical check-ups. Hint hint.

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 5:14 AM

Keeping order in every verse

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
Peacekeeper,

Browncoats are a deep and insightful bunch with many points of view despite what other fandoms think of us.

BEB, many good points there (and great to see you around). and Mal and Inara both have to change a bit in order to have a successful relationship.

Unfortunately I have to go to work, but I know you'll talk amongst yourselves and I'll have lots to ponder this evening.NC, I never suggested otherwise.I am proud to class myself among them. Its just that a post of mine has never generated so much attention. Glad to see Ive hit a nerve is all.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 5:18 AM

Keeping order in every verse

Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
Peacekeeper,

Browncoats are a deep and insightful bunch with many points of view despite what other fandoms think of us.

BEB, many good points there (and great to see you around). and Mal and Inara both have to change a bit in order to have a successful relationship.

Unfortunately I have to go to work, but I know you'll talk amongst yourselves and I'll have lots to ponder this evening.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

NC, Im not suggesting otherwise.Glad to class myself as one of them. Its just that one of my threads has never attracted so much attention.Glad to have contributed something worthy of discussion is all.

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 5:57 AM

Platonist: I don't think Mal necessarily judges people based on how useful they are. Objects in Space and the Lilac Run aside, River tends to be far more trouble and in need of protection than the amount she gives back. Yet he lets her stay.

Or Shepherd Book. Initially his perspective is why the hell would I want a shepherd around? Shepherd Book is a pretty good cook from what I can tell, and seems to know an awful lot about clandestine operations, but none of that is why he stays either.

If all Mal really valued about people is how they are useful (to him), his initial impression of Inara would have been "rich, pampered, spoiled, useless." Which I don't think is the impression he got at all. And I really don't think he enjoys it when she uses her companion status to save his neck, even though it's quite useful for him!

Nah, a person who only values others for their uses isn't just Mal-practical, they're narcissistic sociopaths. Mal appreciates plenty of other things about his crew than just what uses they have. What would Mal be without Kaylee's cheerfulness, Book's wise common sense, Wash's sense of humour and sometimes friendship, or Zoe's loyalty? River's important to him, not just cause she's a reader and a pilot, though what about her it is... Maybe her combination intellectual and childlike wonder or playfulness? Jayne is important because he represents straight-up self-interest, which Mal uses to protect the crew. Mal does respect Simon's unexpected bravery (quiet guy like that, who'd have thought?), that is, when Simon isn't punching him for taking River on a job, or annoying him, or being too sarcastic... And Inara. I'm not sure there's anything about her he doesn't appreciate.

Nope, I think our Captain has a secret sentimental side. :)

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 6:17 AM

In his mind if has to be secret. I think that he sees some weakness in Simon because of his absolute dedication to his sister. Even when River does something that really gets them into a lot of trouble, Simon is there trying to defend her, and I think Mal sees that as a bad thing. Perhaps he doesn't want to be in a position where he's expected to do the same for Inara. And when he is talking with Wash in War Stories about how it splits alliances having inter-crew relationships, it kinda of hints that he knows the same would happen with him and Inara, that he would have to show her more dedication than the rest of the crew and his ship, which makes him uneasy.

In the pilot Serenity, when the soldier at the beginning is dying Mal totally ignores everything else and tries to talk to the guy to keep him alive. I think if he knew that Inara was dying that he would feel the need to do the same basic thing with her, and he is afraid to.

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 6:35 AM

Hmm. Not so much a weakness... Mal is able to see and understand the heroic nature of Simon's struggles, and it's the kind of heroism Mal wishes he still had but thinks he's too jaded for.

But Simon doesn't realize none of the crew can get anywhere without each other and that his best bet to save his sister is to be loyal to the crew, instead Simon chooses to be loyal to his sister above all else.

