Why Firefly deserved to die by xed

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Why Firefly deserved to die

POSTED BY: XED
UPDATED: Friday, December 6, 2002 12:27
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VIEWED: 22293
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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 3:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Gaheris:
Now for my Defense
Aye. System of planets = Galaxy. Galaxy= big. still lots of distance.

Jeeze, still wrong. Structure of macroscopic universe is as follows...in a nutshell:

planets orbiting stars
star systems (ie. Sol = Solar system)
globular clusters (clusters of stars, not always present)
galaxy (Milky Way ~100 billion stars, ~80,000 light years wide, big)
local groups (20-50 galaxies, BIG)
local superclusters (several local groups, BIIGGGG)
universe (fooking HUGE).

To cross our Milky Way galaxy it would take 80,000 years if you were traveling at the speed of light. System of planets (not equal) galaxy.

Good points on your other items tho.

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 3:55 PM

UFO

As far as 100 rounds in a gun being unrealistic...hardly.

The amount of energy a slug (or any moving object for that matter) has is proportional to it's mass (m) and muzzle velocity (V) squared:

E=0.5mV^2

In fact, the amount of energy a slug has is more sensitive to the muzzle velocity (squared) than the mass). You can make a small deadly bullet by giving it large velocities. I'm sure there's technology in the world of Firefly to provide a sufficient propellant (ie. gun powder).

Sorry, too much physics in this post.

Point is, again, if they could colonize all these planets and any Joe Blow off the street can buy a ship, certainly they could have better projectile weapons than inefficient, yet reliable, six shooters. Especially since they just came out of a civil war and weapons should be floating all over the black market. Hell, everyone carries a weapon, so they must be plentiful.

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:01 PM

UFO

Quote:
Originally posted by YeAhItSme:
look at how easy it is to ship things around the planet today...are all the country have the latest technology in everything? NO! So I don't see why it would be different in the future when human has colonised many planet!

Totally different. The correct analogy would be if the U.S. were the only country on the planet and we suddenly discovered the rest of the planet uninhabited and colonized it....Would that colony have new technology and access to it? Probably.

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:15 PM

HOTFORKAYLEE

Hmmm,

Had FOX on in the background all night and have not seen one ad for Firefly. Plenty for John Doe though. At least in the past they would promo J.D. by saying after a new Firefly and sometimes even show a Firefly clip.

Joss has even said the December ratings really matter. It's a shame That his show is on a network that doesn't seem to care at all anymore.

Damn, I really love this show. In the off weeks I downloaded the pilot and the first few eps that I haven't seen since the start because I was not recording them back then.

It really is a shame we most likely only will get a few more but I am looking forward to seeing the reworked pilot as I really enjoyed the one floating around on the net.

Speaking of the pilot my Kaylee gets shot. So I would guess that Simon, River, and Inara are the only ones not to have gotten shot at some point. Even though we haven't seen Jayne, Zoe, or Wash get shot they all probably have due to their past except maybe for Wash. But who knows. Any thoughts?

Do you have anything worth dying for?

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:15 PM

GAHERIS

O...k... Sufficient propellent to launch a projectile which would be small enough to holster and plentiful enough to load 100. 1. The propellant would take up more space than the bullets. 2. Manufacturing these and making them ubiquitous would be a pain, especially in the wake of a civil war. 3. Enough powder/propellan/rocket fuel/whatever to propel a small bullet the range/power it would take to be decently effective would shatter the gun with one shot and send shrapnel flying at high speeds to impale the holder of the gun. That's what happens when pure theoretical physics meets engineering. Yes. A time machine is feasible. Get an infinitely long tube with reverse gravity and a way to spin it infinitely fast. Doesn't me we can do it. (I don't mean to sound too harsh, but 100 bullets just isn't feasible without elegant weaponry with huge costs to keep or Huge carrying with a flattened weapon-carrier at the end of a 2 inch hike) 4. Just because it looks old don't mean it be old. The revolving magazine wall is built in many gun today and style is just as important a part as pure killing. Why else would Jayne carry knives as well as a vast plethora of weaponry?
I'll grant that there are MANY weapons, but mostly we see them in the outer rim or edges of space. The weaponry seen in the only alliance territory core was on Ariel. Mucho high tech there.

