Are Firefly Ratings Good Enough For UPN? by Haken

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Are Firefly Ratings Good Enough For UPN?

POSTED BY: HAKEN
UPDATED: Saturday, December 14, 2002 06:05
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Friday, December 13, 2002 2:38 AM

Likes to mess with stuffs.

While Firefly's ratings might not be good enough for FOX, are they good enough for a smaller network like UPN? Considering that Firefly's ratings did beat UPN's Enterprise a few times.

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Friday, December 13, 2002 2:56 AM

OUTLANDER

I believe that Firefly's ratings are comparable to Buffy and Enterprise. It would make sense for UPN to pickup Firefly because Enterprise is struggling and might not last much longer and Buffy might be finishing soon as well. Firefly would be the perfect show to fill this void. Though I think it is up to Joss to sell the Idea to UPN.

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Friday, December 13, 2002 3:06 AM

RED

I do believe we had recently heard that WB was crowing over having achieved a 2.0 average while UPN's average ratings have dipped for the year. If that is indeed the case than I would guess that Firefly's ratings would be more than strong enough for UPN. I think it may really be a matter of can UPN afford it. UPN is/will be undergoing some restructuring ... that is not necassarily good or bad news. If there is good news it is that UPN's parent company, Viacom, has expressed interest in the sci-fi genre - by either starting their own sci-fi network, or possibly picking up Skiffy (Sci-Fi Channel) from Vivendi.

How would it be possible if salvation were ready to our hand, and could without great labor be found, that it should be by almost all men neglected? But all things excellent are as difficult as they are rare.
—Spinoza

www.savefarscape.com

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Friday, December 13, 2002 4:09 AM

GATORMARC

What does the WB have to replace Birds of Prey?

I don't care if this show is on Telemundo and I have to watch it in subtitles, this is the best new show on the air this season, and deserves a chance to flourish.

GatorMarc

Eat 'em up, chomp, chomp.

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Friday, December 13, 2002 5:25 AM

MERLINDREA

Has that ever actually happened? I mean that another network picked up a cancelled show? Anybody knows?

Merl

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Friday, December 13, 2002 5:43 AM

KAYLEE

Yes. UPN picked up Roswell, and the WB did it once, I can't remember (PJ's?)from Fox. Anyway since it costs less than Buffy to make, we might as well try!

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Friday, December 13, 2002 5:49 AM

MERLINDREA

Kaylee, Thanks! You give me hope!

Merl

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Friday, December 13, 2002 5:51 AM

JERRY

I don't recall a show cancelled in mid-season making a jump.

As far as Firefly's ratings go, if the show could pull the same numbers on UPN that it was getting on Fox, that would be good enough. I don't know if it could, though.

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Friday, December 13, 2002 5:57 AM

RADEGUND

Quote:
Originally posted by merlindrea:
Has that ever actually happened? I mean that another network picked up a cancelled show?

Didn't JAG start out on another network?

Radegund

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Friday, December 13, 2002 6:04 AM

FRANKIGAL

Quote:

Didn't JAG start out on another network?

Radegund

Yes it began on NBC. Don't remember if it lasted a full season there.

Does anyone know if UPN has shown any interest in picking up Firefly?

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Friday, December 13, 2002 6:12 AM

RED

And actually it's kinda funny (or not so much) - Fox originally ordered the sitcom Two Guys, a Girl and a Pizza Place but after they aired the premier they decided they didn't want it and another net picked it up ... ABC I think? Then they shortened the name and added Nathan Fillion. Not too awful.

And one of the most famous *shiver* - CBS was the original home of Baywatch.

_____
How would it be possible if salvation were ready to our hand, and could without great labor be found, that it should be by almost all men neglected? But all things excellent are as difficult as they are rare.
—Spinoza

www.savefarscape.com

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Friday, December 13, 2002 6:17 AM

HJERMSTED

Firefly is drawing higher numbers than Buffy and Angel. However Fox has higher budget shows and therefore has higher audience expectations.

WB is replacing Birds of Prey with the far superior show, Angel.

Getting Firefly on to another network is plan B. Plan A is convincing Fox to keep it and let it grow into the next X-Files phenom. And plan A is still in effect!

Keep flying!

