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Originally posted by PsionTen:
C'mon, I really like the show too, but its doomed. Even with all of the advertising, the ratings for Friday's show didn't even cross the 3.0 barrier. As far as no rumors of cancellation go, that's wrong as well. There's an article on SyFy portal saying that Fox will announce the cancellation as early as Monday.

So long Firefly... it was nice while it lasted.

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Originally posted by Novagrass:
Sure, there's a big possibility that Firefly won't be renewed for the back seven (back seven, not back nine, because they've already ordered 2 more episodes in addition to the original 13 episode package deal),

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Again, all rumors of cancellation are generated by the critics... SyFy Portal doesn't have some all knowing psychic staff, rather, they it runs on rumor and heresay. There is no reason to believe that SyFy Portal has any inside intel unless they've given a source for their information... as it it, everything is pure specula

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And you've got your facts confused. The 2.9/5 rating is an overnight. A couple weeks ago, the overnight for an episode was 2.9/5, but the actual rating ended up a much higher 3.2/6. And again, the only thing we can be sure of is that FOX isn't expecting blow-out ratings. We can be sure of this because it's the only comment the execs have ever released regarding the ratings of Firefly.

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Sure, there's a big possibility that Firefly won't be renewed for the back seven (back seven, not back nine, because they've already ordered 2 more episodes in addition to the original 13 episode package deal), but it's stupid to just give up and accept that it won't be renewed. There's a level of acceptable pessimism, and the negativity some of us have been spewing doesn't bode well for my respect of the Firefly fanbase. It just says to the outsiders that we don't care... it says to Fox "oh, they won't miss the series, they're already accepting defeat."

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So, instead of pessimism and negativity, we should be building hope for the series's future... we should be building an attitude to show Fox that we won't give up Firefly without a fight. This acceptance of Firefly's cancellation (before it's even happened, nonetheless) is making me sick and really testing my faith in the fanbase.

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Again, all rumors of cancellation are generated by the critics... SyFy Portal doesn't have some all knowing psychic staff, rather, they it runs on rumor and heresay. There is no reason to believe that SyFy Portal has any inside intel unless they've given a source for their information... as it it, everything is pure speculation.

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And you've got your facts confused. The 2.9/5 rating is an overnight. A couple weeks ago, the overnight for an episode was 2.9/5, but the actual rating ended up a much higher 3.2/6. And again, the only thing we can be sure of is that FOX isn't expecting blow-out ratings. We can be sure of this because it's the only comment the execs have ever released regarding the ratings of Firefly.

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Sure, there's a big possibility that Firefly won't be renewed for the back seven (back seven, not back nine, because they've already ordered 2 more episodes in addition to the original 13 episode package deal), but it's stupid to just give up and accept that it won't be renewed. There's a level of acceptable pessimism, and the negativity some of us have been spewing doesn't bode well for my respect of the Firefly fanbase. It just says to the outsiders that we don't care... it says to Fox "oh, they won't miss the series, they're already accepting defeat."

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So, instead of pessimism and negativity, we should be building hope for the series's future... we should be building an attitude to show Fox that we won't give up Firefly without a fight. This acceptance of Firefly's cancellation (before it's even happened, nonetheless) is making me sick and really testing my faith in the fanbase.

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Originally posted by PsionTen:

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FOX has given it every opportunity and it's failed -- pure and simple.

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Given it every opportunity??? What planet are you living on? They did nothing to counter months of the negative buzz concerning the "rejected" pilot. They stuck it in one of the worst time slots for a sci-fi show (years of programming data to prove it.) They pre-empted the first 2-3 episodes.
They haven't tried airing it on a better night/time, which they could easily do, and is common practice. How in God's name do you call that "giving it every opportunity"?

I'm sorry, but I just couldn't let the ridiculousness of that statement stand.

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Given it every opportunity??? What planet are you living on? They did nothing to counter months of the negative buzz concerning the "rejected" pilot. They stuck it in one of the worst time slots for a sci-fi show (years of programming data to prove it.) They pre-empted the first 2-3 episodes.
They haven't tried airing it on a better night/time, which they could easily do, and is common practice. How in God's name do you call that "giving it every opportunity"?

I'm sorry, but I just couldn't let the ridiculousness of that statement stand.

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Originally posted by millernate:

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Given it every opportunity??? What planet are you living on? They did nothing to counter months of the negative buzz concerning the "rejected" pilot. They stuck it in one of the worst time slots for a sci-fi show (years of programming data to prove it.) They pre-empted the first 2-3 episodes.
They haven't tried airing it on a better night/time, which they could easily do, and is common practice. How in God's name do you call that "giving it every opportunity"?

I'm sorry, but I just couldn't let the ridiculousness of that statement stand.

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Well as much as I dislike the tone of the original poster I had to agree with them:

1. They promoted the show constantly on American Idol (Fox's big "Everyone in the World is watching" show, much like Survivor for CBS).

2. a Factual Correction: They didn't start to preempt the show until something like the fourth week, at least where I live.

3. No one really changes timeslots anymore, and never with one hour dramas (once in an extraordinarily great while you'll see a sitcom change timeslots but never a drama).

4. Please learn to [ /quote ] when you quote (removing the spaces) as trying to read one huge quoted text is a little distracting.

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Originally posted by millernate:
...especially when it isn't masterminded by the shows creator (bet you didn't know that Roddenberry was responsible for "The spontaneous fan campaign").

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Originally posted by millernate:
No one really changes timeslots anymore, and never with one hour dramas (once in an extraordinarily great while you'll see a sitcom change timeslots but never a drama).

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Roswell basically got picked up for S3 because UPN thought it would go great with Buffy, the fan campaign didn't matter at all.

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millernate sez:

Well as much as I dislike the tone of the original poster I had to agree with them:

1. They promoted the show constantly on American Idol (Fox's big "Everyone in the World is watching" show, much like Survivor for CBS).

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2. a Factual Correction: They didn't start to preempt the show until something like the fourth week, at least where I live.

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3. No one really changes timeslots anymore, and never with one hour dramas (once in an extraordinarily great while you'll see a sitcom change timeslots but never a drama).

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Originally posted by Persephone:
Not necessarily disagreeing with you, just questioning.

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Originally posted by millernate:
No one really changes timeslots anymore, and never with one hour dramas (once in an extraordinarily great while you'll see a sitcom change timeslots but never a drama).

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Do you mean on Fox, or any networks? Because I see programs change slots all the time, especially when they aren't stable. Angel has gone from Tuesday, to Monday, to Sunday, and this season it's ratings are better than ever.

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Roswell basically got picked up for S3 because UPN thought it would go great with Buffy, the fan campaign didn't matter at all.

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I thought Roswell was still on the WB when it got saved, and everything I read about it in the media said that it was the fan campaign that saved it. And then after a season, the WB tried to get rid of it again, which was when UPN picked it up.

And I have to agree that FOX has been kind of lacking when it comes to Firefly. They axed the premiere and moved the show from Sunday to Friday, which created negative buzz from the start. They have been showing the eps out of order which is confusing. Also, even Fox admitted that they should have waited until after playoffs to start the show, instead of showing 3 eps and then pre-empting it. Fox isn't entirely to blame here. They are just a little to blame.

Warrick: You didn't have to wound that man.
Mal: Yeah, I know. It was just funny.

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Originally posted by IlGreven:

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millernate sez:

Well as much as I dislike the tone of the original poster I had to agree with them:

1. They promoted the show constantly on American Idol (Fox's big "Everyone in the World is watching" show, much like Survivor for CBS).

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...'cuz we ALL know dreck like AI is PRIME breeding ground for sci-fi geeks...

I myself think FF has been UNDER-promoed...since the show premiered, the only ad for FF I EVER saw was the one RIGHT AFTER THE SHOW...

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2. a Factual Correction: They didn't start to preempt the show until something like the fourth week, at least where I live.

