Has F*X learned its lesson? by gojiro

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Has F*X learned its lesson?

POSTED BY: GOJIRO
UPDATED: Friday, October 8, 2004 11:49
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 6445
PAGE 1 of 1

Friday, October 1, 2004 5:25 AM

I just saw this in a IMDB.com blurb about CBS:

Quote:
Fox continued to hold off introducing new programs until post-season baseball concludes next month.

Part of the reason (perhaps the entire reason) Firefly tanked in the ratings was that F*X did NOT wait until after the baseball post-season to air Firefly. ARGH!

I doubt they've learned to recognize quality TV shows when said shows bite them on the ass, but at least they've learned not to air said shows until baseball's over!

gojiro

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 1, 2004 6:45 AM

JAKE7

Maybe.

It will only be a matter of time before they're back to bringing great shows to air, only to yank them off!!

--------------
MAL: Everybody's makin' a fuss.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 1, 2004 8:32 AM

BIKISDAD

Quote:
Originally posted by jake7:
Maybe.

It will only be a matter of time before they're back to bringing great shows to air, only to yank them off!!

--------------
MAL: Everybody's makin' a fuss.

Well, not necessarily. After doing just what you said with Wonderfalls last year, they have yet to introduce any show that could be described as great or even half-decent quality.

I think they may have learned a lesson, but the lesson they "learned" is to not bring anything of quality to the air at all!

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 1, 2004 9:52 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

"A little too little, a little too late".

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 1, 2004 12:05 PM

SOUPCATCHER

There's at least two schools of thought on F*x's treatment of Firefly. One is that F*x made mistakes. The other is that F*x deliberately set Firefly up for failure. I subscribe to the latter theory. From listening to Joss' commentary, it sounds like F*x really didn't like what they got and did everything they could (death slot, pre-emption for baseball, lack of advertising, asking for a new pilot over the weekend, running shows out of order, etc.) so that Firefly would not have good ratings. They used the low ratings and high cost as justification for cancelling the show but to me they created the situation, almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. There's less evidence of why F*x didn't like Firefly. I have my own theories. Hank Parnell has advanced one that has some thought provoking elements. That's still a gray area for me. But there were too many mistakes made for this to be accidental, IMHO.

So I guess I wouldn't say that F*x learned anything from the cancellation of Firefly about how to better coax a show to success. What they did learn was that they were wrong in making the initial assumption that Firefly would never be a success (at least I would hope they learned this lesson).

*editted to change Josh to Joss. What the hell have I been smoking today?

There are three kinds of people: fighters, lovers, and screamers.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 1, 2004 2:00 PM

KASUO

Soup, what did Hank Parnell say?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 1, 2004 2:25 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Rather than do a recap, I'll just link to the article (and take the easy way out

).

http://www.fireflyfans.net/feature.asp?f=39

There are three kinds of people: fighters, lovers, and screamers.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 2, 2004 8:21 AM

ZOID

SoupCatcher and Fellow 'coats:

I myself have hypothesized that "Firefly" was killed by F*x because the message was anti-Big Business. BlueSun could not have possibly been interpreted by network execs (or their advertising reps) as being symbolic of somebody other than themselves. Joss stuck a a very sharp, pointed stick in the eye of mass marketing. Had the series been allowed to continue, Joss would have hammered that stake home, into the vast empty space that normally houses a brain in standard human anatomy (unintentional 'Buffy' reference).

When F*x brings "Fight Club" to their T.V. series lineup, complete with all the anarchist subtext, I will be convinced that they have learned their lesson. But, that ain't gonna happen, 'cause they're not gonna learn. I predict F*x will continue to deliver the T.V. equivalent of 'bread and circuses', and count on ad revenues from NFL, MLB and Fox News to keep them 'in the lilac'. And of course, they've got Ford and Coke paying big bucks for "American Idolatry" (*sneezes*Boycott Ford and Coke!*coughs*).

Luckily, I don't see that one success lasting 10 additional years. Everything wears out its welcome, eventually; hopefully, that show will die the ignominious death it so richly deserves, before I join the choir eternal...

