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Originally posted by Succatash:

You guys act so righteous. We all plan to give Joss lots and lots of money. I know I do.

But let's be realistic. If someone posted a legitimate link to a 900 MB screener DVD rip, 3 months before the release date-- WOULDN'T YOU CLICK THE LINK? Damn. How tempting is that?

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Originally posted by JohnQPublic:
Where did you get the idea that the film was finished?

They're done shooting, but it now needs to be edited, have special effects done, music recorded and plenty more. The finished film won't be completed for months.

The actual filming is just a small part of a movie, especially a science fiction movie with special effects and cgi.

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You BLASPHEMER! INFIDEL!! This isn't an ordinary movie! To search for, nay, to even WANT a pirated, illegal copy of Serenity BEFORE IT EVEN COMES OUT is prepostorous! Are you crazy or just stupid?! This is the BIG DAMN MOVIE!!! To want an illegal copy like that is disrespectful!

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Originally posted by piratejenny:
well I would take a bootleg pirated copy if I could get my hands on one..and I don't see anything disrespectful or wrong for doing so....

I don't care how big the movie is...

its just the nature of the way things are...nothing wrong with it!!

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Originally posted by serenityfan2004:
I have not replied to this, i am not a trool i acctaulyl wanted the link but reading all ur comments and crap makes me relize how dumb i am to ask and i now agree with you, and i did replie but on my other account which i made cause of the contraversy i caused, and if serenity makes good money maybe they'll just bring back firefly, sry for being a moron i now understand all your opioions. But i ahve one thing to say i know half of u wouldnt click a link if u saw it but i know you would be tempted!

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Originally posted by kingofkoins:

Please. I am hardly a troll because of one word that I said out of anger.

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Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Count me in the half that would not click the link. I may be tempted (I would be less than honest if I said I would not be), but I would not do anything to harm the chances of the movie being a success.

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Originally posted by TheGreyJedi:
Tash, see, I share my bandwidth. I share my music and video files(mostly anime fansubs). I have and share pirated software. But Serenity is far, far too important to sully with those activities. I will see it at the Big Damn Premiere for the first time. I will see it at least a dozen times in theatres those first two weeks. I will not download a copy of it ever. And I look down on anyone who thinks it's a good idea.

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Originally posted by piratejenny:

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You BLASPHEMER! INFIDEL!! This isn't an ordinary movie! To search for, nay, to even WANT a pirated, illegal copy of Serenity BEFORE IT EVEN COMES OUT is prepostorous! Are you crazy or just stupid?! This is the BIG DAMN MOVIE!!! To want an illegal copy like that is disrespectful!

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well I would take a bootleg pirated copy if I could get my hands on one..and I don't see anything disrespectful or wrong for doing so....

I don't care how big the movie is...

its just the nature of the way things are...nothing wrong with it!!

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Originally posted by Succatash:

You guys act so righteous. We all plan to give Joss lots and lots of money. I know I do.

But let's be realistic. If someone posted a legitimate link to a 900 MB screener DVD rip, 3 months before the release date-- WOULDN'T YOU CLICK THE LINK? Damn. How tempting is that?

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Originally posted by glico:
Allright, you all seem to be missing something about information piracy, so i'll explain. Downloading a movie is not at all analgous to picking Jewel's purse. It is more analgous to overhearing a conversation, then repeating it. It's someone else's, but it's not hurting them directly when you take it. We're talking about the loss of something, vs the loss of a POTENTIAL sale of something. There's a big difference.

Bye now.

-------------------------
Remember kids, stupidity is for losers!

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Originally posted by ShanYu:
Ok heres the thing i know it dont make sense coming from me but piracy is WRONG unless you plan to go see the movie in theaters as many times as you would if u hadent seen it. so if you download a movie then dont see it in theaters it is wrong, truthfully it is wrong to dowbload it period but its just so tempting and very few can withstand that temtation especcially with a movie like this. My opion is if you at one point download a movie see it in teateres an extra time to make up for it, and i truthfully now do not want to see serenity before it comes into theaters beacse of this thread and reading all the comments it made me relize doing so would be wrong.

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Originally posted by Clandestiny:

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Originally posted by glico:
Allright, you all seem to be missing something about information piracy, so i'll explain. Downloading a movie is not at all analgous to picking Jewel's purse. It is more analgous to overhearing a conversation, then repeating it. It's someone else's, but it's not hurting them directly when you take it. We're talking about the loss of something, vs the loss of a POTENTIAL sale of something. There's a big difference.

Bye now.

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Remember kids, stupidity is for losers!

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I'd say your analogy is seriously flawed. Overheard conversations do not have access fees attached to them, and no one expects them to.

A much closer, and more accurate, analogy would be this: It's as if, rather than paying a ticket to hear a lecture by an author, I snuck in the back way, listened to the speech for free, and made a tape recording which I then took home with me.

By pointing this out, I am not saying whether not I am on the side of the pirates; that's a debate I choose not to get into. I merely suggest that if you're going to use an analogy, you should use one that holds up to logical analysis -- as yours does not.

-----------------------------
"Take my love, take my land, take my wife -- please." -- Henny Youngman performs the Firefly Theme.

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Originally posted by glico:

Fine, but -- ideas are fundamentally different from things. One cannot "steal" an idea, stealing requires removing something from someone else's possesion. In a society where everyone was ethically perfect, people would download the movie, then based on that decide whether to give money, and if so how much. I think this is a model worth working towards. I'll leave it at that for now.

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Originally posted by Winterfell:
...the very existance of an illegal copy availible on the internet would allow people (maybe few, maybe many, whatever.. at least 1 fricken person) to download it and lose the desire to see it in the theater. That was 1 ticket sale we lost. Honestly.. we can't afford that. every gorram ticket sale counts.

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Originally posted by Succatash:
But let's be realistic. If someone posted a legitimate link to a 900 MB screener DVD rip, 3 months before the release date-- WOULDN'T YOU CLICK THE LINK? Damn. How tempting is that?

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Originally posted by Winterfell:

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Originally posted by ShanYu:
Ok heres the thing i know it dont make sense coming from me but piracy is WRONG unless you plan to go see the movie in theaters as many times as you would if u hadent seen it. so if you download a movie then dont see it in theaters it is wrong, truthfully it is wrong to dowbload it period but its just so tempting and very few can withstand that temtation especcially with a movie like this. My opion is if you at one point download a movie see it in teateres an extra time to make up for it, and i truthfully now do not want to see serenity before it comes into theaters beacse of this thread and reading all the comments it made me relize doing so would be wrong.

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I whole-heartedly disagree with your point of view. Lets put away the fact that you are STEALING the film before it's intended release date for a moment and focus on some of the finer points.

you decide, i'll download it, watch it, love it, and go see it in the theater. maybe I'll let my friend watch it once too. Nothing wrong with that right? WRONG. why? the very existance of an illegal copy availible on the internet would allow people (maybe few, maybe many, whatever.. at least 1 fricken person) to download it and lose the desire to see it in the theater. That was 1 ticket sale we lost. Honestly.. we can't afford that. every gorram ticket sale counts. listen to joss at the cons, you know the movie happened because of the dvd sales.. not the dvd downloads.

I want a gorram sequal.

if your little impatient asses can't handle that, and want to ruin my chances of having my gorram sequal, then cào nî zûxiān shí bâ dai

seriously.

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Originally posted by Succatash:

Sometimes, you just need to ask yourself:

"What would Jayne do?"

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wow, can't say i have any respect for you as a human. but i doubt you'll lose any sleep for it. I hope you do end up meeting joss and crew someday. please let them know how you feel to thier faces. But I guess if you are the kind of person who can say what you just did, you probably don't care much about the show, the movie, or any of this at all. nature my ass.

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Ok heres the thing i know it dont make sense coming from me but piracy is WRONG unless you plan to go see the movie in theaters as many times as you would if u hadent seen it. so if you download a movie then dont see it in theaters it is wrong, truthfully it is wrong

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Sometimes, you just need to ask yourself:

"What would Jayne do?"

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Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
I've been trying to think of a scenario where I could justify watching a bootlegged copy of the BDM, and for me, personally, I just couldn't click that link. But that's because I live in the US where we know the release date. The decision would be much harder if I lived in a country that might not get Serenity until the end of summer - well after Serenity's success was established (at least for the domestic US run).

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Originally posted by piratejenny:

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wow, can't say i have any respect for you as a human. but i doubt you'll lose any sleep for it. I hope you do end up meeting joss and crew someday. please let them know how you feel to thier faces. But I guess if you are the kind of person who can say what you just did, you probably don't care much about the show, the movie, or any of this at all. nature my ass.

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If I was lucky enough to get a bootleg..it doesn't mean I wouldn't go out and pay and see the movie because I would..I like the movie experience.. and if I happened to see Joss and co to their faces I would still feel the same way..if I can get something for free I'm going too.. bottom line...and that is the nature of the way things are..thats reality..and your right I wouldn't lose any sleep over it not one bit

I'm just being honest

its not really any diffrent from downloading music off the net for free..and how many of us do that..I know I do!!

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I want your car. I want the experience of driving your car. If I can get your car for free, I am going to. That is the nature of the way things are. This is your reality and your honesty.

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Originally posted by piratejenny:

Quote:


wow, can't say i have any respect for you as a human. but i doubt you'll lose any sleep for it. I hope you do end up meeting joss and crew someday. please let them know how you feel to thier faces. But I guess if you are the kind of person who can say what you just did, you probably don't care much about the show, the movie, or any of this at all. nature my ass.
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If I was lucky enough to get a bootleg..it doesn't mean I wouldn't go out and pay and see the movie because I would..I like the movie experience.. and if I happened to see Joss and co to their faces I would still feel the same way..if I can get something for free I'm going too.. bottom line...and that is the nature of the way things are..thats reality..and your right I wouldn't lose any sleep over it not one bit

I'm just being honest

its not really any diffrent from downloading music off the net for free..and how many of us do that..I know I do!!


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I want your car. I want the experience of driving your car. If I can get your car for free, I am going to. That is the nature of the way things are. That is your reality and your honesty.
Sleep well.



'well here I am'

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Originally posted by glico:

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I want your car. I want the experience of driving your car. If I can get your car for free, I am going to. That is the nature of the way things are. This is your reality and your honesty.

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You are equating physical things to ideas. I tell you this is not true, but you don't listen or respond. You get someone not to do something by turning the risk/benefit proportions to high risk of getting caught for the thief, compared to relatively low benefit. Locks, alarm systems, cameras, courts and so on do this for cars. Information piracy has no equivalant. Therefore, high benefit zero risk, people will do the action, download the film. We are entering a time when artists much work based on the generosity of their audience. You may not like it but it is the truth.

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Originally posted by tribes:
steal·ing
1 : to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as an habitual or regular practice

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Originally posted by tribes:
Ditto

Glico quote
"The key word is take, take means removing something from someone's possession and putting it in yours."


Main Entry: thief
Pronunciation: 'thEf
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural thieves /'thEvz/
Etymology: Middle English theef, from Old English thEof; akin to Old High German diob thief
: one that steals especially stealthily or secretly; also : one who commits theft or larceny

stealing
transitive senses
1 a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully b : to take away by force or unjust means c : to take surreptitiously or without permission d : to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make oneself the focus of

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Originally posted by Sheppard:
Does anyone really know the ramifications of such piracy? I don't know, I'm really just curious.

Probably like most of you, I've heard plenty of tales of woe about how downloading movies or music hurts everyone involved in the creation. Are cast and crew really paid less because the company fears potential piracy? Where are the statistics? What are the percentages? How much money out of every ticket sold in a theater goes to Universal? I'm guessing that the cast and crew have already been paid, so any other potential profit they would see would be "icing on the cake," as they say. How much money would a movie with a $50Million budget have to make to be "successful"? Do they need to make back their original expenditure plus a certain estimated percentage based on some forecast? I can only guess that they need to get their money back at very least. And if that's the case, that's an awful lot of money. How many people would there have to be who download the movie and decide upon that not to go to the theater to make a dent in the realized profits? If 10,000 people downloaded the movie and didn't see it in the theaters, would that mean that Universal would only make $101.3M instead of $101.5M?

Again, I just don't know. I'm not judging the rightness or wrongness of it, I'm just posing these qustions. I think it would be helpful to have this information - based on actual numbers, or even close estimates, so long as they are factual - before judging how downloading this movie (or anything else) would adversely affect Serenity, Joss, etc. Without any solid information, everything's just speculation based on spin from the creators of that which is being downloaded.

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Originally posted by Winterfell:
[That is not what we are talking about at all. You seem to be creating your own reality where you get to state what is product (a car) and what is free information (art/movies)...

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Originally posted by horsenbuggy:
I do photography on the side. I sell my work in tourist gift shops. I also occassionally put digital copies of my work out on the net for viewing purposes only. Each time I place a copy of one of my photos on the 'net, I put a big ol' watermark on the image so that people can't download it and print it for themselves. Why shouldn't they be able to do this?

BECAUSE IT IS STEALING. I OWN the copyright to every image I create as soon as I open and close the shutter. My photos belong to me. No one else has the right to print them, hang them, download them, etc. unless they acquired the images from ME.

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Originally posted by tribes:

Piratejenny quote
"I wouldn't compare stealing someone's car to Pirating a movie off the net..its just not the same thing..there are degrees to everything"

steal·ing
Etymology: Middle English stelen, from Old English stelan; akin to Old High German stelan to steal
intransitive senses
1 : to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as an habitual or regular practice
2 : to come or go secretly, unobtrusively, gradually, or unexpectedly
3 : to steal or attempt to steal a base
transitive senses
1 a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of
wrongfully b : to take away by force or unjust means c : to take surreptitiously or without permission d : to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make oneself the focus of
2 a : to move, convey, or introduce secretly : SMUGGLE b : to accomplish in a concealed or unobserved manner
3 a : to seize, gain, or win by trickery, skill, or daring b of a base runner : to reach (a base) safely solely by running and usually catching the opposing team off guard
- steal·able /'stE-l&-b&l/ adjective
- steal·er noun
- steal a march on : to gain an advantage on unobserved
- steal one's thunder : to grab attention from another especially by anticipating an idea, plan, or presentation also : to claim credit for another's idea
synonyms STEAL, PILFER, FILCH, PURLOIN mean to take from another without right or without detection. STEAL may apply to any surreptitious taking of something and differs from the other terms by commonly applying to intangibles as well as material things . PILFER implies stealing repeatedly in small amounts . FILCH adds a suggestion of snatching quickly and surreptitiously . PURLOIN stresses removing or carrying off for one's own use or purposes .

Main Entry: 2pirate
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): pi·rat·ed; pi·rat·ing
transitive senses
1 : to commit piracy on
2 : to take or appropriate by piracy : as a : to reproduce without authorization especially in infringement of copyright b : to lure away from another employer by offers of betterment
intransitive senses : to commit or practice piracy



'well here I am'

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