Is it no news really "good news"? by NONONSENSE

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Is it no news really "good news"?

POSTED BY: NONONSENSE
UPDATED: Sunday, November 10, 2002 15:03
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VIEWED: 4206
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Friday, November 8, 2002 3:28 AM

I have not heard anything about the future of the show for a while. The last thing I read was the news posted on this chat room about Fox deciding the fate of it in 2-3 weeks. Is it a bad sign that we have not heard much in the past week? I have a dreadful feeling about it... (not that I want to be "Mrs. Bottlehalfempty" here).

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Friday, November 8, 2002 6:37 AM

HJERMSTED

The only "bad news" we've heard about Firefly seems to me to have been speculation from anti-Joss critics (who seem to squeal in delight when they predict cancellation) and worried posters here on this site.

Fox, as far as I can determine, is behind this show. They advertise it constantly throughout the week. They've alerady ordered additional scripts. They have yet to interrupt it for something other than baseball (which interrupted ALL Fox shows equally for several weeks). Fox has Firefly scheduled well into December (including the premiere of "Serenity" -- the pilot).

The Nielson numbers haven't been good, but we have yet to hear what kind of Nielson performance FOX itself expects from the horrid 8pm timeslot on Fridays.

I don't mean to be Mr. Rosey Glasses, but we're building an audience for this show slowly and surely and Fox knows this.

If you're still experiencing dread at this point, perhaps you'd feel better after a therapeutic postcard writing session ( www.fireflysupport.com).

I for one am optimistic. It's up to us to keep this show going. We have the skills and the tools.

mattro

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Friday, November 8, 2002 7:57 AM

LEEBEE

The show seems to be getting press coverage and most of it good. The Futon Critic is running a small poll asking the question, "What should FOX replace 'Girls Club' with on Monday nights."

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/cgi/gofuton.cgi?action=home

Of the 783 responses, 46.36% said Firefly, which is twice as much as any of the other responses.

I think Firefly has a lot of support.

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Saturday, November 9, 2002 5:49 PM

PERSEPHONE

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
The Nielson numbers haven't been good, but we have yet to hear what kind of Nielson performance FOX itself expects from the horrid 8pm timeslot on Fridays.

Dark Angel had better ratings in the same slot than Firefly is getting, and they axed that show. That can't be good, can it?

Warrick: You didn't have to wound that man.
Mal: Yeah, I know. It was just funny.

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Saturday, November 9, 2002 7:42 PM

DELVO

We all keep on being reminded of the Dark Angel legend, but it's substantially different in at least a couple of ways. One is that profit isn't alone in motivating the networks; there's prestige too, which Dark Angel didn't have, while Firefly is critically acclaimed and its fans are just as loyal as Dark Angel's (only with better reason). Also, and perhaps much more importantly, I just found out that Dark Angel started on a different day, built up its audience in the better market, and then moved to Friday (possibly to be killed for having never gotten good enough ratings by any other day's standards). And the competition and replacement scenarios were also different back then.

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Saturday, November 9, 2002 10:25 PM

LJSQUARED

Quote:
Originally posted by Delvo:
We all keep on being reminded of the Dark Angel legend, but it's substantially different in at least a couple of ways. One is that profit isn't alone in motivating the networks; there's prestige too, which Dark Angel didn't have, while Firefly is critically acclaimed and its fans are just as loyal as Dark Angel's (only with better reason). Also, and perhaps much more importantly, I just found out that Dark Angel started on a different day, built up its audience in the better market, and then moved to Friday (possibly to be killed for having never gotten good enough ratings by any other day's standards). And the competition and replacement scenarios were also different back then.