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And in most markets, there's only been one pre-emption...

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3. No one really changes timeslots anymore, and never with one hour dramas (once in an extraordinarily great while you'll see a sitcom change timeslots but never a drama).

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I can name five in the last five years: Chicago Hope (Wed to Thurs, back to Wed), Dark Angel (Tue to Fri), CSI (Fri to Thur), Ed (Sun to Wed), and NYPD Blue (Mondays with first ep in January to Tuesdays with first ep in September). And in two of them, the change actually AIDED the show (CSI got a great boost from Survivor, and Ed got out of the weekend). There might not be a show that could boost Firefly, but a timeslot change MIGHT give it legs...

I'd rather think they might just change NETWORKS (ship it off to FX, where a 2.9 is considered pretty good...)



"Bye now. Have good sex!"

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Originally posted by outlander:
Why don't we just wait and see what happens. If there is no official word over the next week then we'll know that SyFy Portal's comments are bogus and just the same old rummers that have been floating around for weeks. I think everybody needs to take a couple of deep breaths and then wait for an official word from Fox.

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Originally posted by IlGreven:

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millernate sez:

1. They promoted the show constantly on American Idol (Fox's big "Everyone in the World is watching" show, much like Survivor for CBS).

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...'cuz we ALL know dreck like AI is PRIME breeding ground for sci-fi geeks...

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Well as much as I dislike the tone of the original poster I had to agree with them:

1. They promoted the show constantly on American Idol (Fox's big "Everyone in the World is watching" show, much like Survivor for CBS).

2. a Factual Correction: They didn't start to preempt the show until something like the fourth week, at least where I live.

3. No one really changes timeslots anymore, and never with one hour dramas (once in an extraordinarily great while you'll see a sitcom change timeslots but never a drama).

4. Please learn to [ /quote ] when you quote (removing the spaces) as trying to read one huge quoted text is a little distracting.

Thank you,

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Originally posted by PsionTen:

Firefly was a good show that had a lot of potential but, unfortunately, nobody watched it.

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Ok... it's not cancelled *yet*. At least wait until it is to speak about it in the past tense (if it even does get canned).

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Originally posted by PsionTen:

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Ok... it's not cancelled *yet*. At least wait until it is to speak about it in the past tense (if it even does get canned).

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Ok then... Firefly is a good show with a lot of potential but, unfortunately, nobody is watching it.

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Originally posted by Persephone:
When will we know dammit?

This AOL article had this to say about Ff:
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Fox continues to generate passable ratings on Friday, with "Firefly" hitting some of its best male demos since September and "John Doe" topping its hour in adults 18-34 (preliminary 2.6/10) and all male demos. For the night, Fox led in men 18-34, 18-49 and 25-54.
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FOX wants the male demos, right? At least this news isn't bad.
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copy and paste this if ya want to read the whole thing...

aol://4344:30.LH1D6Jge.7225274.721822638/

Warrick: You didn't have to wound that man.
Mal: Yeah, I know. It was just funny.

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Originally posted by leebee:

AOL's article sounds fairly positive, but there's a blurb on "The Futon Critic" that's sounding the funeral march for Firefly:

www.thefutoncritic.com

"Critical 'firefly' comes up short

It continues to be a tale of two different series on FOX's Friday lineup. "Firefly's" 3.0 rating and 5 share in the metered markets was its worst score to date,

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Originally posted by Jason:
I might be wrong, but I thought Firefly was steadly at 2.9 in the overnights for the last few weeks. That mean's that 3.0 was not it's worst score to date, which of course makes me question the whole article then...

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Originally posted by thefutoncritic:

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Originally posted by Jason:
I might be wrong, but I thought Firefly was steadly at 2.9 in the overnights for the last few weeks. That mean's that 3.0 was not it's worst score to date, which of course makes me question the whole article then...

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Doubt all you want but a 3.0 is its worst overnight score to date. The 2.9 rating you are referring to from before is the fast national rating. They are two different measurements.

