I scoffed @ Enterprise. What's up with Farscape? by truk

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

I scoffed @ Enterprise. What's up with Farscape?

POSTED BY: TRUK
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 6, 2004 08:05
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VIEWED: 8925
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Friday, January 23, 2004 4:10 AM

Buck Rodgers in the 25th Century? With bad guys you don't understand? The Death Star is near, lol. No new ground here, imo.

Alone in a trap?...watch The Prisoner. Patrick McGoohan had balls, Farscape does not. A blue chick and some painted-on cleavage?

I actually prefer Lexx over this crap.

I watched the 1st season and it seems pretty ho-hum to me. Firefly has far superior dialogue, character development and plot. The universe is interesting.

Farscape, in one boring season, equals recycled & unsuccessful Heinlein to me.

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Friday, January 23, 2004 4:19 AM

CAPNRAHN

Lexx ... man ... you must have "Lowered Expectations" ...

So, I'l ask - what do you think is a GREAT show, other than our shared (I assume) like/love of Firefly?

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Friday, January 23, 2004 5:32 AM

TRUK

I'm asking for answers not questions. Did I scare you with my prejudice?

Edit: Yet, an answer to your question remains in my original post. Check again.

"I'm like a Phoenix...reborn again...rising from Arizona!" - Frank Costanza

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Friday, January 23, 2004 5:42 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Never really cared for Farscape myself. I have a friend that watched it every week and really got into it. He tried to get me hooked, but it just didn't catch my interest. The characters just seemed to lack...........a certain chemistry I guess.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Friday, January 23, 2004 6:10 AM

CAPNRAHN

No fear, just not understanding your pre-judging ... I don't like Bab 5, but I have several friends who do and we discuss/debate our differing perspectives.

Now if you just want to get into a shouting match. I really don't want to waste my time.

I am not trying to 'convert' you - just understand your perspective.

Can't do that with vague complaints.

About the shows, I did mean something current within the last 10 years maybe.

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 9:15 AM

DIGITALOUTBREAK

I love firefly because the characters are all really "there" and you feal like you know them.

I love farscape aswell because its a great scifi show, the character development is a little bit better in firefly, but I still love watching farscape for all of the wonderful contributions its brought to the genera.

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 9:46 AM

PBGAINES

I think that previous Farscape criticism about the lack of character chemistry was uncalled-for. That lack of chemistry was the point--to have characters at each other's throats and acting desperate.

I find myself uncomfortable with Farscape's obsession with the high concept plotting. Every story has to be acceptable for the 10-year-olds; so it's all way cool or way boogie-man or way cool, etc: living spaceships (having kids), American astronauts talking to Muppets, a hero haunted by the ghost of a Darth Vader character, sexual tension up the yin-yang, etc.

Farscape is quite exciting and fun, but I would just hope for a bit less heavy breathing.

BTA,

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 11:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

First, lets make one thing clear. IMO, Firefly is in a class by its self- no duh. Nothing else compares.
Having said that, I liked Farscape. I can't help but notice the similarities between it and Lexx ( living, symbiotic ships ). I could not stand Babylon 5. It seemed artificial in a cookie cutter fashion.

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 11:56 AM

APEMAN61

go to hell. short but to the point

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 12:04 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Having said that, I liked Farscape. I can't help but notice the similarities between it and Lexx ( living, symbiotic ships ). I could not stand Babylon 5. It seemed artificial in a cookie cutter fashion.

Ouch. See, I can trace my SF back to classic Trek (reading the episode short stories first, and then wondering why they seemed so familiar when I saw them), then TNG. B5 was the eye-opener for me, because it was written SF on the TV.

The sweep of B5 was what interested me, and its very interesting to wonder what shape TV SF would have taken had it not been around. Arc stories are now all the rage, and its accepted that an audience can be trusted to stay around and keep up - Farscape's arc got so complex I could barely keep up if I missed an episode.