Dark Angel's second season was also a significant step back from season one. Production values dropped bigtime it got poor reviews. I dont think it was so much the rating numbers as the drop of in ratings in season 2, have a look at this and you'll see what I mean:

Season 1 Ratings

1. Pilot: 11.2/17 share
2. Heat: 9.0/14 share
3. Flushed: 6.9/11 share
4. Cream: 7.1/10 share
5. 411 on the DL: 6.9/10 share
6. Progidy: 7.7/11 share
7. Cold Comfort: 6.7/10 share
8. Blah, Blah, Woof, Woof: 6.9/10 share
9. Out: 6.8/10 share
10. Red: 7.1/11 share
11. Art Attack: 7.0/11 share
12. Rising: 6.6/10 share
13. The Kidz are Aiight: 6.7/10 share
14. Female Trouble: 6.7/10 share
15. Haven: 6.9/10 share.
16. Shorties In Love: 6.4/9.0 share.
17. Pollo Loco: 6.7/10 share.
18. I And I Am A Camera: 6.5/10 share.
19. Hit a Sista Back: 6.0/9.0 share.
20. MEOW: 6.5/10 share.
21. And Jesus Brought a Casserole: 6.5/10 share.

Season 2 Ratings

1. Designate This: 4.7/9 share
2. Bag Em: 4.7/9 share
3. Proof of Purchase: 4.7/9 share
4. Radar Love: 3.6/7 share
5. Boo: 4.5/8 share
6. Two: 3.5/12 share
7. Some Assembly Required: 4.5/8 share
8. Gill Girl: 4.2/8 share
9. Medium is the Message: 3.3/6 share
10. Brainiac: 4.0/7 share
11. The Berrisford Agenda: 4.2/7 share
12. Borrowed Time: 3.7/6 share
13. Harbor Lights: 3.2/5 share
14. Love In Vein: 3.7/6 share
15. Fuhgeddaboudit: 3.5/6 share
16. Exposure: 3.9/7 share
17. Hello, Goodbye: 3.4/6 share
18. Dawg Day Afternoon: 3.4/6 share
19. She Ain't Heavy: 3.4/6 share
20. Love Among the Runes: 3.4/6 share
21. Freak Nation: 3.8/7 share

Da s1 was shown on Tuesdays but even so these are damn good ratings so I dont think the "sent to friday to die" theory works. I think it far more likely they thought they had a winner which could handle a poor slot like friday but realised halfway through s2 they had a sinking ship.

note the difference between s2ep1 and the finale (a big hour and a half , heavily advertised, directed by James Cameron)

If Firefly survives I wouldn't be surprised if it receives a higher rating for it's season one finale because unlike Dark Angel it's ratings are growing not dropping.

Firefly@Trekvideo.com
http://www.trekvideo.com/firefly

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Sunday, November 10, 2002 2:55 AM

LIVINGIMPAIRED

I'm suddenly reassured. After all, BTVS didn't do so hot in S1, but in S2, it really hit its stride. Perhaps Fox is not only accounting for that with Firefly, but also betting on it.

________________

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

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Sunday, November 10, 2002 3:09 AM

PEAK

Don't know how feasable this is but:

What if FOX said no to further episodes IN SEASON 1. Then reair all of them during the spring (With the pilot) in a new timeslot and see if the move will draw in more viewers. And when that shows that the show succeeds (as I know it would... ;)), greenlight a second season (and third, fourth, fifth, sixth... Oh h*ll, why not try to beat X-Files at least...)...

//Peak

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Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:00 AM

OUTLANDER

First of all I'd like to say hi to all the Firefly fans this is my first post on this forum, I'm an Australian Fan of the show and I have downloaded ever episode I can get my hands on. I am currently downloading "Out of Gas" and it's got about 15 hours to go before I can watch the whole episode, I can't wait. Secondly I'd like to give two reasons why Dark Angel was cancelled (1) The show was always going over budget and (2) The show had no clear direction apart from down (In the rating). These are two things that can not be said about Firefly. Thirdly, my suggestion to attracting a larger audience is for them to have a ‘Previous on Firefly’ at the start of the show to give people a bit of back story to attracted their interest, this works well for Buffy and Angel.

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Sunday, November 10, 2002 10:45 AM

INVISIBLEGREEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Delvo:
We all keep on being reminded of the Dark Angel legend, but it's substantially different in at least a couple of ways. One is that profit isn't alone in motivating the networks; there's prestige too, which Dark Angel didn't have, while Firefly is critically acclaimed and its fans are just as loyal as Dark Angel's (only with better reason). Also, and perhaps much more importantly, I just found out that Dark Angel started on a different day, built up its audience in the better market, and then moved to Friday (possibly to be killed for having never gotten good enough ratings by any other day's standards). And the competition and replacement scenarios were also different back then.

Actually, Firefly generates a higher profit than DA did. While Firefly is a very expensive show, DA was even more expensive.

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Sunday, November 10, 2002 10:59 AM

DARKANGELSLAYER

Quote:
We all keep on being reminded of the Dark Angel legend, but it's substantially different in at least a couple of ways. One is that profit isn't alone in motivating the networks; there's prestige too, which Dark Angel didn't have, while Firefly is critically acclaimed and its fans are just as loyal as Dark Angel's (only with better reason). Also, and perhaps much more importantly, I just found out that Dark Angel started on a different day, built up its audience in the better market, and then moved to Friday (possibly to be killed for having never gotten good enough ratings by any other day's standards). And the competition and replacement scenarios were also different back then.

Ok, why do you people have to keep picking on Dark Angel? I mean, if you just found out that Dark Angel started on a Tuesday then you've never watched it, have you, so how would you know if FF fans have better reason to love FF than DA fans with DA? And I'm sorry, but FF isn't really that critically acclaimed, I've read lots of bad reviews, and critical acclaim doesn't really matter if the ratings never improve. And "back then" was several months ago, so things weren't that different.

I'm not a DA troll or anything, but I love DA too and I hate how I can't go into a FF or DA site without people dissing the other show. I mean, come on, saying how much FF sucks won't bring back DA, and saying how much DA sucks won't exactly help FF.

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Sunday, November 10, 2002 11:34 AM

DELVO

Quote:
Ok, why do you people have to keep picking on Dark Angel?

I'm not, I'm just pointing out that the situations are different, so nothing about Firefly's fate can be inferred from Dark Angel's.

Quote:
I mean, if you just found out that Dark Angel started on a Tuesday then you've never watched it, have you, so how would you know if FF fans have better reason to love FF than DA fans with DA?

Simple. I have watched it, and I just never memorized its schedule. It didn't make me want to remember so I wouldn't miss any episodes like Firefly does.

Quote:
critical acclaim doesn't really matter if the ratings never improve.

It does; like I said, there's a prestige issue; networks keep lower-rated shows if they take pride in their reputed quality anyway, especially when that reputed quality is in an intellectual aspect of the show (as opposed to "great action" or "hot chick"). Not my decision or something I'm going to say is entirely profitable for their business, but it happens anyway.

Quote:
And "back then" was several months ago, so things weren't that different.

No, back then was when dark Angel had the wonderful ratings everyone keeps talking about, when it started.

Quote:
saying how much DA sucks won't exactly help FF.

I didn't do that and I don't have that motivation. Your case would be helped by your not making things up. For one thing, I liked Dark Angel more often than I didn't, but merely wasn't as impressed with it as I am with Firefly; I could say the same for many other shows. Also, I am not under the delusion that anything I can say will influence Firefly's fate one way or the other; I'm just shedding some light on the invalidity of the comparison of the two shows' ratings as a predictor of what will become of Firefly.

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Sunday, November 10, 2002 3:03 PM

PERSEPHONE

hi DarkAngelSlayer,

I don't think anybody's picking on it exactly, they are just holding the two shows up for comparison. I watched Dark Angel from the first episode, and I liked it a lot at first, then I slowly began losing interest. And I'm sorry, and this is just my opinion, but by the second season that show had gotten completely ridiculous. I remember being very disappointed in the direction DA had taken. But I was still sorry to see it go, especially considering it's loyal fanbase. You're right about the negative reviews for FF, I've read them too. BUT one thing I've noticed is that some critics are already starting to change their minds. FF is just the kind of show that grows on you. Some critics don't want to give it the chance. Anyway, I agree with you about how annoying and tiresome it is listening to a bunch of immature idiots dissing each other's shows, but I really don't think that's what was going on in this particular thread. We're just trying to figure out what the chances are for FF's survival by comparing it to another show that FOX cancelled.

Another difference between FF and DA...DA had so much hype going for it before it ever aired that got people excited about it...FF got a bad reputation from the start, what with FOX's axing of the original pilot. It seems like it's been nothing but one obstacle after another for Firefly.

Warrick: You didn't have to wound that man.
Mal: Yeah, I know. It was just funny.

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