more asians in serenity by jebusyoon

Quote:
Originally posted by jebusyoon:
i don't know if anyone's mentioned this but... for a world that's melted the asian and western culture so well, why aren't there more asians? i mean, i love the show, and everything, but it would be cool if they had asian people speaking an asian language, or do the smuggling happen in caucasian worlds? sorry, just a little angry, being an asian-american, if you couldn't tell by my poor grammar... :P anywho, any asian would be fine, know or not so known... (me)cough... hahaha. like, for instance, jakie chan, jet li, johnny young bosh, william hung... wait... maybe not all, but some asian dude/dudette. well, thanks for reading my post! but seriously, joss is a genious.

I've definitely noticed. There's the occasional Chinese fellow (assuming by language). But, I figured in an environment like that in Firefly, areas might be separated based on language. Since the crew mostly bums around in English-speaking enclaves, then perhaps more of their contacts are of European and North American descent from Earth-that-was.

Then, there's also the fact of there being fewer Asian-American actors out there. Too bad, too. KF

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 8:00 PM

STAKETHELURK

Quote:
Then, there's also the fact of there being fewer Asian-American actors out there. Too bad, too.

I wasn't aware of that. Interesting (though unfortunate). Joss has said they auditioned asian actors for basically every role on the series (both cast and guest star), but felt that the other actors just out-performed them (why couldn't they get Daniel Dae Kim from "Angel" for a guest stint?). So, a smaller talent pool means fewer numbers of high quality actors and thus basically no roles.

It should be pointed out that Ott from the comic books (where casting played somewhat less of a role) was Asian and had a fair amount of... um... page time. He also had no Chinese lines, whatever that means in the grand picture.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 8:04 PM

Well, if you just look at how many Mesopotamians are running around today... Maybe that's where all of the Asians have gone in the ff universe - the way of the Mesopotamians...

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 9:10 PM

yeah, im thinking that there aren't many key asian actors in many films, and the ones that are decent at that practice only speak a friegn lanugage which really sucks. you would imagine that the world, no matter how seperated by language we are, gets intergrated, especially if we have to leave our world and colonize a new solar system. i just wish joss would make more of an effort to look for quality asian actors such as daniel dae kim, who is probably busy with lost which is another show i am currently obsessed over. i mean, it will take lots of man power, but it's the subtle things like that i appreciate about joss' work. ooo, or have david carradine do an apperence or something... oh well. dreams are ment to be dreamt.

but definately no william hung, i just can't stand that guy. i mean, he set back asians 17 generations. i feel my ancestors turning in their graves.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 9:52 PM

RAKARR

Well the crew of Serenity doesn't speak other languages that we know of except for some Chinese slang. It wouldn't be very logical for them to do business with people they can't comunicate with well.

There was asians in the movie though. Not playing big parts but they in there if I remember right.

Maybe if they do a 2nd Season they will get a new piolet that's asian?

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 11:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
I wasn't aware of that. Interesting (though unfortunate). Joss has said they auditioned asian actors for basically every role on the series (both cast and guest star), but felt that the other actors just out-performed them

Yeah, that's why I don't think this was an intentional oversight. Joss tried to work around it, but not to the extent of passing up on good actors that portrayed the sort of characters he wanted to see.

I mean, it's hard to deny that Firefly had an excellent cast. It's like each actor was just meant for their role. Even Jayne's. Though, it does make it creepy to see Summer Glau talking normally (and didn't she do another 'crazy' role in The 4400?). KF

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Wednesday, October 5, 2005 6:48 AM

think of what you're saying man... asians not speaking... english? i think that's a very bad stereotype you just made. anywho, seeing how they're under one government, you'd think they'd make some type of universal language... no pun intended.

there were couple of stabs at trying to place more asians in the series/movie, such as the pilot, where they were selling cooked dog meat, and the movie, where there was an exotic asian fan dancer in the bar. but im asking for a little more consideration, such as...

the lady in the transport, couldn't she be asian? i mean, there's tons of supporting cast that he could have tried and really have "gone out of his way" to find an asian. if you really have a passion for a craft, or an idea, going out of your way wouldn't be that big of a deal... well, i guess it is for me :D.

but yes, the cast is perfect. im not saying change everything, but the next time he places an idea on the paper, could he try and have an asian in mind? (and i know how devoted he is by how much time he spends on the slang)

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Wednesday, October 5, 2005 7:26 AM

KINGPAUSE

I know this won't hold up because there are plenty of other races visible in the 'verse, occasional "background" Asians included, but my personal theory always was that, in this story, races have become so mixed after 500 years (especially considering the fact that a lot of these people were conceived on colonies with limited populations) that basically everyone is 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, or 1/16 something.

"Tam" is, after all, a very Chinese surname.