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 201 days, 10 hours, 48 minutes, and 7 seconds left until The BDM!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 2, 2004 10:05 AM

RUXTON

The message of Firefly was also anti-government, and especially anti-government military. On another website I recently read that support is given to Hollywood movies by the military, but only if the prospective movie shows the military in a good light. No war crimes, and no Western government being the bad guys are allowed. If the military is shown to look bad by the movie script, the movie gets no support, nor any military "toys" to use. Of course the U.S. gov't and military complex of today are hand-in-glove with many TV presentations. Hence no Firefly.

.........Ruxton

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 3, 2004 7:59 AM

SHINYLETO

Well, the thing is, while Fox was probably none too keen on Firefly's anti- Big-Business, anti- government ideas, the audience probably wasn't either. Think for a moment about Fox's primary programming: Reality shows. Right-wing Fox News. These kind of things attract Republicans (the news) and morons (reality tv). The GOP is very big on supporting Federal power and businesses (please note that I'm not trying to take a political stance here) and the kinds of people who watch reality tv aren't interested in a deep character study- type show.

Think about the current political climate. People who don't like the government (Mal) are labelled as terrorists who 'hate freedom'. The regular Fox audience wouldn't want to be called freedom-haters, and they don't want to watch people who operate outside their go-USA, stars-and-stripes comfort zone. Point is, great show or not, Fox would have difficulty persuading a large chunk of its audience to watch it.

http://blackbirdcomic.keenspace.com/

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 3, 2004 9:59 AM

DANFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyLeto:
Think for a moment about Fox's primary programming...

That's an interesting take that I hadn't considered. To be honest, I have absolutely no network loyalty (or awareness) whatsoever. I just look for shows that I think I might like and check them out. So, I never gave any thought to Fox's programming "themes"; I just watched Firefly because I thought I might like it.

However, I can see where there might be some real truth to your comment. If so, then what network would have been more "Firefly friendly"? Again, I don't know the answer, because I don't know from networks and their themes. I just watch shows that I like wherever they show up.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 3, 2004 2:48 PM

ZOID

ShinyLeto wrote, in part:

Quote:
...(please note that I'm not trying to take a political stance here)...

Nice try, but no dice.

You are taking a political stance, pleas to the contrary notwithstanding. I like Firefly. I am a Republican (if anything). There goes your theory. My distaste for biased news coverage extends equally to CNN and Fox. I find it insulting that anyone would try to 'spin' my opinions, whether it's a news service or a layperson posting on an entertainment discussion board.

This discussion doesn't belong here. It belongs on 'Real World Discussions'; we fought hard to get precisely this kind of shite kicked off the General Discussion Board. Since you brought it up though: I lean towards the Republican Party because the rich people who run that party expect their followership to be responsible for their own happiness and welfare. The rich people who run the Democrats, on the other hand, are convinced that their poorer constituents are too stupid to know how to run their own lives; only Big Government can save us poor souls from ruining our chance at happiness. Take everyone's money (in taxes) and split it up as the wise, all-knowing rich people who run the Democratic party see fit.

Of course, I'm not trying to take a political stance here, but politicians -- and their mouthpieces -- should never visit my intentions. Ever.

Tactlessly,

zoid

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 3, 2004 4:03 PM

BIKISDAD

I'd like to respond with a big "Ditto" to everything that Zoid just said. I also lean Republican (actually registered that way, but often vote Libertarian). I love Firefly, have never watched one second of any damned reality show, and the only news I watch is local (Because all other network news is skewed as liberal as Fox News is skewed conservative).

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 3, 2004 4:35 PM

TOMANTA

Considering that Fox has had consistent, repeated pattern dating back over a decade of mistreating good television in the EXACT SAME WAY as they handled Firefly, it's doubtful that they will EVER learn.

"FOX! Where the shit hits the fans." - Tim Minear

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 3, 2004 9:19 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Zoid, I can see where Blue Sun, as a not so benevolent presence, would tend to make F*x leery. That's a pretty compelling hypothesis. A couple of things about it don't scan as well for me, though. It's hard to know just what F*x was basing their decision on. I've been assuming that it was the pilot episode itself that they had problems with rather than the entire body of work. I figured they made their minds up as soon as they saw Serenity. It's always problematic to try to draw conclusions from my own experience and extrapolate those out to F*x executives. But. That said.

I just didn't get all the Blue Sun references the first time through. Yeah, in retrospect, it's a huge sub-text. But it went right over my head. In my defense, I was mesmerized by the show and missed many of the details. That's why the DVDs have been so great. So I have a little bit of difficulty with F*x picking out the Blue Sun theme right off the bat.

