Firefly - Did the name hamper its success? by MattDillon

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Firefly - Did the name hamper its success?

POSTED BY: MATTDILLON
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 05:26
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5902
PAGE 1 of 1

Friday, July 16, 2004 7:50 AM

Hi, I was just introduced to Firefly by a friend of mine who is a big fan of the Buffy and Angel series. He knew that I would love Firefly based on the fact that I love great writing, character driven scripts, sci-fi and westerns. We watched Serenity and I was hooked. I have since ordered the DVDs and been devouring the episodes.

I think this show is the best science fiction series since the original Star Trek, and has western elements that parallel the great Hollywood westerns like The Magnificent Seven, Gunsmoke, and High Noon. I love it. So why didn't the series succeed initially?

I believe that the answer comes down to marketing choices as simple as the name and the logo used for the title. I know that many people like the name and joke that more descriptive titles seem barbaric when compared the sophistication of the show, but the title fails to communicate the content of the show. When I heard that the creator of "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" had a new show called "Firefly" I incorrectly assumed that it was another "teenagers fight the undead" series. It conjures images of a flying, fire-shooting, demoness (turned-good) fighting crime and vanquishing evil. I immediately forgot about it.

The logo does nothing to dispute this kind of conception. The delicate and fancy script burned onto the screen does not convey the dramatic grittiness of the series. The only way to know about the show is to be told about it and watch it. Based on the fact that Buffy never really interested me I never thought that Firefly would. Boy - I was wrong.

In order to have grabbed my attention the show would have needed a name like "TRANSPORT SERENITY". Had I heard that title it would have grabbed my attention. It conjures an image of a rough and functional vessel, with a purpose, and an emotional depth (conveyed through the ship's name.) If you want to use the delicate script for the word SERENITY then cap it with a rough, square, bolted TRANSPORT above it (in smaller grey letters - overlapping the top of the much larger word SERENITY.)

I don't think it is a coincidence that someone who already loved Joss's work (Buffy and Angel) had to introduce me to Firefly. He knew about it because he was already hooked on Joss's shows because of Buffy. I did not have that advantage, and would only give the show a chance once my buddy explained its virtues. A more descriptive title could have hooked me earlier.

All of this is just my humble opinion. I offer it because I would love to see more shows like Firefly succeed.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, July 16, 2004 8:02 AM

BARCLAY

I think to a point, you're right. The average viewer will not see "Firefly" and think "space western." However, I don't think they'd hear "24" and think "anti-terrorist drama" either. So, it's up to the network putting these shws on the air, if they really want to attract viewers and get people to watch the shows, to market them in a way that shows what the series is about. FuX, of course, didn't do this. In fact, what ads they did show were gross misinterpretations of the true feel of Firefly. Not to mention they didn't air the pilot.

Welcome to the boards, and welcome also, to the Fox-bashing.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, July 16, 2004 8:12 AM

CARDIE

Could I add that "Serenity" as the title of the BDM also worries me, in that it does nothing to tell people who haven't seen the Firefly episodes what sort of movie to expect at all.

I hope that Universal does some really saturation advertising to clear things up, as they did with "The 4400."

Cardie

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, July 16, 2004 8:26 AM

BARCLAY

I think the BDM will be different. Even at $2Mil/episode, Fox spent just $26Mil on Firefly, which they could defer from advertizers. However, Universal is spending at least $50mil. on Serenity, therefore, it's in their best interests to market it in such a way that people will be intrigued and have to go see it (enough of them to buy more than $50mil in tickets).

I think also, we'll see a lot made of in the ad campaign, "the motion picture debut of Joss Whedon, creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer." And that's fine by me, considering the fan base of that show.

Firefly CCG Website
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/FFCCG
Firefly CCG Forum
http://s8.invisionfree.com/FFCCG/

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, July 16, 2004 10:05 AM

KNIBBLET

It makes me think of "Baa Baa Black Sheep" which millions of people mistook for a children's show rather than the semi-autobiographical stories of Pappy Boyington.

It was only when the show's name was changed to "Black Sheep Squadron" that people figured out that this wasn't a romper room kiddie show.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, July 16, 2004 10:32 AM

EVENTHORIZON

Quote:
Originally posted by Cardie:
Could I add that "Serenity" as the title of the BDM also worries me, in that it does nothing to tell people who haven't seen the Firefly episodes what sort of movie to expect at all.

I hope that Universal does some really saturation advertising to clear things up, as they did with "The 4400."

Cardie

Exactly, with the right ad campaign it would rock. Even if they don't explain why Mal named the ship Serenity in the trailer- from someone who's never seen the show, the irony of "petty" crooks who get into fights all the time, who named their ship Serenity I think would be a draw. It would also hint there's more to them than meets the eye.

That is if most people understand what Serenity is.

"Reason told me it was a little too early to plot anything. Besides, I have never had a deep interest in revenge. Revenge is the concern of those who are at some point beaten. I am not beaten, I told myself. No, not beaten. And victory is far more interesting to contemplate than revenge."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, July 16, 2004 10:33 AM

KOZURE

Quote:
Originally posted by Barclay:
I think also, we'll see a lot made of in the ad campaign, "the motion picture debut of Joss Whedon, creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer." And that's fine by me, considering the fan base of that show.

Not EXACTLY his motion picture debut, since he wrote or co-wrote screenplays for the Buffy the Vampire movie, Alien: Resurrection (bleagh) and Titan A.E.

His motion picture directorial debut.

I think the title had a very small part in its failure as a series. If I had to break it down:

3% Not enough explosions for the typical sci-fi viewer.
7% Unfamiliar genre of sci-fi crossed with western
12% Odd series title
17% Confusing order of airing episodes
22% Bad marketing/advertising
39% Utterly nonsensical scheduling

When it first aired on Fox, I tried, I REALLY tried to watch the show. I liked Buffy well enough, but I loved the concept of a gritty, medium-distant (as opposed to near or far-distant) future where people behaved like people and didn't have everything quite worked out yet.

I saw the pilot, The Train Job. It was a little confusing, but I thought to myself (after seeing Crow kicked into the engine) this series has a lot of potential.

Then, for the next few months, I played "find the show" with it hopping all over the weekly timeslots, and frequently being cancelled/pre-empted by Major League Baseball.

Finally, the show lingered in limbo around mid-December, and then the kicker, a Christmas cancellation present.

I think scheduling was the #1 cause of the shows demise, but by no means the only reason.

Kozure the Kamikaze Highlander

Proud Citizen of Canada-That-Was

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, July 16, 2004 10:34 AM

HOBBES

Quote:
Originally posted by Barclay:
Even at $2Mil/episode, Fox spent just $26Mil on Firefly, which they could defer from advertizers.

Two million an episode and twelve million for the two hour pilot.

Oh and as for advertising there is a really old post where I found a futon critic breakdown of how much it cost for advertisers to buy a 30 second spot on various shows. Firefly was in an ok position, 10-odd spots below John Doe. However that price is based (as the guy who runs futon critic informed me) on the show achieving a certain rating as measured by Nielson, which it failed to do. Therefore Fox was forced to pay penalties of some kind to the advertisers.

-------------------------------------------------
May the road rise to meet you.
May the wind be always at your back.
May you be in heaven an hour before
The Devil knows you’re dead.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, July 16, 2004 5:41 PM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Welcome to the board MattDillon. Glad to have you w/ us. It is always great to have a new fan sign up and give us their perspective on the show.

As far as the name "Firefly" goes, I don't think the name really played too much of a role in the show being cancelled. Sci Fi in general does not normally draw a huge following like say a reality show or a C.S.I. show. The little marketing that Fox did showed Firefly was going to be a sci fi show, though it left a lot of blanks on what to expect. Only those familiar w/ Joss's work knew that they were really in for a treat.

The BDM title does not worry me. The fanbase has grown by leaps and bounds since the DVD release. I think that the BDM will be a success and that Firefly will be something to rival Star Trek.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, July 16, 2004 7:45 PM

TIGER

Firefly as a title never turned me off.