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Wednesday, October 5, 2005 7:57 AM

BELASERA

Yeah, I always assumed that Simon and River were at least half asian, though in the ep with their parents, those actors didn't look asian at all.
I agree with the original poster, though, I too would enjoy a better casting blend.

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Wednesday, October 5, 2005 8:47 PM

finally, someone that agrees. yes, tam is a chinese surname, but the actors didn't look even remotely asian. nor did their parents in the tv show. i was about to say how i found it odd that i was the only one wrestling with this thought and everyone saying, "it's ok, who cares if everyone's white?", but thank you for wanting a blend. i guess... im just complaining... as most americans do, and im sorry for that. i just wanted to have some company. you know, that ol' cliché, "misery desires company" or something like that. i forget, hey, i was born in this country, but i still don't understand it.

i love serenity.

jebus, are you looking around the room and saying that you love them?

i love serenity.

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Wednesday, October 5, 2005 9:15 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

Well, Summer Glau does have some Asian features.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Thursday, October 6, 2005 3:13 AM

THEPLAGUE

This was definitely something I noticed too, and found kinda disappointing in terms of "universe continuity" (for lack of a better term).

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Thursday, October 6, 2005 4:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jebusyoon:
think of what you're saying man... asians not speaking... english? i think that's a very bad stereotype you just made. anywho, seeing how they're under one government, you'd think they'd make some type of universal language... no pun intended.

You really are taking that the wrong way. Think in worldwide terms... There are a lot more Asians who don't speak English as a first (or primary) language than those who do. Since, well, there are plenty more Asians than Asian-Americans (or Europeans, Australians, etc.).

I always figured that there would be a much larger Chinese population the more you got onto the core planets. Since the core planets aren't really a favored destination for Serenity, we don't see much of them. Other Earth-that-Was nationalities could be elsewhere, who knows.

I mean, it's not as silly as everyone in the future police department in Time Trax being white. KF

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ZOE: Preacher, don’t the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?
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Thursday, October 6, 2005 4:57 AM

SONG

I quite agree with the original complaint here -- there are in fact quality Asian American actors aplenty, and a conscious effort could have been made to fill more roles with them -- perhaps not the main ensemble, but the guest roles and bit parts. And I think doing so would give a bit more credibility to the basic premise that Chinese culture and language were one of the few to survive Earth-that-Was.

However -- it is possible that the great "mixing" or triumph of Chinese civilization happened on Earth-that-Was well before things went belly-up there. Chinese is clearly meant to be a lingua franca. Arguably, China sent its own people off to some other galaxy/solar system, and the mostly-white folks who ended up in the Firefly 'verse brought Chinese writing and speech with them because it was a useful way to communicate in large mixed groups -- just as French once was in the diplomatic world, and just as English is now.

The other thought that occurred to me is that while it might make logical sense to cast more Asians in Alliance/Blue Sky roles, or as Companions -- as these are the three institutions most clearly holding legitimate "civilized" status ... it wouldn't play well at all -- very bad taste to perpetuate the stereotypes of Asian men as ruthless, inscrutable, power-hungry and Asian women as submissive or seductive.

Anyway, it's a very interesting question, and I'm glad you raised it.

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Thursday, October 6, 2005 8:19 AM

BELASERA

Well, you could always cast Asian women in the blue sun/ alliance roles.
And was that a male companion I saw in the movie? The one with the lack of shirt, yum.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 6:49 AM

SONG

Quote:
Originally posted by jebusyoon:
... for a world that's melted the asian and western culture so well, why aren't there more asians?

Here's a blog-review that makes your point, emphatically. A good read.

http://www.hyphenmagazine.com/blog/archives/2005/10/inscrutability.htm
l

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Monday, October 10, 2005 8:14 AM

hahaha, that's what i was trying to say, but im a math graduate in davis, and can't use english as well as that lovely lady placed it. thanks claire

she also brought up a good point on how black people were portrayed as savage killers, (the assasin, bounty hunter and possibly sheperd book)

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Monday, October 10, 2005 3:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jebusyoon:
she also brought up a good point on how black people were portrayed as savage killers, (the assasin, bounty hunter and possibly sheperd book)

I definitely disagree with that... The two prominent black people in Firefly are Shepherd Book and Zoe. One comes off almost all the time as an extremely compassionate and forgiving man--perhaps with a past he's trying to make up for, but compassionate nonetheless. The other comes off as a fierce warrior in love with a nutty pilot.

Jubal Early and the Operative were side characters, and villians. But it could just as easily be said that all Russians, or all short guys with Cockney accents, are portrayed as bad guys.

