Serenity: Immunity Mal by AnthonyT

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Serenity: Immunity Mal

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 14:26
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2764
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 6:40 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

There's something that's been bothering me since I saw Serenity, and I wondered if it has bothered any of you. Perhaps I missed a crucial detail that would make sense of it.

At the end of the film, I thought I saw the Operative shoot Mal in the back. I also thought I saw Mal comment on this fact before shrugging it off.

Now, normally one might imagine this to be a critical event, but Mal just shrugs off the experience and goes on to engage in a Determinator fight scene that starts with him out-drawing the Operative, and ends with him using a clever un-telegraphed war injury ex machina to defeat the operative.

Between the two events, Mal is treated no better than hamburger by the Operative.

Is there a cut-scene or out-of-universe explanation for Mal's immunity to harm in this scene? Was there something about the gun that I should have noticed to explain its bizarre ineffectiveness? Did the war injury get foreshadowed at some earlier point in the film? Are we supposed to assume that Mal is wearing body armor?

What did I miss that makes this scene more sensible? Despite being Mal's big hero moment, it has stuck in my mind as a thorn since I saw it, as one of the least believable sequences in the film.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 6:58 AM

SPACEJANITOR

He shoots Mal with some sort of stun weapon, which causes Mal to fall. The Operative has a killing weapon of choice. A sword. He won't shoot when he can stab.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 6:59 AM

ZEEK

I think the foreshadowing is in Ariel when the alliance weapons are silly stun gun things. They seemed to only temporarily stun people. That was a whole big gun. Larger than a shotgun even. In the movie he just had a little sidearm. It might do nothing more then shock a person and make them not want to be shocked again.

It's kind of weak, but that's the best way I can understand it. Plus Mal is a human pin cushion. In case you missed it he gets run straight through with a sword (they took out the shot showing him standing there with a sword straight through him after people balked at it during the prescreenings) and continues to fight. So, it seems like anything less than decapitation won't really slow Mal down.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 7:12 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"He shoots Mal with some sort of stun weapon, which causes Mal to fall. The Operative has a killing weapon of choice. A sword. He won't shoot when he can stab."

Hello,

This doesn't precisely work for me because the weapon doesn't stun him much at all, within less than 10 seconds Mal has enough motor control to perform a quickdraw. And the Operative DOES shoot him. It seems the only reason the Operative doesn't shoot him a second time is because the gun was shot out of his hand. (Not that the gun appeared to be even as effective as a 1980's era taser... if it WAS a stun weapon. Is that stated somewhere? The Operative pulled the sidearm from a dead bridge officer.)

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 7:18 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"I think the foreshadowing is in Ariel when the alliance weapons are silly stun gun things. They seemed to only temporarily stun people. That was a whole big gun. Larger than a shotgun even. In the movie he just had a little sidearm. It might do nothing more then shock a person and make them not want to be shocked again."

Hello,

Well, that may be, but it's a big problem for that information to not be in the movie. It's what I keep telling myself- that the weapon is implied to be utterly ineffective. However, since that's not set up anywhere else, I'm bothered by it.

"Plus Mal is a human pin cushion. In case you missed it he gets run straight through with a sword"

I didn't miss it. I remember when I was a kid and Rambo used gunpowder to cauterize a gunshot wound that passed clear through his torso the day before scaling a cliff.

"So, it seems like anything less than decapitation won't really slow Mal down."

It seems so. I had hoped that I missed a critical detail in the film, but apparently we're just supposed to swallow it without sugar.

It's a bit of uncharacteristic bad writing from Joss. Mal shrugs off gunfire because the plot requires it. Mal has a secret immunity war injury because the plot requires it. These things will come without any set-up or foreshadowing. We are expected to swallow them, and we do swallow them because we love this world, but it wouldn't be tolerated from strangers.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 7:24 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

The Alliance weapons in Ariel and in the movie are sonic guns. When Simon and River are escaping at the beginning of the movie, we see someone trying to shoot at them, but the sound wave can't get through the glass, so they start banging on it with the otherwise-useless pistols. The Operative has a similar weapon. The sonic blast hits Mal in the back, spreads across his body, and the force knocks him down. It doesn't stun him because it's not, in fact, a stun gun, it's the force of sound waves.

[/sig]

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 7:27 AM

BYTEMITE

Actually, the war injury was foreshadowed in Objects in Space of all places. Jubal Early tries to use the same kidney shot on Mal to incapacitate him, only for Mal to unexpectedly fight back.

Watch that scene very closely. :)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 8:02 AM

MUTT999

Per the Serenity Visual Companion, and the novelization, it's a laser. That's all it says, laser.

Like someone said before, must have been on a low setting. Or, just another piece of crap Alliance hardware.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 8:34 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"The sonic blast hits Mal in the back"

Hello,

I must agree with Mutt that this isn't a sonic weapon, as it had some illuminated sparky effects that would be hard to explain with sound waves. Also, the only times I can remember someone getting shot with an Alliance weapon, it was highly effective. The only times Alliance hardware was NOT effective in the series was when it was used against inanimate objects, it failed to fire entirely, or it ran out of juice at a critical juncture. It's the saving grace of the stuff that when it works, it works well. Otherwise it'd be hard to explain why they have it at all.

Moreover, without some foreshadowing about ineffective Alliance hardware in the movie, it's just- I stress again- bad storytelling. A gun that mysteriously doesn't do much, sharing a scene with a deus-ex war injury.

If I remember correctly, Wash died (per Joss) so that there would be a sense of real jeopardy and danger throughout the remainder of the film. If Wash dies, especially so suddenly and unexpectedly, anyone can die.

This is such a sharp contrast with the later scene with Mal, where the character inexplicably avoids death and defeat, not through mere cleverness or determination, but through means hard to grasp in the context of the film: He is gun-proof for no reason, and he has a magic immunity to paralysis. In the former case, the gun-proofedness is just ignored. In the later case, it is hand-waved away after the fact.

There's not even, near as I can tell, an establishing shot of Mal where we see old scars on his back or anything of the kind. Not even a single second of time is used to establish his imperviousness. It’s just stated after the fact. "Oh, by the way, did I mention I spent the past several years developing an immunity to Iocane powder?" That sort of thing belongs in a comedy that makes fun of itself, not as the climax to a piece of drama. But if we are going to accept after-the-fact explanations, can we at least get a brief nod for the Operative's Sad Gun? Perhaps a counter-point to the Operative's earlier statement in the same film? "You're not the only one who wears body armor" Mal might say, or "And people ask me why I carry a sword," the Operative might lament.

I love Firefly, and I love our Big Damn Heroes, but I see problems with Serenity that go beyond the creator offing Wash. The climax of the film suffers from bad storytelling.

"Jubal Early tries to use the same kidney shot on Mal to incapacitate him, only for Mal to unexpectedly fight back."

Well, I'll have to re-watch that. I suppose it would be a small comfort. Of course, it doesn't fix the bad storytelling angle in that nothing within the context of the movie prepares you for it.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 8:52 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
nothing within the context of the movie prepares you for it.

Except for the opening escape of Simon and River, where the gun is shown to be unable to actually penetrate something.

[/sig]

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:18 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Nothing in the scene with Mal required the weapon to penetrate something. So if we accept penetration issues as an established weakness...

It still explains nothing at all that transpires during the climax.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:37 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
"Jubal Early tries to use the same kidney shot on Mal to incapacitate him, only for Mal to unexpectedly fight back."

Well, I'll have to re-watch that. I suppose it would be a small comfort. Of course, it doesn't fix the bad storytelling angle in that nothing within the context of the movie prepares you for it.

--Anthony

It's very subtle, neither Mal or Jubal Early make any kind of a deal about it because when Mal keeps fighting back Jubal just attacks another way. It's a desperate scrambling sort of fight where neither of them really have time to notice the kidney shot didn't work.

I'm not even sure if it's intentional, but at least within the framework of the movie and series that blow being ineffective on Mal is consistent.

And yes, there was nothing about it in the movie, so if someone had never seen the series before, or if I'm wrong, then it is kind of pulled out of nowhere.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:49 AM

SPACEJANITOR

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Nothing in the scene with Mal required the weapon to penetrate something. So if we accept penetration issues as an established weakness...

It still explains nothing at all that transpires during the climax.

--Anthony

Life is too short man. Let it go.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 10:39 AM

AGENTROUKA

Anthony,

I think it's fair to say that, yes, Joss is entirely capable of bad writing and this is an instant of it. Among other things.

It's okay to accept this fact and still like the things that are good.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 10:40 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

According to you, the scene would require that the blast penetrate Mal. It doesn't. That's why there was no damage other than him pratfalling spectacularly off the rail. Are you just in a mood to argue or what?

[/sig]

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 10:43 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Nothing in the scene with Mal required the weapon to penetrate something. So if we accept penetration issues as an established weakness...

It still explains nothing at all that transpires during the climax.

--Anthony

All this talk about the Operative's gun's penetration power or lethality or reliability is beside the point. You had to notice how angry the Operative was. (Good acting by Chiwetel Ejiofor. And moody lighting. Mal underlined it, "Did I make you angry?") Operative wanted to torture Mal, not kill. Mal falling off the railing onto his face was the first step in the Operative taking Mal apart, without anesthesia. Maybe torture for a year than death by hanging. The Operative could take his time because (he thinks) he is in total command.

The part that can never be explained is why did Mal turn his back on the Operative after their inconclusive gun duel. That was surely a direct-to-video moment. I did not expect that level of storytelling in a major movie.

Mal already got stomped the previous time he turned his back on the Operative at Inara's temple apartment. Why make the same mistake? Did God cloud Mal's mind? Or did Joss? Was it the fall on his face? Will we ever know why? So many questions.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 10:58 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
According to you, the scene would require that the blast penetrate Mal. It doesn't. That's why there was no damage other than him pratfalling spectacularly off the rail. Are you just in a mood to argue or what?

He might be, he did also start a thread about Superman that was liable to draw a lot of argument. :)

For the record, I like your argument, either that it was a sonic weapon or a stun weapon, and that this was foreshadowed in the beginning with soldiers unable to fire through the glass.

I kind of like stun weapon better, because of the sparkly special effect involved, but maybe a high frequency sonic weapon has some associated flashes from the barrel too.

A stun weapon, I note, doesn't always knock someone unconscious, like Princess Leia in Star Wars. Modern stun weapons often just temporarily disorient someone, making them easier to handle/manhandle. If we're talking something more like a taser that temporarily overpowers the nervous system, it'll have you twitching for as long as the current is going, sometimes it'll even make your limbs numb or unresponsive (like when your foot goes to sleep), but that doesn't mean Mal couldn't haul himself up afterwards and quick draw on the operative. They did talk for a while, could have been long enough for Mal to shake off the effect.

As for shooting the operative and turning his back, maybe Mal thought he had finished it, despite the previous time wearing body armour. Getting shot wearing body armour actually ruins the body armor, maybe Mal assumed the Operative only had one set because that's just what he's used to out on the Rim.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11:05 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
...As for shooting the operative and turning his back, maybe Mal thought he had finished it, despite the previous time wearing body armour. Getting shot wearing body armour actually ruins the body armor, maybe Mal assumed the Operative only had one set because that's just what he's used to out on the Rim.

I know why Mal turned his back to the Operative. If this was a Die Hard movie, with Mal as John McClane and several Operatives as Die Hard villains, Mal could kill Operatives one at a time. But there is only the one Operative and Joss has to keep the Operative alive to the very end. If the Operative dies, then Joss's movie is over. That is the reason Mal turned his back on the Operative, to keep the movie going 10 more minutes. We haven't got to River's fight to the death with Reavers. "Yippee-ki-yay, motherfraker." - John McClane always says that to last villain he kills spectacularly.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11:47 AM

MAL4PREZ

It's just bad writing. Joss likes to torture his tough guy characters, and he took it too far in this scene. He admits himself, in the commentary, that the degree to which Mal got beat up was not believable. So I think you're right Anthony, it's just dumb plot. But I forgive Joss, as he's done so many genius things that he deserves an off moment or two.

I do love Joss, but there are things he does not excel at. Fight scenes mostly-probably because he doesn't like them much. (That's from a Buffy commentary.) The fights at the end of War Stories and in Heart of Gold, for instance. Bad. Even bits of the duel in Shindig. They come off flat and contrived to me.

Also, I'd be hugely surprised if Joss really had the little war injury plot detail in mind when he wrote the fight scene with Jubal. Very hugely surprised. Sorry, but that sounds all fanwank to me.

Not that fanwank is bad. I've done quite a bit of that myself.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:18 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Also, I'd be hugely surprised if Joss really had the little war injury plot detail in mind when he wrote the fight scene with Jubal. Very hugely surprised. Sorry, but that sounds all fanwank to me.

It probably is. But considering I had the same problem there that Anthony did, I was glad to see it, see ANYTHING all the same.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:26 PM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:
Also, I'd be hugely surprised if Joss really had the little war injury plot detail in mind when he wrote the fight scene with Jubal. Very hugely surprised. Sorry, but that sounds all fanwank to me.

It probably is. But considering I had the same problem there that Anthony did, I was glad to see it, see ANYTHING all the same.

So - were you following the Inception threads here? I went to AMAZING lengths to explain away the few plot weaknesses in that movie. Not that it was really needed - what an amazing movie!

A writer has to be damned good to deserve a good fanwank, is the way I figure it. It's a compliment.

to Joss.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:40 PM

BYTEMITE

Sure does. :)

I, um, haven't actually seen Inception yet. Between all the hooting and scratching and set backs discovering fire, I don't have time for much.

o.0 The magic box is talking to me.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 21, 2010 2:26 PM

GWEK

While the Mal-shot-in-the-back moment is flawed, I think it's less accurate to blame it on poor writing than poor direction.

The script states clearly that Mal is in pain from the shot and struggles to get up when he recovers. We just don't see enough of that in the actual movie.

As for whether Joss went to far in beating the tar out of Mal... Well, the series especially consistently demonstrates that one of Mal's special qualities is that he can get beaten up--A LOT--and still stand up and fight.

That's exactly what happens in the movie. Where I personally think Whedon might've tweaked things was by having Mal collapse AFTER the fact (which is sorta what happens more than once in the series).

In our virtual Season Two, the scene played out like this:

No one moves. They all look at each other, confused. Did they hear it right?

Then we hear the Operative again, from the dozen or so helmet mics. There’s a world of weariness in his voice.

OPERATIVE (via com, cont’d)
The situation is cold.
(choking cough)
The civilians are not to be harmed.

A long beat, then everyone seems to stand down—

CLOSE ON: SOLDIER #2’S TRIGGER FINGER…

It squeezes inadvertently. We hear a small click—

And it eases off.

Mal let’s out a long breath. Lowers his gun. He smiles a little, takes a step toward River—

And collapses, falling flat on his face.

Blood begins to spread from his belly wound.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE