Thank Joss for Subtext (aka. Ho!Yay!) by JaynesGirlfriend

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Thank Joss for Subtext (aka. Ho!Yay!)

POSTED BY: JAYNESGIRLFRIEND
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 14:46
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VIEWED: 23805
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Wednesday, November 6, 2002 12:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JaynesGirlfriend:
I like it here despite the talk of recessive traits and gay sheep, which I'm completely ignoring in favor of the more fun discussion that's going on here, such as "How gay is Simon?"

lol, ok well you can count on me for HoYay talk! I've never even seen Smallville, but the gayness on Firefly seems pretty apparent to me. I thought when I was watching that a couple of Inara's prospective clients looked like women. I think the fact that a Companion services both sexes has pretty much been implied, not to mention it's quite realistic so far into the future.

And poor Kaylee, with her misbegotten crush on Simon. I wrote a post here a few days ago about how gay Simon is but I think it disappeared when I changed my alias. He's always gazing yearnfully at Mal and Jayne, but seems bored and out of his element with Kaylee. And when Simon saw that Mal had been stabbed he was much more concerned about it than Inara was. He was all, "Are you alright?!" while running up to Mal, practically sweating out of fear. That goes a little above and beyond doctorly concern, if you ask me. In that same episode, Simon said of Mal, "He knows how to handle a sword, doesn't he?" C'mon, some lines just speak for themselves.

Warrick: You didn't have to wound that man.
Mal: Yeah, I know. It was just funny.

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Wednesday, November 6, 2002 2:20 PM

ROBERTSPARLING

you all read into this show far, far too much.

And quit being a homophobe Looney Toons. It doesn't speak well of your moral character.

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Wednesday, November 6, 2002 11:29 PM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND

Quote:
Originally posted by Persephone:

And when Simon saw that Mal had been stabbed he was much more concerned about it than Inara was. He was all, "Are you alright?!" while running up to Mal, practically sweating out of fear. That goes a little above and beyond doctorly concern, if you ask me. In that same episode, Simon said of Mal, "He knows how to handle a sword, doesn't he?" C'mon, some lines just speak for themselves.

I just re-watched this yesterday and I noticed it too. I mean I know Simon's a doctor so its not supposed to be a big deal when the first question he asks is whether someone is hurt, but his tone. He sounded so scared. It was really kind of cute. Now if Mal would just get over his silly, little Inara crush...

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Thursday, November 7, 2002 2:58 PM

MOUNTAINGAL

Simon? Gay? Prolly.

Come on Kaylee, see the man that Jayne is. He'll stand up for ya in a fight much more effectively than Simon anyway.

I don't condone homosexuality, but i don't condemn homosexuals or bisexuals. I also don't think that people should have others jumping down their throats because they express their opinion, however unpopular.

That said, LooneyTunes, you could have phrased your statements more diplomatically.

~S.

You can't take the sky from me.

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Thursday, November 7, 2002 4:39 PM

CHARLIEBLUE

Quote:
Originally posted by Persephone:
lol, ok well you can count on me for HoYay talk! I've never even seen Smallville, but the gayness on Firefly seems pretty apparent to me.

If you like HoYay, you have to watch Smallville. That show is homoeroticism in a bottle.

Out of curiosity, does anybody know if Michael Rosenbaum is...er...

? Because I know the writers have denied intending for Lex Luthor to be a homosexual, so why is he So Very Gay?

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Thursday, November 7, 2002 11:14 PM

PERSEPHONE

Man I've been meaning to check that show out for a long time, but I think I usually watch 24 instead. Great show, but no HoYay.

Re: lines speaking for themselves. I didn't even catch this one, I got it out of Shack's recap of "Shindig" at TWoP.

Inara: As with other situations, the key seems to be giving Jayne a heavy stick and standing back.
Shack: How can they give me lines like that and not expect me to make gay jokes?

Read the rest at: http://televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=95&story=4088

New Firefly tomorrow!

Warrick: You didn't have to wound that man.
Mal: Yeah, I know. It was just funny.

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Thursday, November 7, 2002 11:17 PM

PERSEPHONE

Edited because of double-post. My first ever! yay me.

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Friday, November 8, 2002 1:15 PM

MARK

Ok, I just want to make three points...

Firstly, Simon's a Pansy. Take that either as being effeminate or gay if you like... It would certainly make for a more interesting show.

Secondly. Homosexuality is a species survival trait, rather than an individual survival trait. It's a gene that exists in all of us but gets triggered by certain environmental factors. It's intended to slow the growth of an overly sucessful species to prevent them outstripping their resources. As you get more and more tightly packed, more and more people become gay thus slowing the birth rate... Or at least it woukd if it weren't for surrogacy. Above is a theory of mine, not scientific certainty... But if it's right, then there should be fewer Homosexuals in the future.

Thirdly, if you want proof of the Mal/Jayne thing... Well, I can't prove they're shirt-lifters (I didn't mean that in a bad way) but don't you think it's curious... The Phallic symbolism? Mal has Serenity, and if the neck of that ship isn't phallic then I don't know what is! And Jayne has all those guns... Including Vera... What's the betting he has them by his bed so he can fondle them under the covers at night.
Ooohh!! And don't forget the knife he threatens Dobbs with in Serenity! That was an excessively big knife... It's obviously a manhood compensator.

Twelve spheres of unendurable brightness spalled the velvety blackness of space.
The silence on Lester Tourville's flag bridge was absolute
And then the spell was broken as Shannon Foraker looked up from her console from where she had just sent a seemingly innocent command to the main computers of State Security's finest Superdreadnoughts.
"Oops." She said.

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Wednesday, November 13, 2002 10:57 AM

STEVE580

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark:
Homosexuality is a species survival trait, rather than an individual survival trait. It's a gene that exists in all of us but gets triggered by certain environmental factors. It's intended to slow the growth of an overly sucessful species to prevent them outstripping their resources. As you get more and more tightly packed, more and more people become gay thus slowing the birth rate... Or at least it woukd if it weren't for surrogacy. Above is a theory of mine, not scientific certainty... But if it's right, then there should be fewer Homosexuals in the future.

That isnt right - its genetic, as previously mentioned, or chemical (It could be becuase of too much estrogen[men] or testosterone[women])

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Wednesday, November 13, 2002 12:19 PM

MARK

[q]
Originally posted by Mark:
Homosexuality is a species survival trait, rather than an individual survival trait. It's a gene that exists in all of us but gets triggered by certain environmental factors. It's intended to slow the growth of an overly sucessful species to prevent them outstripping their resources. As you get more and more tightly packed, more and more people become gay thus slowing the birth rate... Or at least it woukd if it weren't for surrogacy. Above is a theory of mine, not scientific certainty... But if it's right, then there should be fewer Homosexuals in the future.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That isnt right - its genetic, as previously mentioned, or chemical (It could be becuase of too much estrogen or testosterone)[/q]

That's what I said. It's a gene that becomes more prone to dominance in higher density populations... Kinda like the Heat Shock gene... The proof is... Well... Only circumstantial, but if you think about it, ancient rome was fairly densely packed and they had a lot of homosexuality in the mix, just as it's far less prevailant in Third World countries today, due to the need to keep the birth rate high.

Twelve spheres of unendurable brightness spalled the velvety blackness of space.
The silence on Lester Tourville's flag bridge was absolute
And then the spell was broken as Shannon Foraker looked up from her console from where she had just sent a seemingly innocent command to the main computers of State Security's finest Superdreadnoughts.
"Oops." She said.

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Wednesday, November 13, 2002 12:40 PM

NIXXIGNATIUS

Personally, I'm waiting for the Deliverence references.

I about died when Jayne was stealing all of the Doctor's stuff and mentioned the "hill people."

I could see the Doctor as being gay. Not the Captain though. He doesn't effect my gaydar.

Nixx

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Wednesday, November 13, 2002 1:12 PM

PERSEPHONE

Are you kidding Nixx? The Captain and Simon are the best couple on the show. The last episode had SO MUCH hoyay between those two. In every scene they had together Mal kept going out of his way to be all touchy-feely with Simon. And why do you think Mal went back for Simon? Because he luurrves him, that's why. That scene at the end when Simon was questioning Mal about it was just filled with sexual tension. Whatever forced "sexual tension" Mal has going on with Inara has nothing on Mal and Simon's. And Mal got so embarrassed and defensive about Simon questioning him, that was so cute! And then he said for Simon to get ready for dinner and that "there's no need to dress." hehe! okay, I'm just digging now, I'll admit it. The Captain strikes me as more bisexual than totally gay. He lurves Simon but also wants to follow the conventional route (Inara) and he knows not what to do.

I could write a freaking essay on all the HoYay in "Safe" but I'll spare you all. There is just too much of it for the fans to be making it up. Joss has admitted to putting hoyay in Buffy, eventually he'll admit to putting it in Ff too.

Warrick: You didn't have to wound that man.
Mal: Yeah, I know. It was just funny.

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Friday, November 15, 2002 7:45 PM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND

"They took Christmas away." River's way of saying Jayne's big pay day had been swept out from under him, but she goes on to say "No fair looking in the closet. That's just greedy." Which of course to my dirty little mind sounds like she's telling Jayne he can't coerce Simon into having sex with him as a consolation prize. Which considering Simon's "he was amazing" pronouncement back on Serenity might not be such a wacky idea.

Yes, my slashy friends, the Ho!Yay! thrives.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Friday, November 15, 2002 7:52 PM

THEADORABLEDORMOUSE

So, okay. I'm going to ignore all sociopolitical and scientific discussion on homosexuality here. Any replies that include any scientific discourse, statistics of any kind, or anti-gay sentiment will be summarily IGNORED.

Right? Okay. Moving on.

Firefly rocks! Also: Mal is in love with Simon. Yes he is. And Simon now has a crush on Jayne. And Jayne feels really guilty because he kindof sortof is crushing back. And he betrayed him! And doesn't want him to know! Because of the crush, absolutely.

You know, in a normal show this incident would be forgotton and never mentioned again, and Simon would never learn that it was Jayne what betrayed him and River. But being as this is Joss... I don't know that it won't crop up again. I'd like Simon to find out. Then he will realize what a Cro-Magnon Jayne is and find true love with Mal.

And, wow. Mal. Scary in love with Simon. He's all "you mess with him, you mess with ME!" and completely prepared to let Jayne die. And only decides against it because Jayne shows remorse for turning on his boy.

And Inara and Kaylee. Are a couple. And if they're not, they should be. Kaylee's all "so do Space hookers date?" and Inara's all "well, maybe" and then with the hugging and the kissing. Awwww. So cute.

And shout-out to the HetYay, Wash and Zoe are so cute words do not describe. I'm afraid of what Joss has in store for them, because they're so in love I could see little hearts around them when they were kissing. And everyone knows Joss kills all healthy relationships. So sad!

In closing, Mal loves Simon. And Simon should love him back because lets face it: space pants rock.

~~~
t. a. d.
~~~

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Friday, November 15, 2002 9:00 PM

PERSEPHONE

Didn't Jayne say something to Simon like "Shut that pretty mouth"??? After calling Simon's shoes pretty last week. I mean, that's pretty gay. I think Jayne sort of has a crush on Simon, but Mal totally loves Simon. I thought it was so cute how furious Mal was with Jayne for what he did, was even gonna let him die over it. Jayne was all "I didn't do nuthin to you" and Mal shrieks "YES YOU DID!" before covering himself and continuing with all the "you betray one of us you betray us all" crap. Poor Captain Tight Pants. As for Simon, he's in the middle. If he didn't have a crush on Jayne before, he sure does now. The way he looked at him and said "he was amazing..." hehe, the HoYay definitely thrives.

oh yes, and I'll echo the HetYay. Wash and Zoe are like the bestest couple ever. They should get more screen time.

Warrick: You didn't have to wound that man.
Mal: Yeah, I know. It was just funny.

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Friday, November 15, 2002 9:16 PM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND

Quote:
Originally posted by Persephone:
Didn't Jayne say something to Simon like "Shut that pretty mouth"???

Yes, yes, he did. And everyone in my neighborhood knows it because I began screaming in joy. It doesn't get much gayer than that. Although with all the Deliverance action going on last week, it was also a little creepsome. But I digress..

Quote:
Poor Captain Tight Pants. As for Simon, he's in the middle.

And this is a bad thing? I'd pay good money to be in the middle of that.

Quote:

If he didn't have a crush on Jayne before, he sure does now. The way he looked at him and said "he was amazing..." hehe, the HoYay definitely thrives.

Even the gay-dar deficient had to feel that one. If Simon were a girl you know that would be considered foreshadowing for a future relationship. Of course, considering its King of the HoYay Whedon we're talking about at least we can consider it foreshadowing for lots more Jayne/Simon subtextyness in the future. Yum.

I'm not feeling the Mal/Simon love though. Its there, I'd have to be blind not to see it, but the prospects of Jayne/Simon just seem like so much more fun.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Saturday, November 16, 2002 11:06 AM

THEADORABLEDORMOUSE

Quote:
I'm not feeling the Mal/Simon love though. Its there, I'd have to be blind not to see it, but the prospects of Jayne/Simon just seem like so much more fun.

Jayne's hot, I admit. But he really strikes me as being a knuckle-dragging jerk. I could deal with the mercenary tendencies if he had the charm and charisma of Han Solo. And I wouldn't mind his being a dim bulb if he had the courage of, say, Worf. But he's rude and abrasive and cowardly and obviously the type who thinks that a fart is a witty rebuttal.

Not my cup of tea.

Mal on the other hand! Now, he does have the charm and charisma of Han Solo. And he went back for Simon even when Simon's own father wouldn't have, and didn't leave him behind on Ariel either. And he totally threw down for his boy! Also: the man must have Kaylee weld his pants on every morning, because I don't see any other way of getting into those things.

Captain Tight Pants indeed.

So, I'd much rather see the Simon!subtext with Mal, rather than Jayne. Because between the rugged anti-hero and a transplanted Neantherthal/frat-boy... no contest.

Although, honestly. Simon is crushing on Jayne something awful. But I can definately see Jayne feeling so guilty he brushes him off. Or Mal suddenly looming up in the background and giving Jayne the evil eye until he did, anyway.

~~~
t. a. d.
~~~

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Saturday, November 16, 2002 4:29 PM

PERSEPHONE

Quote:
And I wouldn't mind his being a dim bulb if he had the courage of, say, Worf. But he's rude and abrasive and cowardly and obviously the type who thinks that a fart is a witty rebuttal.

I don't think Jayne is as dumb as he appears. He's more anti-social and incredibly self focused, which can make him appear the dim bulb. I don't think he's that cowardly, either. As long as he thinks the ends justify the means he can be very brave. He probably would think that a fart is a witty rebuttal though, can't argue there. I lurve my Jayne, gotta stick up for him. How sexy was that knife-licking, mmm...

Usually I'm rooting for Mal and Simon, but in Ariel I woulda been blind not to see it between Jayne and Simon. Just like JG said, if the "he was amazing" scene had been done exactly the same but between a man and woman, viewers would take it as foreshadowing for a relationship. I'm pretty much feeling the Hoyay between all 3 of them, in every which direction. Ariel was just the gayest ep ever. Thank you, Jose.

Warrick: You didn't have to wound that man.
Mal: Yeah, I know. It was just funny.

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Sunday, November 17, 2002 7:30 PM

SENSOU

Well, normally I'm a rabid yaoi/yuri girl, but I have to disagree with you. The way I figure (as in read waaay too deeply into it), Mal likes Simon as an annoying little brother, you don't ever admit you like him, but you try to take care of him, y'know? (Ooh, fic idea!) Mal does like (that sounds so juvnile!) Zoe, who likes Wash (duh!) Kaylee thinks she likes Simon but those feelings are really for Inara, who Kaylee sees as untouchable and thus subconciously transfers them to Simon, who is almost as unreachable as Inara. Mal doesn't really like Inara that way, he's just a jerk sometimes. Inara likes..hmm.. I don't know. Jayne likes River. So why does he betray her then? (sorry if that spoiled any.) He thinks that when Simon broke her out of the government-place, he did it too soon, and if they had her back, they would fix her.
Note: It's 1 am local time. Just had to share that with y'all.

Sensou
Sweet is love when all is sane
Sweet is death to end the pain
Cruel is death when all is well
Cruel is love when all is hell

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Sunday, November 17, 2002 8:46 PM

PERSEPHONE

See I think Mal loves Zoe more like a sister, and he's maybe kind of in awe of her. I just don't get any sexual attraction there. Zoe + Wash 4 eva!

Agree with Kaylee digging Inara and transferring it to Simon. She probably knows deep down that he's way gay, so she feels he's safe or something.

Jayne...River...hmmm my brain can't handle that thought. You're not serious about it are you? All Jayne cared about was his "reward." River's like a child. And an insane one at that.

Warrick: You didn't have to wound that man.
Mal: Yeah, I know. It was just funny.

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Monday, November 18, 2002 1:18 PM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND

Quote:
Originally posted by Persephone:

Jayne...River...hmmm my brain can't handle that thought. You're not serious about it are you? All Jayne cared about was his "reward." River's like a child. And an insane one at that.

Eww. That's kind of an icky thought. Besides look at the way he treats them. River is just an annoyance to him, but he seems to get an awful lot out of teasing Simon. Just like a little boy teasing the girl he has a crush on. So Jayne + Simon = LUV! or you know, really great sex.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Tuesday, November 19, 2002 10:40 AM

SENSOU

Quote:
Originally posted by Persephone:
Jayne...River...hmmm my brain can't handle that thought. You're not serious about it are you? All Jayne cared about was his "reward." River's like a child. And an insane one at that.

Warrick: You didn't have to wound that man.
Mal: Yeah, I know. It was just funny.

That's what happens when I do this stuff late at night. Now, in the light of day, I don't see Jayne/River right now, but maybe later.
I just like everyone paired up in nice little romantic sets. I have to go back and re-read the scripts (my computer won't run the episodes

), and then come up with the Semi-Accurate-Purely-Speculation-Love-Hate-Net.

Sensou
Sweet is love when all is sane
Sweet is death to end the pain
Cruel is death when all is well
Cruel is love when all is hell

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Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:47 PM

MRRANTIPOLE

Quote:
Originally posted by JaynesGirlfriend:
Quote:
Originally posted by Persephone:

Besides look at the way he treats them. River is just an annoyance to him, but he seems to get an awful lot out of teasing Simon. Just like a little boy teasing the girl he has a crush on. So Jayne + Simon = LUV! or you know, really great sex.

Hee. Teasing is my favorite hoyay, after pulling rank. Which, conveniently, Mal does often and well. And did you notice the kind of triumphant ardor to his "You're on my crew" speech to Simon?

Mr. Rantipole

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Wednesday, December 20, 2006 2:46 PM

KURYA

*sigh* homosexual subtext discussions, and polticial discussions errupting in the middle of a homsoexual subtext thread... have things changed in 4 years? not so much I guess.... :P
Prakash

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