On another note... I still stand by my original statement. I honestly don't think it's that big a deal. Sure, I'd like there to be more Asians (and South Asians, in particular) in film and TV, but that doesn't get me all worked up whenever I see a cast without any Asians in it. Even when it comes to Firefly. KF

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BOOK: Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps...

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Friday, October 14, 2005 9:49 AM

i guess what im really angry is at the lack of response. i mean, the minorities are right, there is a new kind of rasism, and it's not your blatent, "you're different skin color" rasisim. it's this passive, who cares rasisim. i don't know if i said that correctly, but that's what peeved me off. not that joss didnt' employ asians, but just the blase response he had when he didn't have any. like, "oh, we dont' have asians? oh well." and every other fan trying to defend him by altering the universe so it could fit a non-asian human society. so my anger is toward not the people, but their blindness, their ignorance, and a sense, my ignorance as well. i've ignored this problem, saying to myself, all these different races should chill, but i think this outrage is needed to open our eyes. i hope that made sense...

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Friday, October 14, 2005 12:40 PM

INKA

I must admit that my delight at the use of Chinese in Firefly was tempered a bit by the fact that this element didn't seem to go very deeply into the world. You do see some Asian faces in the background (the village dance scene in "Safe" comes to mind), and I really like that, but generally, I agree with the original poster of this thread, that it doesn't make sense that a world with so much Asian influence on the surface would have so few Asian people in it.

More importantly, I think it was a missed opportunity on the part of the show's makers. The idea that cultures have mingled greatly is a cool one, and is somewhat supported by the upper classes having names that could be Chinese (Tam, Wing, etc. There are actually a couple of Dr. Tams here in Honolulu) but the faces don't bear that out--except Summer Glau's. I'd be surprised if I learned that she isn't of part-Asian descent. It would have been very cool if one of her parents had been played by an Asian actor, or both of them by people who are of some combined ancestry.

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Friday, October 14, 2005 1:12 PM

REAVERINA1985RIVIERA

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

Well, if you just look at how many Mesopotamians are running around today... Maybe that's where all of the Asians have gone in the ff universe - the way of the Mesopotamians...

Off topic, but:
Babelonians would be a better example.

A small history lesson: The British invaded Mesoptoamia in the early 20th century, then renamed it.

Know what it's new name is?

IRAQ!

Yep, Mesopotamians are still alive and kicking (and punching and shooting and blowing s**t up).

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Friday, October 14, 2005 2:20 PM

INKA

HAR. I was hoping someone would make that point about (as the Daily Show puts it) Mess O' Potamia.

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Friday, October 14, 2005 2:20 PM

SIGGGY

Do many Asians like Serenity? I thought they would like to go to hear some of the cussin? Its more than most Western films have in them.

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Friday, October 14, 2005 2:47 PM

im an asian and i love it. but i don't love the fact that it doesn't employ them readily on the screen... sorry that was a bit corny

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Friday, October 14, 2005 4:33 PM

SONG

Quote:
Originally posted by jebusyoon:
... there is a new kind of rasism, and it's not your blatent, "you're different skin color" rasisim. it's this passive, who cares rasisim. ... so my anger is toward not the people, but their blindness, their ignorance, and a sense, my ignorance as well. i've ignored this problem, saying to myself, all these different races should chill, but i think this outrage is needed to open our eyes. i hope that made sense...

It makes perfect sense to me.

I think you are speaking of white privilege, which permits those in the majority group to remain sheltered in naivety and the very best of intentions, and to respond with pained defensiveness to any accusations of prejudice or bias.

And I think you show tremendous insight as well by recognizing that you have internalized that same "white privilege" response, the dismissive shrug when racism is demonstrated. In a culture that promotes whites at the expense of non-whites, real and concrete privileges accrue to the non-whites who can appear or act the most white.

The same dynamic is at work when very nice men (and many women) just "don't get" why women are angry about sexist behavior. They are privileged by the system of discrimination, so privileged that they can afford even to be unaware that there IS a system. I especially like the distinction you make between being angry at such people (a bad idea) and being angry at their blindness and ignorance. How you convince them to grow beyond it is a question I cannot answer, sadly.

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Saturday, October 15, 2005 8:31 AM

No, ur, we keep saying Asians... It's really just Chinese. I don't hear any Tagalog, Japanese, Hindi, Korean, Malay, etc.... Asians cover quite a bit of ground...

Understandably, for most people in the world. There isn't a whole lot of difference in the world between the more prominent facial and cultural chracterists between Japanese, Malays, Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, etc. To most folks, these people all look alike and the cultural practices equally foreign. But there is no excuse in the fact that we should use Chinese actors if we are really refering to a Universe where Chinese culture and language and practices became a greater part of the dominant forces in play.

Yes, Daniel Kim is a really good actor, but he is a ethinically Korean and we shouldn't just use any old "Asian" actor who's available. He doesn't look remotely Chinese.

Really!? Asians and Orientals are best left to describing things that are common to the entire region or if you *really* mean to talk about the entire set of people, or culture, or food. But in general practice, there aren't a lot of things that you are applying to the entire set of Asian cultures. It is such a huge and diverse area and the people are so different. There might be similarities between the Malays, the southern part of China, and Vietnam for instance. But that's no where close to the culture practiced in various different parts of India, Pakistan, or the Philippines... Stand up and be proud, don't get
mixed in and allow yourself to be blended into a big bunch of "Asians" just because people haven't learned to see the differences.

"Are you Asian?"

"No, I most certainly *am not* just Asian! I am Japanese!!!"

Anyways, the show really slaughters the Mandarin and Cantonese (what bits of Cantonese that it pretends to be) that are spoken in there. I mean, nobody is as critical as the French in their particuliarity with their own national language, but the spoken Chinese is really really horrific. To the point of wondering if they are speaking Chinese or not. Without the subtitles and the online guides, most of the chopped up spoken Chinese phrases are not understandable.

Quote:
Originally posted by sigggy:
Do many Asians like Serenity? I thought they would like to go to hear some of the cussin? Its more than most Western films have in them.

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Saturday, October 15, 2005 8:37 AM

hmm... yeah, I misspoke. But, to be exact, you are talking more of a geographical lesson rather than a historical one. But back on point, I was, of course, refering to ancient Mesopotamia, the Sumerian culture and people to place it within more historical context.

And to be blunt, the people that are in Iraq right now weren't anything close to the original Mesopotamians in the area. These were all of the rejects and bandits from up north that came in and slaughtered the Romans after they took over.

Quote:
Originally posted by ReaverInA1985Riviera:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

Well, if you just look at how many Mesopotamians are running around today... Maybe that's where all of the Asians have gone in the ff universe - the way of the Mesopotamians...

Off topic, but:
Babelonians would be a better example.

A small history lesson: The British invaded Mesoptoamia in the early 20th century, then renamed it.

Know what it's new name is?

IRAQ!

Yep, Mesopotamians are still alive and kicking (and punching and shooting and blowing s**t up).

---------------------------------------------
The real-life box droppin', man-ape gone wrong thing, now without the pesky falling boxes

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:44 AM

yes, you are correct, and joss did hire daniel dae as a korean in his roll on angel, and if he did trully want to hire correct asians in his cast, it would be chinese. but the fact that he has no asians, whatsoever, is a bit odd. i was trying to name off some asians that he could use, but i guess i'm fighting a battle that is geared toward the wrong side. i guess if he would have hired a japanese person for a roll on serenity, i would be complaining that he wasn't chinese. i guess that's the way the world operates, people picking on the ones that stand out.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:36 PM

Well, that's the thing... If you are doing a show portraying Russian history and they go off and hired a bunch of Irish or Nordic guys/gals to do the show... Well, yeah, they are all white people, what the heck is the differences whether you get a bunch of Germans to play the Jewish people in a show about Jews being persecuted - they are all white people.

But it's just not the same.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:59 PM

DREAMTROVE

Good question, maybe there's a lack of talented chinese actors in Joss' audition pool. If that's the case, there's a good in for someone.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:55 PM

Yeah, I'm just busting an artery over absolutely nothing here. I mean, seriously, how many starving Chinese actors there are altogether? Do they deserve support as artists go? Yeah... well, at least the talented ones go anyways...

The real problem that I continue to see is that people keep thinking that all of these "Asian" folks all look alike. I think not, each distinct ethnic group have their very own features and physical characteristics to being with - that's just looks and outward behavior. There are very deep cultural differences that just make them completely different and distinct people.

There's enough of a learned and cultural difference that they literally see different things when looking at the same scenery, pictures, imageries - MRI and PETscan confirmed!

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 2:06 PM

ALBATROSS

Thanks for bring this up! Although I love the fact that Joss took the idea that Chinese culture will be one of the two primary influences in this Universe, I do have a couple of small pet peeves. I take more issue with whomever is the cultural consultant on this show though since that person should know better. There's a scene with Inara doing calligraphy and she's holding the brush all wrong. Any child would know how to hold a callgraphy brush if they were taugh calligraphy. Second peeve is the vast amount of cheep looking Chinatown tourist quality clothing in garish colors that they put on the extras.

Okay, end of rant...

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 7:57 AM

ICEHQS

Hey there, i'm new to the FF verse, however i come from an RPG background pnp as well as electronically. As to the subject of hiring chinese actors that has an inkling of chinese, i'd say why not hire Russell Wong or his brother Michael Wong (search these names on any search engines and you'll find useful info on the actors).

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Monday, October 24, 2005 3:38 PM