Mal knows who Book is. by Piersnica

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Mal knows who Book is.

POSTED BY: PIERSNICA
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 23:10
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VIEWED: 7370
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Monday, June 21, 2004 9:07 AM

As I was lying in bed last night digesting all the genetics info I need to know for my exam tonight, it occured to me that whoever Book is, Mal knows. He hasn't made a move against him because 1. He was a paying customer, 2. Mal deemed him not a threat.

The "You're a shepherd?" line never quite sat right with me; from Book's reaction, a shepherd's robes should distinguish him, and Mal's certainly been around enough to know what people look like in certain professions; he is very observant. His comment seemed to be somewhat incredulous, and less a question than almost an accusation (imo). He was surprised to see whoever Book was on his ship and dressed as a shepherd.

As far as Book's identity, I initially rebelled against the idea that he was an Alliance General, mostly because Mal and Zoe should've recognized him, but assuming Mal knows his real identity, everything falls into place.

Sorry if this is old news, but I got excited by the epiphany.

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Monday, June 21, 2004 9:14 AM

EMBERS

well personally I'm guessing that Seargents in one army have little or no clue what the enemies Generals look like, unless they are actually on TV or something... It isn't like the General ever actually gets his hands dirty.

I still think Books secrets are secret, to everyone except Early and River...

JMPO

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Monday, June 21, 2004 9:17 AM

PIERSNICA

I just spoke to a friend of mine who got back from Iraq; he was an enlisted man of some sort (I'm horrible with military ranks), but I know he was below a Sergeant. He said that they were all briefed on the Iraqi high-ranking officials, and they all saw pictures of said individuals. I asked him this specific question, and he answered that such a person should know what the General who masterminded one's defeat looked like, especially if this guy's the equivalent of Schwarzkopf or something.

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Monday, June 21, 2004 9:35 AM

RIJPE

I don't think that Mal knows who Book is, but I think that he senses that Book is on some sort of path of redemption.

I think it is in "Safe," after Book is operated on, that there is a moment between Mal and Book where Mal says something like "Would you like to tell me how a preacher knows so much about X?"
Book replies "I surely would. Maybe someday I will."

Makes it pretty clear that Mal doesn't know who Book is, but trusts that Book's secret isn't a threat to the crew.

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Monday, June 21, 2004 9:59 AM

PIERSNICA

That's a good point; though I still don't believe Mal ever thought that Book was really a Shepherd. I mean, he may be a shepherd, but it's not his life, or wasn't always, and I think Mal clued into that very early on.

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Monday, June 21, 2004 10:16 AM

CARDIE

I think most of the crew, like most of the fans, don't believe for a minute that Book has always been a shepherd. But that's different from knowing what his past identity and pursuits were.

Cardie

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Monday, June 21, 2004 12:24 PM

EVERYWORLDSPINNIN

This makes you have to wonder about what Early mentioned to Simon when he said, "That's not a shepherd." after Simon found him unconscious. Also, he could pop two guys in the knees with his weapon from shooting at rabbits? I think there was certainly something else going on with Book.

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Monday, June 21, 2004 1:14 PM

QUICKSAND

The tricky langauge in there, and how you're going to convince me is... How does Mal know, and Zoe doesn't?

o.O

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Monday, June 21, 2004 1:33 PM

RELFEXIVE

Could be that Mal's more talkative about it... or that Zoe's just a lot more sneaky than he is

Mal: "We're not gonna die. We can't die, Bendis. You know why? Because we are so... very... pretty. We are just too pretty for God to let us die."

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Monday, June 21, 2004 3:22 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

IMO, the simplist answer is often the best. Mal makes it clear what the thinks of religiosity and the like. So, when Mal asks Book if he's a Shepherd, I think he's doing it to make it clear he's not impressed w/ religion in general. Clearly, Shepherds are easily recognizable, probably just less so than Companions, so Mal is showing a slight of indifference to Book's profession. Kinda like .. " Oh, is THAT what you are....gee, how nice for you. " sort of attitude.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, June 21, 2004 3:50 PM

PIERSNICA

If Mal knows, Zoe knows. But Zoe toes the line with unwavering fidelity to her Cap'n, so if Mal's being mum about it, Zoe will follow suit.

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Monday, June 21, 2004 4:42 PM

BUZZARD

Speaking of things that don't sit well: I never understood why Book was so wrecked at the end of "Serenity". If he's such a man of action who can punch out a cop or kneecap somebody, why is he to point of tears when he realizes he's part of a crew of criminals.

I tend to think that Book was never a warrior as such, but I have no idea what else he could be.

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Monday, June 21, 2004 4:49 PM

TALONPEST

Mal doesn't know. Remember in Safe when Mal asks "what kind of ident card gets that kind of treatment from the Alliance?" or something to that effect (my DVDs are loaned out, otherwise I'd have the exact quote). Then later when Book wakes up Mal asks him about it and Book declines to say. And I have a feeling that if Mal DID know who Book was he never would have let him on the ship in the first place for any amount of money.

My theory: Book wasn't a general, he was a gestapo secret police kind of guy. He served as judge, jurry and executioner. It's the only thing that makes sense taking into account all the clues they've given us. A general wouldn't have known much about Niska or a carrion shop, but Book did. And of course there's the big tip from Objects In Space: "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not. Now where does that put you?" People wouldn't be claiming to be innocent to a general, now would they? Book was judging alleged criminals and carrying out punishment.

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Monday, June 21, 2004 4:53 PM

STATIC

I agree with this theory WAY more than I agree with the notion that Book is AKA General Richard Wilkins, who commanded alliance forces at Serenity Valley. . .for more than one reason. . .but the biggest reason of those is. . .

That would be WAAAAAAAAAAAY to 'tidy' a little package for Joss's style.

It also doesn't justify his intimate knowlege of crime.

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

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Monday, June 21, 2004 4:53 PM

TALONPEST

Buzzard- Book had become a Shepard to try to make up for his horrible deeds in his previous line of work. When he'd left the abby, he set out to do good to redeem himself, but ended up on the wrong side of the law right off the bat. That's why he was upset.

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Monday, June 21, 2004 5:26 PM

SHINYSEVEN

Although "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not" is also something a defense lawyer would say.

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Monday, June 21, 2004 6:19 PM

TALONPEST

How many defense attornies are trained in hand to hand combat (Serenity) and familiar with military weaponry (War Stories)?

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Monday, June 21, 2004 6:45 PM

CGREALMS

I think the plan for Book changed mid-course. While I agree with the general consensus that Book wasn't always a preacher, the only thing that doesn't jive with a shadier past is Book's moral indignation in "Serenity" (the pilot, not the BDM). He seemed genuinely shocked about the proceedings in a way that the knee-cap bustin', Alliance VIP-card carrying Book wouldn't be.

Adam

EDIT: Reading more closely, pretty much what BUZZARD said

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Monday, June 21, 2004 6:45 PM

CGREALMS

double post. *buries head in shame*

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Monday, June 21, 2004 10:06 PM

CAPTSTORM

There are many clues for those of us who know Book is more than he seems. So I felt I had to give my two cents so here goes. How does a preacher know so much about crime? I would say the answer is he was a detective in some sort of police dept. the clues are not only his knowledge of people like Niska and the newer nets. Also the clue given in Objects in space about not giving a hump about innocence or not. I also noted in one scene in the dining area his clothes. Being x-military myself I noticed the alignment of shirt to trousers and the centering of his belt buckle. This is the way they taught us to dress and it sticks with you, I would assume a police academy would do the same. Early in “Objects in Space” may have recognized him and in “Serenity” the fed may also recognize him thus his brutal beating all point to a cop gone bad. Thus his mission of redemption. Perhaps his gunho attitude did lead to the taking down of a true innocent driving him to the abbey. Well anyway these are just my opinions and I do hope the Movie answers these questions for us all including the reason for Inara leaving the companion home and what was in the needle she broke out when she thought the Reavers were about to board. After all I think Zoe answered the mystery of River she’s a psychic assassin. We’ll see in the move or else have more to speculate about.
Also Mal may sense the military trainning but I don't think he Knows.

Keep Flying

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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 4:20 AM

CARDIE

Quote:
My theory: Book wasn't a general, he was a gestapo secret police kind of guy. He served as judge, jurry and executioner.

I agree with that, too. He seems to have been some sort of enforcer sent out to track down criminals and bring them in, often dead rather than alive.

My current theory is that the Operative character in the BDM will turn out to be one of Book's former colleagues.

Cardie

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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 4:43 AM

SHINYSEVEN

Anyone in the JAG Corps, f'rex.

When I was in law school I had a most unwarlike boyfriend who had somehow managed to get drafted into the Marines (don't ask me how that happened, the USMC was supposed to be volunteers-only even then).

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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 5:20 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I think it is safe to assume that Mal knows that Book was not always a Shephard. I think we can also say the Mal realizes that Book has a lot of knowledge of people & things in the world of crime and politics that the average person should not know.

I do believe that Mal will keep an eye on Book, but in his mind Book has earned his place on the crew through his actions. If Mal thought he was a threat he would have put him off the boat.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 5:23 AM

TALVIN

Quote:
Originally posted by buzzard:
Speaking of things that don't sit well: I never understood why Book was so wrecked at the end of "Serenity". If he's such a man of action who can punch out a cop or kneecap somebody, why is he to point of tears when he realizes he's part of a crew of criminals.

I tend to think that Book was never a warrior as such, but I have no idea what else he could be.

Eh, I have to disagree. From a very personal point of view.

At the risk of oversharing, I will say:
I have been beaten until I puked up blood, purely for another individual's amusement.
I have stared down the barrel of a loaded .357 Magnum in the hands of my roommate who thought he was back on that beach in Central America with his Force Recon unit. And talked him into giving it to me.
I have talked several teenagers out of suicide.
I have (in self-defense) attempted to kill someone with my bare hands, and if the odds had not been 4 to 1, I would have succeeded.
I have initiated CPR on a 16-year-old kid (who was dead before he hit the ground. Enlarged Heart Syndrome is quick and unforgiving.) and then had to turn around and go back to work immediately afterwards.
At one time, I had a leather thong I wore on my wrist with knots tied in it along the length. Each knot represented another woman or child that I knew personally that had been beaten, raped, or otherwise abused. When it got to over 30 knots, I took it off and swore never again. That ain't healthy, people.

And these are just the things I feel comfortable enough to share.

My point? Book went into an Abbey after whatever he did. He ran away from the world he knew and found a new one. Then he decided (or was told? We know little about the church hierarchy and governance) to go out and walk the world awhile.

And it all came back to him. He found himself in the thick of it--again.

Trust me. I speak from personal experience. If he had NOT sat down after it was all over and in relative safety, and had a good cry...he would be one seriously scary person.

I was. I finally did what he did. And those around me breathed a great sigh of relief.

That guy who was in Force Recon? I was scaring HIM. His words. And he has a Silver Star to his credit....

So, yes...that IS the response of a "warrior", or at least someone who has "seen the elephant", if they are to retain their sanity.

"I give up. I admit it. I'm a Browncoat."

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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 6:17 AM

SHINYSEVEN

Replying to Browncoat1: I bet that when Mal saw Book use his "Get Out of Jail Free" card, he thought that if things went one way, he'd be a useful friend. And if they went another way, he'd be a useful hostage.

I think Book's reaction in the episode "Serenity" was sort of like somebody who blinks after going into the sunshine from a dark room. First the peace of the Abbey--now this!

"Every time he thinks he's OUT they pull him back IN."

"Sadistic crap legitimized by florid prose"

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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 6:38 AM

SERENITY2005

I think Book is supposed to be the opposite of Mal.

Mal was religous before/during the war and turned away after the battle of Serenity. Remember him kissing the cross in the episode with the "dead" guy.

Book was bad before the war and turned to religion after.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 7:33 AM

TALLGRRL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
IMO, the simplist answer is often the best. Mal makes it clear what the thinks of religiosity and the like. So, when Mal asks Book if he's a Shepherd, I think he's doing it to make it clear he's not impressed w/ religion in general. Clearly, Shepherds are easily recognizable, probably just less so than Companions, so Mal is showing a slight of indifference to Book's profession. Kinda like .. " Oh, is THAT what you are....gee, how nice for you. " sort of attitude.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

That was sure my take on his comment.
It wasn't like he was asking Book if he was a shepherd. (And Book did say "I thought the collar gave it away.") Mal was stating the obvious, setting Book up for the "ambassador" intro to Inara. ("She's a whore.")
As much as he dislikes the whole companion thing, he's even less interested in having a preacher on his boat.
Mal's kind of a self-righteous prig, but his heart's in the right place: He looks down on Companions as immoral...but he's also been deeply disappointed by and no doubt feels abandonded by his "god".
He's got baggage...but he's nonetheless intriguing.
And then there are those tight pants.

"Take me, sir. Take me hard."

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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 7:37 AM

TJACK

I made the guess somewhere else on this site that Book was a bounty hunter, much like Early is now.
It would explain the training, the knowledge of criminal matters, Early's recognition, River's flash, and if he worked for the Alliance version of the Dept. of Justice even the medical asstance.
Also if you want to break the main characters into western movie archtypes.
Mal ...The John Wayne hero
Zoe ... The trusty Deputy
Inara ...Miss Kitty
Kaylee ...The blacksmith
and so on then Book fits as the "Preacher who used to be a gunslinger."

When faced with a moral question I ask myself; "What would The Lone Ranger do?"

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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 9:07 PM

TALONPEST

The bounty hunter theory works until you deal with the fact that his ident card got him special treatment on an Alliance cruiser. It just doesn't make sense that the Alliance would hold any bounty hunter, regardless of whether he'd worked for them in the past, in such high regard. Book must have worked for them in an offical capacity, and a high-level one at that.

As for Early's recognition, if you watch the commentary for Objects In Space, Joss states clear as day that Early doesn't know who Book is, but as an opposite of River and boarderline psychic he was able to discern that whoever Book was he was no preacher.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 11:10 PM

BIGDAMNHERO

I can't wait for the movie, because ever since River read Book's mind in OIS - I have needed to know Book's history. I think I have boiled it down to this though:
First, his mind-read seems to be delivered viciously, but if you just read the words, it's really about apathy toward River and her situation (which seems to concern everybody else on the ship deeply in some way). I think he's just saying he doesn't care at all, probably because he is consumed by his pursuit of redemption.

I am on-board with the idea that he was this General Richard Wilk??? guy, especially considering the scene was cut from the episode. He definitely made his choice to take Kaylee's offer after she mentioned the name of the ship. People here have mentioned his knowledge of "crime" but in my mind it is just a knowledge of war/violence and the tools thereof (and remember the "crime" reference came from Jayne). The Alliance surely had carrion houses to destroy and process the parts from captured Independent vessels and a General would be aware of their use and capabilities. Also, he can read charts and radar signals which are not really the tools of a sniper or warden (he knows what he's looking at in Our Mrs. before Mal says it - great acting, watch Book's reaction during the scene... just waiting for someone else to say it so he doesn't have to reveal what it is directly!) He has a sound knowledge of tactics and political implications (The Message). His reception by the Alliance in Safe really couldn't be explained by any other military role than a General, and the lack of reaction from the PB in Bushwhacked could be attributed to his "first tour" on the border - the guy clearly wasn't key in the war and seemed like more of an aristocrat who achieved rank not by skill or knowledge but by his breeding (too self absorbed maybe to notice Book's credentials if Book even showed him at all, which I doubt). His knowledge of Niska again is at a level that a military General would have - an understanding of various resources or liabilities to conducting a war (maybe he even contracted with Niska during the war for interrogations?).

So my take is he is ultimately responsible for the carnage at Serenity Valley and his guilt for that drove him to the Abbey after the war. In Out-of-Gas we see he's afraid to die (lack of true faith) so he's not that good of a Shepherd on a personal level and most of his "good" deeds can be interpreted as selfish, as in not altruistic but aimed at his own redemption. So consumed by this personal mission that he is indifferent to River's predicament. That indifference also leads me to discount the possibility that he's on any side of the River question. Besides, River would have already sensed his true intent were he in deep cover.

I like the symmetry that his war-time/peace-time relationship with Mal forms if he was that General. They would have both been changed in opposite directions because of Serenity Valley (faith lost/faith found) externally, but internally their motivations are what they always were (Mal may not believe, but his actions are still noble, while Book's actions have the subtext of selfishness). And here they are, full-circle, waiting for a confrontation that could mean revival for Mal and atonement for Book.

Sorry for being long-winded ("I sometimes go on"), but this will probably be my only post. Thanks everyone for your ideas and keeping the world of Firefly alive!

"Oh my god, it's hideous... oh and there's something in a jar."

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