I was a HUGE fan of Firefly until last night's episode... by FireflyClassAct

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I was a HUGE fan of Firefly until last night's episode...

POSTED BY: FIREFLYCLASSACT
UPDATED: Thursday, December 12, 2002 17:08
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Wednesday, December 11, 2002 4:39 PM

if the cut scene was that important then, or at least balanced it as not ratings-mongering 'hot chicks doin it', they shouldn't have cut it. just what i think.

The bumpkiniest of the Bumpkin Army.

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Wednesday, December 11, 2002 5:57 PM

TWIRLIP

Quote:
Originally posted by ELKA:
if the cut scene was that important then, or at least balanced it as not ratings-mongering 'hot chicks doin it', they shouldn't have cut it.

I think the episode ran long, and it was either cut that or something else. Since it doesn't really advance the plot at all, I think it was a good decision. Not that I wouldn't rather have it back in, but if something had to go, I think they picked the right thing.

But I agree that the lesbianism seems out of place with the rest of the episode. Myself, I would rather have seen Inara kick some ass. Yeah, I know, that's absurdly out of character for her. But not for the Inara in my brain... mmm...

I'll be in my bunk.

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Thursday, December 12, 2002 3:30 AM

IDEFIX

Quote:
Originally posted by Mana:
Though, still, when you see someone like John Crichton being tortured on Farscape, where his eyeballs roll back, and nostril flairs with mucus, vomit, and the likes flying all over the place, one really appreciates how good Farscape is.

What was the name of that episode?

it was at the end of season 1. either "Nerve" or "The Hidden Memory" or "Family Ties" but I'm not sure. the last EPs of season 1 were like a multipart EP but they had individual names. I mix them up all the time. there was one single EP mixed into them "Bone To Be Wild". but the rest of the 'final four' were all linked.

and it was done really nice. you just understood why Stark seemed someplace out of order after going to the chair over and over again. so his "My side - your side" routine and similar things are his way of dealing with it. and even if you come to know and even like Scorpius in the following seasons you always know what he's capable of.

Farscape is the only sci fi show in my opinion that is comparable to Firefly. I now know three and a half seasons of Farscape and only 10 EPs of Firefly so I can't really judge which one is better. but they are comparable. they show things as they are and they are kind of anarchistic. no military structure there. no rose coloured glasses like Star Trek, no 'heroes' saving the universe once per EP like Babylon 5, Andromeda, Star Trek.

and I don't want to argue about the quality of those series. they are all good in their own way but they have other assumptions. having a lot of heroes saving the day against terrible odds does make for a nice story. lots of people like that kind of story, otherwise Tolkien wouldn't have that many fans. but I personally prefer the stories about 'normal' people. Crichton said it once to a girl hwo he 'saved' from being shot by Aeryn or bitten by Rygel or something ("PK Tech Girl" season 1). when she thanked him for it he answered: "I try to save a life a day, usually it's my own." and that's what I want to say. Crichton and co try to survive another day in a universe that has it's problems. and it seems Mal and co do exactly the same in their universe. I can't tell you why I like that more, maybe because I can identify better with them and it seems more realistic to me. less 'heroic', less like 'superman'.

and Crichtons dad said it in the very first EP "You wait and your time will come. Everyone gets to be his own kind of hero." John Crichton is a hero but he never went out to be one, he just wanted to invent a new form of spacetravel for earth (the slingshot maneuver) and then he fought to stay alive and keep his new found friends save. so destroying the Scarran Dreadnought and blowing up Scorpys Command Carrier and in the first season blowing up Scorpys Gammac Base wasn't his plan to start with, he just did what was right when he had the opportunity to do it.

seems very much like Firefly to me. none of them went out to be a hero, they just try to stay alive and they do the right thing at the right time because they are all their own kind of hero.
except Jayne maybe but you'll never be too sure of that either. even Rygel is a hero now and then.

I love shows about people and their 'relationships' romantic ones and especially all the others. and I think I like the not so heroic characters most. people like Wash seem to be pretty much like you and me. not the bigger than life heroes like a John Sheridan or an Aragorn. I loved it, when Kaylee couldn't shoot those bad guys in War Stories, because there are lots of people in front of the TV who couldn't shoot them too. and so they can relate to that.

I think I would try to shoot them, I wouln't be much or a sharpshooter because I never even saw a gun in real life before. we don't have them lying around home here in germany, you have to have a licence to buy one and then it has to be kept in a locker or something, I don't know anyone who has a gun. but I sure as hell would have lost it with the torture. I would have given up like Wash would have, it it wasn't for Mal to keep him alive.

the very first thing in Firefly that caught my attention was when Mal started the bar fight in Train Job. he dared the bad guy to call him coward or something to his face and when the guy did and asked him what he intends to do now he answers: "Nothing really, I just wanted you to turn my way so she can come up your back." prompting Zoe to beat the guy from behind.
that's my kind of hero, not the one who single handedly defeats 10 guys with impossible fighting skills and is all self-conscious about it. does work for androids or some such but it seldom pays out in the long run. gets boring to watch all this - I call them - "Tom and Jerry Fights" because they are as believable and real as a "Tom and Jerry" cartoon, people getting overrun by cars and walking on all flat and so forth. you know what I mean, don't you?

...and "I do tend to babble". (quote from Data - TNG)

Idefix

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Thursday, December 12, 2002 4:58 AM

FUCHSIA

I thought you made some really interesting points here about what ordinary people can relate to in a character, but I don't agree that stories are either about heroes or about ordinary people. The appeal of many (you could even argue 'most') heroic stories is that their heroes never asked to be heroes. You mention Tolkein; well, I would contend that the real hero of LOTR isn't Aragorn, or Gandalf, but Sam Gamgee. He's the guy who motivates Frodo all the way to Mount Doom. He's the guy who never gives up trying, when all he really wants is to be a home in the Shire pottering about in his garden.

In 'War Stories', the hero is Wash. He's never been in combat before, never been tortured. We all agree that he would have caved in long before, had Mal not been keeping him going. And what does he do as soon as he's rescued? Stand up and declare he's going back in there, at risk of death, and more torture, to rescue Mal, when all he signed up to do is fly the ship. I think Simon is also a hero in this episode, even though he didn't shoot anybody.

I do agree with you that Star Trek is very different from this, though; being a hero is exactly what the Trek characters signed up for.

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Thursday, December 12, 2002 5:13 AM

IDEFIX

sure. it's all a matter of degree.
Tolkien I mentioned more for the "impossible odds" and "saving the universe" (or middle earth). and Star Trek characters don't sign up for being heros but most of them sign up for being part or star fleet. and they usually don't show the lower ranking crew members. the 'ordinary' people. they show the very best of star fleet and I think they are out to be heroes, or explorers, diplomats, fighters. they don't fly around on the Enterprise (which one ever) just to live their lives. maybe that's why Voyager, the so called worst of the Star Treks, is my favorite. they kind of get a life they didn't sign up for and that makes for some nice stories. and with the former Marquis they have some interesting characters on board. I'm a big B'Elanna fan. I think "Day of Honor" is my favourite Vayager EP. "Welcome to the worst day of my life." just after she had to eject the warp core.
and don't think I don't like all of the mentioned series. I don't watch what I don't like and I watched them all.

...and Sam is definitely the hero of Lord of the Rings.

Idefix

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Thursday, December 12, 2002 5:24 AM

FUCHSIA

Well, it seems we're in complete agreement, even to the point of Voyager being my favourite Trek series and B'Elanna my favourite character

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Thursday, December 12, 2002 5:32 AM

IDEFIX

that's nice.
maybe that's because my family name is part of your nick name. we should meet some day and find out what else we have in common.
but you're probably a long way from southern germany now, so we have to postpone that.

Idefix

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Thursday, December 12, 2002 8:00 AM

FLAMBE

Quote:
Originally posted by FireflyClassAct:
...and now I won't be watching the show again.

The scenes of torture and that guy taking a knife to the Captain's ear was really over the line.

I watch shows to be entertained. Watching helpless people being tortured and cut on is not entertainment to me.

Really a shame that Firefly had to get that far down in the gutter.

Well, FOX did run a "due to violent content" screener before the episode ran. Did you choose to ignore that and watch anyway?

-F

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Thursday, December 12, 2002 12:50 PM

TINYTIMM

Quote:
Fuchsia wrote:
I would contend that the real hero of LOTR isn't Aragorn, or Gandalf, but Sam Gamgee.
In 'War Stories', the hero is Wash. ... And what does he do as soon as he's rescued? Stand up and declare he's going back in there, at risk of death, and more torture, to rescue Mal,

Concur with both opinions. Remember, according to "Our Boardinghouse" (and if you remember that you are old) "Heroes aren't born, they're cornered." The heroes are the ones who don't break and don't run. They just keep pounding until they win.

Jeff
Who was taught dying bravely was a blot on one's record. Professionals get paid to win.

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Thursday, December 12, 2002 5:08 PM

SENSOU

"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Naturally, they became heroes." -Princess Leia

Sensou
We'll have to go out through the kitchen!

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