True, it didn't tell me everything about the show before I saw it, but I don't think we should follow the Steven Seagal school of movie titles: Hard to Kill, Under Siege, Out for Justice. They all give you a very good idea of what the movie will be like before you see it, even if you didn't know the star.

Many really good movies choose a title that enhances the story or has meaning in the story itself. Take Martin Scorsese for example:
Gangs of New York - do you think pre-civil war slum battles when you see this?
Taxi Driver - wow, this sounds... exciting.

The Age of Innocence - tells us nothing about the story, but makes sense once you see the movie.

Of course, some really good movies have cliche or obvious titles. I don't think Serenity or Firefly are among them. After somebody sees the movie, they may just think it's the name of the ship, but if they think about it more they may realize it's what the characters were searching for all along. Isn't that what art is all about?

Now somebody tell me how wrong I am...

---------------------------------------------
...The beauty of things was born before eyes and sufficient to itself; the heart-breaking beauty
Will remain when there is no heart to break for it.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, July 16, 2004 8:13 PM

SWITCHY

I also worry that "Serenity", in the scrolling font, doesn't demand enough attention. It definitly needs some graphic assistance to convey the intended tone of the story. I hope they try something new with it.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, July 16, 2004 9:56 PM

SLOWSMURF

I've heard various things about the pricing. Some sources say that it was 2 million an episode AFTER the 10 million pilot cost was added in(averages over the series)

Anyway, I think you do have a possible point. But I feel the advertising killed the chances far more than the name. I was, literally, turned off from the show. The ONLY reason I watched it was because John Doe was on with it and I figured what the heck(John Doe had really good advertising, at least to me).

Then look how that turned out...I stopped watching John Doe pretty much the second Firefly stopped appearing. I just didn't care enough about it.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, July 17, 2004 2:25 AM

HORRID

I think like Buffy it sounds really silly when your only given a brief description of what the shows about. you really NEED to see an episode to get that it's good

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, July 17, 2004 2:50 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

The Millennium Falcon.

Now that's a cool name for a smugglers ship. But would that alone draw attention of a movie going public if they had no idea about the story? Clearly, Serenity has some initial issues - yeah, it's also a line of incontinence products - , but those things can quickly be dismissed IF the movie does well enough and gets some decent advertising.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, July 17, 2004 5:59 AM

THELION

I really hope they don't start in with the "made by the guy who made Buffy" thing. Because frankly, I really don't like Buffy--never did, and if they had advertised on Fox that it was made by the same person who made Buffy I would've never watched it during its small-screen run. The advertising needs to instead focus on the characters and the setting, as opposed to the director. (Hasn't anyone noticed that when the "Made By" part of an ad gets more attention than the movie itself, it's never good?)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, July 17, 2004 9:39 AM

SHINY4004

As much as I love the name of Firefly for the series, I have to agree that the name doesn't always convey the message that makes people interested in it. I actually just pulled off my first conversion a few days ago, and my friend was resisting in the beginning just based on the title, because he said he thought it was about teenagers or something. When I explained the premise, he was more than intrigued. After only watching Serenity, he was totally converted

and was even looking around for the set to buy!! (oh and he more than gladly agreed to see the movie when it comes out too) Firefly is definitely a show that has to be introduced by people who love it and understand it because the name doesn't always do it a service. As soon as people see it though, they fall in love with it. (naturally)

"Oh I'm going to the special hell."-Mal

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, July 17, 2004 11:08 AM

SLOWSMURF

To the guy who mentioned the Buffy name, that was definetly Apt. The entire point of the name was so you'd know what you were watching, you wouldn't accidentally watch it and get something different, he fought to keep the name there.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, July 17, 2004 11:42 AM

WHISPERING

No matter what the title is, i'm not gonna be more or less intrested of the serie/movie. For movies its all about the trailer. For series its the TV commercials. Though with Firefly i never saw any commercials, i just started watching it.

I think Serenity is a very good name for the movie. The only name better would have been Firefly.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, July 17, 2004 12:31 PM

GROUNDED

I thought the name was great. It gives a sense of both optimism, with its connotations of light, and insignificance - a tiny ship in a gigantic space. It's not the most explanatory name obviously but I don't think it makes any difference what name a show has if it's marketed properly. I thought the name Buffy was ridiculous when I first heard it but that didn't prevent me from becoming a fan of the show. People who dismissed Firefly based solely on the title don't deserve to see it.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 19, 2004 9:48 AM

MATTDILLON

Thanks for the warm welcome to the board everyone. Firefly fans are obviously a pretty cool group of folks. I look forward to more discussions!

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 19, 2004 10:19 AM

GREGGALLINSON

I couldn't get into Buffy, but when I read about the premise of Firefly on TrekBBS, I was somewhat intrigued. What kept me from watching? Those wha-ha-ha-haaaaacky ads on Fox and the Star Trek Memorial Friday Night Death Slot.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 19, 2004 10:21 AM

GREGGALLINSON

Quote:
Originally posted by SlowSmurf:
To the guy who mentioned the Buffy name, that was definetly Apt. The entire point of the name was so you'd know what you were watching, you wouldn't accidentally watch it and get something different, he fought to keep the name there.

I just got into Buffy recently (after enjoying the Firefly DVDs so much), but the name definitely kept me away. Why? I wondered why it was called Buffy the Vampire Slayer when it seemed like she was always fighting demons. "Buffy the Monster Hunter" or just plain "Buffy" would have been a much better name.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 19, 2004 9:08 PM

MOOSHOO72

Slightly off topic, but this thread got me thinking.. What will the sequels (please oh please oh please oh please) be called? Do you think it would be a subtitle jobby? (Serenity: Still Flyin') or just Serenity 2? or it could be something entirely different like with Pitch Black/Chronicles of Riddick. I loved the fact that the series was named Firefly.. Even though it did nothing to attract me to it initially, it is just the perfect title. With Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel, the show was about those characters (mostly), but with Firefly, the show was really about their family, and what brought and kept them together was Serenity/Firefly class. Withought Buffy or Angel, there would be no show. Same thing with Serenity.

My other ship is a Mid-Bulk Transport Standard Radion Accelerator Core Class Code 03-K64 Firefly.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 19, 2004 9:30 PM

SLOWSMURF

I mostly meant the "Buffy" part of the name that he fought to keep.

The Vampire Slayer is just the mythos they chose, I think it fits perfectly. Monster Hunter makes the show sound worse than it is, Vampire Slayer is much more powerful.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, July 20, 2004 12:46 AM

BLINKER

Quote:
I really hope they don't start in with the "made by the guy who made Buffy" thing. Because frankly, I really don't like Buffy--never did, and if they had advertised on Fox that it was made by the same person who made Buffy I would've never watched it during its small-screen run.

It's a good thing you never saw those ads, because they said it a lot.

"From the creator of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER..." [barrage of rapid-fire action shots]

"From the creator of the critically acclaimed series BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER..." [the words BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER zoom at us through space]

"If you thought the creator of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER gave new blood to vampires..." [the words BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER slowly grow larger] "...wait'll you see what Joss Whedon does to space!"

_________
Sliders: Gate Haven - http://slidersweb.net/blinker

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, July 20, 2004 5:26 AM

CHEWBACCA22

I do agree with you to a certain extent about the name of the show hampering its success. I think the title 'firefly' just doesn't get across what the show is about and how fantastic it is.

But I think a certain network (I shall not name names) should have given Firefly a chance to build on its fanbase (and there obviously is one - who buys the DVDs and votes in the magazine polls!!!)

Here in (not-so) sunny Scotland, I was oblivious to the wonder that is Serenity and its occupants until an enlightened friend pointed me inthe right direction. And he wasn't even a Buffy fan! he just knew a gem when he saw it.

So for now, I'll have to make do with watching the DVD over and over and over...... until someone clever catches on and makes the feature film or re-instates the series!!!

Take Care All

Love Chewbacca22

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER

POST DATE