I think, at the very least, F*x underestimated television viewers. A short time on these boards will convince a person that Firefly appeals to a huge spectrum of the population (domestic US and, increasingly, international). I'm not sure you can nail down just one demographic and say, "Yup. That's where the fireflyfans are coming from."

In regards to the thread taking a turn for the political... I completely agree that the Real Worlds Events Discussion section is where that should happen. I feel slightly responsible for this unfortunate turn. I purposefully did not state my theories on why F*x didn't like Firefly because some of them do range over into political type matters and I felt this thread wasn't the place for that. But I did tweak the conversation in the direction of F*x's motives and also linked to Hank Parnell's essay, which has a strong political theme. So that might not have been the smartest thing on my part. I'm properly apologetic.

There are three kinds of people: fighters, lovers, and screamers.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, October 4, 2004 7:59 AM

JUTIN

As much as I truely hate FOX, it's mostly for being the indian givers that they are... they do have some of the best programing. "24" is probably one of the most inspired and original and only real action show on the air. "Arrested Development" is simply the smartest, funnest comedy to EVER hit the airwaves EVER! "Dark Angel" was a brilliant show from James Cameron. "Wonderfalls" was so unique and darkly comical that it was just simply doomed to be cancelled (and replaced by "The Swan" crap). "Greg The Bunny" was a great mix of The Larry Sanders Show and The Muppet Show. "Action" was an 1999 show that FX airs once in a while, that was just another sheer genious show... you flip down the dial and ABC, NBC, The WB (of course Buffy and Angel were unique), CBS, and UPN are just recycling the same formulas of reality shows, sitcoms, and police drams. ABC got "Who wants to be a Millionaire" and they put in one 5 times a week." and everyone got tired of it... FAST! - CBS has CSI and now they has 3 CSI shows in 3 years and you can catch a CSI show 6 times a week (or at least last week you could).

...sorry for the rant

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, October 4, 2004 1:08 PM

BROWNCOATFAN1

i realy hate fox now they could have given firefly a few more weeks try

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 5, 2004 6:34 AM

GHOULMAN

Great thread! Soupcatcher, Zoid... all posts that put forth what I too believe about FOX and the cancellation of Firefly... it was political.

Personally, I think FOX planned to get rid of Joss Whedon the micron Fred put up that "Dixie Chicks" poster in her Wolfram&Heart office.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 5, 2004 8:06 AM

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Could you please just make it stranger? Stranger. Odder. Could be weirder. More bizarre. How about uncanny?

[soapbox]
I believe it was political, for many of the reasons cited above, and with that in mind F*x should remember...

Freedom of speech.
A goverment by the people for the people.
Work hard for what you want and need and you have the opportunity (not guarentee!) to get it.

Now if the people at F*x feared repurcussions from big business and big government, then they are as anti-American as they come. If they expect that if they stay quiet and do not make waves they will get "something" handed to them just for doing so, they'll continue to only have suck programming and anti-F*x sentiments. A pox on F*x for being like that. This nation was founded on controversey and exists today because of such. They are cowardly piss-pots that should've been kicked out of Hollywood a long time ago.

That is simply my opinion. F*x will never learn its lesson so long as it hides behind its own fear.
[/soapbox]

Of course, it's possible Reavers ate all the intelligent people at F*x, and that got them a might bit tetchy. ;P

TCM

p.s. As a sidenote, I always vote for who I think is the best candidate for the future of our country...maybe someday the Democrats will put up someone who will stop thinking we are all mindless apes who need gov't to pick the lice out of our hairy *zzzt!* TRANSMISSION CANCELLED *zzzzt!*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not yet an OFFICIAL BROWNCOAT? Well join up and swell the ranks 'cuz I am thinkin' we will rise again!
visit: http://browncoats.serenitymovie.com/serenity/?u=TenthCrewMember
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Show your Browncoat pride! I have original (meaning: designed by me!)
T-shirts and posters for sale
http://www.zazzle.com/contributors/home/default.asp?cid=23847914695881
5760

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 5, 2004 4:50 PM

SHINYLETO

Look, I'm not trying to offend anyone here. It was not my intention to suggest that Republicans are idiots. There are idiots who may or may not be Republicans who watch reality TV, and there are idiots who may or may not be Democrats who watch reality TV. That's not the point. The point is that the current, Repbulican administration, and by extension a resonable percentage of the Republican party, has thus far demonstrated a pro-business and pro- federal power stance.

I am in no way making a statement about my own beliefs on these issues, and I am not saying that, just because Firefly is anti-business and anti-federal power that no Republican would watch it. Those are by no means the only themes in the show, and it can certainly be enjoyed regardless of one's political persuasion. I am simply saying that, because these facts exist, the demographic that tunes into Fox may not latch on to a show like Firefly. Its just a shame that Fox keeps stumbling on good shows that they end up cancelling because they have a large chunk of viewers who are the wrong audience for them.

http://blackbirdcomic.keenspace.com/

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 5, 2004 5:51 PM

ZOID

ShinyLeto wrote:

Quote:
Look, I'm not trying to offend anyone here...

Too late. And the remainder of your post did nothing to dispel that impression.

The only thing you've managed to conclusively demonstrate to me is the depth to which you've been indoctrinated in your party's dogma. Painting an entire group of people (i.e., Republicans) who are individuals you do not even know, with such broad strokes is not only a case of denigration of their character, it is nothing short of idealogical bigotry. Why not just say that 'the majority' of Republicans are cigar-chewing fat cats with their feet propped up on the backs of wage slaves?

Your party's nominee to the highest elected office in the land is not only married into one of the greatest familial icons of the Big Business that you're attempting to villify -- in your myopically egocentric way -- he's also politically beholden to the living symbol of Big Government run amok. Without the former he wouldn't have the money to run for dogcatcher, without the latter he wouldn't have the political clout.

If you believe that the Democratic Party is truly the party of 'the little man', the working man, then try this simple test: Get drunk at a party. Get in your car and drive. Drive the car off a bridge, with your 'secretary' (doing God alone knows what) in the front seat next to you. Drag your sorry ass to shore, leaving her to drown. Don't tell anybody until the next day.

I guaran-damn-tee you will not grow up to be the senior Senator from Massachusetts, the power behind your party. You will be getting sodomized on a daily basis by your cellmate, who -- even though he may be a fellow Democrat -- is definitely not a 'little man'.

As far as 'the facts' are concerned, have you ever looked up the personal financial worth of your party's leaders? Didn't think so. Not including the amount the junior Senator from New York scammed off the people of the US through real estate and S&L fraud in the 70's and 80's, she could still buy you several times just from the rent on her taxpayer-provided Manhattan penthouse offices (I recall a figure in excess of $1 million per year. Care to dispute?)

Next time you're trying to mend fences with those you may have angered/insulted, leave the gasoline and matches at home. Eating crow's not easy; but I have it on very good authority that it goes down easier with some Heinz 51 on it...

Angrily,

zoid

P.S.
I will never respond to this crap again. I sincerely hope I offended anyone who adheres to a holier-than-thou worldview, regardless their political affiliation. When I want to hear propaganda, I'll get it from a professional source.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 5, 2004 5:54 PM

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Could you please just make it stranger? Stranger. Odder. Could be weirder. More bizarre. How about uncanny?

Quote:
I am simply saying that, because these facts exist, the demographic that tunes into Fox may not latch on to a show like Firefly. Its just a shame that Fox keeps stumbling on good shows that they end up cancelling because they have a large chunk of viewers who are the wrong audience for them.

Funny that sites like this exist, then. Check that fact against the ones you just made up.

Don't seem right. All that effort into killing a show because no one would watch it, wasted because DVD sales (what they sold a cancelled show on DVD?!?!) are constantly going up and the fan-base is so strong and outspoken that now there will be a movie (see DVD sales). Yeah, they targeted the wrong audience. You sure cracked the case wide open.

Blame the fans & non-fans (known as an audience) as a whole...genius. Of course if the show had actually BEEN PROMOTED AND AIRED PROPERLY, some of us might not have missed it the first go 'round.

F*x is just a sad little king of a sad little hill. Petty execs with delusions of standing.

Gee, I love the warm feeling I get bringin' religiosity to the fuzzy-wuzzies!

Cilantro!
TCM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not yet an OFFICIAL BROWNCOAT? Well join up and swell the ranks 'cuz I am thinkin' we will rise again!
visit: http://browncoats.serenitymovie.com/serenity/?u=TenthCrewMember
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Show your Browncoat pride! I have original (meaning: designed by me!)
T-shirts and posters for sale
http://www.zazzle.com/contributors/home/default.asp?cid=23847914695881
5760

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 6, 2004 3:04 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

You know I hate to see Browncoats at odds w/ one another, regardless of the reasons.

A wise man said, "There are three things I never discuss; how much money I make, politics, and religion". Ok, the wise part may be premature, but when Nathan said this all I could do was nod my head in agreement. Nothing will cause an arguement (or start a war) faster than discussing politics or religion.

If I might be so bold, let's all take a deep breath, step back, and let this go. It's not worth arguing about.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 6, 2004 4:26 AM

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Could you please just make it stranger? Stranger. Odder. Could be weirder. More bizarre. How about uncanny?

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
You know I hate to see Browncoats at odds w/ one another, regardless of the reasons.

Agreed. However, I'd like to see that Browncoat in particular, educate himself just a little, not much, so as not to anger others. If you use the word "facts" have one or two. If you make a claim, such as F*x's veiwership is mostly Republican voters, at least have a link to show that research so we too can be educated, IF that be the case. And if you don't know, ask, someone might be able to show you the answer.

It's not really too much to ask if you are trying to have an intellectual discussion about a very real subject. I'd prefer to keep it light and friendly, but "I just can't abide useless people."

Truth is, he(she?) MAY be right, but he did nothing to support his claim. Instead he brought a heap of trouble down on himself because, whether intended or not, he looked the part of political monkey by the words and their delivery.

Oh, and in keeping with this thread, NO, F*x will never learn its lesson until they lose enough viewership and sponsorship. Their shotgun approach is working, for now, as they seem to jump from one demographic to the next with the "new show-cancel it-another new show-cancel it-etc."

Eventually they'll burn through every demographic, whether it be young male Republicans who like to eat steak or old Iranian homemakers with dyslexia, soon they will have made and prematurely

cancelled a great show for everyone on the planet and no one will watch their channels anymore. At least they are equal-opportunity-shysters.

M

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Show your Browncoat pride! I have original (meaning: designed by me!)
T-shirts and posters for sale
http://www.zazzle.com/contributors/home/default.asp?cid=23847914695881
5760
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Recreate a bar fight or even the Battle for Serenity Valley in

Firefly: BIG DAMN HEROES

my newest creation! A customizable strategy boardgame based
off the very show we all love! Download it at
http://homepage.mac.com/gojiro42/PhotoAlbum10.html

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 6, 2004 6:42 AM

JAKE7

Ok, I may be dense, but I don't recall Blue Sun really being discussed in the show, all we got were pictures in the background about Blue Sun, which reminds me alot of the Coca-Cola signs in New York (never been, remembering pictures I've seen).

I fail to see how Blue Sun could have possibly been seen as much more as just "advertising"

Did I miss something here? I've seen this on plenty of threads and I'm just now wondering how this leap was made that this is some sort of "common knowledge"?

--------------
MAL: Everybody's makin' a fuss.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 6, 2004 11:28 AM

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyLeto:
Point is, great show or not, Fox would have difficulty persuading a large chunk of its audience to watch it.

I never understood this when one had to get out of the chair or off the couch to change the channel. And now?

Does anyone here actually watch a network? I cannot recall a time when I have ever done so; it's always been a show.

Keep the Shiny Side Up

Wutzon: Green Lemon, "Flight of Manwe", eponymous

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 6, 2004 11:34 AM

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same

Quote:
Originally posted by jake7:
Ok, I may be dense, but I don't recall Blue Sun really being discussed in the show, all we got were pictures in the background about Blue Sun, which reminds me alot of the Coca-Cola signs in New York (never been, remembering pictures I've seen).

I fail to see how Blue Sun could have possibly been seen as much more as just "advertising"

Did I miss something here? I've seen this on plenty of threads and I'm just now wondering how this leap was made that this is some sort of "common knowledge"?

It's common knowledge once you listen to Joss's commentaries & special features on the DVD.

And, in just a little while, you'll remember that you had figured that out for yourself, and knew it all along, just like the rest of us.

Keep the Shiny Side Up

Wutzon: Grateful Dead, "Doin' That Rag", from "Fillmore East 2/11/69"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 6, 2004 11:53 AM

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
I think, at the very least, F*x underestimated television viewers.

While it probably won't amount to a counterexample, it does make a nice contraindication to the aphorism "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public". I think it comes from P T Barnum; it is definitely pre-TV.

Quote:
There are three kinds of people: fighters, lovers, and screamers.

' course, there are other schools of thought. Here's a couple:

"There are two kinds of people in the world: the kind that think there are only two kinds of people in the world, and the kind that think that people who think there are only two kinds of people in the world are a bunch of mindless twits." (HG2tG)

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: the kind that understand binary, and the kind that don't.

Keep the Shiny Side Up

Wutzon: Phish, "Run Like an Antelope I", from "Live"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 6, 2004 11:58 AM

SHINYLETO

Quote:
The only thing you've managed to conclusively demonstrate to me is the depth to which you've been indoctrinated in your party's dogma.

I don't have a party. I'm not registered with any political organization, and I'm sure as hell not a Democrat, and I'm sure as hell not a Republican. I know you have no intention to respond, which is a wise move, as I think this line of conversation needs to stop. But let me first try to clarify here, for everyone else:

I am not trying to make a political statement. I am not saying that Republicans are a party of "cigar chewing fat cats" and that Democrats are "the party of the little man", because that's just a plain stupid thing to think. I'm simply saying that

A)The Republican party supports federal power. This is a fact. The Democratic party supports stronger state government power. Don't try to argue with it; it goes back to before the Civil War and its one of the reasons the conflict was fought: state vs. federal power. Sound familiar? Browncoats vs. the Alliance. Personally, I think a strong federal government with a reasonable balance of state government power is the best way to go, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

B) There are a lot of closed-minded people in the world. Some of them are Democrats, some of them are Republicans, and some of them are something else. Would I not watch a television show because its characters' beliefs differed from mine? Of course I'd watch it, if it was good. But many people are unwilling to step outside their boundaries and take a look at someone else's values. Some of these close-minded people may be Republicans who watch Fox because it has some right-wing programming, and are unwilling to watch a show that does not agree with their beliefs. Likewise, there are just as many close-minded Democrats who would be attract to a network with some left-wing programming, who would not stay to watch a show that conflicted with their beliefs.

C) I'm talking about demographics, not politics. I have no numbers to support what I'm saying, you're absolutely right. I was just presenting an idea, and I had hoped that it would not be belittled and ridiculed because of certain people's political beliefs. A simple "Well, I disagree with you on this, and here's my line of reasoning" would have been fine. I wasn't trying to advance any kind of political agenda, and I'm genuinely sorry if the way I worded my post made it seem that way. I'm not "blaming the fans", I'm blaming the network for poorly promoting and managing the show.

And maybe I'm wrong. People seem to be of that opinion, and maybe they're right. I'm certainly open to the possibility that I am dead wrong. I'm just asking for a chance, and I'm really sorry that the way I worded things caused people to take my remarks as offensive. I'll take Zoid's route and I won't say any more on the subject. Apologies for the post.

http://blackbirdcomic.keenspace.com/

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 6, 2004 12:33 PM

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same

Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatfan1:
i realy hate fox now they could have given firefly a few more weeks try

I thank Fox, for giving Joss Whedon $38Million to make this series (rumored $12Million for the pilot, plus $2Million per ep). I thank Fox for putting it on the air. And I am grateful to all of you here; you kept Joss's spirits up, and helped him get the DVD released. Without all three of the above, I wouldn't have known Firefly.

Keep the Shiny Side Up

Wutzon: Derek Trucks Band, "Afro Blue", from "Soul Serenade"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 6, 2004 12:41 PM

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyLeto:
I am not trying to make a political statement.

Please try harder. Or take this elsewhere.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 6, 2004 3:43 PM

ZOID

EDIT: Removed by author, due to inappropriate tone and subject matter, with all due apologies to anyone it may have offended.

Cordially,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can take the sky from me, when you peel it from my cold dead fingers." The Ballad of Serenity, as recited by Charlton Heston

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 6, 2004 8:13 PM

BOOSTER

Quote:
B) There are a lot of closed-minded people in the world. Some of them are Democrats, some of them are Republicans, and some of them are something else.

Putting flame suit on first.

As an Aussie Browncoat this thread has actually upset me.
I know this board prolly resides in the US and all but maybe some of you should remember that the Internet is a global thing and that the elections you guys are having in your country are actually only happening in your country. Dont get me wrong, I am not anti-American, I like America and Americans and whoever is in the White House does not mean anything to me.

And since Fox is kinda owned by an Aussie I would like to throw my 2c in but the political debate between shiny and zoid has really put me off posting anything constructive other than to say that Fox will never realise their mistake.

As a final note zoid asked shiny to argue the political history, i appeal to shiny not too. if you guys want to have a political discussion start a thread about it, dont have it in a thread that internationals may want to contribute to.

Runs away quickly...

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 6, 2004 8:48 PM

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same

Quote:
Originally posted by Booster:
Runs away quickly...

Please don't. I'd rather that folks who want to talk about Firefly in general stay in this forum, while those who want to talk about other stuff take it otherwhere. S/N seems to be declining.

Keep the Shiny Side Up

Wutzon: Psycho Grass, "Big Gravel", from "Like Minds"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 7, 2004 12:03 AM

ZOID

Booster, et al:

I humbly apologize for my previous posts, since they strayed from the subject matter of this thread. I was wrong.

There you go F*x. Wasn't that easy?

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 196 days, 19 hours, 7 minutes, and 41 seconds left until The BDM!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 7, 2004 6:11 PM

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:

I was wrong.

There you go F*x. Wasn't that easy?

Maybe not. Such an admission by the exec(s) responsible might be a direct precursor to never eating lunch in this town again. I wonder if all network programming execs know, deep in their hearts, that they ain't really wearing any clothes.

But to return the thread to its origin, I agree that the decision by Fox TV this year to avoid introducing new series during baseball playoffs is an admission of a mistake, just not specific to Firefly.

Keep the Shiny Side Up

Wutzon: Aquarium Rescue Unit, "How Tight's Yer Drawers", from "In a Perfect World"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 8, 2004 11:49 AM

ZOID

YT wrote:

Quote:
...an admission by the exec(s) responsible (that they were wrong) might be a direct precursor to never eating lunch in this town again. I wonder if all network programming execs know, deep in their hearts, that they ain't really wearing any clothes.

But to return the thread to its origin, I agree that the decision by Fox TV this year to avoid introducing new series during baseball playoffs is an admission of a mistake, just not specific to Firefly.

I agree on all the points you made; but you could take it a bit further. Unless one admits that a mistake has been made -- without looking to shuffle some or all of the blame onto someone else -- one has no chance of eliminating the cause and making better decisions. As a result, those execs will soon be 'dining out' (of town) anyway, or else F*x as a whole will continue to bring up the rear in the Nielsen's.

Clearly, F*x have fallen victim to their own ineptitude and allowed a chance at the golden ring slip through their grasp, by letting Firefly go before it had a chance to find its sea legs. DVD sales and the upcoming movie release (and subsequent movie DVD sales, I'm sure) are proving to be a gold mine.

Holding off on new series until after the baseball playoffs is -- I am certain -- only compounding that error. I would have never seen the promo for Firefly if I hadn't been watching the playoffs on F*x. They should have done then, what I suggest they do now: Premiere the new series, but ignore the ratings until after the playoffs and the schedule normalizes. Ignore that the numbers are bad. If F*x had taken a beating with Firefly, recognizing that it was due in large part to scheduling irregularities, they would have been reaping the rewards for a couple of years by now. ...Unless someone would care to argue that the only reason people like Firefly is because F*x cancelled it. I would counter-argue that people like Firefly because it is a great and innovative entertainment. Given a proper opportunity, it would have turned into a money-maker and the cornerstone of a surge in the network's overall ratings, and repaid F*x for its patience.

F*x' main goal -- as the distant 4th network in the polls -- must be to attract new viewers, and new 'eyeballs' for their advertisers. However, by denying their new series the broad demographics of the 'captive' sports viewers, they're failing in this goal of trying to grow their audience.

This is precisely what I'm talking about when I say that those who are unable to admit to their mistakes are doomed to repeat them. Until they are willing to take the personal risk and admit that they failed -- not just with Firefly, but with other shows as well -- they will only continue to make bad judgments, built upon the wreckage of previous bad decisions.

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 195 days, 7 hours, 20 minutes, and 5 seconds left until The BDM!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER

POST DATE