The Problem with John Doe... by bobknaptor

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

The Problem with John Doe...

POSTED BY: BOBKNAPTOR
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 4, 2002 11:43
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VIEWED: 3027
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Monday, December 2, 2002 4:40 PM

So, I've been thinking about this a bit ever since I found out that John Doe was doing so much better than Firefly in the ratings, and since it got picked up to finish out the season and Firefly has gone on hiatus.

I watched John Doe a couple times, simply because it was on after Firefly. It wasn't a horrible show... but the premise is horribly flawed. This is only a premise you can get away with in a movie. Reason: eventually, he has to get his memory back. How long can they exploit the premise that he doesn't know who he is, and there's some big conspiracy working against him trying to manipulate him for their own devilish purposes? So, when he does figure out who he is, then what will the show be about? And the name suddenly doesn't work anymore.

I think that it'll be like a "Moonlighting" or "Who's the Boss?"... you spend all this time invested in the two people with the sexual tension hooking up... then when they do, it's boring as hell. Once we know who John Doe is, who gives a crap about him? There goes the show. I don't see it making it more than 2 seasons, if it comes back at all next year.

______________
That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo!

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Monday, December 2, 2002 5:21 PM

MOUNTAINGAL

My only problem with John Doe is that the whole idea's been done. Ever watch Pretender? The main character, Jarrod, had very little memory of his life before he was manipulated by the Centre. But, along with that, the people from the Centre that are trying to track him down (he breaks free) have lives and they end up being more interested in his welfare than whether they get him back to the Centre. That's all you get to know. (-: That show was awesome. I watched the first few eps of John Doe, and, well... *shrug* It was better off with Jarrod.

~S.

You can't take the sky from me.

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Monday, December 2, 2002 5:33 PM

THELEFTHAND

They have set up some interesting potential arcs with John Doe. I hope they can exploit them. Specifically, his inability to carry on a normal conversation. There are some great stories in there concerning book knowledge and someone attempting to integrate back into society. We've also seen Doe slip into 'madness' every once in awhile. It would be nice to see them develop this. Also, just beacuse we've only seen one group attempting to exploit Doe doesn't mean other groups won't appear. Alas, the plots will probably not be well developed, and even if they are it won't matter. If Firefly goes off the air, I won't watch John Doe. Call it the bitter effect.

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Monday, December 2, 2002 8:36 PM

DELVO

A human life,. especially one with the oddities of JD's, contains a lot of information. If they just keep dripping it out like they have so far, it'll take several years for viewers to really find out stuff that adds up to anything significant. And then they can end the show after the story has taken a healthy number of years to finish out. There are ways to screw this up, but they're not doomed to any of them.

I just decided not to watch anymore because there are too many implausibilities, too much stereotyping in his characterization, too poor acting, and too many errors in the "facts" that get spouted.

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 8:32 AM

BOBKNAPTOR

RE: The Pretender
Agreed. Much better done in the Pretender, At least then every episode Jared (or is it Jarrod?) tries to play a new role. John Doe is always the same... savant investigator. And is it just me, or is it totally and completely unbelievable that every single crime in the city of Seattle has SOMETHING to do with John Doe? I live here, and while it's fun to see spots around town on a TV show on a weekly basis, I'm not buying that he's that important a guy. Seattle may not be as big as New York or LA, but it's big enough that the small town cop thing (same 2 investigators at every crime scene) they've been showing is just not feasible.

As for the Pretender though, as much as I liked it, even that show didn't really hold my focus for too long. After a while I just started thinking "yup... here comes Jared to cure cancer or win the winston cup race or produce that grammy nominated album". To me, it's not interesting to watch someone who breezes through everything with little or no effort. What does he really do other than try to escape the Center?

As for the only one group trying to exploit John Doe, I've only seen 2 or 3 episodes, and I've seen 2 groups trying to exploit him... the one deaf group where they gave him the whole history of his life only to find out it was a fake, and the organ harvesting doctor group who tried to gut him because he's a healthy adult male with no family to speak of.

I'm sure that they could drizzle the info out little by little and make the show last a few years, but I don't think it would hold interest. I've enjoyed the couple shows I've seen, but I don't find it interesting enough to keep up on now that it's not on right after Firefly. I think I'll be going back to my old habbits of having a life on Fridays. At least now I don't have to worry about my season tickets to the Paramount getting in the way of my Firefly watching.

______________
I believe I speak for everyone when I say "HUH?"

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 2:54 PM

MILLERNATE

Quote:

And is it just me, or is it totally and completely unbelievable that every single crime in the city of Seattle has SOMETHING to do with John Doe?

Actually this isn't entirely true. The second episode featured a killer that had nothing to do with John Doe. Ironically enough, it was better than a lot of the episodes I've seen of it (I have yet to see the highly talked about premiere, despite having had it on tape for something like 3 months).

Quote:

As for the Pretender though, as much as I liked it, even that show didn't really hold my focus for too long. After a while I just started thinking "yup... here comes Jared to cure cancer or win the winston cup race or produce that grammy nominated album". To me, it's not interesting to watch someone who breezes through everything with little or no effort. What does he really do other than try to escape the Center?

It wasn't entirely about seeing Jared deal with the situation of the week. Not only did it involved the Center but it also featured some nice stuff on Ms. Parker. In fact it was interesting to see the show become as much about Ms. Parker as Jared. The Pretender was one of those shows that it wasn't entirely about what they did but also how they did it (if that makes any sense).

Odd thought on John Doe: Does anyone watching the show end up having the thought "This show really would be better if [Mutant Enemy Producer/Writer of your choice] were in a high ranking producer slot"? Because Purcell isn't a bad actor and the *ideas* for the individual episodes are usually okay but the individual scripts just have huge holes. If someone like Jane Espenson or David Fury were on staff the show might be quite a bit better (or, to name a non-ME show Andy Breckerman, creator of Monk...).

Nathan
"It looks like a great adventure...That's what it is; that's what it feels like. When I saw the pilot, it was really engaging. It was exciting. It was unusual. It threw me off every now and then. I think people will be grabbed by it." - Ron Glass, on the pilot, during an interview with the Indianapolis Star

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 5:12 PM

BOBKNAPTOR

Like I said, I like the show well enough... but I really think that it's not going to hold my interest.

As for the Pretender, I've seen maybe a handful of episodes after the first season. I just couldn't stay excited about it. Maybe it got better?

I think Purcell is a decent actor, and he's definitely handsome enough to do the leading man/carry the show thing. (not that I think you have to be handsome to carry a show, it's just that sex sells, and the general public wouldn't stay tuned in to a show where the head guy was average. Even Willow the "shy geeky girl" had to be cuted up in the first couple of episodes of Buffy.)

ME could probably make the show work... maybe then the writing would be more researched and Thegn could be excited about the coolness of correct physics. :)

______________
Andrew: Scully wants me so bad!

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 6:25 PM

MILLERNATE

Quote:

Even Willow the "shy geeky girl" had to be cuted up in the first couple of episodes of Buffy.)

Is that "cuted up" or just Alyson Hannigan's natural quality coming through

Quote:

ME could probably make the show work... maybe then the writing would be more researched and Thegn could be excited about the coolness of correct physics. :)

I'm not sure we'd get "according to textbook" physics as I don't think anyone at ME has a particularly strong grasp of physics (not Robert Forward grasp of physics anyway). That having been said we'd see better characters, better structured storylines (with fewer gaping plotholes), and maybe some decent humor.

Also, in a bit of a digression, I think ME would do even better if they were helming the most recent revamp of The Twilight Zone (out of the current Twilight regular crew the only ones worth anything are Jim Crocker, Brent Friedman, and Ira Steven Behr). Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you view things) Joss likes to play in his own playground and not someone else's (in this case Rod Serling's).

Nathan
"It looks like a great adventure...That's what it is; that's what it feels like. When I saw the pilot, it was really engaging. It was exciting. It was unusual. It threw me off every now and then. I think people will be grabbed by it." - Ron Glass, on the pilot, during an interview with the Indianapolis Star

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 9:43 AM

BOBKNAPTOR

Quote:
Originally posted by millernate:
Is that "cuted up" or just Alyson Hannigan's natural quality coming through ?

She's definitely a cutie. (allow me to introduce you to my wallpaper on my machine at home:

In fact, I would classify her as "lickable".

But the first couple episodes, they sure did a good job of making her look hopelessly geeky. They made her geekwear much cuter than the "Softer side of Sears" she started with.

______________
That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 11:43 AM

HOBBES

Now we think alike :)

-------------------------------------------------
May the road rise to meet you.
May the wind be always at your back.
May you be in heaven an hour before
The Devil knows you’re dead.

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