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Originally posted by Jason:
Oh, I did not realize that. If I may ask, what is the difference in the two measurements?

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A note about the ratings listed here: Remember that overnight ratings (often referred to as metered market ratings) is the data from "set top boxes" in approximately 20,000 households in 55 of the largest markets in the U.S. (see the complete list). This sample covers 68.96% of all households in the U.S. These "set top boxes" track what is being watched only, not who in the household is watching what (i.e. demographic information). Overnights obviously skew to the urban audience due to the viewership being in the largest markets.

Fast national ratings is the preliminary data from 5,000 "people meters" in households across all 210 markets (see the complete list). This sample covers 100.00% of all households in the U.S. These "people meters" measure not only what is being watched but also who in each household is watching what in order to gather demographic information as well as the number of actual viewers (not just households) watching the program. This preliminary data does not take into account scheduling changes across the country, most notably those in the pacific time zone due to live events such as sports (hence why we list them by time slot, not program). Preliminary (or "fast" as they are more commonly known) national ratings are only available for ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC. After several days, a final national rating and share is determined for all programs on all the broadcast networks (i.e. ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, UPN, the WB and PAX), as well as the total number of viewers (in millions) that watched the program. Final national ratings are generally issued in a weekly report each Wednesday featuring rankings for each program on how it did compared to the rest of the programs that aired in said week.

Since as we mentioned fast nationals are not released for UPN, the WB and PAX we use overnights in our reporting as a means of comparison (at least initially, obviously when the final national rating information is released that's the final word). We feel there's no point in comparing the fast nationals for ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC to the overnights for UPN, the WB and PAX as Zap2It.com does. They are two different pieces of data from two different samples. Overnights and nationals are collected separately so one can see how a show is performing in the specified larger markets (via overnights) and nationally (via nationals).

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Originally posted by SadGeezer:
I think they have to speculate to accumulate and I think that the investment for Firefly is so high (despite it being such a cheap (to produce) show) that they HAVE to let it run to the full series before they can gauge it's success or begin to assess the return on investment. I don't think it's very easy for a company like Fox to commission a series, advertise the hell out of it and then axe it without giving it a chance.

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Although Fox will take an initial hit of about $18 million in costs for 11 unaired episodes of the canceled drama Girls' Club, the rapid decision to abandon the show could save the network as much as $20 million.

The David E. Kelley produced series was averaging only a 3.7 rating/5 share in households after two episodes in its Monday 9 p.m. slot, according to Nielsen Media Research, as well as a low 2.3/5 in adults 18-49. Since Fox had guaranteed advertisers a 9 household share, the show was underdelivering by nearly 45 percent. The network had sold 30-second spots in the upfront for Girls' Club at about $175,000 each. So having to pay makegoods for the remaining 11 episodes at that rate could have cost the network as much as $20 million, media buyers estimated. In addition, the show would have clogged up a key time period during the November sweeps.

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Originally posted by Allronix:
Yet, even though it's probably got a short lifespan, I can't tear myself away from it the way I probably should. It's like a really tasty snack that is bad for you.

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Originally posted by Allronix:
Now, I gotta prep for cancellation like I did with Lone Gunmen/Alien Nation/ BUMMER!!

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And Survivor? American Idol? The Bachelor? Look, if I wanted to see 9 people snipe at each other, I'd get roomies. If I wanted to see a bunch of young things sing Celene Dion, there's a kareoke bar across the street from my apartment. And that last one...(Socilist/Feminist rant )

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Originally posted by Idefix:
are any of you by chance Farscape fans?

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Originally posted by PsionTen:
Yes, but you're talking about credibility and that wasn't the point of my post. The point was that there ARE rumors of Firefly's cancellation... whether you think they are credible or not is your business.

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Originally posted by CHRISSY:
[BSometimes I thing they must just flip a coin or throw darts at a wall chart to determine what stays and what goes if they'll show trash like that instead of enjoyable shows like Lone Gunmen and Firefly.

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Originally posted by benton:
Damn Right!

"The Bachelor" makes me cringe.

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