firefly and kids, help. by AshCrouch

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

firefly and kids, help.

POSTED BY: ASHCROUCH
UPDATED: Monday, May 25, 2009 21:19
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Wednesday, May 20, 2009 11:42 AM

Hi guys, I'm new to threading on the forum but been reading for quite a while.

I love firefly, just recently forced my fiance to watch it and now she loves it too, couldn't get her away from the tv when it was on.

I work with children and wanted to know if I could pass on any firefly knowledge to my little ones as though they can't watch it, it could benefit them.

Any help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:27 PM

BYTEMITE

It's tricky, because in some ways the characters have admirable traits, but none of them I'd really call a good role model for kids.

'Cept maybe Kaylee, Wash, and Simon... It's hard really to condemn Kaylee and Wash for any of the more morally ambiguous things the crew does, and Simon is kind of as straight shooter, goody two shoes as it gets. Possibly Book and Inara, if you're particularly liberal or fuzzy on kneecaps, they're fonts of wisdom and moral advice.

There was a similar discussion that Chrisisall started... Here. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=37442

It eventually turns into a big debate on morality, and also where morality comes from. Derails a bit, to be honest... Which is mostly my fault... *Embarrassed*

I guess before I can answer your question, exactly what values do you want your children to take away, or what questions of theirs do you want to answer?

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Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:12 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Perhaps the concepts of no matter where we go, our humanity will follow us, it's greatness and it's frailties. And, contrary to historic Papal teachings, you can still believe in God when not on Earth.
When Star Trek and MASH used futurictic or historical settings to use as fables of modern (or at the time, current) social events, Firefly doesn't use that, it's already dealing with humans versus humans, the social subtexts are already dealt with as givens.
What age are these "little ones" anyhow?

Of course, the quest and desire for Freedom and independence should never be secreted from children.

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Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:03 AM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse

A similar thread popped up not so long ago.Unfortunately as much as I love Firefly,I have to say that perhaps your proteges need educating from your OWN experiences, rather than relying on a TV programme.I think this takes obsession a little too far.Dont mean to offend by saying that.

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Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:57 AM

ASHCROUCH

Peacemaker, no offense taken at all.

JewelStaiteFan, I am a youth worker. Some of the children are as young as 3 but range to 15-16. The older children don't see people giving them freedom and just wanting to control what they do and say so although I don't want them breaking the law (probably not great seeing as that happens most of the time in firefly) I want them to see the freedom the crew have and if they are going to break the law (which many already do) where to draw the line.
I have some of the younger children already saying shiny which has confused a couple of parents and impressed one.

Maybe Peacemaker is right and its taking the obsession to far, but what about the death of the show. I feel encouraging the young to watch it means it will stay around for a lot longer.

One of my biggest aim in my work is showing the children, in the last 30 years childrens freedom has gone from going into forests and walking to school from as young as 6 to not being able to leave there house at 12. I think my biggest aim is for children to be free, follow their own destinies and choose their own lives. Not have life thrust onto them

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Thursday, May 21, 2009 7:51 AM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse

Ash, What you are saying does make a lot of sense.But I must reiterate my previous statement.The joy of being a Firefly fan,or indeed any other form of televisual entertainment,is to express the joy we had in watching something that took us away from reality in a way that other shows just couldn't.In that respect,I can fully understand why people(Including myself) would actively campaign for the reinstatement of a show that gave us so much escapist fulfillment(albeit prematurely taken from us).What I cannot get my head around,is the idea that a tv show of the nature of Firefly,should be taken as anything more than entertainment,escapism,refreshment at the end of a long working week.I think that overanalysing of such entertainment, by trying to incorporate it as some kind of educational tool for life,is somewhat taking things a little far.Im sure there are lessons that can be learned from many shows and I'm not saying that Firefly doesn't deserve a place in anybody's experience of life.After all,the shows that touch us are worth remembering and fighting for.But i just think it should be discussed for what it IS,rather than what it represents in everyday life.It is entertainment,pure and simple.The kids you are in charge of should of course be encouraged to watch and support the show,but I don't think it is necessary to promote it as an educational tool.That is where I think that some people lose the plot.Enthusiasm is healthy,obsession is dangerous.But,please enjoy Firefly and encourage your kids to do the same.It will ENTERTAIN them someday too.Regards.

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Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:11 AM

MSA

ASh I teach special ed and have several behavior and social skills lessons that involve snippets of Firefly if you'd like to use them feel free to PM me.
Their based on cognative mapping so it's intensive intervention using exemplar with anaysis and metacognition.

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:14 AM

BYTEMITE

Hmm. Well, I agree we all like Firefly because of the entertainment value. But if it was just entertainment, would we like Firefly as much as we do? I think all of us who appreciate Firefly do so because in some way we relate to it. There's 9 different characters, all of them nuanced and from different backgrounds, and any one of them or all of them, a person can see a bit of ourselves reflected in them.

I consider Firefly art. Not many tv shows are that, but that's what Firefly is. Like literature, even in just one season and a movie, this show explores some important issues of morality, character, and themes. I think there's meanings and layers, and while a person can just appreciate the snappy dialogue and plot progression, no harm no foul, or as a study in writing, purely intellectual, I think it's the spirit of the show that is so catching.