Mattro

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Friday, December 13, 2002 6:23 AM

HJERMSTED

Just received the bad news...

On to Plan B!

mattro

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Friday, December 13, 2002 6:26 AM

KAYLEE

UPN is really not such a safe bet than one might assume as it has ALOT of new show's scheduled next season, and the WB are still slightly perturped at Whedon, and there is only one way I could see UPN picking this up, is if Buffy ends this season.

:(

On the plus side, Firefly costs LESS to make than Buffy and Angel, UPN has only ordered Pilots and have not actually ordered the Season, Firefly has better ratings than most UPN shows, and they are desperate....and I mean desperate for these kinda shows, serious dramas.

UPN is a 50/50 bet, but i could really see Firefly getting picked up by them.

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Friday, December 13, 2002 6:31 AM

JERRY

I would think UPN might have interest, as they have a gaping hole in their schedule after BtVS. Firefly is a bit different and doesn't have the exact same audience (I'm sure UPN would rather pick up "Angel") but if BtVS is returning next season in some form or other, I would think it would be a decent fit as a companion show. Or as a companion show for Enterprise, if "Angel" is no longer airing in that timeslot on the WB.

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Friday, December 13, 2002 7:24 AM

SKOONEN

A number of shows have jumped to other networks

Grounded For Life was cancelled from fox, they are airing the rest of their episodes, then its going to the WB

back in the day 21 jumpstreet started on fox then went into syndication

Jag was nbc, now cbs

Baywatch was NBC (im almost postitive!)

Home Improvement was supposed to be on CBS IIRC, but they opted not to take it and ABC cashed in huge

Rosswell from wb -> upn

umm.. i know theres others i just cant think of them off the top of my head.

At this point I dont care which network picks up the show, as long as it gets picked up or put into syndication. I mean christ, of Mutant X & Andromeda can get syndication w/ their lame plots & FX then why cant a good show like firefly?! I mean hell, Firefly uses less special FX than either of those shows, but you dont even mind or notice because its so good.

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Friday, December 13, 2002 7:41 AM

THEFUTONCRITIC

Quote:
While Firefly's ratings might not be good enough for FOX, are they good enough for a smaller network like UPN? Considering that Firefly's ratings did beat UPN's Enterprise a few times.

It's actually not as cut and dry as that. FOX is available to far more homes than UPN is and hence will likely have more viewers. Here's a list of what percentage of households in the U.S. get each network as a primary affiliate (that is they follow the national schedule). Secondary affiliates (those that air UPN/WB at odd hours) are not included:

NBC: 103,624,370 households (97.17%)
CBS: 103,421,270 households (96.98%)
ABC: 103,179,600 households (96.75%)
FOX: 102,565,710 households (96.18%)
UPN: 91,689,290 households (85.98%)
WB: 90,282,480 households (84.66%)
PAX: 79,185,730 households (74.25%)

Hope that helps.

Brian Ford Sullivan
Editor-In-Chief
The Futon Critic
http://www.thefutoncritic.com

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Friday, December 13, 2002 8:44 AM

KAYLEETAM

UPN "shares" air space with CBS where I am, so it ends up playing shows like Buffy at 4 pm on Wednesday instead of 8 pm on Tuesday.

I hope they (or whatever other station wants to pick it up) see a good thing and do it justice. It's JOSS afterall--his track record of hits alone should persuade -someone.- Any nibbles from the sci-fi channel?? It might find a nice home port there.

~~ Kaylee Frye Tam

~~ Just a little mechanic girl from Zeta, Quadrant 4 ~

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Friday, December 13, 2002 8:54 AM

JERRY

Since Sci-Fi saw fit to axe it's own flagship show Farscape, I doubt they'd be looking to add a more-expensive replacement.

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Friday, December 13, 2002 9:10 AM

GATORMARC

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
WB is replacing Bird of Prey with the far superior show, Angel.

Mattro

Then what are they putting in Angel's old slot if they are moving Angel to Wednesday nights?

GatorMarc

Eat 'em up, chomp, chomp.

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Friday, December 13, 2002 10:00 AM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.

Quote:
Originally posted by GatorMarc:
Then what are they putting in Angel's old slot if they are moving Angel to Wednesday nights?