And Mal isn't a Joe Blow off a street. He was a middling ranked independant officer, who ended up with a huge command. And ended up buying a non-flying wreck. I'm sure the salesman woulda been happy to get Serenity off his hands.

Gaheris

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:20 PM

OUTLANDER

The following is a believable history for Firefly:

The Earth was doomed. People were dumped on outer rim planets with little or no technolgy many of which where farmers or taught how to become farmers (which has to be the cheapest way to colonize a planets). For may hundreds or thousands of years the people on the planets have little or no contact with other planet. The people on these planets live very simple lives either by choice (the reason the inhabitability of Earth may have been because of some misuse of technology) or due to the lack of technology on hand. Then one day the Alliance arrives on their doorstep. Now The Alliance isn't going to start handing out the latest greatest technology are they particularly if they have plans of taking over theses planets and by keeping the populations on these planets primitive it makes it easy for the Alliance to keep control over.

People show use their brains rather than instantly disregarding the premises of Firefly and they shouldn't judge a show based on its props and costumes. Firefly is a show with strong characters and clever story lines.

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:29 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED

OK, I can see a reasonable size gun that can have 100 round clips. Just not with gunpowder as the propellent. So what if the gun propells the bullets with electromagnets as theorized numerous times before in several threads? Might work. It could give the smaller bullets the necessary velocity to overcome thier smaller mass. Seems to me that'd be less efficient though. Besides, if the whole reason these people are using regular guns is that they cannot afford anything fancy, then why would they uses some electromagnetic gun, which is by defination fancy?

________________

SPIKE: I must be a noble vampire. A good guy. On a mission of redemption. I help the hopeless. I'm a vampire with a soul.
BUFFY: A vampire with a soul? Oh my god, how lame is that?

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:44 PM

YEAHITSME

Quote:
Originally posted by UFO:
Quote:
Originally posted by YeAhItSme:
look at how easy it is to ship things around the planet today...are all the country have the latest technology in everything? NO! So I don't see why it would be different in the future when human has colonised many planet!

Totally different. The correct analogy would be if the U.S. were the only country on the planet and we suddenly discovered the rest of the planet uninhabited and colonized it....Would that colony have new technology and access to it? Probably.

When Europes colonised America we didn't get all the technologies they had until we could create them ourselves and/or afford to buy them...

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:53 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I guess this is where my lack of info shines thru. I assumed that the various worlds were colonized years... possibly a hundred years or more... earlier, long enough ago for them to have formed a separate identity from the Alliance, similar to the hundred fifty years or so between the colonization of North America and the Civil War. Long enough ago that even if they STARTED with high tech stuff, some of that technology was worn away.

But WHY has not technology spread more evenly? Is is because the outlying planets are dirt poor and can't afford it? Makes sense... civilization's center has the capability to enforce a negative flow of goods and services. Does this mean that the Alliance has a colonial relationship with the outlying planets? Is this part of the reason for the rebellion? Then the Alliance would establish many military bases to actively maintain control. This would create widespread resentment in people who are close enough to see what they're missing, which is out of reach by artificial barriers. (Think Phillipine slums.)

Or is it because the outlying planets themselves are too new or lacking essential resources to have developed independent economies and goods of equivalent trade value? In that case, the Alliance's relationship is one of "benign neglect"? (Only examples I can think of are small countries like Tibet or Costa Rica that have no resources of great value and are pretty much left alone economically.) Or is it simply one of time and distance, shipping costs and risks being too exhorbitant for widespread trade? In that case, the outlying planets are truly ignorant, seeing very little of the technology that is very far away, like the !Kung of the Kalahari. I know this is niggling, it defines the reactions of the populations they meet, not only to Firefly but also to the Alliance. Probably like today it's a mixture of things, but don't expect to see low value trade being conducted on planets that seem to be very backwater.

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 5:32 PM

BOBKNAPTOR

Quote:
Originally posted by YeAhItSme:
Quote:
Originally posted by UFO:
Quote:
Originally posted by YeAhItSme:
look at how easy it is to ship things around the planet today...are all the country have the latest technology in everything? NO! So I don't see why it would be different in the future when human has colonised many planet!

Totally different. The correct analogy would be if the U.S. were the only country on the planet and we suddenly discovered the rest of the planet uninhabited and colonized it....Would that colony have new technology and access to it? Probably.

When Europes colonised America we didn't get all the technologies they had until we could create them ourselves and/or afford to buy them...

I hate all these nested quotes, but oh well.... Look at the world we live in now... There are places in the world where the general population is so poor that they use rocks as weapons. It isn't because it is so difficult to get the super-duper high tech weapons, it is because they are too poor to pay for them. So yes, it is probably very easy to get stuff from one planet to another in the Firefly timeframe. But even Mal wouldn't deliver a big cargo of high tech equipment to people who couldn't afford to pay him for it.

If America suddenly colonized a bunch of new planets or continents if there were more, Many of the colonists would be wealthy, sure. And those colonists would take their fancy schmancy stuff. But a huge portion of the colonists would be the poor who are hoping to make a new start for themselves in a new place. (Like many Europeans came to America when we were just starting out). I don't think that the government would do much more than lay the groundwork for trade. Purchasing the technologies would still be up to the individual colonists.

______________
Wash: It's all very sweet... Stealing from the rich to sell to the poor...

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 6:07 PM

MILLERNATE

Quote:

When Europes colonised America we didn't get all the technologies they had until we could create them ourselves and/or afford to buy them...

I hate to jump in on this again but I have to say that this is a faulty analogy. This is because, while it is true that we got new technologies *slower* than Europe did that did not apply to existing technology. In regards to existing technology the colonists received the most advanced technology that their government (or in some specific cases, such as I believe Jamestown, their company) could give them. They were not given backwards technology, which the planets on Firefly seem to possess (well, most of them). You may well be right but you are arguing your case with the wrong analogy.

Nathan, analogy cop

"It looks like a great adventure...That's what it is; that's what it feels like. When I saw the pilot, it was really engaging. It was exciting. It was unusual. It threw me off every now and then. I think people will be grabbed by it." - Ron Glass, on the pilot, during an interview with the Indianapolis Star

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 6:44 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

OK, well I'm going to take one more bad stab at the ONE thing that bothers me about the show. And thanks for letting me pound a point to my satisfaction. (EVERYTHING else about the show is fine!!)

Look at "Shindig". Here we have a planet with an ante-bellum flavor: cotillions, slaves (I think), lords and ladies, plus advanced screening and suspension technology. If they have the advanced technology, they at least have to have electricity generation, metallurgy that goes with it, repair people and technicians.

Slave technologies generally didn't generate technological advances, for two reasons:

1) Work was very declasse (done only by slaves!)and...
2) Why invent labor-saving devices when you can just throw more people at a problem?

Unlikely this would be native tech, so the only way this would make sense is if that planet imported not only it's technology, but also it's technicians. Likely this planet has raw resources- food, metals, etc. to trade with the main planet. Lots of trade going back and forth. Comfortbale relationship with the main planet, I can make this scenario hang together, sort of. except that in real life exporters of raw materials usually wind up in disadvantaged relationships with technologically advanced nations, but... OK... historical accidents happen.

Now, one lord on this planet wants to smuggle cattle to some hinterland. Why is that a cause for smuggling? Sounds like honest trade to me! But furthermore, what is this other planet going to pay with?? They're dickering in some universal currency, but how is heaven's name does a god-forsaken planet like that scrape up enough currency when it seems like they're barely one step above "Deliverance"?

I guess my point is that planets are like people: they have to have a way to make a living, they have relationships with the other planets around them (are they a colony? a resort? an outpost? a power?), and in this show--- which centers around a smuggler-- they're defined by relationships of economy, politics, and technology. When those relationships don't seem to fit internally it "clunks" with me.

Ok, off the soapbox.

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 7:57 PM

XERIAR

Keep in mind that these settled worlds have no oil
deposites. It even takes a few years for biomass to
start producing any respectable amount of coal -
gas, diesel, heck even plastic is going to be
expensive. (Though there is biodeisel... hmm)

For the most part I've only had a couple of glaring
gripes with the series - purple lightning in space
(Of all the... I just find it funny now), and why
they seem to have artificial gravity but can't use
it to maneuver the ship on its own (or maybe they can
and the turbines are just help, not a bad idea).

Why moving cows around is contraband is also another
strange thing, but I think that was an issue with
local (the world they were taking them from),
rather than Alliance laws.

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 7:57 PM

XERIAR

Something must be done about that 'permission denied' thing.

Sorry.

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 3:00 AM

IDEFIX

about the cows: it was said in Shindig, that it was illegal to sell the cows off world. I assume it was a local law of that planet. and I thought the cows were shipped to that backwater planet because they are needed there more and so make more money there. I think it's about the same here on earth someplace. there are countries with lots of green land and so lots of cows and other foodstuff (we in germany here have more food than we can eat most of the time and germany is a heavily populated country) and there are countries with say oil or some metals or something and they trade. maybe the planet in Safe had something valueable to pay for the cattle and we've just never seen it. or the cows don't sell on the planet from Shindig, because there are just too many cows there, so getting something (even if it's little) from the guys from Safe is better than having to burn the meat on the Shindig planet.

on another matter:
what really really bugs me about technology in Firefly is the weird way it's used.
there was a holographic (or soimething similar) window in the bar in The Train Job. and there were holographic balls on the pool table in Shindig. both bars looked dirty and cheap and backwater to me. why would they have exactly one thing of real fancy technology and this one thing wouldn't be anything useful? one could easily live with glass windows and normal pool balls forever, there's no need for them to be holographic. so why not have anything usefull, like a gun-scanner (like tha one at the ball in Shindig) or anything else that would actually make a difference to the bar owner or the guests.

do you understand what I mean?

Idefix

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 3:54 AM

SILVERADO

>>>there was a holographic (or soimething similar) window in the bar in The Train Job. and there were holographic balls on the pool table in Shindig. both bars looked dirty and cheap and backwater to me. why would they have exactly one thing of real fancy technology and this one thing wouldn't be anything useful?<<<

Because it *is* "useful".
Most "useful" even.
From the barowner's perspective.

"Dirty and cheap backwater" bar?
Right.
Means a lot of brawls.
The bar window always breaks first- as we know from our favorite western movies.
What's cheaper and more "useful"?
To buy a new window each week or spend some bigger bucks on a holographic one that will nevr break again?

And yeah, holographic pool table balls.
Can't be stolen.
Can't be used as weapons.
Can't get lost.
Buy a new set of balls each month or buy a holographic one and stop worrying about drunken customers and missing balls.

Plus it was fun to look at.

Regards:

Silverado.

~Ruttin proud Keeper of Mal's boot kicking a certain sucker into a certain hungry engine ( http://www.geocities.com/keeperqueen76).

_________________________________________________

"You had the law on you, criminals and savages... half the people on the ship have been shot or wounded including yourself, and you're harboring known fugitives."

"We're still flying."

"That's not much."

"It's enough."

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 4:12 AM

HOOK

Quote:
Originally posted by Xeriar:
Keep in mind that these settled worlds have no oil deposites. It even takes a few years for biomass to start producing any respectable amount of coal - gas, diesel, heck even plastic is going to be
expensive. (Though there is biodeisel... hmm)

If this is true (old plant and animal biomass produces oil) why is Titan (a moon of Saturn) covered in it?

I see no reason why settled worlds wouldn't have any oil. I am afraid your model of where oil comes from is a little outdated and incorrect.

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 6:18 AM

XERIAR

Quote:

If this is true (old plant and animal biomass
produces oil) why is Titan (a moon of Saturn)
covered in it?

Titan has methane, or natural gas. It's a kind of
oil, sure, if you want to be picky, but it has
nowhere near the fuel efficiency of biomass oils.

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 8:18 AM

ELDOR

I picture the holographic window and pool table like neon signs and arcade games are today. 500 years ago, a neon sign or arcade game would make people's jaws drop. Sure the holo window and pool table look flashy and high tech to us but they're probably cheap tech and easily available.

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 9:32 AM

BOBKNAPTOR

Quote:
Originally posted by Idefix:
on another matter:
what really really bugs me about technology in Firefly is the weird way it's used.
there was a holographic (or soimething similar) window in the bar in The Train Job. and there were holographic balls on the pool table in Shindig. both bars looked dirty and cheap and backwater to me. why would they have exactly one thing of real fancy technology and this one thing wouldn't be anything useful? one could easily live with glass windows and normal pool balls forever, there's no need for them to be holographic. so why not have anything usefull, like a gun-scanner (like tha one at the ball in Shindig) or anything else that would actually make a difference to the bar owner or the guests.

Think of it this way... Sports Bars now... in the little crappy backwoods town I grew up in, Sports Bars had lots of fights and unsavory characters. But they still have the huge projector TV and tons of smaller TVs all around the bar and DVD players and the like. That's relatively decent technology that can be expensive (especially the big projector TV). But the bars pay for it because it brings in the customers the way, oh, say, a metal detector at the door (also technology that is currently available, and probably not too much more expensive than all those TVs) could not.

Not to mention - If you were the type of person who carried weapons, you would be unlikely to go into a bar that made you check your weapons at the door. I used to be friends with a guy who didn't go anywhere without a handgun (he's a freak, don't ask me why he felt he needed the gun, but he did). Washington state law says no firearms in a bar, so whenever we went to out to eat with our group of friends, it was always a debate... sit in the bar where the smokers could smoke or sit in the restaraunt where they can't smoke, but gunboy could keep his weapon. Whenever the smokers won out, gunboy would leave rather than put his gun in his car. In a society where most, or at least many, people carry weapons of one form or another, you'd be chasing away business to have folks checked out when they come in.

______________
Angel: Do you know how hard it is to think straight with a rebar through your torso?
Cordelia: Actually, I do. Benefits of a Sunnydale education.

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 10:23 AM

HOOK

Quote:
Originally posted by Xeriar:
Quote:

If this is true (old plant and animal biomass
produces oil) why is Titan (a moon of Saturn)
covered in it?

Titan has methane, or natural gas. It's a kind of
oil, sure, if you want to be picky, but it has
nowhere near the fuel efficiency of biomass oils.

By mass methane is the most fuel efficient hydrocarbon...and there is strong speculation that methane isn't the only hydrocarbon on Titan...they just can't see through the methane atmosphere to know at the moment but I guess we will just have to wait until 2004 when cassini drops some probes on it. :)

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 10:42 AM

KURUKAMI

Quote:
look at how easy it is to ship things around the planet today...are all the country have the latest technology in everything? NO! So I don't see why it would be different in the future when human has colonised many planet!

Haven't shipped things to other countries very recently, have you? I've ended up making tape-copies for acquaintances and shipping them all over the place in the past year. For most things within the U.S., yeah, it'll get there in three to five business days. Canada? About the same. England? More than a week, for certain. Israel? Two and a half to three weeks, at the least.

And just try shipping something to, say, the boonies in Afghanistan or Kenya. There's no guarantee it's even going to get there, and if it does the person delivering it is almost certainly going to need to pay "border fees" (read: bribes) to those in control of the territory.

Perhaps, however, I have mistaken your intent -- and you're saying "easy" in an ironic manner. That is, it ISN'T easy to ship things to various places on this planet, particularly given the vast differences in tech levels.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 10:50 AM

KURUKAMI

Quote:
Originally posted by UFO:
As far as 100 rounds in a gun being unrealistic...hardly.

The amount of energy a slug (or any moving object for that matter) has is proportional to it's mass (m) and muzzle velocity (V) squared:

E=0.5mV^2

In fact, the amount of energy a slug has is more sensitive to the muzzle velocity (squared) than the mass). You can make a small deadly bullet by giving it large velocities. I'm sure there's technology in the world of Firefly to provide a sufficient propellant (ie. gun powder).