And that's something Mal would see as an inconvenient complication. :)

However... As captain, he would see a conflict of interest in getting involved with anyone on his ship. Much like as a sergeant in the war. He thinks he owes it to the people under his command to keep a clear head, and to keep the situation on the home front stable. He would like the other crew members to take their obligations in this regard as seriously, but being as this actually isn't war time, he doesn't have much chance of it.

He also really, REALLY doesn't want to lose any more people he cares about. He's haunted enough as it is, and he blames himself a lot. So he's developed a sort of distancing mechanism to keep anyone from really knowing him or getting close.

And judging by all his pony-tail pulling, Mal hasn't had too many mature reciprocated relationships with women. He kind of doesn't know HOW to act. And his upbringing seems to have left him kind of repressed, both religious and in the values of masculine strength he appears to have been taught, so he doesn't have any way that he knows how to express his desires, and seems inclined to try to ignore them out of his own embarrassment.

But yes, the prospect of Inara dying, and how to be there for her/comfort her when he has no idea how, that would be very scary for him.

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 7:52 PM

How did I miss this entire discussion? Sigh.

Love all of these thoughts, though. I will continue to mull over it all to my heart's content.

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 8:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
I've gone back and read older threads, and I am amazed that a few fans fiqured this out, so kudos to you, bscm.
Bingo. Found it.

I had posted my opinions in 2004 to be rebuked by some folks. Then on Feb 4 2005, under my previous alias thiefjehat, I started this thread that got 8 replies:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=8747

Yup. Threw a bullseye I did.

There was a discussion about this theory at least as early as January, 2004:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=3415#36893 (if you look in the middle of that thread somewhere, I'm the first to suggest that the "I'm a big girl, just tell me" line was actually someone Inara once told a doctor...)

---

I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 4:08 AM

I spent all that time arguing with BSCM that part of Inara's secret may have to do with anti-aging... But as I think about it, even though something about the theory doesn't quite sit right with me, and even though I think Nandi was more admiring than outright shocked, so Inara isn't outside normal expectations...

There really isn't any reason for Joss to have drawn attention to her appearance and age unless something was significant about it.

I kind of like the idea of something degenerative, like relapsing multiple sclerosis, or maybe something progressively degenerative in the cerebellum and brain stem. Something that she could hide the signs of, or wouldn't show signs of for a long time, that would keep her higher functions intact as she just slowly shut down. Maybe she might take medication to slow the degeneration, and some small amount of anti-aging is the side effect?

Anyway. I still haven't rewatched the making of documentary, but I think another possibility for the Simon and Inara meeting before reference could be in the pilot episode, during the commentary when Mal finds the two of them having a conversation in the shuttle.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 4:31 AM

Of course, this is the exact take I'm taking on the anti-aging in the fic I'm writing. I do think it's there, in the series – but the part of people's theories that don't sit right with me is that she'd be taking something in ORDER to stay young. I don't think Inara's vain. She's beautiful, but she's not vain about it in the least. If she is taking something to prevent aging, I think it has to be something also meant to slow the progression of a disease. Which I buy as possible, though that doesn't mean that I think in any way that she's dramatically older than she looks. I certainly don't buy that she's actually fifty or something. Morena's about my age, so she would have been 23 or so when the show was shot. We're probably meant to assume Inara's in her late twenties. I don't buy that this would make her more than 31 or 32 though. Just looked it up, and Melinda Clarke was about 34 when she played Nandi. I'd bet Inara would be a few years younger than that.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 4:35 AM

PS. Definitely going to look at those DVD commentaries today re: Simon and Inara. The conversation at the beginning of Bushwhacked does feel rather... familiar.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 4:59 AM

Really? Maybe I'm not so angry with your version of Inara's mother then... Although I still get the feeling there may have been negligence and poisonous mothering involved.

But yes, I'd think that would be what makes sense, given the information we have. The idea of Inara flattering her vanity at any cost is a major unspoken part of the reason I've been uneasy with that theory as well.

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