GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Kaylee and River

POSTED BY: HOTFORKAYLEE
UPDATED: Saturday, December 7, 2002 15:49
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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:02 PM

HOTFORKAYLEE



Okay, What's your take? at the end of the episode was Kaylee afraid of River or was she ashamed of her actions during the fight

"Oh, hey, free soup"



Quote:

"They're getting faster... I could swear they are evolving right before my eyes. If you see something this big with eight legs, let me now. I have to kill it before it develops language skills."




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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:08 PM

KEF


Ashamed. Very very ashamed. And River's the only one who knows the truth.

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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:09 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED


Yeah, I'm going with ashamed. Kaylee had this opertunity to prove herself, and she and the all-important ship was saved by the invalid.

________________

Well, you were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:10 PM

SERGEANTX


The most interesting part of the ep IMHO. I think she was just really creeped out. Her little buddy River is a killing machine. I wonder if she'll tell anyone else? I see River's role changing dramatically if she ever gets her head straight.... but if that happens mayber her 'powers' will go away. Man, what did they do to her? powerful stuff..


SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:11 PM

GAHERIS


I'll have to go with actually "scared". River was very freaky. They both ran around and played like little girls. But Kaylee set out to use her gun. River, displayed skills that Jayne would be hard-put to equal and then repeated the "No one in this 'verse can stop me" quote. I'd say Kaylee's gonna keep a bit more distance from River from now on.

-Gaheris

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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:12 PM

RADEGUND


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
The most interesting part of the ep IMHO. I think she was just really creeped out. Her little buddy River is a killing machine. I wonder if she'll tell anyone else?



In order to tell someone, Kaylee will have to admit what happened. She'll have to get over being ashamed of freaking out.

Radegund

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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:14 PM

KEF


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
I think she was just really creeped out. Her little buddy River is a killing machine. I wonder if she'll tell anyone else?

What I think is that Kaylee's afraid of River telling the others that she (Kaylee) folded under pressure!

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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:17 PM

KEF


To clarify, I don't think that Kaylee was afraid of River shooting a gun. They were ALL shooting guns, even Simon and Book!

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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:19 PM

SERGEANTX


I dunno, I don't see Kaylee basing her ego much on firefights. If she'd messed up something in her ship she might be ashamed, but no one on the crew would really expect her to kick ass or anything.

On a slightly different topic, what if book is/was an agent for a rival gov't entity that knows about the blue hands, and is keeping an eye on River?... its a possibility.



SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:22 PM

SERGEANTX


...especially after his comments about the government being made up of people.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:22 PM

DOCEBO


I would be temped to agree with you, but having seen the pilot I can almost 100% cofidently say that Book was not sent to watch river by anyone. I think he may be watching her now, but that was not why he originally came aboard serenity.

-Docebo

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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:24 PM

SERGEANTX


Yeah, I don't suppose he was terribly deliberate in choosing Serenity. Oh well, I hope we get to find out.


SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:30 PM

HOTFORKAYLEE


Almost tempted to start another thread for this one but what about since the end of Ariel and this one Jayne's seeming transformation? Buying fresh apples for the crew, pitching in his money, and going along for the fight.

Has he maybe learned something and is turning into "family man" Jayne?



Quote:

"I would be dead if not for you. You risked your life to save mine."
"You would have done the same."
"Yes, but I'm a better person."


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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:31 PM

KEF


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
I dunno, I don't see Kaylee basing her ego much on firefights. If she'd messed up something in her ship she might be ashamed, but no one on the crew would really expect her to kick ass or anything.

On a slightly different topic, what if book is/was an agent for a rival gov't entity that knows about the blue hands, and is keeping an eye on River?... its a possibility.

I agree with you actually! It's not that she's ashamed that she couldn't fire a gun. She's ashamed that she let the crew down in a crisis, when everyone else managed to step up to the plate.

Also, I've kinda suspected that myself about Book. But I have yet to see the pilot ep, which supposedly explains why he joined the crew.

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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:36 PM

KEF


Quote:

Originally posted by HotForKaylee:
Almost tempted to start another thread for this one but what about since the end of Ariel and this one Jayne's seeming transformation? Buying fresh apples for the crew, pitching in his money, and going along for the fight.

Has he maybe learned something and is turning into "family man" Jayne?

At the risk of starting another Great Jayne Debate (I'm the one who started the last one) I think he was being generous with his cut of the profits with the rest of the crew purely out of shame for what he tried to do on Ariel.

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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:55 PM

KEF


I'm curious as to whether River's "gunplay mode" was an indication of what the Alliance was trying to turn her into, which some people here seem to think? Or was she just channeling another personality, the way she did in "Shindig"?
I suspect the latter.

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Friday, December 6, 2002 6:08 PM

JONSP


On the question of Kaylee feeling ashamed or afraid, I'd say all of the above. Several emotions seem to pass over Kaylee's face in her last scene.

She's ashamed all for herself. She feels as if she failed Mal and the crew, and probably as if she failed herself too. She expected better of herself.

She's also ashamed that River saw her crumble. And it only makes it worse that River turned out to be The Terminator. So now Kaylee's both afraid of River and ashamed that this frail little girl who she played with ended up taking charge when she herself fell apart.

Overall, Kaylee looks like she just doesn't know what to think right now, either of River or herself.

*sniff* One of the most heart-wrenching moments in my TV watching career, seeing that gun shaking in Kaylee's hand.

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Friday, December 6, 2002 6:20 PM

KEF


Quote:

Originally posted by JonSP:
I'd say all of the above. Several emotions seem to pass over Kaylee's face in her last scene.

She's ashamed all for herself. She feels as if she failed Mal and the crew, and probably as if she failed herself too. She expected better of herself.

She's also ashamed that River saw her crumble. And it only makes it worse that River turned out to be The Terminator. So now Kaylee's both afraid of River and ashamed that this frail little girl who she played with ended up taking charge when she herself fell apart.

Overall, Kaylee looks like she just doesn't know what to think right now, either of River or herself.

*sniff* One of the most heart-wrenching moments in my TV watching career, seeing that gun shaking in Kaylee's hand.

VERY well stated, JonSP! (Particularly your last line.)

And did anyone notice that chilling look that RIVER gave to KAYLEE when River was standing on the catwalk, and then walked away?

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Friday, December 6, 2002 6:34 PM

HOTFORKAYLEE


Quote:

Originally posted by kef:



And did anyone notice that chilling look that RIVER gave to KAYLEE when River was standing on the catwalk, and then walked away?




Two by two, hands of blue....I know something they don't know.? Hmmm.


Quote:

"There, you see! I'm going to live."
"So it would seem. Well, it's an imperfect universe."



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Friday, December 6, 2002 6:43 PM

KEF


Quote:

Two by two, hands of blue....I know something they don't know.? Hmmm.
Indeed!

Just went back and watched again and noticed another interesting detail.

River was able to shoot the guards without looking. And when River took the gun from Kaylee, she said to herself, "Can't look. Can't look."

Was she psyching herself?

"Psyching" as in she used her powers to be able to hit them without actually seeing them?

Or "psyching" as in she couldn't look at someone she was about to shoot because killing is abhorent to her?

Man, what an addictive show.

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Friday, December 6, 2002 6:55 PM

AVALON


Quote:

Originally posted by kef:

River was able to shoot the guards without looking. And when River took the gun from Kaylee, she said to herself, "Can't look. Can't look."




See, I thought that was interesting, too -- mostly because it was almost an echo of what Book had just been telling Simon -- "Don't think; just shoot." In all likelihood Simon, if he thought about what he was doing, would freeze up or at least hesitate and not be able to shoot. In the same way, maybe, if River looked her adversaries in the face, she'd also freeze up or not be able to shoot. (River's previous reactions during fights or the suggestion of violence tend to indicate that violence scares and sickens her.)

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Friday, December 6, 2002 6:57 PM

HOTFORKAYLEE


Quote:

Originally posted by kef:

River was able to shoot the guards without looking. And when River took the gun from Kaylee, she said to herself, "Can't look. Can't look."


Man, what an addictive show.



Just watched it again too. First she looks around and sees all the bad guys. Then she says can't look. Does she record their positions in her mind or connect with them through special powers to know where they are? Or could it be she's just a killing machine who's instincts just kick in?

After this episode I might have to change my name to HotForRiver or HotForTheCounsler.

Nah, ain't likely



Quote:

"The great thing about war is that it advances technology. Bad thing is about war is that most of this technology is destructive."



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Saturday, December 7, 2002 3:49 PM

EVANS


Quote:

Originally posted by HotForKaylee:
afraid of River or was she ashamed of her actions


"Creeped out" as is suggested earlier, plus ashamed and/or embarrassed, plus confused, lots and lots of confused.

m.
------------------------------------------------
"But ... not boring, like she made it sound." Wash, in ARIEL

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