And the less massive the bullet, the less likely it is to penetrate obstacles or cut through bone. Or, to paraphrase an immortal quote:

"Wow! Now I can flatten light ammo against body armor faster than ever before!"

Quote:
Sorry, too much physics in this post. Point is, again, if they could colonize all these planets and any Joe Blow off the street can buy a ship, certainly they could have better projectile weapons than inefficient, yet reliable, six shooters. Especially since they just came out of a civil war and weapons should be floating all over the black market. Hell, everyone carries a weapon, so they must be plentiful.

Any Joe off the street WITH SUFFICIENT CAPITAL can purchase a ship, which rules out pretty much any of the Joes in the borderworlds. Additionally, given that the Alliance DID just triumph in a Civil War, they're almost certainly going to be cracking down big-time on any suspected advanced-arms deals, simply to insure that they don't have to face a re-armed Independents movement ten years down the road. Many people carry weapons -- but they're low-tech, and certainly not the kind of advanced weaponry that we've seen on Alliance ships (the railgun that took out the Reaver'd ship in Bushwhacked) and in Alliance security (the sonic stunners wielded by the hospital security force in Ariel).

Sure, a person MAY have a high-tech gun and advanced ammunition -- but obtaining that on border worlds where supply ships clearly don't come often and where the general level of technology (something certainly required to manufacture said gun or said ammo) is substantially lower than on the Core worlds is nigh-impossible. Thus, the low-tech projectile weapons.

Besides which -- simply because higher tech exists doesn't necessarily make lower tech that much less effective. Sure, you may have lasers and advanced ferroceramic body armor, but when I shove a sharpened stick thru your eye and into your brain you'll still be dead.

Bottom line -- if you want a gun with a hundred-plus "smart" bullets, advanced ammunition loads, and all the foofaraw you can choke down, be my guest. Of course, it'll be half again the size of a Thompson SMG -- that is, completely unconcealable -- and when you run out of ammo on those oh so low-tech border worlds you'll have a very expensive and rather fragile club. Lead bullets can be cast, and brass cartridges reloaded, and the simpler the mechanism the less likely it is to break down. Just look at the AK-47 -- it's been around for fifty-five years now and it's STILL an effective and dangerous weapon.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 11:09 AM

SILVERADO

*sigh*

Hey, LivingImpaired ... do you think they will *ever* stop?

Silverado.

~Ruttin proud Keeper of Mal's boot kicking a certain sucker into a certain hungry engine ( http://www.geocities.com/keeperqueen76).

_________________________________________________

"You had the law on you, criminals and savages... half the people on the ship have been shot or wounded including yourself, and you're harboring known fugitives."

"We're still flying."

"That's not much."

"It's enough."

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 11:52 AM

BOBKNAPTOR

Quote:
Originally posted by Silverado:
*sigh*
Hey, LivingImpaired ... do you think they will *ever* stop?

Are we making you crazy, Silverado?

I love these kinds of discussions. I think it's awesome that people have put so much thought into this stuff. I find when I watch the show, I just accept everything but the characters and action as fact. It never occurs to me that something may be off with the technology. So to hear everyone's opinions about what is feasible and what is foolish is very cool. Makes me think more about the show.

Edit: Bob shows her age with words like "AWESOME".

Younger folks: please read "awesome" as whatever the newest hippest slang is for "really good".
______________
Simon: It's good. It tastes like.... It's good.
Jayne: It smells like Crotch!

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 2:19 PM

XERIAR

Quote:

By mass methane is the most fuel efficient hydrocarbon...and there is strong speculation that methane isn't the only hydrocarbon on Titan...they just can't see through the methane atmosphere to know at the moment but I guess we will just have to wait until 2004 when cassini drops some probes on it. :)

True, it is also the -least- space-efficient hydrocarbon,
what with Avagadro's 'hypothesis' and all. Also a
gas at room temperature, which means either pressurization
(added complexity) or serious cooling (ditto) to use
in moving vehicles.