Not that I'm complaining, mind. Aeren and John's relationship was done on a pretty adult level, similar to how Zoe and Wash's might have gone. In fact, apart from the no aliens, Farscape and Firefly have a lot in common - a dysfunctional family dynamic. Farscape could get seriously hard SF, which I suspect Firefly wouldn't have done.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 1:19 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by truk:
Buck Rodgers in the 25th Century? With bad guys you don't understand? The Death Star is near, lol. No new ground here, imo.

True, the Buck Rogers reference was there, but in part this was a show about an SF savvy person being thrown into the future.

Quote:
Alone in a trap?...watch The Prisoner. Patrick McGoohan had balls, Farscape does not. A blue chick and some painted-on cleavage?

I never saw puppet sex on The Prisoner. How much of the later Farscape did you see? Your post implies you stopped watching after that. I have to say the first season did very little for me, but as they went on, they really took risks and did some great stuff.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 1:53 PM

TALONPEST

I've just started watching the first season of Farscape. So far it's not bad, but not outstanding like Firefly was- I've seen almost as many episodes of Farscape as there are of Firefly, and I'm not nearly as hooked.

I do like that they don't take themselves seriously. That's one thing that it has in common with Firefly- the self-mockery of the genre. And I like that they use puppets for the aliens instead of exclusively using bumpy foreheads.

But (and this is based on the first half season, remember) I find the characters to be inconsistant. One minute they're all buddy buddy and the next they hate each other. Firefly was much more consistant- Jayne and Simon are hardly ever civil (for that matter, no one but Book really pretends to enjoy Jayne's company). Mal doesn't particularly like Simon either, and they're consistant about it.

And for some reason, while Farscape goes to great lengths on some aliens to make them look non-human, on others they don't even make an effort. The Peacekeepers are just humans who don't like heat. Oh, and I also thought it was a little silly that Jon Crichton was able to hold his own in one on one hand to hand combat against a guy who'd trained as a warrior all his life.

And finally, almost all of the plots they've been using on Farscape may as well be Star Trek plots. Most of them have been done by Star Trek already, or at least a variation of them, which makes it seem a little tired. Firefly on the other hand used plot variations from old westerns (with some X-Files thrown in), which haven't been done quite so recently. While it's obviously not that fundamentally original, no one's done a western in so long it may as well be original.

But I'll keep watching Farscape. It's not great (yet) but it's entertaining. What else am I going to watch, Enterprise? Bleh.

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 2:08 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by Talonpest:
But (and this is based on the first half season, remember) I find the characters to be inconsistant. One minute they're all buddy buddy and the next they hate each other.

That's a fair criticism, but has a lot to do with the ethos of the show. It actually retains the culture clash angle for most of its lifespan, and so the characters butt heads constantly. Also, they are all, to a lesser or greater extent, a little bit mad.

John Crichton's character is one of the few examples where the lead is genuinely most interesting than the support.

Quote:
And for some reason, while Farscape goes to great lengths on some aliens to make them look non-human, on others they don't even make an effort. The Peacekeepers are just humans who don't like heat.

That's actually the point - means the Crichton gets mistaken for a Nazi everywhere he goes.

Quote:
And finally, almost all of the plots they've been using on Farscape may as well be Star Trek plots. Most of them have been done by Star Trek already, or at least a variation of them, which makes it seem a little tired.

Again, a fair point, although Farscape's take in later seasons has some very original stuff, and generally does not go down the expected route. Tired is one word I never thought I hear when Farscape was mentioned!

Quote:
Firefly on the other hand used plot variations from old westerns (with some X-Files thrown in), which haven't been done quite so recently. While it's obviously not that fundamentally original, no one's done a western in so long it may as well be original.

Actually, I thought apart from Objects in Space, Firefly's stories were pretty pedestrian (gets ready for the flames). It was the execution of tired stories which made them work.

Keep on with Farscape - it does find its feet in the second season.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 2:24 PM

SAINT JAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by Misguided By Voices:
Actually, I thought apart from Objects in Space, Firefly's stories were pretty pedestrian (gets ready for the flames).

As you wish.

But that's hard to argue. Really, there are no new stories, just reshaped versions of traditional ones. It's all in how you tell the story.

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 2:50 PM

DESANGRO

Quote:
Actually, I thought apart from Objects in Space, Firefly's stories were pretty pedestrian (gets ready for the flames). It was the execution of tired stories which made them work.

Keep on with Farscape - it does find its feet in the second season.

"I threw up on your bed"

I can see what you're saying there. All those big deserts can get rather tiresome to look at--I really liked it that in "The Message" they were on a wintery-lookin' planet!

The bare bones of Firefly (e.i. heroic and sometimes antiheroic people being oppressed and chased by a Big Mean Dictactorship; a fugitive with a dark secret or hidden powers) have been done before. They're not new. And Farscape is essentially a fish-out-of-water show. What makes these shows great is the way they play with conventions, and boast great characters and clever dialogue. The X-Files used ripped from the tabloid headlines plots, but it was the interaction of the heroes and villains that made us care about the show. (For a while, anyway.)

Firefly is my favorite of the two--Farscape is hard to warm up to, given the few amount of eps I've seen--but I thought that the last few episodes of it were very engrossing. So there's my two cents.

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Sunday, January 25, 2004 11:49 AM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by Saint Jayne:
Quote:
Originally posted by Misguided By Voices:
Actually, I thought apart from Objects in Space, Firefly's stories were pretty pedestrian (gets ready for the flames).

As you wish.
But that's hard to argue. Really, there are no new stories, just reshaped versions of traditional ones. It's all in how you tell the story.

Totally agree - whether you agree there are 7, 31 or however many basic stories, everything boils down to the same ingredients.

Take The Message, for example - pretty much every show has the friend from the past who has gone off the rails (and may take advantage of the friendship). Can't think of an example where the friend was dead.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Sunday, January 25, 2004 3:27 PM

VENA

First may I begin with my opinion that the first season of Farscape nearly completely sucked! Boring, Tired, Predictable.

The characters had nearly no consistency and John was the all American super boy who could fix any problem with a little persistence and US ingenuity.

That said, Farscape is tied with Firefly for the position of all time best show in my mind.

The only reason I forced myself to watch season one is because I began watching the show in mid-season three. It seems once season three is underway Farscape came into its own and became good TV.

If any complaints about the characters remain all I have to say to that is watch “crackers don’t matter”. It takes watching everyone descending into madness to finally see there characters cement into a consistent group with fairly predictable (or understandable) dynamics. Frell, who am I kidding? It takes all of season two for that to happen!

Farscape is a show that takes time to really become great. Like River for most people-at first you want to rip her face off, but after you know her you love her so much that you could never see Serenity with out her.

PS-Enterprise makes me want to stab my eyes out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mal:"someone ever ties to kill you, you try to kill'em right back!"

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Sunday, January 25, 2004 5:53 PM

JASONZZZ

Yesh, but can you beat this?
http://reely.com/darren/Photos/Vulcan/

and if someone is going to put my eyes out, it might as well be T'Pol

Quote:
Originally posted by Vena:

PS-Enterprise makes me want to stab my eyes out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mal:"someone ever ties to kill you, you try to kill'em right back!"

Like Fireflyfans.net?
Haken needs a new development system. Donate.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283

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Friday, July 2, 2004 6:46 PM

WHOVIAN222

Quote:
Originally posted by truk:
Buck Rodgers in the 25th Century? With bad guys you don't understand? The Death Star is near, lol. No new ground here, imo.

Alone in a trap?...watch The Prisoner. Patrick McGoohan had balls, Farscape does not. A blue chick and some painted-on cleavage?

I actually prefer Lexx over this crap.

I watched the 1st season and it seems pretty ho-hum to me. Firefly has far superior dialogue, character development and plot. The universe is interesting.

Farscape, in one boring season, equals recycled & unsuccessful Heinlein to me.

You're right, I watched That "The gathering " thing in 1993 and I knew that that babylon 5 show was for losers. You seem unwilling to give the show a chance, It's much better in that latter seasons. I've watched two episodes of firefly and came to the conclsion that it's one of the worst shows I've ever seen. But I could be wrong. Do you think I should give it a chance or watch lexx instead?

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Friday, July 2, 2004 7:40 PM

RADHIL

Farscape hits it stride when it starts getting personal.

The early stuff went for oh-lets-hit-this-cliche-next, and while I found it entertaining enough since it was rather wacky and different and very very irreverent, it didn't have a whole lot of punch. There was genius there, but it only showed in spurts (They've Got A Secret comes to mind, Nerve and the intro of Scorpius to the series was a big boost too - Crais was always too simple a villain).

The series got a lot better in the second season, because it started going for the throat in personal stories. The cliches were still there, but the characters became the focus, and they are some DAMN good characters. The first ep I saw was the Locket, and it still manages to get me when I rewatch it. Season 3 killed me. It is probably the largest emotional roller coaster ever thunk up - you think Mal and Inara have a tortured relationship, you haven't seen crap.

Even Babylon 5 had a rocky first season. That turned into arguably one of the best space epics made. Firefly started with The Train Job for cryin' out loud - an episode that had me amused but not bothering to watch 20 minutes out of 40. Just because something doesn't rip you out of your seat first chance doesn't mean it automatically sucks.

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Friday, July 2, 2004 9:03 PM

JCOBB

Maybe its because I didn't give it much of a chance, but Farscape struck me as the worlds most obvious *bad* sci-fi show (bad as in grade C or below). It just felt like I was watching cliche'd 80's movies.

With Firefly, (nevermind the "cheese" aspect) it felt real. It didn't feel like your traditional show, it felt new and different, and, for a change, good.

Maybe I have just become jaded with the genre, but I think Firefly was my last, and most enjoyed science fiction favorite.

I don't care, I'm still free.

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Saturday, July 3, 2004 2:37 AM

STARPILOTGRAINGER

Farscape is one of the weirdest phenomenons I've ever experienced in SF TV. It's a clear example of the whole exceeding the sum of its parts. By a lot.

Take any individual episode of Farscape and it's not bad. They've got some good humor, and Chrichton is a lot of fun (especially how, since he's so far from home, he tries to ground himself by using all sorts of references from home that you know none of the other crewmates know but they just sort of go along with it), but it's not great or anything.

Somehow, though, the more you watch, the more real it becomes, the more intense things happen, and the more you realize that though they drag up a lot of cliches, they also subvert them in beautiful ways. I'd list some examples, but that might spoil it for those who haven't seen it... I'll just say this... there's one thing that happens, a SF cliche if there ever was one, that if it was almost any other TV show, it'd be resolved at the end of the episode and everything back to normal. This becomes a major plot point for the rest of the season.

They also remember the past (I love that the second time they did the 'Chrichton thinks he's home' plot, the _first_ thing he does is do the things that tipped him off the last time that it wasn't real), which is a big plus in SF shows for me (Stargate also does this well).

The character interactions are a bit unsteady, and inconsistant, but that's because they're still new to each other. Whereas with Firefly, you're basically watching a family... with Farscape, you're watching a bunch of independant people with separate interests and goals, forced together, and winding up developing a (albeit dysfunctional) family. You also get to see some
spectacular development with the villains as well, as what you assume are one-note villains get well-rounded with time, so that you even feel for them.

It is goofy, sometimes, over the top, a lot, and a lot of episodes are a waste of time except to the hardcore fan, but I'm so glad I watched all of this series.

If I do have a complaint, it's that they sometimes jump around between episodes, so even if you're watching every one, sometimes you think you missed one because there's been a jump, or because some revelation that you'd expect be followed up on immediately is put on the back seat while they hang around for an episode, or a long lost character has appeared and been on the ship for several days.