Ashcrouch. If you were to take anything to the kids you look after, that's what I would bring. The spirit of independence is already ingrained in these characters and their ship. Let the kids decide for themselves who or what they relate to. Some of the characters aren't perfect, some of them even are a bit criminal, but in so many small ways they're all better people than they could be, and that's probably what's most important. None of us are perfect either, after all.

If the kids like the story and the characters, chances are they'll also appreciate the message about free-thinking and will.

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Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:49 AM

IMNOTHERE

Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
What I cannot get my head around,is the idea that a tv show of the nature of Firefly,should be taken as anything more than entertainment,escapism,refreshment at the end of a long working week.

Especially if (as Ash's original post seems to suggest) the kids in question aren't actually going to be able to see the show... Stories may have the power to teach, but not if you take away the story!

I think one of the appeals of the show is the moral ambiguity: our Big Damn Heroes are also petty criminals and (unlike the cackling villains of other shows) the Alliance isn't notably more evil than the typical western democracy, and some of the bad guys really do think they're doing the right thing.

I suppose if it has any take-home morals, they are:
1. Right and wrong can be complicated
2. Don't be too quick to judge
3. Few people are completely good, or completely evil
4. ...apart from Niska and the Blue Hand Gang.
5. If you want heavy-handed morality tales, go watch Star Trek (but remember 1-3 above)!

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Thursday, May 21, 2009 10:55 AM

BEATLESFAN

I don't think there is any one character or episode that is entirely good for this except for maybe the three previously mentioned characters. The show WOULD be good, though, for snippets, little examples of things.

I don't see a problem using examples - in my teaching experiences I use a lot of references, whether it be TV shows, songs, or other things. It's good to have references or examples to back up things you say. Yes personal experience is great (and most of the time best), but when you have younger students, using something that involves cowboys and space ships is going to grab their attention fast.

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Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:52 PM

BORIS

I used to run vacation care and after school care. Kids don't like to be talked at about what they should or shouldn't be doing, but they love hearing stories, and relating to the themes in stories can help them make sense of the world and put things like morality into a digestible context. The kids loved hearing our stories about many different fictitious characters including the cool crew of Serenity. Adapted Firefly stories were great for enhancing the whole "stick together Coz we are a unit" loyalty thing we had going on at our center. Some of us used elements of Firefly in our stories to strengthen our take on inclusion,diversity and acceptance, and also to encourage kids to stand up for what they believed in and look after each other. On a couple of bus rides to excursions me and the Firefly loving members of the team improvised a kid friendly version of the theme song which the kids loved and were singing for days afterwards...kinda wish I'd written it down. Now it's about 7 years later and a number of those kids are older teens who love Firefly and Serenity, and a whole lot of other stuff they were introduced to by us, and as far as i can tell they have not suffered any ill effects. There are some good lessons to be learned from the interactions between people in the series you just have to adapt them to the age group. I'm sure most of them are into Harry Potter, which frankly is a lot scarier than Firefly at times. Kaylee and zoe are great role models for girls. And Wash is cool too as he's a geek, but he's tough when he needs to be and he's valued. Basically when you are dealing with kids, be creative and draw on whatever you need to enhance the lessons you teach them. I f Firefly has some stuff you can adapt that you think will be appropriate and useful go for it.

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Monday, May 25, 2009 6:42 PM

STOWEAWAY

I have two little boys 6 & 8 yrs old. I don't consider Firefly to be a good learning tool for them -- in terms of watching entire episodes. Their world is still too black & white to understand the subtleties and duplicity of the characters. But I do agree that snippets could be used to convey a message.
My kids have only ever watched Shindig & my oldest watched Safe. He really liked the part in safe when River talks about the cows remembering who they are. And he was touched by the sibling affection between River & Simon. The attempt to burn them alive was a discussion point for us about how some people fear what they don't understand.
Believe it or not, I found Dr. Horrible to be a better conversation piece with my kids. We talked about what makes a true hero. For some reason catchy tunes made the lesson easier to learn.

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Monday, May 25, 2009 9:19 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Firefly is entertainment, very good entertainment.
When it comes to kids, one must approach these things delicately - because kids are impressionable.

Having said that, it can be a useful teaching and discussion tool. For me, I would say that 12 or 13 years old is a good jumping off point. A parent or adult caregiver could use Firefly as a type of right of passage. When my son was younger (about 10-12 years old) and we would watch a movie together he would often ask me questions about what he saw or what was said.

I, of course, would take that opportunity to talk with him about the message behind the film or breakdown his question to the point where he understood. Sometimes the conversation would take several sessions to complete. But, almost always, he would learn something and so would I. I always knew what my son was watching whenever he was with me - very important when they're very young.
By the time he was 14 y.o. I started letting him watch some R-rated movies with me. 99% of the time we would discuss it.

Firefly is a well written show that has some valuable themes and interesting approaches to life's little foibles. It is in the teen years (12-17 y.o.) when things are not so black and white and kids meet up with some gray and fuzzy areas. This show covers those gray areas fairly well.

SGG

Tawabawho?

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