They're replacing it with another TRP (the same guys who brought us "Smallville," "Bird of Prey") series titled "Black Sash" starring Russell Wong of "Vanishing Son" fame.

Quote:
Russell Wong stars as Tom Ballard, an ex-cop who has been unjustly imprisoned for seven years and has lost his career, his wife and the right to see his daughter. Forced to turn to bounty hunting to fund the costly legal battle for his daughter, Ballard finds a new family in the young men and women he trains in the Chinese martial art of Ba Gua. He relies on the spiritual guidance of his longtime mentor to balance the two demanding sides of his double life.

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Friday, December 13, 2002 10:12 AM

HJERMSTED

I have a strange feeling that UPN won't want to pick up another show about a space ship and its crew... especially one that effortlessly exposes the obvious flaws of its own 'similar' property (Enterprise).

Firefly would easily upstage Enterprise, UPN's flagship show.

But who knows? I can't predict these things anymore. I honestly (naively?) thought Fox would let Firefly grow on its network like an X-Files or something. They sure showed me.

mattro

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Friday, December 13, 2002 10:44 AM

INVISIBLEGREEN

When "Roswell" was cancelled by the WB, the only place left for it to go was UPN. So after a large letter-writing campaign by the fans, UPN decided to pick up the show, because they noticed how devoted the fans were. I think we should definitely try this technique with "Firefly" and see where it takes us.

If UPN does pick it up, I can see "MAD TV" and "SNL" calling UPN "The Space Network," but really "Enterprise" and "Firefly" are such different shows that I don't think they'd say "Well, we already have a space show." If "Angel" wasn't moving to Wed. @ 9, I'd say put "Firefly" there and move "The Twilight Zone" to Tuesdays.

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Friday, December 13, 2002 11:09 AM

KAYLEE

Joss has one other advantage at UPN. Buffy! The show is ending this season (almost confirmed) and UPN are chomping at the bit that they will make them a Spinoff. Hmmmm.

Blackmail is such an ugly word (but appropriate at this time)

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Friday, December 13, 2002 1:26 PM

INVISIBLEGREEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Kaylee:
Joss has one other advantage at UPN. Buffy! The show is ending this season (almost confirmed) and UPN are chomping at the bit that they will make them a Spinoff.

Actually, it's looking more and more likely that there will be another season of BtVS. Pretty much it's up to SMG, who hasn't made up her mind yet, and probably won't till may.

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Friday, December 13, 2002 3:31 PM

BOBKNAPTOR

They are offereing her an awful lot of money... maybe she'll agree to another season or two...

http://www.teentelevision.com/d.asp?r=24910&cat=1028

______________
Dawn: So, what do we do?
Buffy: Easy. We burn the house to the ground, collect the insurance. Plus, fire? Pretty.

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Friday, December 13, 2002 6:40 PM

VOIDPRIME

Actually I have an idea. UPN should pick up the three episodes FOX probably won't air and order 3-4 more. Then UPN could air those 6-7 episodes while Buffy is in repeats during march and the first part of April. Just a thought. off to write Firefly column for ENTERLINE

Be Seeing You,
David Blackwell

ENTERLINE: http://enterline2.tripod.com/enterline

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Friday, December 13, 2002 6:46 PM

SNOWSPINNER

Sadly, Whedon's track record is more than questionable. He's primarily a writer on trashy movies, who has three TV series, none of which have ever broken out of niche and genre audiences.

He's brilliant, and his shows are great for secondary networks like UPN or WB. But the fact of the matter is, in strict economics, his track record just isn't that amazing.

UPN might take Firefly... but, when last I checked, the ratings were falling on Buffy, and Firefly doesn't have nearly the same built in audience...

I still say its best bet is a premium channel like HBO. Yeah, a lot fewer people will get it (Myself included), but it'll come out with reasonable speed on DVD, and it's at least a home for the show. And HBO is a damn good place for a show to generate a lot of critical buzz, which Firefly is more than capable of.

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Friday, December 13, 2002 6:54 PM

HOTFORKAYLEE

Quote:
Originally posted by Snowspinner:

I still say its best bet is a premium channel like HBO. Yeah, a lot fewer people will get it (Myself included), but it'll come out with reasonable speed on DVD, and it's at least a home for the show. And HBO is a damn good place for a show to generate a lot of critical buzz, which Firefly is more than capable of.

Hmmm, Wow, Think about an uncensored Firefly?

Quote:
"Good luck, Captain. I think you are about to go where everyone has gone before."

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Friday, December 13, 2002 6:59 PM

YEAHITSME

Quote:
Originally posted by Snowspinner:

UPN might take Firefly... but, when last I checked, the ratings were falling on Buffy, and Firefly doesn't have nearly the same built in audience...

Actualy what Firefly had regulary during the 2-3weeks the rating were at 2.9 it was only 100 000 viewer behind Buffy....I'm sure that the show has the potential to do at least as great as Smackdown was doing in the begining with time and advertisement

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Friday, December 13, 2002 7:56 PM

MILLERNATE

Quote:

Sadly, Whedon's track record is more than questionable. He's primarily a writer on trashy movies, who has three TV series, none of which have ever broken out of niche and genre audiences.

Somewhat inaccurate, especially in the movie department. Let's take a look at the movies shall we?

Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1992)

Admittedly this does qualify as it was a low budget, badly cast, and badly directed camp fest. On the other hand that's about par for the course for someone with Joss's experience level at that point (even the great Robert Towne's first screenplay was for the Roger "camp master" Corman movie Last Woman on Earth).

Toy Story (1995)

Joss got an Oscar nomination for being one of the 4 writers with screenplay credit (along with an additional 2 who only got "story" credit...who says good things don't come out of committees

). WHile its impossible to say who wrote what when you have this many an Oscar nomination is a feather in your cap regardless.

Alien: Resurrection (1997)
Admittedly this one wasn't great, but given the handicaps they had from the previous film (which was also pretty bad) this one was actually pretty okay (though whoever did the production design for the "new hybrid Alien" at the end needs to get smacked). imdb.com rates it as a 6.0 and it did make over $100 million world wide.

Titan A.E. (2000)
imdb.com rates this as a 6.5. Which isn't too shabby considering that John (Charlie's Angels) August is listed as one of the screenwriters. Not bad considering...

This isn't even counting all the "uncredited script doctor" work that Whedon's gotten (including, apparently, on Speed). I sort of think Whedon is starting to get viewed as the TV version of Robert Altman, someone who has his trademarks and die hard fans (and who usually produces the series relatively economically given its subject matter...). My main beef is with him being characterized as a writer of trashy movies as the man has an Oscar nomination and a certain amount of respect as a script doctor.

edited to add:
Also, about Buffy's falling ratings? UPN's ratings are down across the board (Enterprise is down, Smackdown is down, and those are all three of UPN's top 3) so this doesn't really reflect on Buffy at all.

Nathan
"It looks like a great adventure...That's what it is; that's what it feels like. When I saw the pilot, it was really engaging. It was exciting. It was unusual. It threw me off every now and then. I think people will be grabbed by it." - Ron Glass, on the pilot, during an interview with the Indianapolis Star

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Saturday, December 14, 2002 1:08 AM

KAYLEE

About Buffy's falling ratings. It ain't Buffy's fault as UPN has lost a few affiliates, and Buffy is still UPN's Golden show

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Saturday, December 14, 2002 2:44 AM

KIBARIKA

Just here to reiterate a few things that have already been said.

1. At some points in the season, Firefly has had higher ratings than Buffy. We can presume that part of this is because there is a loyal group of fans, primarily in the male 18-49 demographic, who watch every week. If UPN advertised Firefly more than Fox did, it would be likely to do VERY well.

2. UPN is in LOVE with Joss Whedon.

3. Right now, UPN is our best bet because they have a record of picking up shows from other networks as well as an established relationship with Mutant Enemy. That's not to say UPN is the ONLY network they can market the show to - they're just the one that Mutant Enemy is trying first.

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Saturday, December 14, 2002 6:05 AM

SNOWSPINNER

The thing is, UPN paid what they did for Buffy thinking they could use it to anchor a strong night, if not a strong network. And they failed miserably. They take a loss on the episodes of Buffy they buy, in the hopes that they can use it to make money on other, cheaper shows.

Unfortunately, that's not working.

Unless Firefly becomes one of those cheaper shows, and they anchored Tuesday night with it... but then I'd have to choose between it and 24, and that would sadden me deeply. =/

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