Also keep in mind that ultimately the hydrocarbon chains
that make life have to be cannibalized from something
during the terraforming process. I would imagine
that only so much original methane remains.

Biodeisel is different, however, but that becomes a
food - fuel trade off, I think more recent settlements
would want to go with food first.

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 4:56 PM

EVANS

Quote:
Originally posted by bobknaptor:
Edit: Bob shows her age with words like "AWESOME". Younger folks: please read "awesome" as whatever the newest hippest slang is for "really good".

I remember when "awesome" still meant "capable of producing a feeling of awe," such as in "Behold God's awesome majesty," and not, "Wow, that was really awesome, dude!" But then, I also remember when Alaska and Hawaii entered the Union.

m.
------------------------------------------------
"But ... not boring, like she made it sound." Wash, in ARIEL

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 6:30 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED

Quote:
Originally posted by Silverado:
*sigh*

Hey, LivingImpaired ... do you think they will *ever* stop?

Considering how long I've been here, and how much these discussions have gone nowhere, I'm guessing "no." God, how many posts are in the "My Theory on Guns in Firefly" thread by now. I have a high speed connection, and that thread takes a while to load.

________________

Sorry, sir. Didn't mean to enjoy the moment.

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 10:40 PM

BOBKNAPTOR

I'm starting to feel more and more like one of the troika from last season's Buffy as I read/respond to these threads...

______________
But ... everyone knows... if the width of a wormhole cavity is a whole number of wavelengths, plus a fraction of that wavelength? The coinciding particle activity collapses the infrastructure.

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Thursday, December 5, 2002 2:12 AM

GWENNIE

There were too many replys to read all of them, but to you I say................ BITE ME!

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Thursday, December 5, 2002 2:27 PM

TINYTIMM

Quote:
Originally posted by Idefix:
what really really bugs me about technology in Firefly is the weird way it's used.
there was a holographic (or soimething similar) window in the bar in The Train Job. and there were holographic balls on the pool table in Shindig. both bars looked dirty and cheap and backwater to me. why would they have exactly one thing of real fancy technology and this one thing wouldn't be anything useful?

This is after a major war. Civilization has stumbled, if not fallen in many places. Some artifacts survive, mainly because they weren't worth looting or selling for food.

All sorts of strange stuff turned up in strange places after the 1939-1945 war.

At Entebbe airfield in Uganda a whole air terminal sits, still shot up from the raid. The Aircraft involved still sits there. Fighter aircraft with a problem are pushed to one side, can't be fixed. Aircraft just sitting, no owner but the government (such as it is) and noone with the skills to exploit the recycleables.

Jeff Timm
Who wonders about a world where a house can have a satellite link and a color TV, but no indoor plumbing.

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Thursday, December 5, 2002 3:16 PM

HOOK

At the moment I am reading a book called "The lexus and the olive tree" by Thomas Friedman. The book is esentially about globablization and the impact it is having on the worlds economy, cultures, technology, and enviornment...one of the most stikeing points put into the book are the huge descrepinies found between the haves and the have-nots.
In one passage the author descibes a train trip he took in egypt in which he was surrounded by the upper class of egypt who all had cell phones labtops PDAs etc and when he would look out the window he saw barefoot farmers tilling the fields along the Nile river with water buffalo. Esentially doing the same work in the same way as people did it durring the time of the pharaohs.
It is fairly obvoiuse that the writers of the show developed this idea of desparity of technology and wealth as a metaphor for what is happing right now in the real world.

hook

http://diogenes.gotdns.org

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Friday, December 6, 2002 12:27 PM

TINYTIMM

Quote:
Originally posted by Evans:
I remember when "awesome" still meant "capable of producing a feeling of awe," such as in "Behold God's awesome majesty," and not, "Wow, that was really awesome, dude!" But then, I also remember when Alaska and Hawaii entered the Union.

And Awful once meant "filling with awe."

Jeff
Who also remembers 48 States, but wants to add four or five from Canada and South Eire...

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