What is Book Hiding and about River & Simons Parents by piratejenny

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

What is Book Hiding and about River & Simons Parents

POSTED BY: PIRATEJENNY
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 16:34
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5919
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:22 PM

Book is the offical man of mystery...Book seems to know alot more then what he's telling..I've watched him he's doing a whole lot more then shepherding..like in War stories when he insist on going with Zoey and Jayne... and how he seems to know alot about certain dubious charactors the only one who really seems to have picked up on it is Jayne..its always fun speculating..does anyone have any theorys...about what Book is up to double agent perhaps..

and River and Simons parents in Safe we got to see them in Simon's flashbacks

I thought it was odd that they seemed indiffrent to simons growing concerns especially since they knew how close their bond is ..they completely blew him off...seeing as how they had a young daughter away at school one would think they would have made some inqueries if only to appease Simon's concern

so I'm wondering did they know what was happening with River were they scared that Simon would interfer

and if so why would they keep it a secret are they in on it..is there somthing they know about River that Simon doesn't..does Simon know more about River then what he's saying

I would love to hear peoples speculations and theories on all of these subjects

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:46 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

recall Mrs Renolds ?

Book, he does know quiet a bit about crime, electrical-magnetic nets and how firefly ships got turned into scrap metal

Shepherd wasn't always such a passive preacher

As for Simon and River, I suspect those other experiments were to produce a couple of little mental monsters..children of the corn style, except Simon's startin' to solve the mystery and River is not on their side

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:05 PM

VERAJAYNE

Great idea about the Tam's being in on some sort of "gifted" child breeding program. Simon would have seemed like a real success until River came along. Interesting.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:54 AM

BRUISERSMOM

Book is hiding his past for some reason. I don't think that it is just the fact that he had another career before becoming a preacher because I don't think he would be so secretive about it. He would just come out and say that he was a cop or a spy or something and then he decided on a career change. Book probably has a mission on Serenity and it's not just to save Mal's soul.

As for Simon's parents, I would like to see more of them in the movie in order to find out why they didn't support Simon in his effort to save River. They probably could have brought a court case for River because she is there daughter and saved Simon from taking the drastic measure of kidnapping her from the Academy. I wonder what it would have cost them because the Academy was breaking their family apart by destroying their daughter.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:49 PM

CORNCOBB

The moment that really convinced me that Book is hiding something was the scene in OiS where River reads his mind. He was thinking something like "I don't give a hump if you're innocent or not". He's either an ex-cop who never used to care about getting the right person, or he's a thoroughly nasty piece of work.
As for River, maybe she's a sleeper agent, brainwashed to become a killer on command (which could be Books secret mission). That's purely an assumption though.
I think her parents did know what was happening at the academy. the selective breeding idea sounds very plausible, but they could just be being bribed or blackmailed.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:12 PM

KARENKAY99

all very good questions!! and probably the reason i'm so obsessed. i want answers too!!
what is book hiding?? who was he? who will he turn out to be? good guy or bad guy? i've said it before, he worries me. i want to believe he's a changed man, a good man. but i worry that whatever his dark past is will hurt our bdh's.
and rivers and simons parents?? were they just the obvious stupid parents or is something more sinister at work here? what do they know? what did blue hands do to river? was she made to kill? kill who? blue sun? her father?
so many questions.
i love this show!!

"They say the snow on the roof is too heavy. They say the ceiling will cave in. His brains are in terrible danger."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:59 PM

SHINYSEVEN

OK, in the Jossverse not so much, but in RL parents say all *kinds* of things when they're angry. So just because Gabriel Tam told Simon that that was the last time he was going to bail him out doesn't mean that they're not doing everything they can to find their children and help them.

...unless of course they sold River to the bad guys and wisely didn't mention it to Simon.

...or unless, like Dawn, she just suddenly appeared so they have no more clue than Hank Summers did about Dawn.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:10 PM

LINDLEY

My theory is that Book is allied with the group that sprung River. Clearly they didn't do it just for money; they contacted Simon, after all.

Remember in "Serenity", when Book says to Simon, "Take her----keep her safe!" with such urgency?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:38 PM

BLACKSHAMROCK5

I don't know how many times I had seen that episode until it finally came to me- maybe the Tams knew what was happening to River and they didn't want Simon to muck everything up. "Why" you may be asking well my friends I have no idea but I have a feeling. YES! thats right a feeling that the Tams knew the entire time. And as for Book, I have no clue.

Shamrock (ignore the grammar I'm extremely lazy)

"Jayne, grab your weapon"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:01 PM

AROUNDBROWNCOAT

Hey! That's a cool little notion. I think that would be great to see some kind of connection between Book and River. They are two the most unpredictable characters and only predictable in the fact that the viewer is definitely sure to expect the unexpected from them. It's like Mal retains nobility, Zoe is a warrior woman, Wash is an ace pilot, Kaylee is the warm hearted mechanic, Simon the logical and composed doctor, Jayne is the handsomely devilish or devilishly handsome brute, and Inara is the elegant faith and hope. And in true dramatic fashion, Joss flips our perception of every character and shows us an atypical side to all of them. The softhearted, the loving wife, the courageous, remorseful, etc. Expect the unexpected.

But for River and Book, it's the crazy genius and the passive preacher and loads more.

*Sigh* Darned network men. I cringe thinking about not getting a chance to find out about the real Shepard Book because Firefly was canceled.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:17 PM

PURPLEBELLY

Let's not forget that Whedon is a Wykehamist.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:30 PM

VERAJAYNE

My feeling about Book is, that he has got a terrible violence ridden past.

