GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

OK THIS MAY BE OBVIOUS FOR SOME!!!

POSTED BY: JENDANDY
UPDATED: Thursday, October 21, 2004 18:42
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Monday, October 18, 2004 2:51 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by 11thHour:
Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I've seen no less than five forums come apart at the seams because people "let it slide" - don't, it's a dire mistake and encourages recidivism.

-F



I agree.

Whatever is in our power to take action against this individual, we should pursue it.

That trog intentionally caused the normal use of this site to cease. "It" inserted code that caused an aggressively gross image to pop up, without warning, which was HIGHLY disturbing and obscene.

People need to do whatever can be done to find these kinds of perpetrators... those angry, loser, cowardly trogs who can't generate enough cognitive energy to use their keystrokes for something useful. To just put up one's hands and exclaim, "Well there's nothing you can do... that's the way it is... " IS passively assisting the anti-social behavior.

Tighten up the site security, fine... but also do what can be done to track that trog down. What "it" did was inexcusable and caused a great deal of upset to the folks here. In fact, it even upset people from other sites because I had posted a link to one of my wallpapers on another board. Some really nice friends of mine were assaulted with that perverted image.

That's the kind of thing you don't just let slide.



I concur 100% 11th. I strongly encourage Haken to pursue this matter to the fullest extent of whatever passes for law governing the internet.

It would appear that the Troll is back. Haken apparently attempted to ban them, but they are posting in the taglog on the homepage under another name. They have issued a challenge to Haken to try to ban them.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Monday, October 18, 2004 4:19 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:

I concur 100% 11th. I strongly encourage Haken to pursue this matter to the fullest extent of whatever passes for law governing the internet.

It would appear that the Troll is back. Haken apparently attempted to ban them, but they are posting in the taglog on the homepage under another name. They have issued a challenge to Haken to try to ban them.



There is no law governing the internet. The only laws that apply will be those in which that person is physically located.

But the way 11th is speaking is that we can do something. This is exactly beyond our power. The only one who has the power is Haken. Let him do whatever it takes to get rid of this intruder.

So, let's stop wasting energy *saying* that something should be done. If you have no ideas (as I have stated above) take those unhappy thoughts and turn them into the happy ones that is Firefly.

If you have ideas, present them. I have just sent Haken a message with an idea and an offer of further help. So those of you who wish to help... help.

To the others, bitching about the situation does nothing but boil the blood. See happy thoughts suggestion above.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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Monday, October 18, 2004 6:56 AM

FREMDFIRMA


I was going to write more on why ignore it and they'll go away, or look the other way and pretend it didn't happen... is just asking for it, but having thought over whether it's likely to do any good or not ?

Forget it, do what you will... me, I'll head for the door, no sense in beatin my head on a wall.

See ya when you figure it out, maybe.

-F

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Monday, October 18, 2004 7:36 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I was going to write more on why ignore it and they'll go away, or look the other way and pretend it didn't happen... is just asking for it, but having thought over whether it's likely to do any good or not ?

Forget it, do what you will... me, I'll head for the door, no sense in beatin my head on a wall.

See ya when you figure it out, maybe.

-F



Um, I never said "do nothing about it" or "just ignore it." I just stated the obvious fact that there is *nothing* that a non-Haken person can do about.

So, what good could come of continual "we should do something" when there is nothing that can be done by non-Haken individuals?

I offered a suggestion and my help if he wants it. That is what is within my power. *That* *is* *constructive*. If others can do this as well then I would encourage them to do so.

Continual, "we should do something" is *not* constructive. To put it in a vulgar way, shit or get off the pot. Basically, don't take the attitude of superior knowledge with me when you have not done anything to help the situation.

If you don't have a way to actually help the situation, let it go. Let Haken do the work (because only he can) and hope and send our best wishes that he succeeds in banning this irritation. It is all you can do.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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Monday, October 18, 2004 10:24 PM

11THHOUR


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
So, what good could come of continual "we should do something" when there is nothing that can be done by non-Haken individuals?



Speaking only for myself, my use of "we" was more of the collective description. We, meaning the users of this site and Haken... our community. Whatever steps Haken can take, and with which the users may assist, is "we".

One Forum member mentioned having a police officer friend who has the connections to investigate this matter, and was pursuing it. This is one example of a non-Haken individual helping.

Quote:

I offered a suggestion and my help if he wants it. That is what is within my power. *That* *is* *constructive*. If others can do this as well then I would encourage them to do so.

Continual, "we should do something" is *not* constructive. To put it in a vulgar way, shit or get off the pot. Basically, don't take the attitude of superior knowledge with me when you have not done anything to help the situation.



Proceeding ahead in a constructive manner is the best plan.

I'm not an expert on the coding wizardry involved in a website, but I can offer some suggestions:

• The redirect codes in the image gallery were entered under an "Anonymous" posting. Perhaps some type of block could be made which only permits postings from members using their names.

• It would be good to devise a block which prevents "redirect", or other manipulative, codes from being entered into messages. Only text, clickable web links or images should be permitted.

• Perhaps Haken could assign certain site adminstrative access to a handful of trusted members. Haken can't be expected to monitor this site 24/7, so it would be good to have others on hand to help put out troll fires.

Just some thoughts off the top of my head. I have no idea if they are practical or doable, but hey, at least they are meant to be constructive.

11thHour

________________________________________________

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!"

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Tuesday, October 19, 2004 1:09 AM

FREDEP


I completely agree with you there 11th!...that's a good set of plans

Just sitting back and let Haken do all the work seems hardly fair to me, and it was clearly show this weekend that lot's of people were willing to try to solve the problem, SJ even succeeded in overriding the trolls redirect and was able to redirect some of the pages elsewhere. So don't say there's nothing we can do.
Sure as long as Haken is the onle one with adminstrative rights he's the only one who can really change things. But we won't just sit back and let someone try to mess with the site.

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Tuesday, October 19, 2004 2:42 AM

11THHOUR


Quote:

Originally posted by Fredep:
I completely agree with you there 11th!...that's a good set of plans



Thanks. Just doing something to get the ball rolling. We wanna make sure the Reavers don't get us!

Quote:

Just sitting back and let Haken do all the work seems hardly fair to me, and it was clearly show this weekend that lot's of people were willing to try to solve the problem, SJ even succeeded in overriding the trolls redirect and was able to redirect some of the pages elsewhere. So don't say there's nothing we can do.


Yep.

I was darn inspirin' to see SJ pick up Vera and give that troll some of its own medicine! Yeeehaaaaw!

Quote:

Sure as long as Haken is the onle one with adminstrative rights he's the only one who can really change things. But we won't just sit back and let someone try to mess with the site


Damn straight!

I was very impressed with the way so many people were willing to do something about the troll assault. You were even one of the three people who dove in and rallied to undo the troll's evil coding on my "Serenity Gold" page... was quite a sight to see. Thank you so much!

The part about folks in addition to Haken having administrative rights may be a tricky subject. From what I understand, Haken hand coded and made this site himself. So it's hard to say if allowing others access to the site would be something Haken would be comfortable with. But you never know, it's an idea that could be considered. At least the suggestions about some type of blocks could go a long way to heading off future troll assaults.

Firefly fans do NOT let their sky get taken away!

11thHour

________________________________________________

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!"

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Tuesday, October 19, 2004 3:11 AM

FREDEP


Quote:

I was very impressed with the way so many people were willing to do something about the troll assault. You were even one of the three people who dove in and rallied to undo the troll's evil coding on my "Serenity Gold" page... was quite a sight to see. Thank you so much!


Ah no need to thank me for that 11th, I was just trying(...and failing )...it was the least I could do

Quote:

The part about folks in addition to Haken having administrative rights may be a tricky subject. From what I understand, Haken hand coded and made this site himself. So it's hard to say if allowing others access to the site would be something Haken would be comfortable with. But you never know, it's an idea that could be considered. At least the suggestions about some type of blocks could go a long way to heading off future troll assaults


Yeah...I think that's just something for Haken to decide, but if he would want it then I'm sure there are enough people here who would want to help out a bit. And the kind of assaults like this one can indeed just be stopped by blocking the entrance of code as haken done now. Still I think that...especially with the movie comming up (which I'm sure will mean more visitors)...that some extra people who'll just keep an eye out for trouble could come in handy. But as I said, that's something only Haken can decide

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Tuesday, October 19, 2004 4:55 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by 11thHour:

One Forum member mentioned having a police officer friend who has the connections to investigate this matter, and was pursuing it. This is one example of a non-Haken individual helping.



True, this is an example of someone helping (which I encouraged above). But, at the same time, there are problems with finding the person, etc. I won't reiterate my points, see above.


Quote:

Originally posted by 11thHour:

• The redirect codes in the image gallery were entered under an "Anonymous" posting. Perhaps some type of block could be made which only permits postings from members using their names.



This is a good idea if we know that everyone will play nice and we know that not to be true. Someone could just give a fake name or someone else's. It's one of the fundamental security problems of the net.

If it hasn't been done already, Haken could log the whatever is the unique id for the post which would provide the info needed to track the person down. This is easily implemented. Which is the upside. The downside with this is that the logs will get quite large.


Quote:

Originally posted by 11thHour:

• It would be good to devise a block which prevents "redirect", or other manipulative, codes from being entered into messages. Only text, clickable web links or images should be permitted.

• Perhaps Haken could assign certain site adminstrative access to a handful of trusted members. Haken can't be expected to monitor this site 24/7, so it would be good to have others on hand to help put out troll fires.



Your first suggestion is doable. This is something that would've come up under policy review and code audit (which I suggested above).

Your second suggestion (as I mentioned above) should have been implemented already (that is, if it hasn't been) as moderators are at the heart of keeping a community like this stable.


Unfortunatly all this takes a suprising amount of time. In fact, I've been amazed at how much time it takes even an experienced programmer accomplish the most basic tasks. Programming tends to be a fustrating and humbling experience.

Now, if only someone out there knows ASP that Haken trusts we could get these things done post haste. It's not to say that Haken can't do it, it's just that, from what I've heard, the man is very busy.


On another note, I believe that this experience *does* have a silver lining. If this troll didn't come along then the site would've still been vulnerable and if someone came along that was malicious (more so), then greater problems could've happened.

This gives Haken (and the 0 or more people he gets to help him (I'd understand if he's shy about this right now)) the chance to tighen up the site *before* something drastic happened. After all, the *only* way to prevent these sorts of things happening is to make the site too tough a nut to crack. Then the would be attacker will move onto easier pickin's.


@Haken:
If you wish for some help, I could send you my skill set and we can go from there. If not, I wish you god speed in your task.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:42 PM

MISTWALKER


Gods I hope you catch that trol... haveing seen that pic yeah that says it all...

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