Star Pilot Grainger
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down."
LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/newnumber6

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Saturday, July 3, 2004 7:13 AM

BIKISDAD

Quote:
Originally posted by Talonpest:
I've just started watching the first season of Farscape. So far it's not bad, but not outstanding like Firefly was- I've seen almost as many episodes of Farscape as there are of Firefly, and I'm not nearly as hooked.

I do like that they don't take themselves seriously. That's one thing that it has in common with Firefly- the self-mockery of the genre. And I like that they use puppets for the aliens instead of exclusively using bumpy foreheads.

But (and this is based on the first half season, remember) I find the characters to be inconsistant. One minute they're all buddy buddy and the next they hate each other. Firefly was much more consistant- Jayne and Simon are hardly ever civil (for that matter, no one but Book really pretends to enjoy Jayne's company). Mal doesn't particularly like Simon either, and they're consistant about it.

And for some reason, while Farscape goes to great lengths on some aliens to make them look non-human, on others they don't even make an effort. The Peacekeepers are just humans who don't like heat. Oh, and I also thought it was a little silly that Jon Crichton was able to hold his own in one on one hand to hand combat against a guy who'd trained as a warrior all his life.

And finally, almost all of the plots they've been using on Farscape may as well be Star Trek plots. Most of them have been done by Star Trek already, or at least a variation of them, which makes it seem a little tired. Firefly on the other hand used plot variations from old westerns (with some X-Files thrown in), which haven't been done quite so recently. While it's obviously not that fundamentally original, no one's done a western in so long it may as well be original.

But I'll keep watching Farscape. It's not great (yet) but it's entertaining. What else am I going to watch, Enterprise? Bleh.

Talonpest,

I think we must share the same mind. You've said exactly what I would have wanted to say. So my reply must simply be - "Ditto".

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Saturday, July 3, 2004 9:39 AM

ELVIS

At least Lexx was sexxy, and didn't take itself too seriously.

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Sunday, July 4, 2004 7:56 AM

MER

I can't really say much for Farscape. I have seen a couple of episodes and I think it's a wonderful show, despite me not taking it seriously on the account of Muppets running around-but that's just me. I also liked Lexx because it was funny and at times it seemed to mock at certain Sci-Fi elements. Also, they joked that the woman on board wasn't very attractive which led into a slashy event *laughs*

I don't like Babylon 5, and Star Trek past Voyager, for reasons of something that grabs hold of me like Firefly does.

My post is pretty much useless, so don't mind me. ^_^;;

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Sunday, July 4, 2004 10:28 AM

RICKKER

Okay here's what I thought. I've been a sci-fi fan for as long as I can remember. Anything remotely different I wanted to watch.
Star Trek:tos classic and as a kid it was the best.
Star Trek:tng we were so starved for sci-fi on television we ate it up. It really didn't hit its stride (really good) until 3rd season. Since I was older I noticed that there wasn't much continuaty to the series.
Star Trek:ds9 I was waiting for something like this since tng season 3 cliffhanger. I wanted to see more of the next gen trekverse. Also thios didn't hit its stride until @3rd season. The dominion war space battles rocked.
Star Trek:voy no real arc or anything really new. I stuck around because I watch sci-fi and am a trekki. I heard from someone that the character development suffered so the alien of the week could stand out more. Sad.
Star Trek:enterprize Bad idea from the start. goto the begining and rewrite the history of a show that has one of the most rabid fanbases around. Hell we've already seen the ferengi and borg wo didn't show up untill tng timeline. But I'm a fan so I watch and support what little sci-fi is on. the Andorians rock.
Farscape: Something new and done in a way that caught my attention. definatly improved with time.
Babylon5: First and fifth seasons kinda shaky but the rest of it rocked.
Babylon5:crusade Really looking forward to seing this grow but never got the chance
Stargate sg-1: Between the storylines and dialoge its been a great ride.
Lexx: A bit of a dissapointment for me. After seeing Tales Form A Parallell Universe (which spawned lexx) it was just blah. I'll watch almost anything but I couldn't with this. The one that doomed it for me was the Horror epp.
There is more to be said in detail about each series but I've already taken up enough time. that and I need to get started on yardwork