That at some moment in that past he had a "epiphany" and that he WANTS to be a changed man.

I think he was doing ok secluded in his abbey, but out in the real word he is having more trouble with it than he thought he would.

So I wanna know... what was the violence...and what brought about the change?

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 13, 2004 12:09 AM

SHEPHERDQ

I just thought I would point to things in a slightly new slant.
After the Shindig, Mel and Inara are sitting and talking. Both the conversation and the commentary reveal that they all are misfits. Soon to become a family for each other but still misfits. Shepherd Book is a misfit as well, not really at home in the Abbey anymore. Shepherd book is upset at failing to protect the fed. We see Shepherd Book break a bit during the conversation he has with Inara ( I think I may be on the wrong ship ).When the bounty hunter says .. "He's no Shepherd" he would not know that unless he had seen him before or perhaps worked with him on the "assignment" the feds had OR he empathed more of shepherds past than the present..
He has ID that makes the feds shut up and jump. Perhaps he was " asked" ( forced ) to assist in somthing the feds had done.. and what he saw/did/heard has strained his faith and now aboard Serenity he seeks to regain it and find himself after a time at the Abbey.
"I don't give half a hump if you are innocent or not, so where does that put you?" sounds like something someone would say that has been in Hell and has the man that sent him there at his mercy, and lost his temper. I do not think he was on the ship because anyone else was. In his walk he was looking at ships.. and we see he would have kept walking had Kaylee not spoken to him. If he wanted to be on the ship because someone was, he would have just walked up, no reason to play mystery with Kaylee.
He is an opposite to Mal... during the war, Mal lost his faith when things went south... Forced by his own side to surrender, left by both sides to let thousands more die of wounds waiting for help.
Perhaps Book turned to faith by what caused him an equal amount of stress.. Perhaps he was " asked" ( forced ) to assist in somthing the feds had done.. and what he saw/did/heard has strained his faith and now aboard Serenity he seeks to regain it and find himself. Something he saw, had to do.. and left , went to the Abbey to find peaceand is back in the world a spell. In OOG his new faith is shaken and is hard finding comfort in the book and is afraid as River points out.
He has the strength ( inner ) and skill to act.. taking out the fed and shooting kneecaps as that is protecting, but a far cry from killing which is a no no.
sooo
Forced to work for the feds/alliance
Bad things happen
He becomes a shepherd to find peace in himself
Out in the world, it is not peaceful,
he like the rest, tries to cope.

The Journey is the worthier part.
www.southdownabby.com

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 13, 2004 2:20 AM

DESANGRO

Myself, I think that Book has an unpleasant past as an Alliance man (possibly a soldier or a secret government agent), and that, driven by guilt, he has taken up the life of a man of God. I believe that his faith is genuine; until he makes a move or says something that convinces me otherwise, I'm going to go with the character as portrayed and not think that he has some hidden, evil ulterior motive.

(Although he could possibly have a connection to the people that got River free from the Academy.)

I definitely think that Gabriel Tam (or Mr. Tam) was in on what the Blue Sun program was doing. I have a hunch that he actively sold his daughter to them for the "good of society", or something like that. He struck me as a person who's willing to compromise the happiness or wishes of another person to satistfy his own honor or prestige, or for some idea of benefit to the Alliance. Mrs. Tam seemed more clueless than sneaky, but since I loaned my DVDs out to my grandfather, I can't watch them again and make sure.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 10:02 AM

BOOKSWORD

Maybe Book and the Tams are not connected. Maybe he wants to save River in particuler because A)- he stood by while the same thing done to her was done to someone else, because he failed that person by following orders or B)- Maybe with his screwed up past of making victims, saving one victim might seem like redemption or C)- A shepard protects lost souls, whos on Serenity is more lost then River ?

Things that make you go Hmmmm ?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 11:24 AM

DESANGRO

I don't think that they are connected. It would be or seem too much like a cliche, to me, for Book to be a secretly evil person who is stalking River on some orders from the Alliance, and it would seem like too much of a coincedence for him to be actively watching over her at the behest of the people who helped Simon free her.

I think that Book is just a reformed person who tries to help everyone more or less equally on Serenity.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 1:07 PM

LIONHEART

Simon's parents, hmm. I can't say whether they knew what was happening, or even suspected. What I can say is that I believe you are all assuming that they think like well-off Americans (or Canadians, Australians etc). Remeber, the Alliance is half Chinese (at least). So I think it is logical to assume that after hundreds of years of exposure, even what we now call westerners would adopt their culture. In the world of Firefly the language, spoken and written, is common enough. Logically ideas of face and honour would be too.
The Tam's react in a way that suggests that they hold those ideas to heart, they are more interested in the staus quo, social and family standing, than individuals or their happiness.
These ideas aren't even exclsively Chinese, plenty of my friends parents are similar and I live in England.
Feel free to disagree, it's only a suggestion.

"Be bloody, bold and resolute..." Macbeth, Shakespeare
Some have said it sums me up.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:31 PM

TRASK43

Some pretty interesting theories, I wonder if river's parents will show up in the film.

www.summer-glau.com

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:34 PM

THERON

At the risk of sounding like I am plugging myself, my idea of who and what Shepherd Book is is on this thread. There is another thread in the archives that I cannot seem to find, that has a good many more ideas as well.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=7257

As for the Family Tam, I tend to agree with Lionheart. Simon's dad seems more interested in keeping things straight, normal and not rocking the boat. My gut instinct is he either has a clue about what is going on or outright knows, but is keeping it quite so as not to cause trouble. An interesting side note, in the Chinese culture female children are less valued then male children. So he simply may not care.

Just my two bits worth.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE