New Firefly fan! by tvdir

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

New Firefly fan!

POSTED BY: TVDIR
UPDATED: Thursday, December 12, 2002 08:10
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VIEWED: 4492
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Sunday, December 8, 2002 8:47 AM

Hi everyone,
I'm a new fan. I have been looking at the board for weeks now. I usually don't post, but I thought I would break out and say Hi.

I missed the first three episodes, but I started on "Jaynestown." Although I thought the episode was OK (I laughed at the Western part), I gave the show another chance the following week ("Out of Gas" drew me in -- great job!). And I have been a fan since then.

I'm also a "Star Trek" fan (as well as "Battlestar Galactica" fan), but I must say "Firefly" is so superior than the latest "Enterprise." The stories on "Enterprise" is so lame compared to FF. As everyone said in posts, "War Stories", too, had me on the edge of my seat. I never enjoyed an episode as much as that one. A little too violent (shocking for network TV), but it was action-packed.

I know everyone would love to see it on DVD now, but it would better to keep the show on-the-air first. Even though we all know what the chances are for a FOX renewal for this season, we should keep hoping for a miracle. Maybe FOX should remember what happened with NBC's "JAG." They cancelled it, and CBS picked it up. And now look, a major hit for CBS. If only NBC waited.... (they also lost "Baywatch", too)

Maybe Joss should change the name of the show to:

"Star Trek: Firefly"
"Law and Order: Firefly"
"CSI: Firefly"

OK, a liitle joke, but the show would have many seasons under the title.

Hope to talk to some of you as we all hope for a renewal.

Thanks!

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Sunday, December 8, 2002 9:29 AM

LIVINGIMPAIRED

Welcome. It's always good to see a new face here.

________________

You know there are quite a few American beers that are highly underrated. This, unfortunately, is not one of them.

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Sunday, December 8, 2002 10:06 AM

TWIRLIP

Quote:
Originally posted by tvdir:
I must say "Firefly" is so superior than the latest "Enterprise." The stories on "Enterprise" is so lame compared to FF.

I'm right there with you. The thing that bugs me about "Enterprise" is the way they've done such a halfhearted job of introducing interpersonal conflict into the show. Through the pilot and the first couple of episodes, it seemed like they were trying to build an ensemble cast with plenty of friction, made up of characters that had their own quirks. The captain and the Vulcan didn't even get along very well.

Now, though, all that is gone, gone. Everybody gets along great. There are no shouting matches, no fistfights. Which is in keeping with Gene Roddenberry's vision, I suppose-- I remember that he wrote in reference to "The Next Generation" that the characters were not to have the petty jealousies and squabbles that real people are heir to-- but it's boring as all get out.

On Firefly, on the other hand, characters threaten to blow each other out of airlocks. There's shouting and disagreeableness. Everybody manages to get along, but only barely, and with gritted teeth. Now that's interesting.

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Sunday, December 8, 2002 10:16 AM

TVDIR

Yes, exactly my thoughts on Enterprise. The last new episode where Hoshi was afraid to use the transporter, the ending was so terrible. To build up the entire episode (i.e. she missing, Archer telling her father she is dead, the morse code, aliens bombing the ship, etc.) then to end it with, "Oh, you were stuck in the transporter buffer for 8 seconds." Give me a break. I never seen a "Star Trek" episode so lousy developed in the writing. This is a season and a half of adventures, while Firefly is under ten so far. And the episodes I have seen are so incredibily developed with its characters.

I'm not a Buffy or Angel (never have seen them) viewer, so I'm watching this as a sci-fi viewer, regardless of Joss and his involvement. He and his team (along with the actors) have impressed me.

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Sunday, December 8, 2002 11:46 AM

SAINTOFCHEESE

welcome to the nuthouse! hehe. The world needs more firefly fans,so do your best to get people addicted!

~*Saint of Cheese*~

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Sunday, December 8, 2002 3:54 PM

TWIRLIP

Quote:
Originally posted by tvdir:
I never seen a "Star Trek" episode so lousy developed in the writing.

Oh, I don't know. I think the one a few weeks ago that was basically lifted from The Seven Samurai (and The Magnificent Seven, and A Bug's Life, for cryin' out loud) was pretty weak. As I watched, two thoughts kept bouncing through my head. The first, "Must... change... channel," I was pretty well able to ignore. But the second stayed with me.

It was the idea that if I were writing that episode, I would have had the heros lose. Klingons come back, see that the clever heros have moved the town, beam down in force, and start killing civilians. A complete massacre. Archer and his crew manage to get out only by the slimmest of margins, and even then with only some kind of long-term consequences. Maybe they would have been able to rescue one or two of the civilians, and had to keep them aboard the ship for several months while they made their way back to Earth. Maybe a crewmember could have lost a limb or something. That would have been worth watching. No reset buttons, though; Archer's personality would have been seriously affected by his knowledge that his cockiness led to the deaths of umpty-bump dozen innocent people, and that he should have left well enough alone. Hey, maybe they could have even made some kind of sidewise reference to a new general order from Starfleet on that topic.

Also would have had the side-benefit of establishing the Klingons as first-class badasses, something that the series sorely needs.

But no, instead we got a "they-lived-happily-ever-after" story. For crying out loud, "Leave It To Beaver" had more conflict and drama than this!

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Sunday, December 8, 2002 4:10 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED

Quote:
Originally posted by Twirlip:
I were writing that episode, I would have had the heros lose. Klingons come back, see that the clever heros have moved the town, beam down in force, and start killing civilians. A complete massacre. Archer and his crew manage to get out only by the slimmest of margins, and even then with only some kind of long-term consequences. Maybe they would have been able to rescue one or two of the civilians, and had to keep them aboard the ship for several months while they made their way back to Earth. Maybe a crewmember could have lost a limb or something. That would have been worth watching. No reset buttons, though; Archer's personality would have been seriously affected by his knowledge that his cockiness led to the deaths of umpty-bump dozen innocent people, and that he should have left well enough alone. Hey, maybe they could have even made some kind of sidewise reference to a new general order from Starfleet on that topic.

Gee, that seem's like something Joss would write.

________________

"You can pretty much follow the rest, or make stuff up. This part isn't about me so much, so I'm bored already." -- Joss Whedon

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Sunday, December 8, 2002 4:26 PM

TWIRLIP

Quote:
Originally posted by LivingImpaired:
Gee, that seem's like something Joss would write.

Maybe I'm too big a fan. Or maybe I'm secretly Joss, posting in secret. Secretly. Maybe.

Probably not, though. Almost certainly not, I would say. If I were Joss, I would know. I might not admit it, however. Which more or less amounts to the same thing from everybody else's point of view. I think.

But one thing's for sure: I am not a porn star.

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Sunday, December 8, 2002 7:44 PM

TVDIR

Have you noticed nobody has died on Enterprise yet. Not even a security man. Archer has a good clean record after 35 episodes or so.

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Sunday, December 8, 2002 7:55 PM

DRAUGLUIN

That is so un Trek if I watched that show it would make me cry.

How ya supposed to play guess who's gonna die ( like in the original) if nobody dies.

_____________
Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark.

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Monday, December 9, 2002 8:04 AM

HJERMSTED

Hasn't anyone figured out yet that Enterprise is 100% Rated G?

They should move Enterprise to Saturday mornings.

mattro

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Monday, December 9, 2002 8:35 AM

TWIRLIP

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
Hasn't anyone figured out yet that Enterprise is 100% Rated G?

For a G-rated show, it sure has a lot of gratuitous T&A. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy looking at pretty girls as much as anybody, but the idea of a Vulcan with giant fake boobs just doesn't work for me. Suspension of disbelief only gets you so far, you know?

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Monday, December 9, 2002 8:41 AM

HJERMSTED

Forgot about those contrived de-contamination room scenes. PG-13 on those days.

Still, I've seen Saturday morning X-Men cartoons with better character tension/development than Enterprise.

mattro

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Wednesday, December 11, 2002 4:42 PM

DARKLADY

I have never understood that "no interpersonal conflict" thing. I mean, every single text out there in the universe about drama tells you it MEANS conflict! the original Trek had plenty of conflict.

Plus, I'm a sucker for some good Trip/Reed subtext and they do that best when they're arguing. *g*

Fortunately "Enterprise" is my "watching because the guys are cute and no braincells are required" show. I have Buffy and Firefly (for now) for the higher level viewing.

DL

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Wednesday, December 11, 2002 5:54 PM

TWIRLIP

Quote:
Originally posted by DarkLady:
I have never understood that "no interpersonal conflict" thing.

Well, if I remember right, Roddenberry wrote at some point-- maybe in the show bible-- that the characters on Star Trek don't have the petty jealousies that we have. So conflict, yes, but no childish conflict.

I think "War Stories" puts this in perspective nicely. The motivation for that entire episode was Wash's petty jealousy of Mal. (Or of Zoe. Or whatever. I won't even touch that discussion.) I mean, can you imagine the episode without that?

"Gee, Zoe, I think I'd like to go with the Captain this time."

"Okay, honey. Have a good time! *smooch*"

(later)

"Well, Wash, it looks like we're being tortured. Ow!"

"Yeah. Good thing we have our mature, platonic friendship to keep us sane-- ow!-- because I don't think I could stand this-- ow!-- if I were by myself. Ow!"

"Indeed, old friend. Ow! Say, how's Zoe? Ow!"

"She's fine. Ow!"

And so on. *shudder* I hesitate to even think along those lines any further. I'll take the petty stuff any day, thank you very much.

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Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:34 PM

HOOK

Quote:
Originally posted by DarkLady:
Fortunately "Enterprise" is my "watching because the guys are cute and no braincells are required" show. I have Buffy and Firefly (for now) for the higher level viewing.DL

I would disagree with the view point that Firefly is more of a "Intelligent" show then Star Trek. To be sure, I enjoy Firefire more but in most respects it is a visceral experience. It has all those moments that tweak the heart like when Wash made his decision to go save Malcolm in "War Stories" or when Malcolm confronts Jayne at the air lock in "Ariel". These are moments of high emotion. Its not the brain that is pulling the audience in, but the heart.
In contrast Star Trek is about sub-space, aliens, and the implications of technological change to our humanity. The later still relatively untouched in Firefly. I mean Firefly is no Philip K Dick novel.
One thing that Firefly does do is demand the viewers attention...but of course the ability to pay attention to a television drama has never been germane in gauging intelligence :)

hook

http://diogenes.gotdns.org

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Thursday, December 12, 2002 2:21 AM

GROOVYAL

Enterprise is still surviving due to the "star-trek-bonus", if it would be a newly designed show in a newly designed universe, i guess i wouldn't want to see it, but just a lil protection for Enterprise, DS9 started so terribly boring and developed quite well, so in enterprise it can only get better.
My guess is that enterprise has a great lack of "bad guys", not that "lets kick some innocent asses bad guys" but this "moral" bad guys, bit like the empire in Star Wars, and there is this captn tightpants who is not a man of restrictions and protocols so he does what he wants - like kicking other people into engines - and this is also something you wouldnt find in Enterprise. And the third problem of Ent is that its kinda predictible, which is totaly different in FF, there are often situations whre you are expecting the characters to think but they just do (zoe, deciding which man to take in war stories).

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Thursday, December 12, 2002 8:10 AM

ALLRONIX

Hey, it's all groundwork at this point. Remember tha B5 took a couple seasons to start breaking out the dynamite.

X-Files also started building up steam slowly. But, holy smokes, when it was good...questions galore.

Trek, on its better moments did ask the Big Questions. It hasn't done that in years, IMO. DS9 got a big war. The whole universe just turned militaristic and dark. The Enterprise-E is a WARSHIP. Not a ship of exploration that's equipped to defend itself, but a bonna fide gunboat. That disturbed me most of all, I think.

Other Roddenberry concoctions met with the same fate, and it is rather sad. Andromeda started off pretty cool, but I'm not sure about what it is now. And anyone ever check out Earth: Final Conflict?

(You're talking to a Trekker who's left the fandom, FYI. Spent five years heavily involved, especially in early DS9 fandom.)

And I dunno much about Buffy, aside from it also took a couple years to start going to the limits with the characters. Right now, we're still just learning who these folks are. Hopefully, FOX will be nice enough to let us see these characters for many years and many levels.

Co-founder of the Evil Writing Crew - causing hell, one hero at a time!

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