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Monday, July 5, 2004 9:31 PM

DEWSHINE

You know, its funny that I like Enterprise, Farscape and Firefly.
I like them all.
Of course I watched farscape from the first to the last show when it was on Sci-Fi friday, that may have made a difference. I suggest that you check out the Farscape page on scifi.com and catch up on some of the background stuff. The puppets really do fade into the background as the puppetters hit their stride. And the character develoment grows with each episode.
also there is a 4 part farscape miniseries coming up in October.
I have missed most of the last seacon of Enterprise because my new cable company does not carry UPN. I hear that some of the things they have done with the show are odd.
I miss firefly and I am so glad that Joss got the movie up and going. Maybe Sci-fi can redeem itself and bring back the firefly series if the movie does well.

"To the Threshold." ~~ Riddick, Lord Marshal of the Necromongers. (The TCOR book)

Firefly lives on Morphed into Serenity

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Tuesday, July 6, 2004 7:36 AM

GRATTO

What the frell are you talking abuot. Farscape ROCKED!! I have to admit I do like farscape better then Firefly but I like both.

The only downside of firefly is no aliens. I mean whats a sci-fi show in space without aliens.

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Tuesday, July 6, 2004 8:05 AM

BLUESUNWORSHIPPER

Quote:
Originally posted by truk:
Buck Rodgers in the 25th Century? With bad guys you don't understand? The Death Star is near, lol. No new ground here, imo.

Alone in a trap?...watch The Prisoner. Patrick McGoohan had balls, Farscape does not. A blue chick and some painted-on cleavage?

I actually prefer Lexx over this crap.

I watched the 1st season and it seems pretty ho-hum to me. Firefly has far superior dialogue, character development and plot. The universe is interesting.

Farscape, in one boring season, equals recycled & unsuccessful Heinlein to me.

Okay, gotta jump in here...

First off, if you're going to judge a series, never do it entirely based on the first season. A science fiction series, more than any other, needs at least a season to find it's feet. Very few will argue that the first season of Star Trek: The Next Generation, stank beyond all-git-out, but that later seasons proved it had some merit. Farscape's first season was really a lot better than most, and if you think it was boring, well...you need to have your head examined, but that's just my humble opinion. There's some great stuff going on at the end of the season, I'll leave it at that.

Like some others on the board, I thought there were several 'Firefly' stories in the first part of the season that were very pedestrian, and the show didn't pick up a whole lot for me until "Out of Gas." Of course, since then I've really jumped onto the bandwagon, and gotten others hooked on the show, but never forget that 'Firefly' never gained widespread mass appeal and was cancelled, whereas 'Farscape' managed four seasons and a temporary renewal as a miniseries...all while on a MINOR CABLE NETWORK. It also made the cover of TV Guide no less than three times, a feat which Firefly never matched. Not saying one is better than the other, but if you're gonna tackle what is one of my favorite shows, don't do it while standing on the low ground.

Hey, I love 'Firefly', I own the DVD set, have every eppy on tape, make converts wherever I go...but I don't do it at the expense of other, equally worthy programs. Well, worthy other than 'Lexx', which was the worst show ever.

Worst. Show. Ever.

Okay, so my halo slipped a little there.

If you don't understand a show, don't knock it. Learn from it. The first season of 'Scape was meant to make you think it was a bit pedestrian, giving you stereotypes of the main characters, then turning them on their ear. This is in the best tradition of science fiction television, which includes...again in my humble opinion...Farscape, Firefly, Babylon 5, and Star Trek: DS9.

Put that in your pipe and roll it. Or something.

- T

Oh, and yes, Enterprise does stink. Again with the halo slippage.

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